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Messages - blykins

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FE Technical Forum / Re: Roller cam and lifters for a 410-tow engine?
« on: December 06, 2022, 05:55:58 PM »
Brent, when I contacted you about a roller for my 445 towing engine, you said you couldn't come up with a good profile for one in a roller. Are you suggesting that you could for a 410, but not a 445? ???

I'm slightly confused.

I'm not suggesting anything, and I didn't even crack a lobe catalog open for him, because that's not the question he asked.  He essentially asked if a roller cam was worth it or if he should risk a flat tappet.  I tried to give him a quick pros/cons and didn't really look at anything else.  He didn't list anything about his build at all, so I wouldn't be able to come up with an idea on a grind anyway.

Happy Holidays, Doug.

Vendor Classifieds / Anyone have need for a fresh 1030cfm 3-barrel?
« on: December 04, 2022, 04:39:21 PM »
I've had one sitting on the shelf since my 352 was built.  Never been ran.   All freshly colored by Drew, drilled/tapped for screw in bleeds, etc.  I'll take $500 for it or a reasonable/fair offer.

FE Technical Forum / Re: Roller cam and lifters for a 410-tow engine?
« on: December 04, 2022, 01:19:18 PM »
It comes down to expense.   A hydraulic roller cam and lifter setup will cost you $1100-1200 in addition to a steel distributor gear if you don't have one.  A flat tappet setup is much less expensive. 

I personally wouldn't sweat a flat tappet break-in, but on a roller cam setup, you just turn the key and worry about breaking in the engine, not necessarily the cam.

Jim, that's certainly an option, as long as the gasket/seal is tight.  It doesn't take much to compromise the seal, sometimes I have to silicone around intake bolts, etc. 

There are some pictures floating around of a bunch of Tunnel Port crate engines at Holman Moody's shop and all of them have chrome PBF valve covers with the big cookie cutter oil caps.  So, I think I'll try one of the cookie cutter caps or a cap like you specified first and see where that puts me.  If it doesn't work, I'll probably hit Tindle up for some MT covers.

Never been a big fan of the pentroofs, but it's an option.  Another option is a pair of M/T covers with no holes, but they're getting harder and harder to find in good condition.

They will be twist caps.  That makes it hard because the hole isn't exactly a hole, it's a keyed hole.....harder to cover and seal. 

This is on my Tunnel Port and I'm trying to keep it looking period correct.

I'm wondering how hard it is to seal up the breather holes without welding or damaging the chrome.

FE Technical Forum / Re: Another one bites the dust. Cam lobe
« on: November 26, 2022, 03:20:38 PM »
Greg, I certainly wouldn't buy a whole new set of springs for a cam break-in.  You'd have to find a set that worked with the retainers and locators you have, or otherwise you're looking at changing those out too.  Check your spring loads without the inners, that's the easiest way. 

FE Technical Forum / Re: Another one bites the dust. Cam lobe
« on: November 26, 2022, 12:18:09 PM »
I'm not saying that it's never the cam or lifter manufacturer's fault, but I will tell you, a cylinder head that comes with a 145/350 lb valve spring package for a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft is not configured correctly.   I have ran hydraulic roller camshafts with 150/350 lbs of spring load. 

Guys that don't know any better will assemble the engine and throw a new cam/lifter set in the engine without looking at valve spring loads.  It's a recipe for disaster.  There's not a street hydraulic flat tappet camshaft out there that needs 145 lbs of seat pressure. 

It's just not the 1960's anymore.  Camshafts back then required way less spring load because they were just lazy old cams.  Sixty years of technology improvements have netted camshafts that are more aggressive.   There's just a different set of rules now. 

Vendor Classifieds / Re: NIB Bullet Solid Cam & Other Items For Sale
« on: November 25, 2022, 03:16:27 PM »
Valves are gone, but cam is still here.   Make a fair offer and it's yours.   Don't be intimidated by the 106 LSA.  The 106 doesn't make it a "circle track" cam, or anything of the like, but the LSA is just a component of how much overlap the camshaft will have.   This would make a very nice camshaft for a lot of different applications.  It was ordered for a standard stroke 427 with Shelby heads and a Tunnel Wedge, but it would work with many combinations. 

FE Technical Forum / Re: Will be offering a new product for FE's...
« on: November 24, 2022, 12:53:28 PM »
No A-B tests. 

FE Technical Forum / Re: Another one bites the dust. Cam lobe
« on: November 24, 2022, 06:40:29 AM »
I will tell you that most FE combinations will lose horsepower with a single pattern camshaft, so a 236/236° at .050" cam is already not in your favor.
 The ProMaxx heads show about a 70% intake/exhaust flow ratio, so in actuality, you will need something like an 8-10 degree split.  The LSA is based on how much overlap an engine needs.  A 400 inch engine with a modern cylinder head will not want a 108 LSA, *especially* with the advertised durations that come with that camshaft that you have.  I'd be surprised if you didn't need a 111-112-113 LSA to make efficient horsepower. 

