FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Member Projects => Topic started by: mbrunson427 on May 25, 2020, 06:40:15 PM
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Took the '67 Mustang on a cruise 3 weekends ago, turned the corner and spun it up in 2nd gear, about 4000 rpm and something went wrong. I thought initially that the little Pertonix pickup ring popped up or something, it has happened before. Looked through everything and came up empty handed...got the car towed home. Pulled the valve covers off and noticed that the back two rocker arms were doing nothing at all. Broken cam. All had to come apart.
Got it apart yesterday, here's some pictures.
(https://i.postimg.cc/02tgtJLk/IMG-1881.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://i.postimg.cc/P5Ng05jm/IMG-1990.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HkKqm1YF/IMG-2040.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://i.postimg.cc/VNC3LZ5v/IMG-2041.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1t1bg0NH/IMG-2044.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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The good part about this story is that we have been piecing together a new engine for this car for a while now. Probably about 3 years in the making. We have been carrying on with the "if it's not broken don't fix it" mentality...... but now it's broken. New engine is a standard bore 428, BBM heads, medium riser 2x4 C7ZX intake. Hopefully a nice street engine to replace the 390 that was in it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sgScMkPk/IMG-1926.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://i.postimg.cc/k5myKTfB/IMG-2199.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xvkk89zx/IMG-2344.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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So............that broken cam sure looks like a broken rod! :o
Seriously, what do you think happened? How's the rod journal look? Anything else broken,...that might lead to a diagnosis?
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Ouch!! Hate to see the carnage, but it looks like you had a have a good back up plan.
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So............that broken cam sure looks like a broken rod! :o
Seriously, what do you think happened? How's the rod journal look? Anything else broken,...that might lead to a diagnosis?
I wish I would have snapped a picture of the cam. It has us scratching our heads. Don't really understand it. We inspected the cam to see if the rod swung around and hit it, can't see anywhere it was hit. Broken rod, broken cam, and nothing to really explain it. All the bearings look wonderful. Engine has been together for 19 years, raced by my uncle in his 64 Fairlane for 3 years, then run in the Mustang since then, plenty of good use out of it. Kinda seems like it was just retiring.
Here's what is nuts......ZERO damage to the block. The rod cracked a piece off the piston, but no block damage at all. Very fortunate it didn't leave a window in the block.
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By the way, there was some discussion on here about how REF headers worked with Mustangs that had shock tower reinforcement plates. Had me nervous because we had the REF's in the box already bought and coated. Got out the foam block today and did a mock-up. They fit great. Kind of hard to see in the pictures because they are coated black.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6TskkTkH/IMG-2050.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://i.postimg.cc/7PCfrdv7/IMG-2052.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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So............that broken cam sure looks like a broken rod! :o
Seriously, what do you think happened? How's the rod journal look? Anything else broken,...that might lead to a diagnosis?
I wish I would have snapped a picture of the cam. It has us scratching our heads. Don't really understand it. We inspected the cam to see if the rod swung around and hit it, can't see anywhere it was hit. Broken rod, broken cam, and nothing to really explain it. All the bearings look wonderful. Engine has been together for 19 years, raced by my uncle in his 64 Fairlane for 3 years, then run in the Mustang since then, plenty of good use out of it. Kinda seems like it was just retiring.
Here's what is nuts......ZERO damage to the block. The rod cracked a piece off the piston, but no block damage at all. Very fortunate it didn't leave a window in the block.
Wow, thta is weird. I'd check that piston for topside damage as a potential clue (rod stretched 1st, valves clashed, then the rod broke). Lucky on the block for sure.
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Just from looking at your parts, I would suggest a new set of connecting rods instead of the old Ford parts. Good time for a new stroker kit. Joe-JDC
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Just from looking at your parts, I would suggest a new set of connecting rods instead of the old Ford parts. Good time for a new stroker kit. Joe-JDC
Yes sir, after seeing that stock connecting rod, I'm kind of done with Ford rods. The ones sitting with all the parts now are a nice set of refurbished Le Mans rods with ARP bolts, but I don't feel good about running those anymore.
