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Messages - YoungOne

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FE Technical Forum / Re: Machine shop around Seattle.
« on: May 16, 2015, 02:52:28 PM »
J thanks a lot its is becoming more of a pain to relocate than I thought

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FE Technical Forum / Machine shop around Seattle.
« on: May 13, 2015, 01:59:14 PM »
OK, thought the Company was sending me home to Portland, Or. but that changed to Seattle, Wa. so can any one tell me of a good machine shop in the area?

Thanks.

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: May 09, 2015, 11:53:06 AM »
Drew, honestly the only reason I was going for the Iron was the price break I saw for all the other hi performance heads and wondered why someone hasn't done it for the FE so far. And yeah 460's blow and I wouldn't want a 600hp 514 for anything ;D so out went the PI's. But and this is a small part of me wanting Iron heads, if the head's would look like factory parts and run better then what we have wouldn't it be cool to pop the hood and watch the jaws drop when they see this "original" FE that just walked by them. However with a price around 1350 for BBM's bare I will have to admit that Iron is very unlikely, so now I have to save everything and get a small bonus at the end of the year so sometime in January of 16 I will have a pair and be running them in a year. 8)

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: May 07, 2015, 05:02:16 PM »
Scotia, you are a sick man. :D If had known that the BBM's were available for 1350 bare you could have saved a lot of  people a lot of typing ::). And yeah  I am up for some horse trading but my stable is a little short right now as I am in the middle of a move. :-\ Thanks for the info

Joe 1700 bucks was to much for me. So I traded 4 sets of heads and one set was D2OE the 460 pi head I got at the Portland swap meet for 50 bucks from a kid who was cleaning out his barn and I horde parts. I didn't need them or want them so it was a good trade. I also traded a CJ short block that I would never build. the total cost to build the motor on my sheet was just at 10k but I got 3500 in trade from all my parts not great but 6500 was a lot easier to come up before kids.

Drew, A long, long, time ago, in 1997 I talked to Jim dove and he was casting the F5WE heads in iron the day we talked, and the price he quoted me for them nearly cost me a lung. But he was is a small boutique caster with at the time a small venue. I agree  that if Survival were to cast an Iron version they would cost more then the alloy which is why I was looking to the larger casters where one part could offset the other. However IF I had known that BBM were available for such a good price bare I would never started this thread. Looks like there in my future any body have an idea what I'll gain over my current build with C1's

Thanks for all the ideas.

PS. I want a 351c with AFD Aussi heads and a Crane f 238 in a 74 mavrick but thats at a much latter date

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: May 06, 2015, 10:30:35 PM »
Drew, From the offset I have wanted to know why there are no new Iron alternative for the FE. When Dart, World, and RHS, along with others volume alloy casters, cast Iron counterparts for there SB Ford, Chevy, Chrysler heads. These are large company's that, as some have stated cast iron to satisfy sanction body's for certain motorsports. However that is not there only market. Many buy them because they work good and do not cost an arm and a leg. I sincerely believe that they could do the same for the FE. However just recasting the C1's I run or C4 's and C'6s others would make no sense. Which is why I asked about a newly designed fast burn FE head one that works good but doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
You run the old Iron? Which? Like I said I run a nice set of Ported C1's, the cost to build is around 1700 from Garrett Machine about the same as the ED's from JEGS but I did it one piece at a time and Mike worked with me. If I had wanted a set of CJ's done up they would have been around 2500 from Mike, or Tom Lucas at FE Specialty's, or a few other builders which is why I did not do a set, and why I wont do a set of BBM's or FElony heads. 2500 is out of my ball park.
Now if you, me, or someone else could pick up a set of new iron that worked somewhere between the FElonies and stock for around 550-600 each bare from a reputable source that would be a good thing all around. Better yet some one who is set up to cast 427 blocks they have the equipment and know how, all they would need is a new design and there are enough people to come up with a new head, not to mention other heads with quality's we could incorporate (Chevy LS platform wasn't the first to have a tall narrow port) If and again it is a big if such a company did they could somewhat offset the cost of the blocks. I think this would be the best option.
So why am I so passionate about this, for Pete's sake we do have a whopping number of 3 company's that make heads for small bore engines. well in the 8 days since this post started there have been 1463 people who have looked at this thread it you take the 38 members who voted so far and quadruple it  that is 152 views that means 1313 people have looked at this thread. That is on average 163 additonal people a day. If (I know another one ;) ) only 5 percent would buy that is 8 people a day that is a  definite market. Even if it was only 1 percent bought a pair a week that is 84 pairs a year x 600 that is 50k in the first year. After that if you want to run the old stuff all the power to you, if you want to run BBM"s or the like, more power to you. I hope you buy FElony and put the money where it should go. For me I would run the fast burn irons for around 1500 +/- a set, get 450+ hp not have to buy race gas to keep from sucking a valve and be more the merrier. 

