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Messages - My427stang

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1
They are a stout set of heads, fast intake port, raised exhaust port, very nice single plane intake.  Allowed for very little cam too and should be very easy to drive

2
FE Technical Forum / Re: Valve seals
« on: April 16, 2024, 01:24:17 PM »
There are positively located seals that fit an FE guide, but they are pretty big and depend on valve spring choice and retainer to guide clearance.  US Seal sells by dimension, but here is an example from another source. 

https://alexsparts.com/3-8-x-625-660-viton-valve-seals-flex-body-type-fe-ford-universal-vss-407-set-of-sixteen/

I agree though, good guides first, then if doing a valve job anyway, put real guides in (consider a 11/32 valve), cut the locator pad off and run a real locator and a nice Viton .531 seal.

If the heads are nice, you could just pull them down and cut the existing guide, but sometimes you will have retainer to seal clearance

As far as which brand of seal, I really like Manley Viton, Brent turned me on to them many years ago.  They push on easier, hold tight and last well.  It's all I really use now

3
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Motorville Wholesale?
« on: April 12, 2024, 08:51:15 PM »
I do, good company

4
Any play in the pinion? Does the yoke have cap locating tabs or need u-joint clips?

If the only thing changed is the center section, I'd be hard pressed to blame the driveshaft


5
FE Technical Forum / Re: Need to quiet down our 484 FE...
« on: April 09, 2024, 12:28:56 PM »
You may be able to fit a small band clamp on the joints, the can be effective.

Also, ceramic coating can change the sound, and in theory build a little on the pipe, also not sure I'd call it a leak fix

Finally, the most quiet performance mufflers I have found are Jones Full Boar.  I run them on my 461 F100, they bark at full throttle but very quiet when driving easy, even with a full 3 inch exhaust

6
FE Technical Forum / Re: 69 F250 Highboy 460 Engine Swap from FE
« on: April 02, 2024, 08:58:53 AM »
Contact landlproducts.com

They make a swap kit, it's not cheap at 2100 dollars, but comes with a lot of good stuff for a bolt in.

I used one many years ago on a 73, not a bump but it worked great


8
This was a fun one, admittedly a lot of work fixing some odd things from a prior Cleveland specialist, but in the end a lot of fun and turned out very happy and healthy.  We made a number of runs, all hitting 7K and was happy all morning.  Pump gas and not a ton of overlap will make it very happy in a street Mustang with a Tremec

Performance Summary:
      Cubic Inches:  410            Dyno brand: Stuska
      Power Adder:  N/A             Where dyno'd:  Dale Meers Racing, Buffalo, KY
      Peak Horsepower:  582 @ 6200
      Peak Torque:  548 @ 4800


Engine Specifications:
   Block brand, material, finished bore size, other notes: 72 4 bolt main iron 351C, 4.040 bore, CnC squared, aligned, torque plate honed
     
   Crankshaft brand, cast or forged, stroke, journal size: SCAT forged steel, internal balance, 4.00 stroke
     
   Connecting Rods brand, material, center to center distance, end sizes, bolts:  SCAT H beam 6.00

   Piston brand, material (caster, hypereutectic or forged), dish/dome volume, static CR: DSS pistons, -18cc dish, 10.0:1

   Main Bearings, Rod Bearings, Cam Bearings brand and size:  SYandard Clevite rod and main bearings, Durabond cam bearings

   Piston rings brand, size, other notes: Total Seal 1.2mm stainless top, 1.2mm #2, 3.0mm standard tension oil ring

   Oil Pump, pickup, and drive:  Melling M-84AHV, ARP drive, Milodon pickup

   Oil pan, windage tray, oil filter adapter:  Milodon T-pan

   Camshaft brand, type (hyd/solid, flat tappet or roller), lift and duration (adv and @.050"):  Custom Bullock's Hydraulic Roller, 235 @ .050, 114 LSA on 107
   
   Lifters brand, type:  Morel standard travel hydraulic roller

   Timing chain and timing cover: Cloyes 9 position, factory timing cover

   Cylinder heads brand, material, port and chamber information:  SVO NASCAR B351, ported 225  cc intake, ported exhaust

   Valve springs: Comp 20655 Beehive
 
   Rocker arm brand, type (adjustable or non-adj), material, ratio:  Jesel 1.75 ratio, pinned

   Rocker shafts and stands, brand, material:  N/A
   Pushrods brand, type, length:  factory

   Valve covers, brand, type:   Unknown fabricated

   Distributor brand, advance curve information:  MSD large cap, 34 degrees total

   Harmonic balancer brand:  Unknown aftermarket

   Water pump brand, type (mechanical or electric):   Unknown stock replacement,  electric powered on dyno

   Intake manifold brand, material, porting information:  Roush SVO   single plane

   Carburetor(s) brand, type:  Dyno'd with 950 QFT and super sucker - 582 HP, customer 830 and no spacer - 572 HP

   Exhaust manifolds or headers brand, type:  Dyno headers

9
FE Technical Forum / Re: Quench
« on: March 31, 2024, 12:23:01 PM »
That could as easily be a poorly machined hole, the wrong bearing, or a cam bearing driven in too far, bad balance job, or just a weak block pushed too far, I don't buy it one bit as flex in the deck.

