1
FE Technical Forum / Re: 427 cast iron headers99
« on: December 20, 2015, 01:24:28 PM »
At least 50hp
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2
FE Technical Forum / Re: Let have a technical discussion on optimum performance tuning for a N/A FE.
« on: March 02, 2013, 11:28:14 AM »
DISTRIBUTOR
Any battery-operated, stock-type ignition permitted. Crank trigger systems prohibited unless OEM distributorless ignition. Distributorless ignition must retain OEM number of coils. See General Regulations 8:3.
COMPUTER/DATA RECORDERS
Original OEM computer may be replaced with aftermarket computer. Data recorders permitted. Other than OEM or OEM-replacement computers prohibited. See General Regulations 9:1, 9:2.
Well according to the rule book. You might be able to do something like you're talking about but the MSD box would have to be able to operate the individual coils because I couldn't use an ECU if it didn't come with one the way I'm reading it. You would have to use the distributor as the "crank trigger" and figure out if you can make the 7730/7720 MSD box control the individual coils. I guess I just wondering what are you gaining by doing this?
Any battery-operated, stock-type ignition permitted. Crank trigger systems prohibited unless OEM distributorless ignition. Distributorless ignition must retain OEM number of coils. See General Regulations 8:3.
COMPUTER/DATA RECORDERS
Original OEM computer may be replaced with aftermarket computer. Data recorders permitted. Other than OEM or OEM-replacement computers prohibited. See General Regulations 9:1, 9:2.
Well according to the rule book. You might be able to do something like you're talking about but the MSD box would have to be able to operate the individual coils because I couldn't use an ECU if it didn't come with one the way I'm reading it. You would have to use the distributor as the "crank trigger" and figure out if you can make the 7730/7720 MSD box control the individual coils. I guess I just wondering what are you gaining by doing this?
3
FE Technical Forum / Re: Let have a technical discussion on optimum performance tuning for a N/A FE.
« on: February 28, 2013, 11:08:01 PM »Really if you wanted the ultimate ignition system you would go coil on plug with a custom box. I have made custom circuit board systems for other applications before but not for that. I would use the Caddy variable timing circuit as a basis for my build. And use a standard ECM for controlled access.
Yeah that won't fly in Stock Eliminator lol
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FE Technical Forum / Re: Let have a technical discussion on optimum performance tuning for a N/A FE.
« on: February 28, 2013, 12:25:19 PM »MSD Digital 7s can do individual cylinder timing adjustments, based on a reference from cylinder #1. You have to put one of their spark pulse sensors, which is essentially the same as the clip from a timing light, over the #1 spark plug wire. The sensor is actually a donut shape, so it doesn't clip on to the plug wire, you have to pull one boot off the #1 plug wire and thread the wire through the sensor. Then there is a cable, fiberoptic I think, which goes from the sensor to a port in the MSD Digital 7. You have to tell the MSD what your firing order is, and then the software in the MSD will allow you to retard timing in any of the cylinders. I used this setup on my Mach 1 when I was running the supercharged engine, which was carbureted.
I think there are a lot of factors at work when it comes to causing variations in the individual cylinder fuel or timing requirements. Variations in the intake manifold and headers comes to mind, as well as fuel distribution. By the way, fuel distribution issues are not automatically cured by 8 EFI injectors, because there can be significant variation in the injectors themselves. Also temperature differences from cylinder to cylinder caused by variations in the cooling system could come into play, small variations in pistons or combustion chambers from cylinder to cylinder, etc. etc.; the list goes on and on. My efi-guru friend Dieselgeek has seen remarkably large variations from cylinder to cylinder in fuel requirements even with individual runner sheet metal intakes and EFI setups. So the more tunability you can put into individual cylinders, the more likely you will be able to squeeze out more horsepower.
Thanks for that explanation Jay. I've seen the sensors on the #1 wire and I knew it had something to do with the individual cylinder timing but I didn't know what else was involved to make it work. So basically as long as your mechanical advanced is locked out and you have this sensor and the ignition box programed correctly that's all you need for this to work?
5
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Interesting tool
« on: February 28, 2013, 03:59:48 AM »
That is cool!!!
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FE Technical Forum / Re: Let have a technical discussion on optimum performance tuning for a N/A FE.
« on: February 28, 2013, 03:28:57 AM »
Honestly I'm not 100% sure Tom. I've never tuned for individual cylinder timing. I know the ignition system can do it but I don't know if that's for EFI only. I've wondered how it would adjust individual cylinder timing with one coil and a dizzy.
