FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Mach1428cj on March 26, 2020, 01:46:14 PM
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I am new to the posting on this form but have been reading the topics for quit some time. Very interesting and helpful. Thank you. I have been restoring my 69 Mustang and decided to freshen the 428 as long as the car was apart. The crank ended up being in not so great shape it already had been cut .010 and .020 so I decided to go with a Scat crank. I had the machinist repair the oil slinger on the rear of the shaft as it hit the block as indicated by some other forum members. My problem now is the crankshaft throws hit the skirt on the pistons and also there is very little clearance from the crank throw to the bottom of the piston. The pistons are older TRW L2245. What are my options. Different pistons? Unsure what to do.
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Not only can you cut a stock crank to 50/50, you can whack the rod journals down to BBC diameter. Pitch that Scat and put the old one back in.
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Agree with FElony.
Use the original 428 crank 0.030" or more cut would be perfectly fine.
The factory cast cranks are very sturdy and you would not have any clearance issues you are having with the scat crank.
Sell the scat and use the Ford crank.
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I am new to the posting on this form but have been reading the topics for quit some time. Very interesting and helpful. Thank you. I have been restoring my 69 Mustang and decided to freshen the 428 as long as the car was apart. The crank ended up being in not so great shape it already had been cut .010 and .020 so I decided to go with a Scat crank. I had the machinist repair the oil slinger on the rear of the shaft as it hit the block as indicated by some other forum members. My problem now is the crankshaft throws hit the skirt on the pistons and also there is very little clearance from the crank throw to the bottom of the piston. The pistons are older TRW L2245. What are my options. Different pistons? Unsure what to do.
You can have the counterweights cut down.
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I would rather regrind the factory crank than use a scat crank that has issues.
Customer can spend his money fixing the scat crank.
I personally would sell the scat crank before spending any more money to fix it.
Anyhow, just my unprofessional opinion.
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I wouldn't use an old cast crank on anything other than a stock rebuild, you are better off with the Scat crank. I have seen too many cracked stock 428 cranks. Any good crank shop can cut the counterweights, or a better option in my opinion is to go with some aftermarket pistons with a modern ring package. That will free up a little power in addition to solving the interference problem.
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What pistons would you recommend. The car really isn't going to be drove a lot but I would imagine when I do I will want to have a little fun with it. It is a .030 over 428 with a comp 280H cam and Edelbrock heads with a PI intake. I have owned the car since 1981 and thought I would be nice and give it an intire face lift as it used to be my only car . My problem I am not made of money and when this problem came about I felt like throwing in the towel. not really. lol I do want an engine that is dependable as I really don't want to pull the elephant back out again. Ever. That why I am looking to the professionals for options and opinions. Thanks again
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That deal with the oil slinger hitting the block has me nervous. I replaced my ruined OEM 428 crank with a Scat 428 crank in my 427/452 but I didn't specifically check that and it's all together and in the car. I am not sure if I would have noticed something like that or not. I did specifically check the end play and it was ok though. I've ran it and I didn't hear anything bad going on.
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The factory 428 crankshaft - if properly checked - magnaflux and resized will be very capable.
I have beat the crap out of factory cast cranks - zero failures. Even offset ground factory cast cranks.
Sure if you have plenty of $ to spend (as some here do), go ahead and use the scat crank, change pistons etc.....
Good luck with your project! I am sure it will be a fantastic ride when done.
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That deal with the oil slinger hitting the block has me nervous. I replaced my ruined OEM 428 crank with a Scat 428 crank in my 427/452 but I didn't specifically check that and it's all together and in the car. I am not sure if I would have noticed something like that or not. I did specifically check the end play and it was ok though. I've ran it and I didn't hear anything bad going on.
You would have known on mock up. It locks the crank up when you try to turn it.
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That deal with the oil slinger hitting the block has me nervous. I replaced my ruined OEM 428 crank with a Scat 428 crank in my 427/452 but I didn't specifically check that and it's all together and in the car. I am not sure if I would have noticed something like that or not. I did specifically check the end play and it was ok though. I've ran it and I didn't hear anything bad going on.