Chris I looked up the D5tz-6049-a and got a distributor I know the 6049 means a cylinder head but that is what I got.

Qikbbstang, I am not sure but the exhaust port would be critical and making it so vert and horizontal header mounting was possible would help install in the narrower shock tower cars.

BH107, Your right we have quite a few FE heads available, around here the early ones are getting harder to find. Probably because the people you mentioned who are picking them up by the pallet load see a market. Like my dad or older brother who simply want it to run. For them, these are perfect.

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: May 05, 2015, 10:59:14 PM »
Matt we are in the same boat. :( However, there is hope as Jay's survey shows the Iron heads pulling away from the ED'S ;D. Mr. Robotniks and the BBM's will win out I am sure, but that is not where I want to go. Drew if you noticed his post and I am assuming here, but he was referencing an affordable Performance head. NOT a Race head. Mr. Robotnik stated that the ED's at there price point are a good stock replacement, not a race head. Which is why he moved on to his own head. Now I will consed that IF the last year Ford sold the FE format was 2000 this would be a moot discussion. However. when Ford changed castings within the year (Thus the reason for so many different 427 LR castings I.E. C3AE-D, G, H, J) for the FE it was for race development. Now if they had that kept up to this day we would have truly something spectacular and are only getting closer after people like Mr.Robotnik and A.T Francis have pushed the envelope. This is a good thing it has exposed the FE to a new generation.
But the last casting development was finished what 43 years ago? So the young guys have again old iron that while it can be ported to do well would cost as much as the Ed's to run or for a mere $800 more a set of real performers only a weeks pay at 25/hr hope you don't have any bills. If you ask me that sounds unfair. Not to say those that WANT to run the old stuff should buy a set of new Irons nor should those who can afford and want to run the top shelf fell guilty. Rather an in between, a real in between. You mention an affordable 427 block, why? When most of those who buy them expect to pay 5000+ after it is all said and done? It is the accepted going price isn't it? I will tell you why. You don't got it, and you don't want to go and sleeve a used up block just in hopes it will run. But you say with the same breath we don't need something that would make this hobby more affordable to the younger crowd. Or do you like it when the kid down the street dose little more then bolts a $1500 turbo onto his Honda 18b and walks you? Not to mention gets betters gas mileage and can afford to run his "hotrod" and you cant. Well to be honest I boils my buttons and I would rather see him in a Chevy but they too are getting pricey. 
So lets keep this going, how about we step this up and get into a technical discussion. What is wrong with the factory heads? Where are they the strongest and where do they need help? What would you change? Joe-JDC mentioned what he would like to see and I did too. CJ you run the old Iron so you have to have an idea / opinion or two? Mr. Robotnik  (Sorry about the miss spell before I got a hard name as well you should have called me on it I would have understood sorry.) When you see stock heads where do you do the most work? (Not asking for trade secrets.)

Thanks for all the reply's so far and thanks for putting up with me  :) 

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: May 03, 2015, 09:42:46 AM »
CJ. That is what I am trying to do, I have E.mailed a few retailers of FE parts to look in on this debate, and if I can allay some of there fears by having a lively and friendly discussion with the members of this forum such as yourself, and get ones such as Joe-JDC to offer technical information. Along with Mr.Robotnick and Mr. Brown offering there point of view as ones who HAVE introduced new products plus the fact that they 1) Are selling and 2) Making a profit. Then perhaps they will in turn inform there suppliers who in turn might get involved. I think that the FE platform has proven that it is here to stay and that there are people who will do what ever it take to keep it going. The people like Joe, who ports the stuff to Barry who casts and sells it to Jay who finds a small niche part and makes it go, to you and me in a small way who run it and have no qualms about standing up and defending with all we have. So  every on PLEASE keep it coming I will do my best to counter any argument you put before me because it might work and I hope it dose.