7
FE Technical Forum / Re: Let have a technical discussion on optimum performance tuning for a N/A FE.
« on: February 28, 2013, 01:43:14 AM »Back in the day when I had my 69 Mustang E/SA 428 car we played with the boosters in the carb using some of the special version Ford had produced for various applications in order to improve mixture distribution. These boosters had small tabs cast onto the od of the booster at the bottom of the venturi. Maybe someone here has pictures of some of these. Of course we also played with the air bleeds along with the PVCR channels to adjust for cylinder to cylinder variation as indicated by plug reading. Indexing the plugs is really important in my view to make those samll adjustments more visible and repeatable.
Having eight AFR bungs in the headers as Jay mentioned really can help with that kind of tuning now that we have the technology available so relatiively inexpensively.
I'm way out of touch with what is legal in Stock eliminator classes these days. Can you run an ignition that allows you you tailor individual cylinder timing curves/ Maps? The dyno is best for that as it'll take a ton of drag strip passes to accomplish what you can in one or two days of dyno flogging.
All of this assumes you are trying to set record's or qualify at the top of the list. Otherwise getting the car to be consistent and working on your driving is way more important for going rounds.
One other note you will never be able to get a car to run as fast at 3000 DA as it does at sea level if the sea level tune was optimal or close to it, but neither can anyone else.
Yes the ignitions that are allowed today will let you map out timing curves and adjust individual cylinder timing as well.
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FE Technical Forum / Re: Fuel Line
« on: February 27, 2013, 01:05:13 AM »
Yeah I think the factory line was 3/8" also and the factory 2-4 set up with the BK BJ carbs were 600 cfm
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FE Technical Forum / Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« on: February 25, 2013, 10:45:49 AM »10
FE Technical Forum / Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« on: February 25, 2013, 09:57:27 AM »
Any idea when these guys will hit the market?
11
FE Technical Forum / Re: Let have a technical discussion on optimum performance tuning for a N/A FE.
« on: February 25, 2013, 09:43:46 AM »Ok if my math is right. There is 1,728 cubic inches in one cubic foot. 1728x640=1,105,920 Cubic inches of total volume. 1,105,920 / 427 = 2,589.97 x 4 = 10,359.90 RPM's???
Pretty close, Kris, but I'm not sure where you got the additional multiplication factor of 4 in your answer. The way I think of this is that it takes two revolutions of a four stroke engine to take in it's complete displacement. So, for a 427" engine, for one complete revolution it will take in 427/2 cubic inches of air, or 213.5 cubic inches. Using the numbers you calculated, 1,105,920 / 213.5 = 5180 RPM.
Yeah I was just thinking 4 stroke but you are correct it only takes two revolutions to complete a cycle so it should've read 2,589.97 x 2 = 5,179.94
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FE Technical Forum / Re: Let have a technical discussion on optimum performance tuning for a N/A FE.
« on: February 25, 2013, 12:47:24 AM »
Ok if my math is right. There is 1,728 cubic inches in one cubic foot. 1728x640=1,105,920 Cubic inches of total volume. 1,105,920 / 427 = 2,589.97 x 4 = 10,359.90 RPM's???
??
13
FE Technical Forum / Re: Let have a technical discussion on optimum performance tuning for a N/A FE.
« on: February 24, 2013, 12:51:35 AM »
Hummm Interesting... I'm curious about the formulas and how your 8x10x8 room works out there. I'm curious how much compression that room has and how many times a second you can exchange that air lol.
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FE Technical Forum / Re: John Cooper #1 Qualifier in Phoenix
« on: February 24, 2013, 12:32:07 AM »
Its a natural "B" car but you can move up or down one class so he can run A-C
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FE Technical Forum / John Cooper #1 Qualifier in Phoenix
« on: February 23, 2013, 12:32:11 PM »
The FE's are making a strong showing in Phoenix this weekend.
