FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Towd56 on December 25, 2020, 07:42:55 AM
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I am leaning towards using a front plate for the 427 in my Fairlane. It seems most only use the 2 Water pump bolts on each side. I did discover a timing cover from Dove,I believe, that also uses bolts from the timing cover? I can’t find it for sale anywhere though?
Looking for thoughts on just using the water pump bolts and to see if someone has a better idea that would incorporate some additional mounting points .
Any ideas or info on the timing cover is appreciated
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I always use the water pump bolt holes, Dennis. It will be fine.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50077250671_c99962b0b5_z.jpg)
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Brent I do not see a place to mount the smog pump? ;D
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Brent I do not see a place to mount the smog pump? ;D
I'll mount it next to the road draft tube :D
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My project isn't finished but here are my motor plates. I drew them in CAD and had S&W Chassis waterjet them for me. I copied the idea from my buddy Steve McBlane and his '65 Comet NSS. When I finish I probably will make new pieces with the cubic inch waterjet into them. These will probably get buggered up by the time I get to the end of the project. Steve's Comet has a 427 and runs 8.80's so using the water pump studs is working for him.
My mock-up pictures.
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/femtrplt-1.JPG)
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/femtrplt-2.JPG)
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Of course it seems like the 2x 3/8 bolts on each side would be weaker than the 2x 7/16 motor mount bolts, or more, depending on the motor mount, but it is plenty.
Remember that the torsional force will be spread over two sets of mounts now, both the front of the engine and the mid mount. A stock configuration only uses the engine mounts for significant strength in that direction. It'll be plenty strong as said before
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something else for Jay to do ?
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My project isn't finished but here are my motor plates. I drew them in CAD and had S&W Chassis waterjet them for me. I copied the idea from my buddy Steve McBlane and his '65 Comet NSS. When I finish I probably will make new pieces with the cubic inch waterjet into them. These will probably get buggered up by the time I get to the end of the project. Steve's Comet has a 427 and runs 8.80's so using the water pump studs is working for him.
My mock-up pictures.
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/femtrplt-1.JPG)
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/femtrplt-2.JPG)
Those are nice looking Doug. What is your project?
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I've used this style as well on bracket engines.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7809/40271907003_a06178c20d_z.jpg)
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There are a couple other way if you want more strength, you can use a boat front cover with legs that you can cut down to whatever length you need, Nicson, Glenwood etc. There are also some timing covers with the whole lower end being a flat plate, again some boat stuff by H & M, and if you really want strong, there is a cast iron truck cover with the flat plate, you just have to get the right one with the FE-size seal- 330MD IIRC
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Do you have a picture of the plate that you want to use?
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My project isn't finished but here are my motor plates. I drew them in CAD and had S&W Chassis waterjet them for me. I copied the idea from my buddy Steve McBlane and his '65 Comet NSS. When I finish I probably will make new pieces with the cubic inch waterjet into them. These will probably get buggered up by the time I get to the end of the project. Steve's Comet has a 427 and runs 8.80's so using the water pump studs is working for him.
My mock-up pictures.
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/femtrplt-1.JPG)
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/femtrplt-2.JPG)
Those are nice looking Doug. What is your project?
1964 Comet. I haven't done much in the past year. Built a stroker 427 for my '66 Fairlane which took time and financial resources from the Comet project. Gotta pull it back out soon to address a rear main leak. Hoping to get back on it by Feb.
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/Comet.JPG)
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So cool
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Some people have used the extra holes in my timing cover as mounts for a motor plate. There are five 5/16-18 holes available, and they are reinforced in the casting. They weren't really designed for that but some folks apparently have made them work. The timing covers are pretty heavy duty...
http://www.fepower.net/Products/fetc.html
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My set up uses the water pump holes, but I use studs. Not sure if it makes it any stronger, but I made sure the part of the stud where the motor plate sits is full diameter, not threaded. I also have studs through the motor plates for the mount for the vacuum pump and the alternator that thread into the block and head on their respective sides.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cCCnnJzR/6-FE69941-BD97-4273-8-D65-BFE900-BD3-AC0.jpg)
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Looks like serious business there Dennis.
Giddy up!
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Its important that not have any paint on the block under the
plates to get maximal friction and paint will wear down and
loosen the tension from the bolts
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Do you have a picture of the plate that you want to use?
Haven’t got that far
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I would not trust the water pump holes to seal coolant and mount the engine both. I made a plate behind the timing cover and water pump. Uses 11 bolts, including the 7/16" alternator hole. It moves the seal out farther on the spacer and the oil pan front four holes need to be slotted but it won't stress the water pump gaskets.
Here it is partly finished and mounting a block in my 64 Comet, also the one i made in 1983 for my 289 Pinto.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MMcVn7g6/IMG-9402.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMcVn7g6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mPwQJ2Qs/IMG-9404.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPwQJ2Qs)
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I would not trust the water pump holes to seal coolant and mount the engine both. I made a plate behind the timing cover and water pump. Uses 11 bolts, including the 7/16" alternator hole. It moves the seal out farther on the spacer and the oil pan front four holes need to be slotted but it won't stress the water pump gaskets.
