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Messages - 60sIron

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1
FE Technical Forum / Re: Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: October 26, 2025, 06:42:43 PM »
Really?!  That is terrifying.

Have Canton T pans always been that size?  This one is about 20 years old.

2
FE Technical Forum / Re: Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: October 26, 2025, 04:27:42 PM »
So here's what happened...

I put the valve covers back on and warmed up the engine until it started ticking again.  Then I added another quart of the same oil that was in it.  The oil in the engine had about 500 miles on it.  I had put in 5 quarts with the filter.  This is a Canton "T" pan, but not the race version.  The oil is the white label Castrol GTX 10W30, not synthetic silver, or synthetic blend green.  With the engine running and ticking I added one quart from the same batch I bought when I changed the oil in the car.  The ticking got quieter.  I continued running the car for a while just in case it took some time to heat the quart I added back up to the point that it would start ticking again.  After about 10 minutes of running and revving the engine to get it to heat up, the ticking never returned.

Then I jacked up the car and drained the oil.  I did collect a sample of the oil for analysis.

Straub had recommended a full synthetic 10W40 oil, which was surprisingly difficult to find.  Eventually I found Royal Purple HPS (high performance street) full synthetic 10W40 at the local NAPA auto parts (they also had Amsoil, but that cost almost double what I paid for this purple stuff, $14/bottle) I got 6 quarts and a NAPA gold filter.  I changed the oil and put in all 6 quarts (not 5 like the last oil change).  It was even quieter than it had been before the oil change and no ticking.  I ran it for a while and still no ticking.  Then I took it out on the road and on the highway to get fully hot and it hasn't started ticking.

So now some new theories:

- 5 quarts isn't enough oil for this engine.  It never lost oil pressure with 5 quarts, even on the road accelerating and turning corners, maybe it was sucking a little bit of air and foaming the oil, but I never saw any evidence of that
- Perhaps this oil had been damaged by fuel contamination and adding a fresh quart helped it a bit.  It is a carbureted car with a choke and it runs a bit rich sometime, but I'm surprised if the oil could be fouled in 500 miles, perhaps it is marginal for this application and just a bit of wear and the oil viscosity gets too low for these lifters.
- Maybe this oil formulation and grade just doesn't work well with these lifters.  I've always kind of assumed oil was oil.  I pay attention to weight and I know synthetic has better temperature tolerance, but I generally bought what was on sale and since I only drive this car on nice days conventional oil was good enough.  It isn't flat tappet, so I wasn't too worried about zinc.
- Maybe this engine needs the slightly heavier weight 10W40, bearing clearances, or lifter bore clearance might be better served by the 10W40.  I had experimented with 20W50 on this engine and other that burying the needle on the oil pressure gauge, I didn't notice much improvement.  10W40 runs at a higher oil pressure than the 10W30 did, but it is still in the normal range of the gauge.

I'm going to send in this oil for testing, maybe it will give me a clue about what happened.  The good news is it seems to be solved.  Hopefully I don't have to change my oil every 500 miles.

3
FE Technical Forum / Re: E85
« on: October 22, 2025, 03:50:44 PM »
With "FlexFuel" EFI, they have an alcohol sensor in the fuel line and they adjust the fueling table based on the percentage.  Blenders will deliberately put less ethanol / more gasoline during the winter months for retail gas stations to help with cold starting.  If you want genuine 85% ethanol you can buy it in 55 gal. drums like race gas, but it does have a shelf life.

4
FE Technical Forum / Re: Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: October 20, 2025, 02:58:45 PM »
They sent me a follow up email saying 10W40....OK

5
FE Technical Forum / Re: Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: October 20, 2025, 02:47:56 PM »
I called Straub who seems to do the technical support for these lifters.  They told me to use a 5W30 synthetic oil.  At this point, I'll give it a try.

6
FE Technical Forum / Re: Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: October 18, 2025, 05:20:54 PM »
I had to go to Chicago for work, so I haven't been able to work on this in a while.  Today I started it back up and got it warm enough to start making the noise again.

Then I took both valve covers off and started it back up.  The back three rockers on the driver's side had less oil flow than the front five and the passenger side all rockers looked the same with about the same amount of oil as the front rockers on the driver's side.  So changing the lash didn't help oil flow to the back.  I thought I took a good video of this, but when I went back to watch it, I forgot to hit record.  I did get a good video of the engine warming up when the noise starts to happen.

When I figured out I didn't get a recording with the covers off I restarted the engine, but it must have cooled off a bit because it was now throwing oil everywhere.  The back three on the driver's side still had less flow, but they were flowing as much as the front five were when it was hot.

Should these things be throwing oil all of the time?  When it's hot and making the noise I'm getting a dribble of oil coming out of the roller tip of the rocker arm and a small puddle of oil on the spring retainer.  A small paper dam about an inch higher than the springs mostly contains it.  When the engine was colder there was more oil pooling and it was splashing off the tops of the springs and over the paper dam.

Unless someone has other things for me to try, it seems like I'm going to pull this engine.  Things to check:

1) lifter bores worn / too big
2) Lifters coming out of the bore and unshrouding the oil band
3) Trash or maybe a restrictor in the lifter oil gallery
4) Cracks around the cam tunnel or oil gallery

I don't really have space to pull this engine where I'm at, and we might be moving soon where I would have more space to work so this isn't a project I can start right away.

Also, if anyone has a recommendation for a good FE machine shop in the Oakland - Stockton California area, I'm probably going to need one.

7
FE Technical Forum / Re: Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: October 06, 2025, 11:17:08 AM »
Yes, I came to that conclusion as well.