1 5227 B/SA John Cooper, LaPorte CO, '67 Fairlane 10.279 11.25 -0.971
2 6842 B/SA Daniel Cyr, Portland OR, '69 Camaro 10.293 11.25 -0.957
3 7769 O/SA Richard Unterseh, Peoria AZ, '80 Firebird 12.228 13.15 -0.922
4 624 A/SA Don Little, Westley CA, '70 Challenger 10.088 11.00 -0.912
5 1044 A/SA John Shaul, Fultonham NY, '62 Sport Fury 10.098 11.00 -0.902
6 2 D/SA Leo Glasbrenner, Chino CA, '68 Firebird 10.655 11.55 -0.895
7 7402 A/SA Tibor Kadar, Peoria AZ, '64 Fairlane 10.108 11.00 -0.892
8 5775 D/SA Bob Johnson, Aurora CO, '67 Mustang 10.658 11.55 -0.892
9 652 G/S Bob Gullett, Calgary AB, '68 Nova 11.009 11.90 -0.891
10 7307 G/SA Jeff Jerome, Los Angeles CA, '73 Duster 11.112 12.00 -0.888
11 777 F/SA Earl Blake, Las Vegas NV, '68 Barracuda 10.975 11.85 -0.875
12 7593 C/SA Richard Pauley, Saugus CA, '68 Mustang 10.530 11.40 -0.870
13 752A D/SA Josh Edwards, Grierdale AZ, '67 Mustang 10.685 11.55 -0.865
14 7575 F/SA Mark Kirby, Bakersfield CA, '73 Duster 10.990 11.85 -0.860
15 7411 N/SA Jon Irving, Boulder City NV, '78 Aspen Wgn12.163 13.00 -0.837
16 5009 B/SA Scott Burton, Golden CO, '70 Firebird 10.414 11.25 -0.836
17 701 A/SA John Calvert, Lancaster CA, '10 Mustang 10.168 11.00 -0.832
18 7025 C/SA Jerry Stein, Brentwood CA, '69 Dart 10.569 11.40 -0.831
19 7706 K/S Kelly Pott-Hall, Chandler AZ, '88 Mustang 11.725 12.55 -0.825
20 6111 B/SA Mary Ann Method, Weston OR, '69 Nova 10.436 11.25 -0.814
21 75 J/SA Kayla Mozeris, Peoria AZ, '88 Camaro 11.637 12.45 -0.813
22 7474 D/SA Justin Lamb, Henderson NV, '70 Camaro 10.740 11.55 -0.810
23 5742 B/SA Al Corda, Elk Mound WI, '02 Corvette 10.441 11.25 -0.809
24 6821 H/SA Mark Faul, Tacoma WA, '69 Chevelle 11.368 12.15 -0.782
25 6477 C/SA Aldon Miller, Idaho Falls ID, '68 Mustang 10.624 11.40 -0.776
26 1781 F/SA Dan Fletcher, Churchville NY, '69 Camaro 11.082 11.85 -0.768
27 5526 A/SA Dwayne Scheitlin, Brighton CO, '71 Challe 10.239 11.00 -0.761
28 1 E/SA Brad Burton, Kirkland WA, '72 Formula 10.941 11.70 -0.759
29 778 B/SA Jimmy DeFrank, Chatsworth CA, '69 Camaro 10.507 11.25 -0.743
30 6241 D/SA Casey Plaizier, Edmonton AB, '97 Firebird 10.813 11.55 -0.737
31 7793 D/SA Wes McGann, Phoenix AZ, '70 Nova 10.815 11.55 -0.735
32 737 B/SA Dwight Machael, Las Vegas NV, '62 Fury 10.516 11.25 -0.734
33 7628 K/SA Richard Meierhenry, Phoenix AZ, '80 Malibu11.941 12.65 -0.709
34 7707 A/S Dennis Alvey, Cornville AZ, '68 Mustang 10.271 10.95 -0.679
35 741 E/SA John Irving, Boulder City NV, '71 Dart 11.027 11.70 -0.673
36 7355 H/SA Chad Loge, Brentwood CA, '72 Barracuda 11.477 12.15 -0.673
37 7797 C/S Don Keen, Palmdale CA, '69 Mustang 10.684 11.35 -0.666
38 706 G/SA Buddy Jensen, Peoria AZ, '67 Camaro 11.345 12.00 -0.655
39 6261 G/SA Larry Peterson, Eugene OR, '71 Chevelle 11.348 12.00 -0.652
40 6070 AAA/SA Gary Coe, Portland OR, '13 Mustang 9.052 9.70 -0.648