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The engine is nearing completion, being built at uncle Bob's house. The car is at my place, I'm going to give the engine compartment some TLC and going to fix some under dash gremlins. Just received the carbs back from Drew P, he dialed them in and ran them on his engine so we should have a jump start on tuning it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tRhdkn0c/IMG-2954.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://i.postimg.cc/vHhrFRZL/IMG-2974.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MKq7FZqp/IMG-2979.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://i.postimg.cc/htG9KCJF/IMG-2980.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Engine is painted and close to ready for the run stand.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tCzQLF2C/IMG-3120.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Those headers are crazy looking! Why didn't you go with FPAs?
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Mike, the REF headers are intended for NHRA stock/super stock use, but the guy who builds them does a dang good job. They fit excellent. Little bit of a cost premium compared to other mass produced headers, but the quality is top notch.
My only warning with them: the #5 tube sits real close to the oil filter and for street use requires an oil filter relocation.
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Engine compartment is cleaned up, now for some bolt cleaning and putting parts back into it. Should be ready to receive the engine by this weekend I think.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GpLPP7CF/IMG-3303.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://i.postimg.cc/ydWFtDWW/IMG-3309.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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We got the engine running on the run stand this weekend. It was fairly uneventful, which is good!! The clear valve covers were very nice to have on there.
Don't get to excited about the headers....they are Galaxie headers that we had to flip upside down to make work with the stand. Before we start another engine on there we will make some new stand mounts so they don't interfere. This current setup is perfect if you like to be burnt (ask me how I know ;D )
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Lqqw61S/IMG-3371.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://i.postimg.cc/JhKMnLKv/IMG-3372.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Looks good Mike! You should have flipped the headers forward and told your friends it's going in a V-drive boat ;D
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I didn't realize it, but Haley caught us running the engine. Figured you guys would like to hear it. The rocker arms are always cool to watch.
https://youtu.be/Hx_Hn5I6uLc
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Looks and sounds good! What are all the specs on this one? I must have missed it, other than BBM headed 428 with dual quads :)
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Ross, this engine has a long story......
Originally we had bought a 428 Shelby PI engine that "had dyno time only" on it. Was well detailed and we thought we could just dunk it into the Mustang and move on with life. There was a broken ear on the block when it got here and we started getting a little nervous, tore it apart and looked into it....... come to find out it was a complete hosing that we took. Basically were only able to save the intake,carbs, and crank.
To make this whole the whole thing work out we used a 390 C-scratch block that was on the shelf, had it bored out to standard 4.13" bore. Heads were a local swap meet find, a guy had run the rocker arm bolts down through the ports and got fed up with them, had those holes fixed and they turned out to be a real nice set of heads. Cam came from Dema Elgin, he ground a .618" lift, 224/224 @.050, 112 lobe separation. The cam seems to have real good manners, next time we start the engine I'm going to hook a vacuum gauge to it and see what kind of vacuum it pulls. I told Dema we need vacuum for brakes. Pistons came from Barry about 3 years ago or more, Diamond Pistons, compression works out right around 10.5:1.
We teetered back and forth between running exhaust manifolds on the engine or running headers.....headers won.
We aren't going to dyno it I don't think. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter how much power it makes as long as it is reliable and keeps the Mustang on the road. My guess was upper end of 400 horse? I don't know, what do you think?
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Mike I hope I’m not speaking out of turn for him but Mr. Werby’s Gonkulator seems to love gathering information.
Perhaps he would take your info and give you a number.
I have been thinking about doing that for my CJ Frankenstein build soon as I’m not going to dyno it.
His program gets pretty darn close every time. Seems like a valuable reference tool for us types.
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Another run stand video, this time a lot longer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwqq_Y8sTGQ
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I get to bring this thread back! It's been dead for a while. As with most projects, this one spiraled out of control and became a total drivetrain makeover.
Here's some upgrades we have made which weren't initially part of the plan: Gear vendor toploader trans, EPAS electric power steering, all new return style fuel system from tank to carb, new 3.91 rear end with 31 spline axles.
My grandpa, dad, uncle, and I all got together Saturday and dropped the engine in. Everything went real smooth. Now over the next several weeks we need to get the loose ends buttoned up. The engine has already been run on the run stand (video above), so I hope the startup is fairly uneventful.
