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Messages - tommytt

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1
FE Technical Forum / Re: Cam bearing problem
« on: April 14, 2020, 04:31:29 PM »
Badcat,
Thank you for posting the direct link.
That's beyond my internet capabilities.
Thanks again,  Tom

2
FE Technical Forum / Re: Cam bearing problem
« on: April 13, 2020, 02:34:53 PM »
Barry,
Thank you for the thoughts on how to look for the problem with the pan off. 
I hate to think I will be pulling this engine out again but at least I will have a plan on how to look for this mysterious problem.  Hopefully I can see up in there.
(Wayne, thanks too)
Thank you,  Tom Tucker
If you have time maybe check the YouTube video I posted in case you spot something wrong.   "427 Ford FE engine building tips 10 2019"
I shouldn't of posted this with all the trouble I'm experiencing.

ALSO a PS  to Brent too.  No restrictors between crank and pan.


3
FE Technical Forum / Re: Cam bearing problem
« on: April 13, 2020, 12:21:37 AM »
67xr7cat
I hope I'm answering these questions in the right way for this forum. Not sure how this site works.
What started this whole mess, a year ago was a crushed thrust bearing.  The sides of the bearing were worn away. Even had to have the crank welded and machined where it contacts the sides of the thrust bearing.
I was worried about the cam itself.  I'll called Isky again to see if they had sold this cam to anyone else.  They mentioned, on a previous call, that it was a new core supplier from back east.  It was a special grind they did for me for the blower.  I asked several questions about how they ground the journals and how the polished them afterward.  The usual answer, "We haven't had any problems".  I'll call them again tomorrow.
The crushed cam bearings.  To describe them best the bottom half of the bearing was crushed to where a about 1/8" of the bearing was pushed out on both sides.  More so on #2 and #4.  I know that is the rocker feed holes.  I do have the holes to the rocker stand studs blocked about 80%.
I was so sure all would be good this time I tossed the cam bearings 2 weeks ago. 
Tom

4
FE Technical Forum / Re: Cam bearing problem
« on: April 12, 2020, 05:35:59 PM »
Brent,
All 16 rockers went from .025" lash to .060" give or take a little after 4 or 5 minutes.  I did go through them 2 or 3 times originally at .025".
I'm really leaning toward the cracked block idea.  I just can't see, with all the checking I've done, how it could be a clearance problem.  I would love something simpler but I don't know where else to look. 
You guys have been great and I know you really know your stuff.  More questions are fine.
Also I'm not good at using this forum so sorry if I don't reply correctly.
I did post a long reply, a couple of hours ago, with lots of answers to many questions.
Thanks again,  Tom

5
FE Technical Forum / Re: Cam bearing problem
« on: April 12, 2020, 05:25:55 PM »
Jay,
Good thought. 
The 1st rebuild, I did have intake manifold interference with the pushrods. I bought another set of Manton pushrods with a 5/16th shaft.  It cleared but looked weak.  On the 2nd build (or 3rd, its all a blur now) I went back to 3/8's shaft and worked on the manifold to enlarge the holes while I had it off.

6
FE Technical Forum / Re: Cam bearing problem
« on: April 12, 2020, 02:37:17 PM »
Guys,  Barry, Brent, Mike, Ross, Jay and others,
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for your replies.  I have read every one.
I'll go through the clearances I have triple checked which makes me lean toward a cracked block or something really odd.
Piston to valve, about .250" because of 8-1/2 to 1 comp for blower.  Retainer to valve seal 1/4" at open and also spring coils, inner and outer about a 1/4" at open.  Spring pressure is now down to 625lbs ish and 225lbs ish closed.  Timing gear to cam plate about .008".  I didn't measure cam bearing clearance to cam, as a few of you mentioned, but it felt great, turned freely, and the machine said that it was good when they installed the cam bearings (3 diff times) and 2 diff shops.  You're right I should have rechecked this myself especially with all the problems.  Also rods and mains are both at .025" with a steel Ford crank.  All rod and main bearings look great on tear down and very little metal in filter.  Cam bearings are just crushed but not worn like a bearing would like with a 1000 mile problem. Rockers move freely and have needle bearings where they contact the rocker shaft. I sat the valve covers back on, not bolted down, and put hand pressure on them to see if rockers were hitting the inside of cover. No contact and no signs of or marks inside of covers.  Great thoughts on cam bearings. NOT spun and holes still line up.  Middle 3 showed MORE damage than end 2.  First set were ACL then 2nd and 3rd sets from diff machine shop were different brand. I should of asked but they were not ACL.  I didn't want to get into the 1st tear down problem but it was no oil to rockers. OK if I have room I'll explain. The lifters I had in the car, for 40 years, were Ford shell flat tappet lifters which prevented oil from going through the lifter galleries. They have no wide groove on the outside of the lifter. When I switched to the Isky roller cam, a year ago, the new Isky solid rollers have the big oil groove, on the outside of the lifter, which killed the oil pressure to the rockers. Ruined 4 rockers, which I replaced and I thoroughly checked all others. I have since then restricted the oil flow by 90% through the 2 lifter galleries. Brent you questioned why I spent time on getting more oil to the rockers. This is why. I probably shouldn't have brought this up but it is fixed now and when I power the oil pump, with my air ratchet, oil flows very nicely through the rockers. I get 40 PSI driving the pump this way.
Back to my real problem (cam bearings).  I have a spare brand new, never used, 427 bare block.  I have been saving it (for what??). Maybe now!  Also I think one of you mentioned a cam bearing that was a little wider. What brand??
I hope I have answered all your questions on clearances and checks.  If you see something I mentioned that doesn't sound right let me know.
I can tell you are all VERY knowledgeable regarding the FE motors.  I have a few good years left doing what I love, which is building and racing the Ford FE.  There is definitely not a lot of us out there.
I did post on YouTube a video of some of my build.  I feel maybe I shouldn't have because of all my failures.  If you want to see it it's listed under "427 Ford FE Engine Building Tips 10-2019" Tom Tucker   If you spot some mistakes let me have it.  I'm ready to except my mistakes.
I know this was long but I'm desperate.   Tom T

