FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fairlaniac on September 19, 2019, 06:51:33 PM
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My block is a marine '66 427 C6AE-B. It is a center oiler with annular grooves in cam bearings 2-5. I have the sealed power cam bearings 1445M. Where do I place the hole in the bearing when installing the bearings? I see a couple of different suggestions but nothing consistent. On 2 & 4 do I line it up with the hole up top? The rocker feed? Or hole to mains? What about 3 & 5? I can easily figure #1 out.
Thanks!
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Since you have a center oiler block I would think you should have annular grooves in your block that go around your cam bearings so you won't have to pay attention to the hole position on 2 & 4 like you do on side oilers. Your rockers are connected by way of the annular groove in the block and up thru the head. You will need to place the cam bearing oil hole 2 thru 5 any where between 4 & 6 o:clock to feed the cam journals themselves #1 will have to go straight down to insure oiling to the dist. guide. .....JMO
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Put all the holes down as per #1
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4 O'clock is what is recommended.
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Somewhere I have the 427 factory blueprints that Dave Shoe put online some years ago.
They don't leave anything up to the imagination and show the cam bearing holes down.
Admittedly the blueprints were for the side-oiler but I can't discern any difference between the cam operation of that engine vs. the top-oiler. (I think those 427 blueprints are saved in my old work computer and I can probably dig them up, but maybe someone else has them more readily available)
I have always interpreted that the #1 bearing would only fit one way is the "map" for the rest of them. This logic goes way back and was typical of Ford making parts that should only be installed one way. If you get it wrong the oil pressure suffers, especially at low rpm.
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Doug, do a search on here. I asked the same question early this yr and Captain cobra Jet answered my question. Garry
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Doug, do a search on here. I asked the same question early this yr and Captain cobra Jet answered my question. Garry
I contacted him directly. Thanks to all for taking time to reply.
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I based my statement on Barry's suggestion and the reasoning behind the 4 O'clock positioning by two FE builders. The reason the front cam bearing is at the 6 O'clock position is because the gallery is drilled there. The annular groove goes around the circumference non-solid lifter FE's. The understanding was that the oil film strength was diminished by pressure if they were at 6'O'clock.
-Keith
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I think bearing clearance has an equal role in it. Lots of guys will stick a cam in and if it turns by hand, it's good, even if it's on the tight side. From building engines with extreme valve spring pressure on babbitt bearings (over 1000 lbs open pressure), I will tell you that mic'ing the cam and setting the cam bearing clearances like you would a main/rod bearing makes them survive.
I'm not saying every FE needs .0025" of cam bearing clearance, but I'm saying that if there's not enough oil present for a wedge, it doesn't matter where you clock the bearing.
In addition, every side oiler and aftermarket FE block does just fine with the hole in the 6:00 position. With really high pressure, you can groove the back side of the bearing and clock them, but on "normal" situations, the 6:00 hole does just fine.
On another side note, with the side oiler and aftermarket blocks, where the rockers oil through the pushrods, I will turn the cam bearings 90° on 2 and 4 so that the oil feed to the head is blocked. It's quicker/easier than tapping the feed hole in the block or trying to restrict/block at the cylinder head.
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This brings up a question for me Brent, I hope Doug doesn’t mind me asking. I have an engine that leaks a bit of oil into the coolant. Been running for years like that. I suspect the riser is cracked from cam to head.
It’s not a big deal but it’s annoying and I thought I might pull it down and fix.
I’m a fan of oiling through the pushrods. Would turning 2 and 4 cam bearings and pushrod oiling be a consideration for a fix? I really like the engine.
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This brings up a question for me Brent, I hope Doug doesn’t mind me asking. I have an engine that leaks a bit of oil into the coolant. Been running for years like that. I suspect the riser is cracked from cam to head.
It’s not a big deal but it’s annoying and I thought I might pull it down and fix.
I’m a fan of oiling through the pushrods. Would turning 2 and 4 cam bearings and pushrod oiling be a consideration for a fix? I really like the engine.
You can sleeve the passage if it's indeed leaking from there.
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I have sleeved that passage on a couple of FE's. It was a common enough problem that some rebuilders in the 70's did it to everyone of them. I used a long drill bit and followed with a precision reamer, then a light press .001" interference with a Mickey Thompson Chevy chrome moly pushrod, using "wicking" loctite afterwards. The production engines that I saw looked done like a simple piece of 3/16" brake line.
With a reverse rotation engine, oil holes at 6:00 certainly works fine, I have never seen a problem with that. And Brent is correct about the cam bearing oil clearance, it is a good thing to know. Cam bearings are softer and more forgiving than rods or mains using a much thicker layer of Babbitt, about as close to an old fashion "poured" and "fitted" bearing as we ever see today.
AERA bulletin on the "oil in water" problem;
(https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/563x750/aera_spb_187_1985_pg1_00060_18fca22dccf49f1317b2a6817378931d87ce4d7b.jpg)
(https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/563x750/aera_spb_127_1985_pg3_00059_e7b87d73191007518644fea967df4816f7f20e43.jpg)
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This brings up a question for me Brent, I hope Doug doesn’t mind me asking. I have an engine that leaks a bit of oil into the coolant. Been running for years like that. I suspect the riser is cracked from cam to head.
It’s not a big deal but it’s annoying and I thought I might pull it down and fix.
I’m a fan of oiling through the pushrods. Would turning 2 and 4 cam bearings and pushrod oiling be a consideration for a fix? I really like the engine.
To answer your question Marc, if its a standard FE and not a side oiler, you will still have oil in that passage even if the cam bearings are turned, due to the groove in the cam journal, so that wouldn't solve the problem. If the block is a side oiler, then I think that the solution might be to use standard FE cam bearings in positions 2 and 4, which would block the oil to the feed hole going from the cam journal up to the head. If you did that, and plugged the feed hole at the deck, then that should stop the leak. Oiling through the pushrods would be required in that case.
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Yep, or you can clock the bearings around so that the feed holes are blocked, if it's a side oiler.
If the block has already been sleeved, then I think I would look elsewhere for issues.