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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Flathead
« on: January 20, 2021, 04:31:49 PM »
Can you count the head studs? The Lincoln flatty has 27 per side vs. the ford with 24 or 21.
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77
FE Technical Forum / Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads - More Test Results
« on: January 18, 2021, 12:59:28 AM »
Considering the small power difference between the different heads, could the lack of high RPM horsepower gain be due to over scavenging on the exhaust at high RPM? Pulling too much intake charge out with it?
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Does piston weight create a flywheel effect?
« on: January 11, 2021, 09:09:40 PM »
I always figured that the heavier a set of pistons is, the more power it takes to accelerate them. But I didn't think that they have a flywheel effect when decelerating. Since they reciprocate, I think they absorb power all the time. Someone on another forum says that in a multicylinder engine, the pistons create a flywheel effect, and the heavier the piston the more the flywheel affect. So what do you guys think?
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 22, 2020, 11:25:15 AM »
I don't think the 3 mains are a problem if, you use a 180 crank. The Novi (Indy engine) was reliable with 3 mains at 8k+ rpm.
Why is that? Is the 180 crank stiffer?
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 09, 2020, 01:49:34 PM »
We have some great ideas to get started with, thanks for all the help.
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 06, 2020, 10:33:50 PM »
Also, Don't overlook the Seagrave / American La-France / Pierce Arrow V12's for inspiration. They tried some really unique setups, like in the 906. Is this a OHV, or a flathead???
Pictured is the Auburn V12, which was sold to American La France after Auburn folded. It was a clean sheet design by Auburn, and at $1100 an Aunburn V12 car was one of the greatest automotive bargains ever. Since Cord owned both Auburn and Lycoming, all Cord and Auburn engines of that era were built there.
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 04, 2020, 08:30:51 PM »
That Navaro blower head loos simpler than the Harley KR heads.
I need to see more details on the JR. dragster stuff. That is VERY interesting, considering 1.96 hp per cube naturally aspirated.
We are building the heads on the cnc machining center. there will be a bottom and a top plate with water jackets and support ribs milled in between, with O-rings as needed. We are thinking the top plate will fit multiple different design bottom plates, so we can experiment with different combustion chambers but reuse the tops.
I need to see more details on the JR. dragster stuff. That is VERY interesting, considering 1.96 hp per cube naturally aspirated.
We are building the heads on the cnc machining center. there will be a bottom and a top plate with water jackets and support ribs milled in between, with O-rings as needed. We are thinking the top plate will fit multiple different design bottom plates, so we can experiment with different combustion chambers but reuse the tops.
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 04, 2020, 05:42:07 PM »My ideas on this subject will be a bit different. I like the idea of FT pistons, with a enhanced, transfer area. Flow bench the transfer area to see what flows the best.
What I learned about fluid dynamics, say that the pressure will be equal, within any given space and that pressure will exerted by the square inch area, regardless of shape.
Flame travel is very different from pressure and I agree with moving the spark plug. I would put it on the edge of the transfer, angled to the cylinder. It's my understanding that Ford put it near the exhaust valve, to keep it clean but, with modern extended plugs, I don't think it's relevant now.
As for the valves and getting flow, since there is virtually no flow over the valve, you need to work with the curtain. Larger valves, have larger curtains so, I would install the largest valves possible at a 85% ratio and work the contour around them on a flow bench. Everything needs to be as tight as possible in the chamber but, give the transfer and the area around the valves, everything they need. i.e. min piston to head and min head gasket shape and min clearance for the valve head, to back of the chamber, to promote forward flow.
I would also use as large a radius as the top ring to top of the piston will allow, to gain flow in the transfer area.
we can put the spark plugs wherever we want, and uses many as we want. Maybe I will start out with two separate locations test each.
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 04, 2020, 05:38:24 PM »The 337 is very underappreciated from a performance standpoint. Remember, at the time, the 337 was competing directly against the OHV Cad 331 and was very comparable in power output (154 hp vs 160) and torque (265 ft-lbs vs. 292 ft-lbs). That said, there is lots of room to improve. I would start by studying the Harley Davidson KR engine. Harley coaxed 60+ hp out of 45 ci in order to exploit a loop hole in the flat track rules at the time that gave flatheads a LARGE displacement advantage. HD achieved this incredible 1.333 hp/ci with only 6:1 compression. This would be perfect for a highly boosted application. Imagine a 337 Lincoln with this same hp/ci ratio would produce 450 Hp! The other place to look would be to get ahold of Rick Schnell up in Anoka. He has the word's quickest flathead powered dragster. The "Slider" is a 950 Hp+ Nitro huffing FED. Obviously Nitromethane and a 4-71 blower will cover up a lot of sins, but I guarantee you Rick has a few flathead tricks up his sleeve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-OXWC7Ufv4
thanks for the pictures of those heads, I like the looks of that and it is definitely something we could try. I will be getting a hold of Rick Schnell as well, thank you
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 04, 2020, 05:26:04 PM »Many years ago I looked into supercharging the 239. The problem was getting the exhaust out of those ports without over heating the engine. The center siamesed ports seemed to want to boil the coolant. Yes you could get a lot of combustible air into the engine, but it seemed to hit a early limit because the exhaust gas just couldn't get out.
Using an early opening valve to push the exhaust out just added to the coolant problem as the mixture wanted to burn in the exhaust port.
The 337 does have much better exhaust ports in the block then the smaller 24 stud flat heads.also the heat riser comes up to the intake manifold from the center exhaust port. That could be pretty easily converted into a fourth exhaust port. The front and rear exhaust ports can be shortened pretty easily by making a hole in the front and the rear of the block and hooking the header up there. That should reduce heating. hopefully the problem can be overcome. This engine only needs to run for about three minutes at a time
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 04, 2020, 05:24:57 PM »I would give Ted Eaton a call. He is very innovative and has some real experience with the 239 FH. I don't know if he has ever worked with the 337 though but, he would be the first one that I would ask about this.
https://www.eatonbalancing.com
Ted is now on my list of people call, thanks very much!
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 04, 2020, 05:18:33 PM »I'd reach out to Ron Main and get some ideas from his group. They had 700hp out of ~300cu/in. http://speeddemon.us/flatfire.html
I have seen pictures of the flat fire engine with the heads off. Landy built that engine and he moved all of the ports into the valley. That's more work and it depends on the block than I care to do.
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 04, 2020, 05:15:24 PM »Someone versed in fluid dynamics could probably created a pressure vs flow graph to estimate the point of diminishing returns. The import guys do 40 lb , but that's with a turbo.. A screw or centrifugal type blower should not heat up the air as bad as a rootes type
Royce, do you know someone versed in fluid dynamics who could figure this out for me?
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Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Ideal Flathead combustion chamber shape
« on: November 04, 2020, 05:14:44 PM »My answer would be to do all you can to unshroud the vales and even more important help the exhaust as much as possible. Give it an 8:1 open chamber. 20 psi of boost will cure a lot of design sins.. LOL Find an old guy that runs a blown flathead on nitro.. See what they did..
having boost should eliminate the need for a very high compression ratio. Hopefully 7 1/2 or 821 will not to do occult to achieve.