41 7881 I/SA Chris Ashley, Chandler AZ, '90 Camaro 11.663 12.30 -0.637
42 5799 D/SA Brian Schultz, Stanchfield MN, '71 Duster 10.933 11.55 -0.617
43 7067 O/SA Broc Broaddus, Anaheim CA, '96 Camaro 12.546 13.15 -0.604
44 7077 D/SA Jeff Interlicchia, Riverside CA, '98 Fire 10.964 11.55 -0.586
45 1650 B/SA Gregory Gay, Westminster VT, '69 Super Bee10.711 11.25 -0.539
46 5567 CC/SA Alan Schoenenberger, Keenesburg CO, '10 C 10.074 10.60 -0.526
47 4783 CC/SA Rusty Hall, Chandler AZ, '67 Mustang 10.077 10.60 -0.523
48 5415 CC/SA John Dourlet, Telluride CO, '64 Savoy 10.091 10.60 -0.509
49 7042 E/SA Errol Farmer, Las Vegas NV, '70 Barracuda 11.212 11.70 -0.488
50 771C B/SA Karen Comstock, Las Vegas NV, '13 Mustang 10.773 11.25 -0.477
51 5733 B/S Dane McIntosh, Powell WY, '68 Camaro 10.799 11.20 -0.401
52 4023 G/SA Zack Torres, El Paso TX, '86 Camaro 11.610 12.00 -0.390
53 580 E/SA Steve Couch, Sidney NE, '09 Challenger 11.354 11.70 -0.346
54 7086 L/SA Matthew Hawk, Tucson AZ, '88 Mustang 12.391 12.70 -0.309
55 7106 L/SA Dave Workman, Casa Grande AZ, '89 Mustang 12.449 12.70 -0.251
56 7947 EF/S Bill O'Connor, Huntington Beach CA, '80 H 17.305 17.45 -0.145
57 726 BB/SA Dave Gertschen, Glendale AZ, '02 Firebird 10.197 10.30 -0.103
58 5798 J/SA Matthew Malenke, Mahtowa MN, '87 Camaro 12.365 12.45 -0.085
59 7179 L/SA Bob Elliott, Phoenix AZ, '84 Cutlass 12.649 12.70 -0.051
1 5227 B/SA John Cooper, LaPorte CO, '67 Fairlane 10.279 11.25 -0.971
2 6842 B/SA Daniel Cyr, Portland OR, '69 Camaro 10.293 11.25 -0.957
3 7769 O/SA Richard Unterseh, Peoria AZ, '80 Firebird 12.228 13.15 -0.922
4 624 A/SA Don Little, Westley CA, '70 Challenger 10.088 11.00 -0.912
5 1044 A/SA John Shaul, Fultonham NY, '62 Sport Fury 10.098 11.00 -0.902
6 2 D/SA Leo Glasbrenner, Chino CA, '68 Firebird 10.655 11.55 -0.895
7 7402 A/SA Tibor Kadar, Peoria AZ, '64 Fairlane 10.108 11.00 -0.892
8 5775 D/SA Bob Johnson, Aurora CO, '67 Mustang 10.658 11.55 -0.892
9 652 G/S Bob Gullett, Calgary AB, '68 Nova 11.009 11.90 -0.891
10 7307 G/SA Jeff Jerome, Los Angeles CA, '73 Duster 11.112 12.00 -0.888
11 777 F/SA Earl Blake, Las Vegas NV, '68 Barracuda 10.975 11.85 -0.875
12 7593 C/SA Richard Pauley, Saugus CA, '68 Mustang 10.530 11.40 -0.870
13 752A D/SA Josh Edwards, Grierdale AZ, '67 Mustang 10.685 11.55 -0.865
14 7575 F/SA Mark Kirby, Bakersfield CA, '73 Duster 10.990 11.85 -0.860
15 7411 N/SA Jon Irving, Boulder City NV, '78 Aspen Wgn12.163 13.00 -0.837
16 5009 B/SA Scott Burton, Golden CO, '70 Firebird 10.414 11.25 -0.836
17 701 A/SA John Calvert, Lancaster CA, '10 Mustang 10.168 11.00 -0.832
18 7025 C/SA Jerry Stein, Brentwood CA, '69 Dart 10.569 11.40 -0.831
19 7706 K/S Kelly Pott-Hall, Chandler AZ, '88 Mustang 11.725 12.55 -0.825
20 6111 B/SA Mary Ann Method, Weston OR, '69 Nova 10.436 11.25 -0.814
