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Messages - falcongeorge

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FE Technical Forum / Re: Guess the horsepower on a little pepped-up 390....
« on: November 27, 2018, 03:01:00 PM »
Surprised by the 114 in @107. Why such a wide lsa, are you trying to keep the vacuum in powerbrake territory?

FE Engine Dyno Results / Re: 428 CJ
« on: November 10, 2018, 01:44:12 PM »
Speedtalk was an awesome place back then, with a LOT of very knowedgable guys way above my pay grade, but man, there was some MAJOR  league dick waving! ;D I sat through that thread that started the whole LSA/LDA/overlap rumpus in real time, IIRC it went to twenty some odd pages. ;D
The point is, if you have either 1) duration LSA and ICL, or 2) duration, cam advance and overlap, and you have them at the same check height, you can calculate the valve events of any two camshafts. Neither one is "superior" or "more correct", they are just two different methods of arriving at the same numbers, IO,IC,EO,EC. There was a HUUUUGE argument over this on Speedtalk around 2001 or 2002, it was actually pretty funny. I just sat it out, I think I might have made one post on the entire thread.

FE Engine Dyno Results / Re: 428 CJ
« on: November 10, 2018, 12:57:19 PM »
To me, LSA is just a number used to order the cam grind, but Werby is still 100% right, less overlap gives up power.

To me, on a relatively stock FE, I'd be adding some split to whatever cam put me where I wanted to be, and use LSA to control overlap as required.   Although I use both single pattern and dual pattern cams, a CJ almost always likes a bit more exhaust

I am running into the overlap choice decision on a 461 CJ right now, I have lots of room on the build, except for a single thing, power brakes.  It is forcing me to go wider than I would normally prefer, but it's a very rare car and adding vacuum pumps or cans to the car is not an option.

I forgot what Brent used, but it was likely a very sharp choice.
The whole spurious argument that got started on Speedtalk over whether valve events should be discussed in terms of overlap or duration/LSA is arguing over semantics, the numbers come out the same., I have zero interest in debating semantics, I'm interested in numbers.

If we want to argue over the semantics, what we should do is go back to describing cams in terms IO, IC, EO, and EC, like they used to do.  That would sure narrow down the number of guys posting on cam threads in a hurry. ;) ;D

FE Engine Dyno Results / Re: 428CJ
« on: November 10, 2018, 12:36:17 PM »
I think the headers made a BIG difference.  On the 425 HP 428CJ dyno mule in my book, the engine picked up 15 peak HP from the CJ exhaust manifolds to the Hooker Super Comp headers, and 20 peak HP with the FPA tri-Y headers.  The torque gain with headers was even more pronounced, with the Hooker headers beating the 428CJ exhaust manifolds by almost 40 lb-ft peak.  The 428CJ exhaust manifolds are just not that great...
The ring package is probably worth something too, even at 5500 rpm.

FE Engine Dyno Results / Re: 428 CJ
« on: November 10, 2018, 12:12:12 PM »
FWIW, for this guys deal, I like the 276@.006 custom cam that Lykins used in his near stock 428cj a little farther down the page. For an off the shelf cam with a little chop to the idle, the isky 270 would also be a good choice. It's not totally clear, but I think the op is  running an auto with a stock converter, a.c. and pb, I think either 280 is going to give him a fair amount of grief. The stock converter will dictate a low idle speed, the a.c. compressor adds a healthy load on the motor at idle, and the pb  dictate the need for a good stable vacuum signal. All this adds up to a not very pretty picture.

FE Engine Dyno Results / Re: 428 CJ
« on: November 10, 2018, 11:03:46 AM »
OK here goes the Gonkulator shootout.
I have the Gonkulator running today anyway, wringing out 428 Catalinas as featured in the Dec 2018 Hemmings Muscle.

So here goes: T=Torq P=Power peak
69 Mach, Mharvey car, curb=3710 guess w pspb,ac, full tank, modern street rubber, good granny shifting but not destroying the driveline. :'(

1358-101.8 bone stock 428cj 475T 380P 206-220-116
1378-100.7 434as-dynod 455T 355P 204-214-112 this is what the dyno said. Still not so bad!
1365-101.7 434tuned 460T 376P 204-214-112 same engine/cam you have just tuned up!
1346-103.3 comp280 461T 409P 230-230-110
1342-103.6 isky280 462T 418P 232-232-108   

The Isky will sound meaner, and runs half a carlength better. But, its way into end-stand territory so there's that.
Depends if the couple tenths is worth dealing with a new cam/valve train.
Then again, clean bragging rights of "well over 400hp" would be there, which is what many magazines claim a bone stock 428cj makes. 8)
Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying the isky is what he should run, I am saying that IF he insists on going to a 280ish cam the Isky is superior to the comp 280H, and the cams are directly comparable.
I am not recommending EITHER 280 cam for his combo, I think both are too much cam for the rest of his combo. But comparing the comp to the isky, the isky is better in every way, and the narrower LSA will help crutch the inadequate (for a 280 cam) static compression. An Isky 270 mega would probably be a better choice in an off the shelf cam, it was the op that brought up overcamming it, and several guys jumped on the comp 280 bandwagon, my point was that if that's the way he wants to go, there's a far better choice in 280@.006 hydraulics than the comp. FWIW, that ship has already sailed,he mentions on another thread that he has bought the comp. It seems listening to videos on YouTube is the #1 "method" of cam "selection". ;)

