Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - TimeWarpF100

Pages: 1 ... 38 39 [40] 41 42 ... 46
586
FE Technical Forum / Re: FE Operating Parameters
« on: August 17, 2014, 10:34:53 PM »
This general topic has been previously extensively discussed in several other threads but, rather than come to erroneous conclusions based on other set-ups/experiences, I'm seeking feedback based on my specific application.

Vehicle: 1967 Cyclone

Engine: rebuilt 390 cid (+30, standard stroke) with reconditioned C7AEA heads (standard valve sizing, 3-angle valve seats, hardened exhaust seats, oil restrictors, POP end-stands), 10:1 compression, COMP XE 256 cam (212/219 intake/exhaust duration @ 50, 487/493 intake/exhaust lift), alum C6AZ-9424-H intake, 650 cfm vacuum sec Holley, 7-quart Milodon oil pan, WIX 51773 filter (the big one), Joe Gibb's 'Driven' HR-2 10W-30 oil, rebuilt OEM water pump, original clutch fan and radiator (flushed and pressure tested) w/ 185 degree thermostat (confirmed with the 'boil-in-a-pot-test'); Pertronix 'Igniter II' ignition with Autolite AP45 plugs gapped at .035, total ignition timing 36 degrees all in at 3500 rpm; FPA tri-Ys with 2.5-in H-pipe fitted full-length dual exhaust. 

Engine was broken in last year 'in the car' (20 mins at 3000 rpm no-load) and since then has had about 50 miles of driving on the backstreets of our neighborhood.  The only driven accessory is the alternator.

Drive Train: transmission: C6; rear end: 9-in Traction Lock 3:1 ratio; rear tires: 235/70-15

This morning I took the car out for its first highway run, from our residence to the Norfolk naval base and back on I-64/564.  Total distance is 20 miles driven at between a speedometer-indicated 55mph - 80mph (I haven't yet had a front end alignment done and at about 75mph it shows).  Including a stop in the mall parking lot at the turn-around point to do a chassis and underhood visual check, the trip duration was about 40 mins.  With the out-of-the box carb tune performance is crisp, acceleration is excellent, and it pulls strongly with a nice seat-of-the-pants feel.  (a performance tune on a local chassis dyno is planned later this fall).  Fuel in the 20 gal tank is a 50/50 mix of SUNOCO 100 octane and the local gas station 91 octane premium of undetermined pedigree. There was no pinging/rattling whatsoever. 

Here is what the instruments (both mechanical Auto Meters) indicate:

Water temp (outside temp 88 degrees F, sender located on top front of intake): 205 degrees at highway speed; when stopped at an intersection (in drive, brake on, 800 rpm idle) the temp slowly climbs over 3-4 mins to 220 and then stabiliizes

Oil pressure: on initial start 80 psi for approx 1 min then slowly drops to 30-35 psi at 800 rpm idle; at 55mph (2100 rpm) 45 psi, at 80 mph (3000 rpm) 60 psi.
 
My question: are these numbers typical for a package of the specifications indicated above (should I be happy with them)?

Thanks in advance

Michael

PS: I know, a stroker build was a no-brainer, but this was a 'built-to-budget' project meant as a reliable trouble-free weekend cruiser.  And I already have a street/strip tom-foolery car that my family refuse to ride in (and, therefore, it sits in a barn).

Great looking car!

587
If its sticking up slightly @ TDC do you have a dial indicator to measure that? Do you have a way to measure CC's?

If sticking above deck the best way is to pick a number for piston below deck, I like to use .100 in the hole then measure the cc's
Easy to figure out from there.

Only way to get the proper numbers is to physically measure everything.

I did not catch it but where do you live?


588
Ordered a box of misc mandrel bends in 1 7/8" also.

I will build a set of step headers. Still working on the pipemax program to get me in ballpark on the lengths . . .

Looks like peak HP will be pretty flat around 5200-5800, with peak closer to 5400.

When PipeMax talks about fps on both intake and exhaust how do I convert from Mach? And at what RPM? At the peak HP?

589
At one point I had all this figured out and lost my notes, I decided to go with a higher compression ratio but the numbers do not add up? So here it goes I have a basic 390 block with a 10.17 deck height. Stroke is 4.25,rod 6.7. Piston is a SRP 271155 compression height 1.325 inverted dome -26 dish. I thought originally with a Fel Pro 4.060/ .040 gasket I would be at 10:1 with the Edelbrock head, it looks more like 9.5 which is dismally low? I would like to be at about 11:1,  the hard has a max mill of .060 and I could get a copper gasket I suppose. What do I need to do to acomplish my goal?

What is your deck height with current setup?

