FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Nightmist66 on August 30, 2019, 01:15:11 AM
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Speedmaster made pieces. Not sure if it's their usual quality or lack there of, but price is reasonable.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-390-428-6-71-8-71-Blower-Satin-Intake-Manifold/143367502859?hash=item21615e7c0b:g:wOwAAOSwClxdZuas
Edit : Also available is a 2" blower spacer- https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-71-8-71-Blower-Manifold-2-Spacer-Studs-Chevy-SBC-BBC-Ford-SBF-BBF-Mopar/133155933693?hash=item1f00b64dfd:g:Pe0AAOSwB3ddaZk3
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Maybe, not listed on the Speedmaster site so maybe they have it, maybe not. I was willing to try one of the 351C 4V tall intakes but they have been "out of stock" for going on 4 years now. The 351W blower intake looks interesting also LOL. No FE blower intake listed at Jegs either, but the 351W is. And cheaper. No FE listed elsewhere and not under that part number. I'd be a bit surprised if they actually have one of them. I held a pending order open for a year at Jegs for the 351C intake before we gave up on any possible delivery.
https://speedmaster79.com/air-fuel-delivery/intake-manifolds/intake-manifolds-supercharger
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6-71 on your dragster? Cool! 8)
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LOL - that would be cool. The one I was talking about is the Funnelweb knockoff.
https://speedmaster79.com/Ford-302-351C-Cleveland-3V-4V-w-Tongues-Parker-High-Rise-Intake-Manifold-Satin?page=1
I thought at one time I had seen a Speedmaster blower intake for a 351C. That would set people back on their hind legs if I unloaded that at the strip. Hmmmm..Enderle bug catcher and all....hmmmm....sweet dream for sure.
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Yeah but...your addition to a W-headed 351 would nearly mimic the now old AA/Alky dragster of Ken Veney who slayed many a Hemi powered dragster. 'Course a C-Headed engine would be exactly like Veney's Roush supplied Pro Stock engine where he added the 6-71.
https://www.nhra.com/news/2016/ken-veney
p.s. Veney built his 351C blower intake in his shop. Can't say it was home-made since not many years later Veney's own 426 Hemi heads and parts were mandatory to win in Pro Comp and later, Top Fuel.
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It really would be cool if those are truly available. If anyone here gets one, please post that you've received it, and some pictures. Periodically I will get people asking me for a 351C blower intake to go on my intake adapters, so I think there is probably some market for an FE blower intake.
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Just contacted the seller, He says he has some in stock and can ship today.
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That is the only style of FE blower manifold I would be interested in. I have been on a waiting for 5 yrs to get one from Blue Thunder. While I don't really like buying Chinese made products, if it's only game in town...well.
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I got one coming, should be here in about a week. I'll let you guys see it and know what I think.
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p.s. Veney built his 351C blower intake in his shop. Can't say it was home-made since not many years later Veney's own 426 Hemi heads and parts were mandatory to win in Pro Comp and later, Top Fuel.
"After experiencing a series of cylinder-head failures, he created his first pair of billet heads that were essentially hand-carved from scrap aluminum using a Bridgeport machine."
That'll separate the men from the boys. So an hand-hacked blower intake would be not a stretch for someone that could do a cylinder head from a block of aluminum using a Bridgeport.
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It doesn't look like a bad design and doesn't look to be a copy of anyone else's intake either.
There are three different 289-302 blower intakes on that Speedmaster page, the carburetor top plates refer to a 351C and a 460 but they don't list those intakes.
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I got one coming, should be here in about a week. I'll let you guys see it and know what I think.
HELL YESSS!!!! follow up, as soon as I hear your review, if its even just remotely useable, my order is in! WOOHOO!!! So tired of waiting for more BT intakes to be made! WOOHOO!!!!Just made my morning, hell this makes my year!
EDIT: the listing says "2 available/2 sold", hope theres more coming.... :-\
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Glad to hear somebody popped for one, looking forward to your review of the part. Sincerely hope it turns out well.
They only really list a few "real" 351C intakes. There is a "3V" tall single plane that comes in two halves, but it has a 4500 base so no interest to me. They also have a IR intake with throttle bodies for $$$$. And a few others. There is a low profile dual that might make a good cruiser/hood-open-at-car-show intake. No blower. Dyers - $$$ or a full kit for $3750, which seems like a decent deal.
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Man, I am SO pumped about this, I can hardly sit still. ;D I went downstairs and hauled my pulleys and 6-71 out just so I could look at them. ;D I have been slowly accumulating pieces to do this for a few years now, and was really worried about what the hell I was going to do about a manifold. Theres still some stuff I need, an idler pulley, a hub, carb adapter, and a snout, but the manifold was the biggest problem, and I couldn't buy a snout till I had a manifold. The big stumbling block is out of the way and I can move forward now. WOOHOO!
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Mine is en route. I will update if/when it arrives....
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thanks Nightmist/FEkbMax, I should message the vendor and see when he is getting more.