FE Technical Forum / Re: Advance Timing
« on: November 09, 2018, 11:29:52 PM »
Depending on the cam, it's probably ground 4 degrees ahead, so if you install it dot to dot, it will probably be 4 degrees advanced already. Comp grinds all their street type cams 4 degrees advanced, I have seen it on the Iskys I have degreed lately as well. As far as whether it's an advantage to advance it another 4,, you don't give enough info, LSA, compression, car weight, gear, converter, ECT.also, if you start moving it around, you need to check piston/valve for sure, you should be anyway. As far as installing it "dot to dot", I kinda figure if it's worth changing cams, it's worth degreeing it, but others may see things differently. I sure as he'll don't see any point in advancing a cam if I don't know where it is in the first place...
I have just put 2 and 2 together, this is the 9.5/1 428 from the other thread. I would consider this combo light on compression for the cam, so I would advance the cam as much as intake valve clearance permits. My concern here is that the op may not know how to accurately check piston/valve clearance. Only he can answer that question for himself, if he is comfortable degreeing the cam accurately and checking piston/valve clearance correctly, I would degree it, and install it at 102. Op, be aware that if you advance the cam this much, and DONT check piston/valve clearance, you stand a fair to middlin' chance of tagging a valve, and ruining your new motor.

FE Engine Dyno Results / Re: 428 CJ
« on: November 09, 2018, 09:58:07 PM »
Comp    280@.006     230@.050  137@.200  .530  110 LSA    106ICL
Isky       280@.006     232@.050  142@.200  ..565  108LSA    104ICL

'Nuff said.

FE Engine Dyno Results / Re: 428 CJ
« on: November 09, 2018, 07:46:15 PM »
It's difficult for me to understand why people always push the comp 280H, when the isky 280 mega has considerably more lift and a 2 degree tighter lsa with pretty much the same seat and .050 duration. I guess maybe an FE with more mid range grunt is too scary to contemplate??  ;D
He who pays the most magazine payola wins...

FE Technical Forum / Re: Goofing off with some CJ heads...
« on: November 09, 2018, 11:33:34 AM »
I honestly don't know much at all about 4500's, kinda outside my realm of interest.

You would like them.

You would like them a lot... 8)
I have used 2 circuit dominators on aggressive street/strip big blocks a few times, the ifr's generally need to be reduced, and if the carb you use doesn't have a primary side power valve, you will want to add one, once you have done that, they work very well indeed..

FYI - the above "wreck" occurred at cruse, about 3200 RPM.  Nothing special going on and BOOM, happy fun time is over. 

Oh yea, shit like that^^ will spoil the "happy fun times" in a hurry... ;D ;)

FE Technical Forum / Re: camshaft
« on: November 07, 2018, 09:50:30 PM »
Stab in the dark. Manley 17400 hyd  222@050 .512 112?

FE Technical Forum / Re: Anybody have experience using-----
« on: November 06, 2018, 04:07:28 PM »
I agree its some about cost.  Personally, I could do fine with a mid 90s AOD and a few upgrade parts because I don't intend to make 1xxx HP ever.  600 would be about the limit my budget could produce and that's plenty.  My home built roller C4 has seen a lot of use up to 500 HP with no issues, so I'm sure I could build up a AOD easily for much less than a GV unit.
Yes, for me, I am starting from ground zero, so the AOD makes sense. I do have a C-4, but it's a '67 core, so you would want to do the input shaft upgrade anyway, just for converter selection, by the time you do that, it makes more sense to start with a  $100 aod core.

FE Technical Forum / Re: Anybody have experience using-----
« on: November 06, 2018, 04:03:32 PM »
George, i forget how much, but I think I bought my first GV for $300. 
Mind you I had nothing to put it in and it sat in my shop for 8 years, but still.....
Man, I think if I found one for $300, I'd buy it " just in case " too! Helluva deal!

I've been down this road. Mine was a screw. It pounds the top of the piston down making all of the ring grooves and landings tight thus mushrooming the piston top just slightly bigger. Mine was a SBC standard bore, but was just enough to crack the wall & introduce coolant into it. Sucks. My screw came out of the bottom of my quadrajet. Lock-tight is your friend.
Dropped an intake valve on a pass at the track once (not enough guide clearance, when I started leaning on the tuneup, it got hot and the valve hung open. Looking at the incrementals, it was on what would have been it's best ever pass when it happened) the debris went through the next four cylinders in the firing order, and the top of the piston in the first hole was so mushroomed, I had to drive it out with a hammer. The motor locked up and stopped turning, it was pretty close to the top of second gear, so it was probably turning about 6500 rpm when it broke, the motor coughed when the valve dropped, then caught for a second, then stopped turning. FWIW, also a dual plane intake.
Two cylinder walls were cracked, and there was water running out of the collectors when it towed into the pits. One head was destroyed (iron heads) the point of the story is yes, a piston can be swelled enough by beating on something like that to crack the bore. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

EDIT: sorry, my memory is not WHAT it used to be, I thought about this, one bore was cracked, the other had a deep gouge on the major thrust side. I had to sleeve two holes, that's what threw off my recollection.

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