7
FE Technical Forum / Cam bearing problem
« on: April 12, 2020, 01:48:58 AM »
HELP
I will be pulling my engine out for the 4th time in a year and never with more than 10 minutes break in time.  The cam bearings are being crushed, like putty, on the bottom half of the bearing.
427 original side oiler, 671 blower, Hilborn mechanical injection in a '57 Ford ranchero Gasser. Runs low 10's.
I ran the car for 8 years with no problems.  A little over a year ago I hurt the thrust bearing so I pulled the engine for crank repairs.
Okay.  Here's my changes, while I had it out, so I'm guessing one of these is my problem. 
I took the 427 standard irons heads off.  They were ported and set up nicely with stainless PRW rockers etc.  I replaced them with BBM heads that were CNC'd to flow about 360 CFM on the intakes.  The open spring pressure was 750 ish and closed 350 ish.  I did, later on my 3rd attempt to get the cam bearings to live, reduce the spring pressure by about 125 open and closed.  I have Harland Sharp full roller rockers.
The other change I did was to install an Isky solid roller cam with their best rollers.  I do have a blue printed HV oil pump.  Also 3 different sets of Manton push rods were tried to get the best pattern on the top of the valve.  I don't see anything that is binding.
The BBM heads and Isky cam set up were there from the 1st build, a year ago, and on thru all these problems.
Things I have done to try and fix this major headache and body aches too.  I've had the car since 1962 (not a typo) and pull and build the engines myself.  I'm tired of lots of work and no pleasure!
Sorry I got distracted.   I have had 2 different "Hi-Perf" machine shops change cam bearings each rebuild.  They tried a couple different brands.
The last time the shop even went in behind the bearings, 2 & 4, and cut a groove connecting the 2 oil feed holes.  We were worried that the smaller groove in 2 & 4 journal on the Isky cam was not deep enough.  Also the time before they even enlarged the 2 cam grooves on 2 & 4.
I also restricted the oil passages to the lifters because it is a later 427 block drilled for hydraulics.
When I test the oil pressure, on the engine stand, oil flows everywhere.  When in the car it starts out at 100psi, but again with maybe 6 minutes running time, the pressure goes down to 5psi.  I pulled the valve covers, to check the lash, which I had set at .025", and it is now .060" so I know the cam bearings are crushed again.
Sorry for rambling on but I really need some thoughts.
Tom T

8
FE Technical Forum / Re: Issue with drilling/tapping for pipe plug in 427
« on: October 21, 2019, 06:08:46 PM »
I am in the process of rebuilding my 427 sideoiler. 
I have done several of these engines since I am a little hard on them.  I have a 671 blown and Hilborn injected '57 Ford Ranchero drag car.
Your issue with the 1/4 NPT and or 3/8 NPT is interesting.  I do believe the 3 threaded holes, 2 in the back of the block and 1 in the front of the block, where Ford drilled the side oiler passage are not NPT (Pipe Thread).  The 2nd one in the rear is for the relief valve.  I have a bag of Ford OE plugs, maybe 25 or 30 plugs.  There are 2 types of bigger plugs (smaller NPT plugs are for the 3 side oiler holes on the drivers side of the block and numerous other locations on the block).  As far as the bigger plugs one is NPT the other appears to be a straight thread.  I believe these 3, straight threaded plugs, go in the front (1 hole) and rear (2 holes) of the block.  I also believe Ford put a 2nd, very small, allen type hole inside the big allen hole in the plug.  Maybe this was done to identify the plugs.  For sure the NPT plugs don't fit these holes.  Way to big.
Lastly I have searched all my Ford books and the internet and cannot find any info on these plugs.  You do find info on how to correctly install the relief valve but nothing on the correct plugs to use.
Tommy T

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