Build to 60s standards, you get 60s performance, but today you spend 2024 money to pay for it...very bad advice for customer wallets

One last comment on edit - we don't complain they aren't square, we fix them.  Is there any reason in your mind we shouldn't?

10
FE Technical Forum / Re: Quench
« on: March 31, 2024, 10:38:26 AM »
As far as the quench discussion, glad to see no attempt to make it too tight.  I think for most .040-.050 is plenty for the squish benefit, and I regularly run them proud with a 8554 and some even taller if we are trying to keep intake dimensions on the rare stuff.  Even comparing .045 or so to .036 I'd expect no gain and only added risk.

In terms of the machining, geez Howie, Brent was right, said Ford was all over the place, and then you come back with Ford couldn't hold a spec with their tech at the time, that is EXACTLY the point.   Who cares what the spec is if the machine can't hold it anyway?  Brent didn't say that the machinists were evil or FOMOCO was playing a trick on us.  I'll add that valve centerline, bore centers, cam bore dimensions are all over the place too once you start measuring.

Additionally, no doubt things flex with heat cycles, I am not sure what you mean by massive flexing, I don't agree with that, an FE is pretty forgiving on head gaskets even fewer head bolts than modern engines.  Although anything can move, they don't change .026 from end to end and grow .010 over deck height.  That's a crank centerline or deck machining issue that causes that much variance, and the numbers can tell you which it was.

Square deck a block or two, you'll see things, square deck 20, you can really see the trends.


11
FE Technical Forum / Re: Quench
« on: March 30, 2024, 06:47:10 PM »
Ford had trouble machining a block within .020".
BS

Well, I've seen quite a few and have no reason to exaggerate.  I've seen factory blocks and aftermarket blocks that were off .020" (and worse) from end to end on one deck. 

Matter of fact, Ross posted on one 428 block the other day that had a high deck height of 10.183" and a low deck height of 10.155".

So sorry, yes I was wrong.......it was more like they couldn't machine a block within .028". 

Nothing like having 10.5:1 compression on one end of the engine and 9.9 on the other........ROFL
Still BS.

The only way you'd know before assembly is to accurately measure with a BHJ fixture or scope it on a CnC.  Here is one block I am doing now,  left and right from a CnC scope referenced off crank centerline. 

Hard to call it BS, it's a date coded original standard bore CJ too, had Ford std bearings in it, so not some leftover late industrial run.  Of course some twist could be from a hard life, but not that amount of difference on a front to back run.  This is the kind of stuff we commonly see.  I can dig up a few others

12
Agree with all your points Ross but one sticks out to me. Sticky lifter bores. Having done long ago a number of in-car cam swaps, we noticed that the removed lifters had deposits on the lower (cam side) ends. Taking out the lifters showed similar crud inside the bores, hard to remove even with determined cleaning. We noted that some of the new lifters had trouble spinning in the bores. We went back in with lacquer thinner, acetone and even gasoline until the lifters spun easily.

Yes, if they can't spin, the lobes will go flat in a hurry.

Amen, and so easy to diagnose, if they don't slide in nicely, stop LOL

13
He covered that he also went through Rockwell test on failed lobes and lifters he covered cam cores where they come from. I wouldn't argue with anyone on this site I am a mechanic not engine builder or machinist. I will say it's the closest to an answer I've seen for DIY mass KIT failures. The crown is so off center their is no way for the lifter to spin in my opinion.

I appreciate you sharing.  My issue with his evaluation is that the crown is really only one area that affects rotation to allow burnishing of the cam and lifter contact points.  The cam lobe is offset and has taper, which really is driving  dynamic force for spinning, and although some crown may help that, I can't swallow that crown differences are the cause of what people report.

What I have seen in a wide variety of failures that have occurred with  customers that went on their own, no particular order

1 - Poor prelube with the drippy red stuff or equiv
2 - Excessive turning without oil pressure
3 - Binding anywhere from lifter bore through valve guide
4 - Lifters sticking in bores at assembly
5 - Failure to prelube an engine, or prelubing with starter
6 - Spring pressures not checked or incorrect
7 - Bad start practices - timing off, carb not ready resulting in excessive crank, or immediate shut down after start
8 - Wrong oil
9 - Not following break in procedures

Now I can't argue with the guy finding lifter differences, in fact I applaud him for his time an research, but I haven't seen a single engine that didn't break in nicely and last a long time if each of the things above were addressed, and the ones that came in almost always had one or multiple issues above, so it's hard for me to blame the lifter.

That being said, having good quality parts is hard to argue with.

14
I second the motion from the gentleman from KY.

Lots of build failures that blame cam and lifters when they are the effect you see, not the cause


15
FE Technical Forum / Re: piston skirt clearance
« on: March 19, 2024, 11:17:07 AM »
Also, no on knurling.  However 1980s and 1990s me did it on old cast pistons, I think it would go too far and then localize wear on the high spot anyway, which is no benefit for the clearance or ring seal as it wears in.  Keep in mind, you are talking a difference at less than a human hair from where you wish to  be

It is a minimum as said before, and it will truly do no harm.  Measure each piston, if there is one bigger, use it, and be sure you are measuring with the torque plate on

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