Your cam has 80° of overlap, which is about 15-20 degrees more than what you need, depending on what your goals are.   Your DCR is about a half point low as well with that camshaft.   It would sound good and that's about it.  Engine combinations need a specific amount of overlap to function, depending on the applications and goals.  If you don't have enough overlap, then your engine is not efficient.  If you have too much overlap, then you're pushing power out the exhaust pipe and your engine is not efficient. 

There are no magic rules that spit out LSA's.  Vizard himself will tell you that his rule only works on SBC's and I'm skeptical that it even works on Chebbys. 

I don't necessarily think you need to switch to a roller camshaft, because that would require changing pushrods, distributor gears, cam, lifters, etc., etc.  I'll wait to hear what the spring loads are before I give further advice. 

FE Technical Forum / Re: Another one bites the dust. Cam lobe
« on: November 24, 2022, 06:36:08 AM »
Not trying to be argumentative here, but why do you think it's necessarily Comp Cams' fault?   All of the cores that are used come from about 2 core houses. 

Most of the time, when I see someone smoke a cam, it was because of one of these things:

1.  Didn't check that lifters rotated freely in bores before putting intake on.
2.  Too much spring pressure. 
3.  Not the correct oil. 
4.  Cranked it too long before the engine fired.

I hear, "I never had trouble breaking in cams until recently" quite frequently from some of the "older generation".  It's because they were used to breaking cams in with factory valve spring loads.  Today, if you buy a new set of cylinder heads, the spring loads are WAY over what should be used for a flat tappet camshaft.

FWIW, to this day (knock on my head), I have yet to have camshaft issues.  I don't do a ton of flat tappet builds, but I do use them. 

When I set up the heads, the majority of the time, I will set the seat loads up below 100 lbs seat and the open loads way under 300.  If I have to pull the inner springs out to do that, then I do.  If I have to completely swap to another valve spring, then I'll do that too. 

Gotta have *quality* engine break-in oil, such as Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, etc.  If you use a regular motor oil, even with some kind of additive, chances are it won't be enough. 

To answer your other question, the first thing I'd do is check the filter.  If there's not much metal in it, then I would drop the pan and check a couple of bearings.  If everything looks good, then I would make a decision on what you want to do with the new cam, then flush the engine a time or two with fresh oil before starting. 

Comp Cams seems to get the blame when cams go flat, but it's because they are the largest camshaft supplier that I know of.  Obviously, when you look at a statistical bell curve, their failures will be higher just from the sheer numbers of cams they put out, but I would venture to say that most of the time, it's the builder's fault.   There are mishaps that can be attributed to the supplier (possibly a bad heat treat, etc.) but generally it's not the cam grinder's fault. 


I don't use ProMaxx heads, but I went to their website and looked for spring loads.  If you bought their heads setup for a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft, they are advertising 145 lbs seat load.  If you didn't pull the inner springs out or change springs for break-in, that's why the cam lobe went flat.  They're showing 145 lbs seat and 350 lbs open at .600".  Too much spring load for a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft, especially for break-in.

FE Technical Forum / Re: Will be offering a new product for FE's...
« on: November 24, 2022, 06:23:51 AM »

Since flat plane cranks can't use the same firing order as a cross plane crank, that led me to having to order a custom camshaft for the engine.  I'm not talking about a regular custom grind, I'm talking about a *custom* camshaft.  There are a couple of firing orders that I could use, but the one that made most sense to me is the one that Ferrari I ordered it with that firing order.

Onward and upward...

Sounds like a fun R&D project.  Good luck with it.
Will you be running 180* headers ?

1-8-3-6-4-5-2-7   ?

Yes, 18364527.   Some of the other firing orders seemed like they smacked the crank in the same spot, so I steered away from them. 

FE Technical Forum / Re: Will be offering a new product for FE's...
« on: November 19, 2022, 06:50:41 PM »
I had my block drilled for oiling to the lifters and I have a little bleed off MeanGene. When I’m hot like been driving for let’s say ten miles my oil pressure in gear at 850 or so is less tan 20 so until I get a converter (cams a little bigger than the 3000 stall I have) I rest my foot on the gas to keep it at 1000 and then I have like 23-25.
But I agree you probably wouldn’t have to drill if you had the tunnel.
Also going with the whole parasitic draw stuff you could use the roller cam bearings
Considering they will also be bathed in oil.
Should also help them last longer, I think in general cam lifters in an FE are a weak link.
Plus if the tunnel is worth 3 percent maybe with the roller bearings might bring it up a percent or 2.
Brent whatever happened to those bronze bushing I saw a video you had. Why are you going to regular bearings.

Joe, I spoke about why I changed to regular bearings in my first post up above. 

Roller cam bearings don't offer any performance gains, unfortunately, and with the larger babbitt bearings that are available these days, I think most guys are reverting back to a standard style cam bearing.  I use the babbitt 60mm bearings in some of my BBF pulling engines.

Gene, I'm not sure if the tunnel would help a roller lifter survive or not.  They do get splash from the rotating assembly in a regular scenario, but a pressure fed bearing is always going to be the best choice.  Maybe the consistent/constant bath in oil would help some. 

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