What are the CC's of heads? I have seen them all over the map

72cc head

.010 deck height

26 cc dish in piston

4.080 bore
4.25 stroke
head gasket bore of 4.100 and .040" thick
You would be at 9.37 to 1

Same combo zero deck you would be at 9.54
4.400 x .040 gasket would give you 9.43

same setup with a 80cc head would be 8.85 comp

setup as above with stated 72 cc head you would need a dish of only 9.1 cc's to get you 11 to 1

if as above and .010 deck the comp would be 10.77

.020 deck comp 10.55

Just not going to get to 11 to 1 with a 26cc dish

64cc head
zero deck
4.080 bore
4.25 stroke
26 cc dish piston
.020 head gasket
then you are at 10.65

Realistic with a 4.080 bore
4.25 stroke
72 cc head
zero deck
.040 gasket x 4.100
10 cc dish
that would get you 11.04 to 1 comp







590
Member Projects / Re: 7.3 FE Ranger
« on: August 10, 2014, 05:39:06 PM »
Boneyard Ranger?


591
Member Projects / Re: 7.3 FE Ranger
« on: August 10, 2014, 05:35:13 PM »
Cool Project!

Is this the truck its going in?




Looks like an older model JD?

592
Oh Wow!

Ordered the Shoenfeld header parts lunch time on Wednesday. They told me they would be here next wednesday.

Everything showed today, free shipping!

Time to get busy . . .

WIll have to add to the collectors they are 8"

593
Thanks for all your help & input!

Goal was to start on it May 1st. Health said no.

Latest was August 1st but have another vehicle in shop that cannot be left outside. Yeah is a chevy . . . Just dont tell anyone! (not mine)

My exhaust parts should be here by this coming wednesday. Chevy should be picked up by then (stored here)

Then I can get to where the '66 is stored and bring it to shop to start the header~exhaust. I need to pull the front clip to paint the core support as when I moved did some assembly to help eliminate damage going across the country.

Much easier building the headers with the front clip off.

I can then of course add the fresh show chrome Mercury script covers, add brake lines, LARGER fuel line.
Truck Box~Bed is still off so should make for building rest of exhaust much easier.

I need to finish up a bit of grinding~welding on bed~box then I can prime paint and install.

Need to finish up inside cab wiring, add heater assy but its getting close.

Engine has never been fired. Hope its ok as been sitting done since 2009. Truck has been out of sight but not Quite out of mind .. Some times it will go months before I even go take a look at it. Gotta just block it out that I own it as drives me nuts not being able to finish it up.

I am hoping to have it running by September 1st. Gotta sell more stuff to finish it. Maybe the 416 FE . .

594
Ross,
For some reason am having a issue sending docs to your email.

I did look up the Compression stuff & remembered the reason for the .100 down. It was to double check my math as the initial comp came out to 9 to 1
(combustion chamber issue)

The real specs are. (fixed it in program)

A few pics

Final chamber size  74.0 cc

Dish volume   18.0 cc

Head gasket 4.400 bore x .041 compressed

Deck height of .012   

With this info is where I came up with the 10.41 to 1





595
Sure!

My427stang  at cox.net

Tried a few times but keeps bouncing back saying file is too large. Gotta figure out how to make it smaller.
Tried both pdf and JPEG

596
My electronic guessers are saying around 540 hp at 5200 and between 560-580 ft lb at 4200, above 500 from 3000+.  I'd guess those numbers  at the high end, but it should match your desired RPM pretty well.

It's such a unique cam for a 482 I hope you try to use it and see what it does.  The tight LSA should help the torque and make a nasty sounding idle.

I went the other way with my truck 445, about the same .050 duration, lift, and a 104 intake centerline, but spread the centers t0 112 to make it idle smoother.  It runs GREAT and I don't have the headers, intake or head you have.

I know its only bench racing but I have my newest dyno software loaded and the initial info inputs done. Not quite finalized as need to do the compression math part but manually input of actual comp.

Ross, Can I email this info to you to see what your thoughts are?
Now I can mess with all kinds of stuff I could not before.
I have done them before on a earlier version then went to engine dyno then to chassis dyno and found them very very close.

Hopefully I will soon find out. Its fun to mess with if nothing else.
All in all a lot of parameters I can mess with.

I will then go to a chassis dyno to see if numbers are in ball park.

If nothing else it appears the torque will be good for a 3500lb truck!

597
OK, so I read your cam stuff wrong, thanks for clarifying.

With your additional info, I am not sure I would change anything.  If anything, I may just tight lash it.

Here is why.

1 - The lift should do will with your heads and intake
2 - The tight LSA will make a lot of torque and mid range, probably be downright brutal
3 - The advertised duration is a good match and is high enough to carry the power through what you'll be using if for (gears and truck weight)
4 - Its in there already, always easier than changing
5 - DCR is at 8.12, which is about perfect.

I know .050 sounds  low, but I am not sure it would be worth a cam change without going converter/gearing changes, because the rest matches pretty well.  I think I'd run it, it's not like it'll be tough to do a cam change later if you really hated it, its a F-series.  At worst depending on year the grill and radiator has to come out.

That overlap and 10.41 compression should sound like a monster,  should run well on pump gas, and pull hard. Your comment about get in and drive it makes a lot of sense and this will do well

Thanks for your Input!