This weekend, I started up the engine to get it warm because on Facebook someone had said they encountered problems with the T&D spacers getting tight when hot.  This time it made the ticking right away when I started it cold.  Then the ticking came back when it got hot again.  I took the valve covers off, and the front spacer was tight.  So I removed the rocker assembly and took about .015" off the spacer and flipped around the shims on either side of the second tower (one shim is .003 and the other is .009)

Then I looked at the adjusters.  They seemed to be all over the place, but the rockers that had low oil flow were the ones most out (up).  I removed the adjuster and measured the position of the groove in the adjuster relative to the hole in rocker arm and this could be causing a restriction.  Also given they were so far up it could mean not enough preload.  So I recalibrated the pushrod drag method and reset the preload looking for a lot more resistance.  The result was a major gallop indicating at least two cylinders didn't have compression.  I could tell, I was opening some valves when setting the preload, so this wasn't a big surprise.  I tried it and it didn't work.  When I turn the engine over during the lash setting process, the lifters get spongy because I assume the springs squeeze all the oil out of them.  So in my next attempt, I set the lash to take up all the sponginess which I assume is the bottom of the hydraulic travel, then I backed them off 1/2 turn.  This resulted in much more consistent cylinder to cylinder adjustment and everything was in the range to provide good oiling to the rocker arm.

It started and ran quiet until it was fully warmed up and then the ticking returned.  So the problem isn't solved.

I don't think this is a weak lifter problem because I've changed all the lifters once.   The first set of lifters were probably Morels, they came in a Crane box that sat on my shelf for almost 10 years (2007 vintage).  I changed those to a new set of identical lifters from Howard's Cams in 2020.  The lifter change didn't have any effect on the noise.

Could this be as simple as switching from 10W30 to 5W30?  That seems wrong considering the problem shows up when it is hot.

The other thing I'm thinking is some kind of restriction in the oil feeds, but that wouldn't explain why the sound goes away when cold.

I'm kicking myself for never measuring the lifter bores when I was building it, or back in 2020 when I changed out the lifters.  They didn't look bad, and the lifters weren't sloppy in the bores, but that is one area that might be a problem.



8
FE Technical Forum / Re: Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: October 02, 2025, 09:21:00 AM »
Yes, I used the EIOC method to adjust the preload.

When the lifter was on the base circle, I would adjust the rocker until I felt resistance turning pushrod indicating that I was at zero lash.  From there I turned the adjuster down another 3/4 turn.  Since it was getting noisy when it warmed up, I tried adding another 1/4 turn, and then a second 1/4 turn.  Since those weren't effective I moved on to looking for other problems.

9
FE Technical Forum / Re: Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: September 30, 2025, 08:07:07 PM »
Thank you Barry and Jay, that gives me something I can check.

These are all 8.750” pushrods.  If this is a problem would I need a special pushrod a few thousandths different?  Mill down the rocker stands a bit or shim them up a bit?

10
FE Technical Forum / Re: Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: September 28, 2025, 05:45:52 PM »
These were Howard's Cams lifters, but they have Morel part numbers on them, so I suspect they were made by Morel.

For what it's worth, I have swapped out the lifters and it didn't change the problem.  The oil is 10W30, Pennzoil I think.  Maybe Castrol.  Ordinary motor oil.

I have a video of this, but it is too big and wrong format to post.

11
FE Technical Forum / Lack of oil to rear lifters
« on: September 27, 2025, 05:11:41 PM »
I’ve had a difficult to diagnose valve noise since day one on this engine.  It has a high volume oil pump and has great oil pressure.  This is a hydraulic roller setup with the T&D shaft type rockers which oil through the pushrods.  Part of the difficulty finding this problem is that it seems to work fine when it first starts up, so when I fix something and start it up and the noise is gone, I think I’ve fixed it.  Then it returns at the end of a test drive when the engine is fully hot.  I’ve also had trouble pinpointing if the noise is coming from the left or right bank.

So today I started it up and got it fully hot until the noise returned.  Then I removed the valve cover and started it up.  The front 5 rocker arms appeared to be getting normal amounts of oil.  The rear 3 seemed to be getting a lot less, and the last rocker arm didn’t seem to be getting any oil at all.  So now I’m thinking the noise is lifters starved for oil and not closing up the lash.  Has anyone here encountered a problem with rear lifters losing oil pressure when hot?  The gauge still shows plenty of pressure and the front lifters seem to be working fine.

I fully expect this will require a tear down, but I’m not sure what to look for.  Very much want to avoid a tear down, find nothing, reassemble and same problem situation.

12
FE Technical Forum / Re: Rocker stud problems
« on: August 12, 2025, 09:48:35 AM »
Did you torque the stud itself, into the head 40-45 ft/lbs, or did you torque the nuts to that amount?

The studs were just screwed in finger tight.  The nuts were torqued with the ARP lube that came with the kit.

13
FE Technical Forum / Re: Rocker stud problems
« on: August 11, 2025, 04:08:48 PM »

What kind of head is it?

It is a BBM head, probably 2016 or 2017 vintage.

14
FE Technical Forum / Rocker stud problems
« on: August 11, 2025, 02:17:27 PM »
So I've had a thread insert for a rocker stud pull out of my aluminum head.  It presented itself as an increasingly loud rattling noise.  I'm in the process of figuring out what I'm going to do, but I wanted to ask the community what causes this.  I torqued the studs to 40-45 ft lbs.  I assume if there was a coil bind problem it would have destroyed all the inserts immediately, not slowly over the course of a few hundred miles.  Interested in hearing your thoughts on this.  Hopefully I can fix this and it will stay fixed.

15
FE Technical Forum / Fel-Pro valve cover gaskets
« on: July 21, 2020, 05:57:15 PM »
Why are Fel-Pro VS 13049 R rubber valve cover gaskets 3/8" longer (too long) than Fel-Pro 1632 cork gaskets?

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