Here it is partly finished and mounting a block in my 64 Comet, also the one i made in 1983 for my 289 Pinto.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MMcVn7g6/IMG-9402.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMcVn7g6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mPwQJ2Qs/IMG-9404.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPwQJ2Qs)
It does work fine. Done many by water pump bolts and no leaks or issues.
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts and pictures. Jay - I will have a look at your timing cover also. Hoping to have this in place within the next few weeks.
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I am leaning towards using a front plate for the 427 in my Fairlane. It seems most only use the 2 Water pump bolts on each side. I did discover a timing cover from Dove, I believe, that also uses bolts from the timing cover? I can’t find it for sale anywhere though?
Looking for thoughts on just using the water pump bolts and to see if someone has a better idea that would incorporate some additional mounting points .
Any ideas or info on the timing cover is appreciated
I have a the Dove timing cover that you're talking about. It is a copy of the Ford C7 cast iron cover that the motor mount bolts to the 4 front cover bolts around the crank snout. I also have the cast iron cover too. If you are interested in either you can pm me here.
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Do you guys who are using a front motor plate use a mid plate too or can you get along without one?
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Do you guys who using a front motor plate use a mid plate too or can you get along without one?
You don't have to use a mid plate.
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Do you guys who using a front motor plate use a mid plate too or can you get along without one?
You don't have to use a mid plate.
Brent - current have the two piece front plates, mid-plate, and a factory transmission support on my C4. Do you think I'd be fine removing the mid-plate and just using the front and trans mounts? If no mid-plate, should I add a fore-aft limiter to keep the drivetrain from shifting backwards when launching the car?
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Do you guys who using a front motor plate use a mid plate too or can you get along without one?
You don't have to use a mid plate.
Brent - current have the two piece front plates, mid-plate, and a factory transmission support on my C4. Do you think I'd be fine removing the mid-plate and just using the front and trans mounts? If no mid-plate, should I add a fore-aft limiter to keep the drivetrain from shifting backwards when launching the car?
I've got guys using front engine plates and regular trans mounts. The rule of thumb is that you don't want the trans mount more rigid than the engine mount as the engine will wrap up and the movement will crack the bell or trans case. I've seen this happen with rubber engine mounts (with no viable limiter) and a polyurethane or solid trans mount.
If you're already setup with a front/mid plate combo, I don't think I'd change it.
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S&W Chassis recommended to me to use a mid-plate and limiters. I'm putting tabs on my crossmember below the radiator core support and fastenening to the engine to eliminate fore & aft movement. That's the plan.
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Not sure if it was related, but years ago, I had a 390 in my 64 Falcon, mounted using 2 "ear" style aluminum motor plates using the water pump bolt holes, with studs. I also used a factory rubber transmission mount, and no mid mount. After a while, the C6s bellhousing cracked, as did the flexplate. A chassis guy I know, suggested that the large span between the front of the engine block, to the trans. mount allowed the engine/transmission assembly to sag enough to cause the cracking, and he recommended installing a midplate to give additional support. I never did, as I sold the Falcon as a rolling chassis shortly afterwards. I can say the aluminum plates, with a gasket on either side, with RTV, never had any leak issues.
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Not sure if it was related, but years ago, I had a 390 in my 64 Falcon, mounted using 2 "ear" style aluminum motor plates using the water pump bolt holes, with studs. I also used a factory rubber transmission mount, and no mid mount. After a while, the C6s bellhousing cracked, as did the flexplate. A chassis guy I know, suggested that the large span between the front of the engine block, to the trans. mount allowed the engine/transmission assembly to sag enough to cause the cracking, and he recommended installing a midplate to give additional support. I never did, as I sold the Falcon as a rolling chassis shortly afterwards. I can say the aluminum plates, with a gasket on either side, with RTV, never had any leak issues.
Ford found out with the flathead, that with the front mounts and transmount that it saged enough to decrease bearinglife. So the Y block with front mounts got mounts on the bellhousing. Thats what i read anyway
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On a 59 Corvette I changed the bolts to studs on the front engine mount
The studs were solid where they went through the mounts and were snug in the holes
Stopped water from weeping where the pump bolted on
I figured the slight back and forth movement with the looser bolt threads sheared the gaskets and lost tension as well
Ricky.
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Back some years, when I put the 466 SCJ in my Pinto, I used both a front and mid plate that I got from Jack Roush. Made of 3/8ths aluminum, I set aluminum tubes through the bottom outside corners. I got heavy wall rubber hose with a 1/2 inch ID, and found another piece of hose that the first one would slip into. That whole construct fit into the tubes welded fore-'n'-aft into the plates. Brackets on the frame were placed so as to just have the rubber-lined tubes fit into them with a chunk of tire sidewall in front of, and behind the tube so there was no metal-to-metal contact made by the 1/2-inch bolt.
The two thicknesses of hose made for a bit of 'give' and dampened vibration. Front and mid plates carried the weight of the engine, and with a regular trans-mount for the C6 on a removable crossmember let into the frame, it worked just fine.
I intend to do about the same thing with my present project, when I get to that point.
KS