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Messages - RobMcQ

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Thanks Howie.  A set of them "Super" valves will be headed up to your "Ice Station Zebra"!
May spring find it's way to you quickly to thaw the ice.
Rob

2
Vendor Classifieds / Stainless Valves for BBM Heads
« on: February 24, 2015, 03:36:48 AM »
Super Duty Race Series Stainless valves: 11/32 2.150"/1.680" - designed specifically for the BBM cylinder heads.

There have been numerous inquiries as to what valves to use with the BBM cylinder heads. During the development of the BBM heads, we flowed quite a few valves from different manufacturers, with variations on valve head shape and size. We eventually settled on the 2.150"/1.680" combo that we are now using.

Later testing showed the 2.150 intake valve to flow as much as a 2.190 intake, (both w/only minor blending), but with better port velocity. The intake bowl was optimized around the 2.150 valve. Testing different exhaust valve head shapes, we selected one that really emphasized mid lift flow, without sacrificing upper lift flow. This special exhaust valve is available in both 1.680" and 1.710".

As neither of these valves were readily available from any manufacturer at a moderate price, we've had to have them built specifically for the BBM heads. It was decided to only offer a premium quality, Race Series valve, instead of the budget priced "E-Bay" level stainless valves, or even the mid range type re-builder valves. We just didn't want to have to deal with all of the quality and durability issues of the cheaper level valves.

Blue Oval Performance Engineering is the only source for these valves. Bulk purchasing has allowed us to keep these premium valves reasonable. A set of 16 valves runs $309/set. (Compare that to the Ferrea F1186P 2.150" valve that runs $200/set of EIGHT). We have 2.250"/1.710" valves for big valve head/big bore applications as well.

In answer to customer questions: Yes, you can get the 2.150/1.710 valve combo for the same price & Yes, these valves can be fit the Edelbrock FE heads.

Valves can be purchased alone in sets, or as a package: Bare BBM heads with Valves for $1630 or as custom built head assemblies with our special valve job starting at $2300 and up, depending on spring & retainer choice, or milling for smaller chamber volumes, etc. (Heads are running 75-76cc's).

Rob McQuarie
Blue Oval Performance
Englewood, CO
303-762-8298
blueovalperf @ gmail.com   

3
FE Technical Forum / Re: Sonic Check
« on: February 24, 2015, 01:57:36 AM »
Yep, that is a bad sonic test, particularly if you're not used to looking at FE block sonic tests. For an FE block, it's not too unusual though. Not a problem with a good offset bore job and some semi-custom pistons, as has been pointed out here.

Offset boring though may not be nearly as simple as it sounds. The machine shop has to have the right equipment. Many shops are still using old style, three finger air lock boring bars like a Rottler F2, or a Kwick-Way, etc. While the machine shop will tell you they can offset bore a block with these, they really can't, no mater what the machinist believes. He can be very careful in setting up the boring bar, but when you release the air lock, those fingers will move the bar "just a little bit". It's just not possible to be highly accurate with these machines, and there is no way for the machinist to verify the accuracy. Nor can they be used to repeat a cut in the same bore, say doing a small initial cut, then a slightly larger one. They are simply not accurate enough to do so.

To accurately bore a block, a CNC controlled boring bar is needed. It doesn't have to be the latest and greatest 5 axis CNC Multi-purpose machine, an older Rottler CNC F5 can do the job. You can check out YouTube for videos of an F5, or a Rottler F69, an RMC V30, a Centroid, etc., to get an idea of the differences. Not only can you set a CNC bar to offset the bore any amount you desire, but you can use it to creep up on a minimum oversize bore as well. For example, wear ridges are typically heavier to one side of the bore. If you bore the cylinder on center, it may easily take .030" or more to clean the cylinder. But, if you offset the bore center towards the worst part of the ridge by say .005", and then do a small .010" first cut, you can evaluate the result, and maybe make a small correction on a next cut. We've often been able to keep a badly worn block at only a .030" oversize , when other shops have said they had to go .040" or .060" in order to clean the bore.  For their old style equipment, they are probably right. 

So when talking to a machine shop about offset boring your block, find out what type of equipment they are using. You don't need to question their abilities, or denigrate their equipment, but simply inform yourself as to their capabilities so that you can make an informed decision.

Rob McQuarie
Blue Oval Performance



4
FE Technical Forum / Re: B B M HEADS
« on: June 22, 2014, 04:57:52 PM »
Actually, 90% of our development and testing was done with the 2.150" / 1.660" and later, the 1.680" valves. The bowls, throats, and chambers were all designed to match to the 2.15/1.68 valves. (The seats will handle the larger 2.250/1.750 size valves, but the bowls, throats, etc. will have to be opened up to complement them.)  We used 45* seat cuts during all of our development work.  The I.D. of the seats were left small on purpose, and will "hang out into the port" with smaller valves - like 2.09"/1.60", requiring some blend work.

Our goal was to have the as cast port/throat match up very closely to the valve seat when cut for the 2.150/1.680 valves, using the special seat cutters we developed for these heads. Due to typical machining variables, the factory didn't get the seat inserts perfectly matched up to the throats, but they are very close and will only need some minor blending, once the valve job has been cut. The throat/valve percentage numbers fall into place, and the ports flow VERY cleanly without turbulence.