Its all about the torque for me on this truck. It will seldom see 5-6000 rpm. Typical will be off idle to 3-4000 rpm. If I have to give up a few HP on higher end is ok by me.

I had initially wanted to make 600hp but with the way its setup as long as it has a nice torque band.

Any estimates on HP? TQ?
My Dynomation Software is showing 600 TQ @ 4000 RPM and 580HP @ 5500 RPM
Its showing 40HP gain just in the intake mod.
Software saying 500 TQ will start around 2000rpm.  In the past have found it quite accurate as long as I have accurate inputs.
Shows 500 + TQ from 4000~around 5700

I ordered the newest software and it should be here today. Fun to mess with and will be interesting to compare when I get it on the chassis dyno.

Sound, Torque and drivability are my top 3. Reliable of course too.

I have had enough of the gotta spin a high RPM for power . . . LOL

598
If it was me, me would just get a set of them truck headers Jay used in his book/test.
They made the most power and where the cheapest. :P

I have a set of them but the port is all wrong. I know I could fix it but the collector is in wrong place, pointing in bad direction. Instead of modifying those new 1 3/4" truck headers I will put them on next project a 416 FE into my other daily driver 1966 F100 which will most likely get Jays intake base & who knows . .

By the way Jay never put them on anything larger than the stroker 390 best I can tell. But they did work well on a 425hp engine. I think I will be making a tad more than that. LOL

599
Well, going with a better matching header is good.  I don't think you need a lot of primary pipe, but like Barry said just hit the mark close.  I think I'd go 2 inch if doing all the work.  I don't like those short collectors either, my 445 has them.

As far as the cam, if it's a hydraulic block, you could consider a nice hydraulic roller and just go a little bigger, but you really aren't that far off.  Good breathing heads and intake and plenty of lift will let a cam hang in there a lot longer than if that cam was in an iron head/dual plane and your setup should like more or less what you have now. 

I am not sure what your advertised numbers are but my hunch is the truck would be a little happier on fuel with the current cam straight up (108 ICL) and power would hang in there slightly longer.  Could even run the lash on the tight side, but in the end it doesn't sound too bad to me and would save you money to just rock it back.

Thanks to all for the input!

I had a bone stock medium riser standard bore the only addition was the tunnel wedge and BT BU carbs.

I then sold the NOS BT BU carbs and bought a pair from Barry

Went with a Genesis Block
Barry's CNC'd Edelbrock Heads
4.25 x 4.25 Crank
Diamond Pistons etc
10.41 Comp
And Yeah I did a bit of port work on the NOS Tunnel Wedge Intake Thinking I would pick up worth while power

The cam was for the bone stock 427 so that is why I asked. If I were to change it, now would be the time as I have to pull the front clip to do the headers. (had to assemble so I could move it across country)

Advertised on cam is 288 ~ ~ 292  Lobe lift .340
Lobe Separation 106

It would have worked great probably in the stock bore stock heads 427

I am getting OLD so I wanted something I could just drop in gear and not worry about being too hard to drive.
Tight converter and a 3.50 gear

2" primary is what I ordered in case I want to get a bit more out of it.

I do not see myself going to far from home with this truck. Typical would be 20-25 miles one way tops. Just to a car show, scottsdale pavilions.

My long distance runner~daily driver will be the '66 with the TT 3.5L EcoBoost with a few luxuries.

This 427 truck I may make a few laps at GoodGuys event for giggles but that will be the extent of it.

Would love to drive it or haul it to Knotts show in Cali tho. Never been there but always wanted to go.

Initial plan was to take both trucks to SEMA  . . .

600
How do you intend to use it?  My 445 is pretty similar to that and its good in a 4x4 with an NP435.  If you shifted under 5500, I wouldn't change anything and just buy a set of 1 3/4 off the shelf headers. Although I think that 104 intake is pretty early for so much compression, you may have to roll it back to 108 ICL if its fussy on fuel, it's a decent cam

Otherwise, assuming a rear gear steeper than 3.50, not too much tire and a decent converter, I'd probably shift upwards a little but big single plane and good heads, not sure you need to cam it that much.

My wag would be something around 288 advertised intake, 292 or so exhaust, low 240s for .050, 110 LSA on 106 ICL, keep the lift under .600 for the street.

Hot street, cruise night maybe a trip to the chassis dyno for curiosity sake.

I do have a 3:50 gear. Tires most likely will be the 285-40/18 that I already have. A pretty sticky when warm. Goodyear Supercar Tire Bought them cheap

I will worry about breaking a axle as for now they are stock 28 spline. Just want it to have a bit of rhump to it,

I do have power brakes. Truck will be pretty light for a truck. Expecting 3500lb or less

I do have a set of 1 3/4" truck headers which are new but the ports are pretty far off. I do not like the exit point as too close to crossmemeber. Its been a while since I made a set of headers, one of those things I wanted to build my own. Expecting it to take around 40hrs to do.

I do have a nice Billet converter and its a 2400 unit built for my estimated HP etc

Pages: 1 ... 38 39 [40] 41 42 ... 46