(https://i.postimg.cc/y8gytXW4/Progress-7-11-22.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hP3023D1/Progress-7-11-22-4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nhGB6RZW/Progress-7-11-22-9.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YC5zHGm4/Progress-7-11-22-10.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Well we started it this weekend! Everything went very well with the exception of a faulty thermostat.
The carbs are Holley reproduction BK/BJ's. Drew from Air Fuel Spark had warned me that they aren't set up well from Holley (I don't know all the details), so these carbs had been sent to him to get them right. I was very impressed, all we had to do was adjust idle speed. The car started first crank. We fiddled with timing for a couple minutes, but other than that it was very uneventful.
This is the first time we have run a McLeod twin disc clutch. I backed it up and down the driveway a few times to see how the clutch acted. The pedal effort is far easier now and the engagement seems smooth. Very happy with that as well.
A stop by the exhaust shop, a stop by the alignment shop, and the car is ready to cruise again.
(https://i.postimg.cc/26s3NfVz/IMG-3377.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/h4mfbh5h/IMG-3379.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Very nice guys as usual. Let us know how she drives when you get her on the road.
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I got one question on the first motor, what rods were you running?
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Thanks Joe!
I got one question on the first motor, what rods were you running?
They were stock Ford 390GT rods with ARP hardware
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Very nice....wondering about the Epas steering...Thinking of doing it to my 67 Mustang T/A replica.Quick ratio manual is getting a little hard for me and a pump under the hood would destroy the theme..A little help would be nice...how do you like it..
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Very nice....wondering about the Epas steering...Thinking of doing it to my 67 Mustang T/A replica.Quick ratio manual is getting a little hard for me and a pump under the hood would destroy the theme..A little help would be nice...how do you like it..
To be totally honest.....it's a pain in the butt to install. But anything under a Mustang dash is a pain. It becomes very difficult to find a location for the motor of the unit to sit when it's a 4 speed car. All the clutch stuff gets in the way. We found one position where the motor was able to be tucked up underneath the dash and not interfere with the clutch pedal or linkage, this spot required that we cut the air vent. Theres a 2" or 3" wide cut in the plastic that allows the motor to rotate up during installation. If it's a race car and you aren't so concerned about getting the unit out of sight, the installation would be a lot easier to deal with. On an automatic car I can also see the install going much more smoothly.
As far as operation, I'm really happy with it. One of the nice benefits is you don't have to have the engine running for the assist to work, just click the key on and you have assist.
I took this picture right after we got the steering column put back in for the final time. I circled the unit, with the location we found that's how much of it you can see. We were happy with that, doesn't stand out too much.
(https://i.postimg.cc/26D9vWdb/Inked-IMG-2847.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Where to hide the motor was one of my concerns..Car is a 4spd...Happy to hear you like it and that it works good.I read that you can adjust how much assist you get as well....Thank you.....Cory
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Exhaust is done. Car is ready for the road again. From the little bit that we have driven the car around the block so far, we're noticing that the McLeod twin disc clutch is pretty grabby. It's either off, or on. Hoping that it breaks itself in and gets smoother.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BZM7BrnH/IMG-3585.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Looks great!
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Spent Saturday working some bugs out, fixing a couple fuel leaks, figuring out why the brake lights weren't lighting up, etc. My grandpa was at the shop and he was eager to drive it after the kinks were ironed out. I don't think I mentioned this anywhere in this build thread, but this car was purchased by him in 1972. He drove it daily until somewhere around '81 or '82. He's 87 years old now. I was surprised, he got behind the wheel and it seemed like everything came right back to him, had no issues driving it.
I think we're going to change the 4.11 rear gears out for 3.50's or 3.70's. We haven't opened the throttle blades open very wide yet, but it's already obvious with the radial T/A's on there that it's going to turn them to smoke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWn1tm4IdtE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USdS3deCBC4
(https://i.postimg.cc/T3FjRcbx/IMG-5180.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://i.postimg.cc/SK96jzLM/IMG-5181.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Mike - That is pure gold seeing your grandpa back behind the wheel of his car! That made my day :D
Car looks fantastic!
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How cool! Love that he jumped right in.
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Wow go grandpa!!!
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Thanks guys! I think the "project" portion of this is finally over. Seems like it's ready to be enjoyed now.