21 75 J/SA Kayla Mozeris, Peoria AZ, '88 Camaro 11.637 12.45 -0.813
22 7474 D/SA Justin Lamb, Henderson NV, '70 Camaro 10.740 11.55 -0.810
23 5742 B/SA Al Corda, Elk Mound WI, '02 Corvette 10.441 11.25 -0.809
24 6821 H/SA Mark Faul, Tacoma WA, '69 Chevelle 11.368 12.15 -0.782
25 6477 C/SA Aldon Miller, Idaho Falls ID, '68 Mustang 10.624 11.40 -0.776
26 1781 F/SA Dan Fletcher, Churchville NY, '69 Camaro 11.082 11.85 -0.768
27 5526 A/SA Dwayne Scheitlin, Brighton CO, '71 Challe 10.239 11.00 -0.761
28 1 E/SA Brad Burton, Kirkland WA, '72 Formula 10.941 11.70 -0.759
29 778 B/SA Jimmy DeFrank, Chatsworth CA, '69 Camaro 10.507 11.25 -0.743
30 6241 D/SA Casey Plaizier, Edmonton AB, '97 Firebird 10.813 11.55 -0.737
31 7793 D/SA Wes McGann, Phoenix AZ, '70 Nova 10.815 11.55 -0.735
32 737 B/SA Dwight Machael, Las Vegas NV, '62 Fury 10.516 11.25 -0.734
33 7628 K/SA Richard Meierhenry, Phoenix AZ, '80 Malibu11.941 12.65 -0.709
34 7707 A/S Dennis Alvey, Cornville AZ, '68 Mustang 10.271 10.95 -0.679
35 741 E/SA John Irving, Boulder City NV, '71 Dart 11.027 11.70 -0.673
36 7355 H/SA Chad Loge, Brentwood CA, '72 Barracuda 11.477 12.15 -0.673
37 7797 C/S Don Keen, Palmdale CA, '69 Mustang 10.684 11.35 -0.666
38 706 G/SA Buddy Jensen, Peoria AZ, '67 Camaro 11.345 12.00 -0.655
39 6261 G/SA Larry Peterson, Eugene OR, '71 Chevelle 11.348 12.00 -0.652
40 6070 AAA/SA Gary Coe, Portland OR, '13 Mustang 9.052 9.70 -0.648
41 7881 I/SA Chris Ashley, Chandler AZ, '90 Camaro 11.663 12.30 -0.637
42 5799 D/SA Brian Schultz, Stanchfield MN, '71 Duster 10.933 11.55 -0.617
43 7067 O/SA Broc Broaddus, Anaheim CA, '96 Camaro 12.546 13.15 -0.604
44 7077 D/SA Jeff Interlicchia, Riverside CA, '98 Fire 10.964 11.55 -0.586
45 1650 B/SA Gregory Gay, Westminster VT, '69 Super Bee10.711 11.25 -0.539
46 5567 CC/SA Alan Schoenenberger, Keenesburg CO, '10 C 10.074 10.60 -0.526
47 4783 CC/SA Rusty Hall, Chandler AZ, '67 Mustang 10.077 10.60 -0.523
48 5415 CC/SA John Dourlet, Telluride CO, '64 Savoy 10.091 10.60 -0.509
49 7042 E/SA Errol Farmer, Las Vegas NV, '70 Barracuda 11.212 11.70 -0.488
50 771C B/SA Karen Comstock, Las Vegas NV, '13 Mustang 10.773 11.25 -0.477
51 5733 B/S Dane McIntosh, Powell WY, '68 Camaro 10.799 11.20 -0.401
52 4023 G/SA Zack Torres, El Paso TX, '86 Camaro 11.610 12.00 -0.390
53 580 E/SA Steve Couch, Sidney NE, '09 Challenger 11.354 11.70 -0.346
54 7086 L/SA Matthew Hawk, Tucson AZ, '88 Mustang 12.391 12.70 -0.309
55 7106 L/SA Dave Workman, Casa Grande AZ, '89 Mustang 12.449 12.70 -0.251
56 7947 EF/S Bill O'Connor, Huntington Beach CA, '80 H 17.305 17.45 -0.145
57 726 BB/SA Dave Gertschen, Glendale AZ, '02 Firebird 10.197 10.30 -0.103
58 5798 J/SA Matthew Malenke, Mahtowa MN, '87 Camaro 12.365 12.45 -0.085
59 7179 L/SA Bob Elliott, Phoenix AZ, '84 Cutlass 12.649 12.70 -0.051