Hi Mike,

Yes, I actually had originally put the breathers on....  then a few years ago I installed a PCV valve for a while.  Not seeing any difference in the leak, I went back  to the breathers because I thought they would let more pressure out.

Now that I am almost 100% sure this last oil leak is a pressure issue and not a bad seal- I reinstalled the PCV valve set up, but it still builds too much pressure at cruise and above.

My last ditch effort before I just learn to live with the leak was to purchase the M/E Wagner Dual Flow adjustable/tunable PCV valve.  This apparently allows you to adjust the PCV valve for idle under one circuit- and then adjust a separate circuit for "Cruise" when the crank case pressures are higher.  Read about it in Hotrod magazine first, and then read up on the product on their website.  Holds promise.  Its on its way in the mail, and after tuning it, I will go for a drive and report back.

Thanks....  All leaks have been found and corrected except for a small one from between the scatter shield and the back of the block.  Its small but irksome.

Let you all know what I find when I pull the transmission.

 

OK Car is back up on the lift.....

After a bit of investigation, this is what I am seeing.  There are drips of oil coming off of the bellhousing.  I am getting a strong sense that any oil leak on this engine ends up on the bellhousing no matter where it originates.

1st off, Both valve cover gaskets are clean and dry.  No longer an oil leak coming from the passenger side valve cover gasket.

2nd off, the entire oil pan is still sealed well.  As a matter of fact, even the back of the scatter shield (?  plate between the engine block and the bell housing) is clean....  Hmmmm....

OK so if the back of the scatter shield is not showing any indication of oil "wetness", but there is still drips on the bottom lip of the bellhousing..... how did it get past to end up dripping where it currently is?

3rd off, after scanning around for any sign of oil seepage, I saw a drip or 2 of oil on the dipstick mount against the oil pan and one drop on the oil pan stud right above it (maybe 1\2 above).  Now I am 1000% sure that oill did not come from the oil pan itself, because all the way around the lip of the oil pan was dry and no drips down the sides....  checked all the way around with a paper towel. 

Thought was maybe a leak from the dip stick tube since I removed and cleaned while doing the oil pan.  I managed to get a wrench up there and tightened it another 1 or 2 turns, but its snug because of the thread sealant used (it scres into the oil pan/ not press fit).

Lastly I still have a small oil leak from the distributor area.  I don't think I really ever took care of this issue when it first popped up because the larger oil leak seemed more important.

Possibly the oil leak is not from the back of the block at all (I say this as its not on the scatter shield between the oil pan/Block and the back of the scatter shield).....

Having said that, it is still on the bell housing..... and its getting there from somewhere....

I am going to try and solve the little oil leak at the distributor...  If that doesn't seep anymore and the oil dipstick tube stays dry.......... and I still have the leak, then I will pull the transmission....

Would rather be sure I have to pull it...  But at least I can mark the oil pan and valve covers off of the list of suspects.  Back of the intake manifold seems dry as well (tissue test).  Only oil I can see is the distributor area and those 2 drips on the dipstick tube (for which I already tightened it up so hopefully its a non issue now).

Keeping on-Keep'n on!

Catch a big rattlesnake .....  each night- smack it around a bit to get it nice and pissed off.- dump on the front seat of the truck and close the door....  Problem solved 

Noticed 1 drip under the car while its been in the garage.  The single drip seems to come from between the bell housing and the backing plate.  Doing a little snooping with a flashlight (as I said before, there is almost no room in this engine bay), it looked like the starter was a little shiny and oily.....  Hmmm

 Its definitely not the oil pan anymore, so the oil leak a few months ago seemed to be a few things.

 Since the oil pan is clean and dry all the way around, I started snooping a little further while I had it up on the lift.  The only thing I could see is that the passenger side valve cover gasket seemed wet and "shiny" toward the rear and bottom.  As this is a high as I can go, I would guess that there is some oil that gets out of the valve cover gasket toward the rear...  drips down somehow and gets on the starter, and then possibly runs down the bellhousing- making it look like it comes from inside?

Either way, it was time to replace the valve cover gasket.  You have to take the battery and the battery tray out in order to get to 2 of the bolts holding the valve cover....  starting there- It was a quick removal followed by a 2 hours cleaning session on the head mating surface and valve cover.  I wanted to make sure that its 100% free of any oil residue or anything for that matter which would inhibit the gasket seal.

The valve cover went into the sink for a scrub with soap and water, followed by alcohol rub down...  Until it was completely clean and dry.

Then I tried something new.  I put gasket maker on the cork gasket very thinly, then installed that on the valve cover iself.  Once it was all lined up, I put the valve cover and the gasket I just installed on it face down (clean side of the cork gasket) on a plastic sheet on the garage floor.  Then I put about 40 lbs of weight on the valve cover to ensure a good tight seal when curing. 

Tomorrow, once the gasket maker has dried and the cork gasket is permanently adhered, I will put gasket maker (another thin coating) on the heads mating surface and install the valve cover.  I read online that this is to try and reduce the amount the cork gasket moves around when you try to install it all at once.  It would seem that with RTV on both sides of the cork gasket, when you try to wrench it tight , can squish out of place (possibly).

My thought is that even if this is not true, It cant hurt anything to do it this way.