Rob McQuarie
Blue Oval Performance Engineering

5
FE Technical Forum / Re: B B M HEADS
« on: June 03, 2014, 11:50:14 PM »
Quick Note: The bare head price IS $1350.00/pr, as was listed in the large post on the FE Forum Classifieds back on April 2nd.
Bud and I were focused on assembled heads during our discussion, and how best to match them to his engine. The bare head
price was just misremembered.
As stated, BBM will only supply bare castings (w/seats, guides & time-serts). Finish work needed on the heads: hone guides, cut valve job, minor blend bottom of valve job cut to bowl, measure chamber cc to determine if it matches customer target (Volume will vary slightly with depth of valve job cut and style of valve head), clean and blueprint assemble.

Rob McQuarie
Blue Oval Performance
(our e-mail as listed here on the Forum is out of date, as we cannot correct it: blueovalperf at gmail.com)

6
FE Technical Forum / Re: Survival heads vs Edelbrock heads modified..
« on: April 05, 2014, 03:57:18 AM »
Barry brings up an important point: BBM is an unknown supplier, without a history of products, good or bad.

We all know that there are teething issues when a new product is brought to market, from MAJOR issues with the FE products from Shelby, Genesis, Dove, and Pond, and even issues with the Edelbrock FE heads and RPM intakes when they came out. Doug knows that his cylinder heads and blocks, being imported, will receive the most intense scrutiny, from some very biased sources. The smallest imperfection, real or perceived, will be pounced upon and immediately held up for ridicule! And that is one reason it has taken so long for BBM to bring it's first products to market. The BBM parts have to have ALL of the bugs worked out BEFORE they are released to market. The parts have to be thoroughly tested and inspected. This has NOT been the case with ANY of the other FE parts suppliers to date. Let's leave Dove out of the discussion, but the long list of problems with early, and even later, castings from Edelbrock, Shelby, Genesis, and Pond could fill pages.

The FE builders that got these early parts knew there were going to be learning issues, you had to take it in stride and either figure out a fix or send it back and hope the next one would be better. We were just thrilled that they were making FE parts at all! So you cuss a bit, tell the customer there is a delay, and move on. Do you think everyone will cut BBM's new parts that kind of slack? Obviously not.

In actuality, BBM prototype heads have not only been sent out for appraisal, they have been on numerous running engines for the last eight months and have logged thousands of miles with no issues. We dyno'd our first engine with BBM heads last fall. ALL this was done BEFORE giving the go ahead for actual, full production. Doug has a 36 year background as a master CNC machinist, he is quite focused on the quality, accuracy, and consistency of the machining on the heads, as well as the blocks.

As for the "mysterious" offshore supplier that nobody has ever seen, yeah, maybe the folks in FE world aren't familiar with them, but the same could be said for Pond, Genesis, and 427 Garage. They don't explain who their suppliers are, or give out ANY info what so ever. And they don't have to.

The foundry and machine shop that BBM is working with may be unfamiliar to most of us, but they are major players, both at home and with Detroit. The machine shop is a regular Aerospace/Defense industry contractor, and they currently machine automotive V-6 heads and blocks for one of the big auto makers. The foundry casts aluminum and iron automotive blocks, diesel blocks, and is CGI capable. They have a fifteen year history of casting and machining blocks for Detroit and are in the process of setting up to produce new castings for Detroit at the rate of thousands per month. This is no garage operation. 

While working out details on the new engine parts, Detroit and Korea have sent teams of people back and forth many times this past year. During these trips, representatives from the foundry and machine shop have not only stopped and spent time with Doug at BBM in California, but they have even flown to Colorado and come to our little shop. Twice last year, they have sent a team here, including foundry and design engineers, a metallurgist, lead machinist, machine shop foreman and the owner. Each time, we've spent days going over blueprints, BBM parts, original parts, and other aftermarket parts, looking at how Blue Oval will be doing finish machining on the heads and blocks, flow testing, and doing mock assemblies. They insisted on mounting everything to the blocks, from intake manifold to oil pan, bell housing to motor mounts. I have been very impressed with the level of professionalism and their Can Do attitude.   They actually listen to what we have to say, and do what we ask. If I pointed out something that wasn't quite right on a prototype part, they reacted with embarrassment and assured me that it would be taken care of and would not be a problem again. It's really a matter of pride, and they want to produce a top quality part. It's very rare to find that kind of dedication anymore. It's the kind of attitude I think this country had from WWII through to the Cold War and Space Program in the Sixties.

All of us worry about the shift from U.S. to offshore manufactured goods. And while many of us will try to favor American made goods, it's almost impossible to do. Even so called American made goods are not always American. While researching suppliers for seats and guides, Doug found that while the well known US made cylinder head manufacturer's seats and guides may be finish machined here, the blanks are made in China. On their assembled heads, the valves are imported and the springs are China.  There are no cut and dried answers.

It all comes down to producing the best possible product, at a reasonable cost, with consistent availability, and excellent customer service.


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