On a side note Barry you stated something about one of the fellows at Genesis is making a go could you PM me his info if you have it. Again this is my opinion but I 'think' an affordable Iron head would be just what he would need to keep the bread and butter coming seeing that he cast iron all ready?

lastly how do I add a picture. "DOH!"

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OOPS I brain farted. :o I think it was 40 per hole to port.

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Congrats. Hope it runs and sounds as good as it looks. I love the Merc and old PBF valve covers. Was the intake ported or is it as cast? When I talked to Blair Patrick about a set of BBM's he said he would sell a ported rpm intake to match the ports for around 750 or charge 80 a hole to port it. Just a thought.

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: May 02, 2015, 05:34:15 PM »
Cory, unbeknownst to you, you have made my point. I am the guy who runs with 190 psi cranking pressure, and has to run 25% 110 high lead to keep my heads happy, then when I haven't, I wound up changing head gaskets. But with a set of fast burn heads and a little lower compression I would have better power and not NEED 110 just to go get milk. Your question and Fastbacks comments about the exhaust seat is my other concern, and again the point for a new set of heads. While I now little of the dynamics of an internal combustion engine, I have looked at cross section of a few of the FE heads and think I have come up with some answers. 'If' I could get a set of heads cast I would like to see more material under the exhaust valve like the D2 casting, there is enough meat there to allow for the 1.65 exhaust solving that problem. Also I would like to raise the exhaust port .100 above the early casting like the C1's and C4's as long as the exhaust flange was raised in conjunction. I do not believe this would cause a clearance issue. Then like Joe stated I would like to see the intake floor raised, I am not sure about .400 but maybe .150-.200 above the CJ or med riser floor. Then to complement it lowering the roof of the chamber. Scoot Cook motor sports in Australia is doing some neat things with the Cleveland heads with lowering the roof and I think it could apply to the FE. Lastly and this is the part I am least sure of, is altering the valve angle, 1/2-1 degree as long as it stayed within the sweep of the stock rocker location. Put that into a high swirl double quench chamber and you would really have something.

So feadam can you be put down as one who is for it? than thank you. CJ that's 2 on my side ;D.
 
CJ, Me thinks though doth protest to much. And that deep with in you there is a little gremlin that is rooting for me all the way. ;) Well one cant be to cautious and siding with a crack pot idea might not be in your best interest but thanks I like sparing with you. 
   

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: May 01, 2015, 06:53:37 PM »
sorry guys cant play tonight its family night :'(

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: April 30, 2015, 08:30:18 PM »
Barry Thanks for the response. Please don't think I mean any disrespect to any one on this board with my constant questions. The reason I ask is for the same you and Jay brought your products to market. You both perceived a need, Jay's intake is terrific I saw a PSE at Garrett Machine once when I was visiting and asked about it. All he said was "You don't need that." that was the end of the discussion. So Jay I hope you do well. For my self I must admit there is an amount of emotion behind my drive and honestly it is the reason I hope something comes of this. I want that goofy kid that didn't fit to well in school who works all week and scrounges parts on the week end, and the fellow who has a family to feed to have options other then 40 years old castings, or the high cost of aluminum.
Barry I talked to you once about your head and Mr. Patrick about the BBM's they are just to much, if, I and a lot of others had the where with all perhaps we would not be having this discussion, but then again we probably would. Now as a carpenter I don't do to bad, I love what I do, being able to bring something out of the ground and say "I did that" is one of my greatest pleasures its the bringing something to market part that i share wit both of you. That and a well earned passion for this platform, as I stated it is my elation an escape when life gets a little hard a far better addiction then anything else I can think of. And to be honest this discussion only spurs me on. So let me ask you. 'IF' there was a Iron FE casting that with 2.04 valves flowed like the cj with 2.09 and with the some of the mods Joe mentioned but designed not to go into the 300's fully preped coupled with a fast burn chamber was on the market that you as a dealer could sell for under 2k. And lets say 'Joe blue collar wanted a mild rebuild that wouldn't need premium would you offer it? Or would you prefer to take a set of 40+ year old casting fix the broken exhaust bolts mill the exhaust side down, mill the intake side, replace  guides, seats ect. ect.
Finally to all those who have not yet sided with me yet. you say no but 600 plus looking say maybe. And be honest if you were building old blue to pull your drag car or boat, trailer. would you want a set of heads that made 1000s of horsepower or one's that put the power where you needed it? We both know the answer :)   