The valve cover

Hey All,

Just wanted to give a quick update (although oil pan gasket replacement is usually not all that thrilling).  This thing kicked my butt!  Getting the pan out was a combination of lifting up on the engine with the Engine Support Bar, while also lowering the front K member, disconnecting steering, sway bars, motor mounts, some wiring, etc.  Due to the deep sump, the pick up tube was stopping the pan from coming right out.  Took about a day, in the end, it was a combination of lowering the pan just enough to unbolt the pick up tube, the pulling the pick up tube out the side.... then removing the pan.... then going back for the windage tray....  All of this was sort of covered in the first few threads.

Then it was on to cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, straightening the pan rails, straightening the windage tray, and cleaning again!  I went a little bonkers on each step mostly because I did not want to have to ever do this again (on this particular car).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/E6CKNKdzv9parDXx9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6sqUz5yjYyb6p9uy6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YM6rKTiE56PTCCFFA


Then I installed 2 stainless steel -10AN male fittings in the front smaller sump to allow the front sump oil to now drain back to the rear sump.... and 2 more stainless steel -10AN male fittings in the rear sump.  I read a bunch on these fittings as they are designed to go in oil pans for Turbo drain back applications, and the consensus was no Loctite or tephalon tape on the threads inside the oil pan.  They have special 2 part washers that are used- 1 seals the inside of the pan and the other on the outside.  Also because they are steel and not aluminum, you can really wrench them tight.  they will be connected by stainless braided hose with 90 degree female fittings on both ends.  This will create a little downward sloping arch/curve out the side of the pan on each side of braided hose.  (I initially had a straight hose end fittings that went from front to rear sump installed, but it just so happens that the steering rack interfered so I had to temp remove them (leaving the stainess steel pan fittings with rubber caps on them so no debris gets into the clean oil pan.).  I have some of these 90 degree fittings and some additional stainless braided hose on its way.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/u3cbff7xsyQN1LqJ6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tr3h4xasvd1TMA8f6

Lastly we come to the 3/16 steel pan rails.  I thought about this for a day or 2 before I got started.  The thing is with these FE oil pans, they have double rows of little "Fillets" between each bolt hole.  This is there for strengthening the pan rails, but it would also stop a pan rain support from sitting flush.  What I decided in the end was to make custom square washers for each pan bolt hole.  It covers the engine area around each bolt hole up to the fillets.  Around the back, where the pan was leaking (I think), the 2 back pan washers are a funky shape because of the rear pan kickout, but after a little finesse on the milling machine, they perfectly hug the wonky area around each bolt.  On top of that, each flat washer for a Stage8 locking bolt so they will never back out.  These are pretty cool and well worth the $.  There were actually only 3 holes in which I had to  use the orignal stud and nut with a lock washer.  These were above my pans custom side kickouts (like a T pan).  It was impossible to get any tool of size in there with the exception of a small allen key..... and even with that, I could only get about 1/8th of a turn each time.... needless to say that just those 3 took me about 4 hours alone.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehG4mAfXQqz3HXr56


Also worth noting is I wanted to see how much oil I have been putting into this engine.  When I do an oil change, I put in 11 Quarts.  This is for the modified pan as well as the 3qt Accusump in the trunk (which under pressure doent hold exactly 3 quarts, but there is also oil in the lines that run from the trunk to engine.  I wanted to see where 11 quarts of oil sits with the windage tray on.  So after cleaning- but before the alcohol rub down, I put the pan on the counter and started adding quarts of water 1 at a time.  Believe it or not, 11 quarts of oil in this pan comes to about 1/8 of an inch above the oil baffle in the sump.  It doesnt even touch the bottom of the windage tray layed on top without a gasket  (although close).  So when the engine is running and some of this oil gets pushed into the accusump, the oil level is below the gasket seam.  Heck- even if all 11 quarts are in the pan at once, its still below the pan seam.

Here is an interesting tid-bit.  While I am cleaning and recleaning the pan rails, windage tray and block mating surface. I just happen to notice that the Oil drain back holes in the rear man cap are in line with the oil pan mounting holes......

This means when the oil pan/ windage tray/ gasket sandwich is bolted onto the block, the oil drain back holes on the rear main cap drain directly onto the oil pan/windage tray assembly and not drop directly down into the pan.  A thought is that since the engine has a "slight" tilt rearward when bolted in place on the engine mounts, the oil drain back is probably pouring oil directly onto a "Shelf" made of the gaskets, windage tray and oil pan rail.  I could definitely modify the gaskets and windage tray ---but not the oil pan itself just given where the oil pan bolt holes are in relation.

Is this just a bad pan design?  OR a bad FE (Side Oiler) engine block design?  LOL  It does appear that other FE blocks, for example 390's, have the oil drain back in the rear main cap, but its shifted closer to the front and thus does not seem to be back as far as the side oiler drain back holes.....

This is not a photo of my actual block, but shows how the drain back holes site a little further back on the  427 Side Oiler block than say for instance a 390.   The second photo is something like a 390 (ignore the red arrow as it was in the stock image I found online)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/93nZvj11M6Lp8mhG7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/mNkHUEv1BeBHjXt1A

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the difference is in torque specs for the oil pan on an FE?  I think the original torque specs were 12 to 15 ft/lbs, but I am assuming that it was for an iron block.  What should oil pan bolts be torqued to in an aluminum block?

If I am not mistaken, the oil pan bolts on the FE are:   5/16 - 18  X 3/4".