You would have known on mock up. It locks the crank up when you try to turn it.
Whew! Thanks, Brent!
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What pistons would you recommend. The car really isn't going to be drove a lot but I would imagine when I do I will want to have a little fun with it. It is a .030 over 428 with a comp 280H cam and Edelbrock heads with a PI intake. I have owned the car since 1981 and thought I would be nice and give it an intire face lift as it used to be my only car . My problem I am not made of money and when this problem came about I felt like throwing in the towel. not really. lol I do want an engine that is dependable as I really don't want to pull the elephant back out again. Ever. That why I am looking to the professionals for options and opinions. Thanks again
Lots of options for a 428....Icon, Diamond, Racetec, SRP....
You can count on spending $750-1000 for pistons and rings.
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Slinger is not a real common issue. Appears that they cut that diameter as part of a first operation in machining as it is sometimes off center from everything else.
We have only seen a few touch off on the block out of literally hundreds installed. Pistons and counterweights are a different deal. We saw a run of strokers where that problem popped up, but have not done very many with stock stroke 428 cranks. I would have to imagine that it was from that same run of parts. They had skipped a rough OD turn and it was not easy to identify - I have a dimension here somewhere that can be quickly trimmed to on a lathe - or Scat would probably swap it out if you called them.
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Slinger is not a real common issue. Appears that they cut that diameter as part of a first operation in machining as it is sometimes off center from everything else.
We have only seen a few touch off on the block out of literally hundreds installed. Pistons and counterweights are a different deal. We saw a run of strokers where that problem popped up, but have not done very many with stock stroke 428 cranks. I would have to imagine that it was from that same run of parts. They had skipped a rough OD turn and it was not easy to identify - I have a dimension here somewhere that can be quickly trimmed to on a lathe - or Scat would probably swap it out if you called them.
I've seen the slinger thing several times in the past few months. It was bad enough that I shot my rep an email and they had to go through their stock and fix some before they were able to send them out. I haven't seen the counterweight deal in a long time.
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Stock Ford cast FE, and 428, cranks are good, but they’re not invincible. Don’t get me wrong, I still use my Ford cranks, but like Jay said, the Scat crank is fine too. Barry has commented on the Scat counterweight - piston skirt interference before, so it’s not an unknown issue, Since you have the Scat crank I’d probably consider Barry & Brents advice and look into either an exchange or have your machine shop make the required modifications. Picture of one of my Ford 428 cranks.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLwjRPWX/08-EEFD37-7446-4193-8-CF2-41977-CE08-BC2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MXrc4DZm)
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I have 2 cracked 428 cranks sitting here now. I gave a third one away a couple weeks ago, to a guy who wanted it for mockup purposes. Not saying they aren't tough, but after 50 years and some abuse, I wouldn't trust one...
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The answer here is simple. If the car in question is an actual CJ Mach, then the original crank should go back into the original block and assembled with correct N heads, C intake, cast exhausts and the rest. Take all the aftermarket bits and build a cammed beater engine to stick in a different car. Simple.
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... Picture of one of my Ford 428 cranks.
If I was that rusty and someone dropped me on that concrete, I'd have spinal alignment issues, also.
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That crank broke when it was in the car, thatdarncat's 67 Shelby. It's been sitting around for a while, obviously...
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That crank broke when it was in the car, thatdarncat's 67 Shelby. It's been sitting around for a while, obviously...
You're a shill for Scat, obviously. However, I won't press charges if you hurry up and sell me the red car.
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You're dreamin', buddy ;D Got plans for that one...
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You're dreamin', buddy ;D Got plans for that one...