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: April 29, 2015, 07:33:39 PM »
RJP, thank you, that is the information I was looking for, and it stands to reason that making a head the sanctioning body would deem unfair would not make sense, but, Pond make a heads that is super stock legal Edelbrock the same and not to mention Dove. As matter of fact Dove did at one time cast the F5WE in iron but no longer. So then there is still the option, with the proviso that they garner a appropriate designation to say they are with boundary's I.E Stock valve location port dimensions and again why not take the C6 head or CJ head and keep there basic layout with a few refinement such a chamber design I believe they would fit right in.
Gentlemen, This has been more enlightening then I expected in such a short time, most of you stating your opinion as to why it wont happen. All I am asking is give it a chance. If I knew how to get a hold of the guys at Dart, World, or RHS' and I mean some one who will listen and not just just blow me off I would carry this to the end. Machoneman you called me determined. THANK YOU! I can not think of a better compliment and yes I will contact BBM. But before I go for the night (gotta help the boy with his model and the girl wants to play catch) let me ask Jay and Mr. Robotnick one question since as most are saying the FE market is full. Why did you do it? Jay, Edelbrock makes a fine intake as do others. And Mr. Robotnick, Edelbrock makes a fine set of heads don't they and Blue Thunder, Pond, Dove do too. So...... Why?

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: April 29, 2015, 02:33:35 PM »
Well this post is two days old and all ready there has been close to 400 views and to be fair this is the premier FE website based mainly on performance and yet people came here to look in hope to learn something new. Agreed I am tilting at windmills but as you can see I am not the only one, and let me lay to rest the assumption that I am market probing. I have NO affiliation with any manufacture unless I have built there buildings. So what would it take to be taken seriously 1000 people interested 10,000 or a 100,000 people? CJ to an extent I agree the new stuff has to be gone through and for that so dose the aluminum so that balances out. The benefit of a modern design and lower price is what I think people would appreciate. Scotia if the Edelbrocks are so good why do people I.E Mr. Robotnick since you use him as a reference replace the valves to 2.20 then the guide to run the 11/32  stems and port them, Keith Kraft when you buy his heads he tries to sell the ported version. The answer is that the Aluminum heads DO NEED work to run. Yes you can bolt on the Edelbrokcs out of the box and get 400 hp you can also do the same with a set of ported Iron or a set of CJ heads but that is not what I am trying to get at. My point is World Products, Dart, and RHS all make a decent performance heads in aluminum and in iron, if there was no market for the irons large company's like them would not sell them, and I believe there is an equally large market in our chosen platform. Don't believe me then help me out to fix my thinking. How about some of you guys post a survey on some of the other boards I tried to get on a few but the time i would have to wait to post is quite long lets see how it turns out.   

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FE Technical Forum / Re: New Iron FE Heads
« on: April 28, 2015, 09:26:39 PM »
Exactly! In your instance I can see that the extra weight would be the primary consideration, where in my situation budget is what is called a major constraint and 200 is a set of decent intake and exhaust valves. Let say the price could be 600 bare, a little trade here and there and within a year I could get a set. We all know how much work has to go into the old stuff which drive up the total cost but new heads do not need as much work especially with fast as cast as they say now days. So now you have 1200 for heads 200 for valves 125 for springs locks retainers from DSC and  a 300 dollar valve job a cartridge roll home port job (One of the old Iron porters could put out a dvd for the DIY crowd for the 2.04 and 2.09 valve with enough left on the table for the 2.15 to be ported professionally to be given with a purchase of a pair heads or sold for 50 bucks think about it) and your down the road with a set of heads that will last longer then your long block for under 2 grand that is a win, win.

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