Don't make me resort to my proven methods.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/201305838489-0-1/s-l1000.jpg (https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/201305838489-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)
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Stock Ford cast FE, and 428, cranks are good, but they’re not invincible. Don’t get me wrong, I still use my Ford cranks, but like Jay said, the Scat crank is fine too. Barry has commented on the Scat counterweight - piston skirt interference before, so it’s not an unknown issue, Since you have the Scat crank I’d probably consider Barry & Brents advice and look into either an exchange or have your machine shop make the required modifications. Picture of one of my Ford 428 cranks.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLwjRPWX/08-EEFD37-7446-4193-8-CF2-41977-CE08-BC2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MXrc4DZm)
I broke a 428 iu crank just like that one. It could pass for mine ..
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Stock Ford cast FE, and 428, cranks are good, but they’re not invincible. Don’t get me wrong, I still use my Ford cranks, but like Jay said, the Scat crank is fine too. Barry has commented on the Scat counterweight - piston skirt interference before, so it’s not an unknown issue, Since you have the Scat crank I’d probably consider Barry & Brents advice and look into either an exchange or have your machine shop make the required modifications. Picture of one of my Ford 428 cranks.
I broke a 428 iu crank just like that one. It could pass for mine ..
Damn, you guys sure like spitting rods and valves out, 'cuz 1U's just don't do that by themselves. 8)
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Stock Ford cast FE, and 428, cranks are good, but they’re not invincible. Don’t get me wrong, I still use my Ford cranks, but like Jay said, the Scat crank is fine too. Barry has commented on the Scat counterweight - piston skirt interference before, so it’s not an unknown issue, Since you have the Scat crank I’d probably consider Barry & Brents advice and look into either an exchange or have your machine shop make the required modifications. Picture of one of my Ford 428 cranks.
I broke a 428 iu crank just like that one. It could pass for mine ..
Damn, you guys sure like spitting rods and valves out, 'cuz 1U's just don't do that by themselves. 8)
Just offhand, I can think of at least 5 forum members who have broken 428 cranks over the years. All drag racing, but that's the caveat of a used crank, you don't know what its been through.
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From our experience over the decades of magnaflux testing of Ford O.E.M. 428 cast iron crankshafts, on what I call "first-go-a-round" (at least it's still standard bearing journal size anyway) with generally typical passenger car use, I'd say about 20% have proven to be failed (cracked)! :o
This being perhaps slightly better than the typical 5.0 S.B.F., but probably the next most likely to prove cracked unit of any in the Ford V8 lineup. ;)
Scott.
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I called Scat and visit with them on my problem. They indicated to me I need to go with a different piston when using this crank as the pin boss is to large on the older stock replacement TRWs. I asked why that wasn't that stated in the description of the crank as it does say stock replacement. Didn't have an answer . He indicated that he could either throw me a deal on pistons or give me a deal on a complete rotating assembly such as a 462 stroker for my trouble. He told me he would give me a complete balanced 462 kit for 1,488.00. Is this the way to go or should I buy pistons and have everything rebalanced and go that way. Sorry for all the questions just don't know which way to go. Is the 462 a good combination for the street also would there be any block mods to do for clearances when using a stroker
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That is an incredible deal on the 462 - I would go that route in a heartbeat.
No special clearance or grinding needed, and extremely street friendly
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^^^ This!
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Green with envy!
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That makes the decision very easy for you at that price.
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I think you already paid about $600 for the Scat crank that is giving you the problem. If they want almost another $1500 for a complete 462 stroker kit that puts you around $2100. That’s about the going rate on the kit so I don’t see a huge savings. I guess you didn’t say if they were letting you keep the crank your having problems with, if they are then it’s not a bad deal.
I also don’t quite buy the deal that aftermarket pistons are required......, 3 years ago I bought a Scat 462 stroker kit that come with Mahle pistons and had the same issue, crankshaft counterweight hitting the piston pin boss. I was working with Barry and he took care of it for me by getting a different crankshaft. Seems Like I still keep hearing about this problem popping up. I think you need to have a heart to heart talk with whoever supplied the crankshaft.
Hang in there and post end result.