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It doesn't look like a bad design and doesn't look to be a copy of anyone else's intake either.
There are three different 289-302 blower intakes on that Speedmaster page, the carburetor top plates refer to a 351C and a 460 but they don't list those intakes.
Actually, it looks like a real close copy of the Blue Thunder manifold(that I have been waiting for for 5 years) wihich is a copy of the old HM intake, I think. Here is a pic of the BT manifold.
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They had a dual 4bbl top plate for the 351W intake and have wondered how that would run on a 427W with those short looking runners.
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They had a dual 4bbl top plate for the 351W intake and have wondered how that would run on a 427W with those short looking runners.
probably not as good as a 10% over 6-71 and a pair of 950 3bbls.... ;) ;D ;D ;D
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They had a dual 4bbl top plate for the 351W intake and have wondered how that would run on a 427W with those short looking runners.
If I was going to put duals on a 427W, I'd use one of the Holley ram intakes with the dual top. But that's just me LOL. 8)
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Assuming the cheap manifold fit and was not porous, the next thing I'd be concerned is that it put the blower at the correct angle to be parallel to the crank centerline, who knows with cheap parts, although likely easily fixed
In the end though, the intake, even with an expensive setup, is likely the cheapest part of the build, so who knows if it's worth the savings
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They had a dual 4bbl top plate for the 351W intake and have wondered how that would run on a 427W with those short looking runners.
If I was going to put duals on a 427W, I'd use one of the Holley ram intakes with the dual top. But that's just me LOL. 8)
yup, short short runners and HUUUGE plenum area, hard to get excited about that for an N/A application.
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I didn't notice any particular issues putting a tunnel ram on a mild 302 with a huuuuge plenum. ;D Worked just fine. Granted, not everyone's first choice. And not exactly low profile either!
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I didn't notice any particular issues putting a tunnel ram on a mild 302 with a huuuuge plenum. ;D Worked just fine. Granted, not everyone's first choice. And not exactly low profile either!
That intake is not a tunnel ram. Length of the runners is very important.
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I didn't notice any particular issues putting a tunnel ram on a mild 302 with a huuuuge plenum. ;D Worked just fine. Granted, not everyone's first choice. And not exactly low profile either!
The blower intake has considerably more plenum area and shorter runners than your tunnel ram, you are missing my point.
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Apparently. I would assume that in a positive pressure application, plenum and runner length are less critical.
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Apparently. I would assume that in a positive pressure application, plenum and runner length are less critical.
Yes, I think they pretty much cease to be relevant. And the plenum area in a typical blower intake is really huge, way bigger than almost any tunnel ram except possibly a first gen Edelbrock "bread box". And Edelbrock had a 'stuffer" out within 6 months of that intakes release.
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Interesting. The 351C ram I have has the expected large runners but the plenum is a little on the short side, probably in an effort to reduce the volume. The 289 unit has way smaller runners and a bit more height in the plenum, while being overall a smaller unit as you'd expect. I kinda remember the "bread box" - huge looking thing.
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Actually, it looks like a real close copy of the Blue Thunder manifold(that I have been waiting for for 5 years) wihich is a copy of the old HM intake, I think. Here is a pic of the BT manifold.
Just received the intake today. It looks exactly like the BT you pictured. I may post some pics tomorrow.
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Actually, it looks like a real close copy of the Blue Thunder manifold(that I have been waiting for for 5 years) wihich is a copy of the old HM intake, I think. Here is a pic of the BT manifold.
Just received the intake today. It looks exactly like the BT you pictured. I may post some pics tomorrow.
That was pretty quick. I am trying a local connection (he gets me a very good discount), if he cant get them, I will order one from ebay.
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I took some pics of the intake. The intake is a fair quality casting, I'm sure the Blue Thunder is nicer. I think it is good for the price. The machined surfaces are surprisingly flat. I checked them with a precision straight edge. There are a few small scratches in the machined surface, but nothing that would inhibit sealing. Edges need to be deburred better. The distributor hole is chamfered on the bottom side, but not the top where the distributor will drop through. Overall height is 5 1/8". The ports are roughed in. Some need some definite attention to clean the rough casting inside. Pushrod holes are 7/16".
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1Q4mHts/20190904_180808.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RWL94GcY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XvdYskyd/20190904_180818.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lq4SXfD8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/26Y8ML4J/20190904_180831.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QB63WtYk)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6q565sbf/20190904_180903.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/r032QHkD)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1RCscjYb/20190904_180915.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1LMhDvx)
Front and rear bolt hole bosses should be spotfaced.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNnqZfBR/20190904_180926.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8jgqcMPg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gk1p16pD/20190904_180956.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dLRgy3Lk)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RZfmmVVz/20190904_181004.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G4cVJRyM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/B6PkTmLf/20190904_181023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/62wMwLfM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Rhr8XwK6/20190904_181048.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDT3vD6p)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyxPFkfH/20190904_181608.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRwgRVbW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J7JStdCb/20190904_181642.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3W8tc1RR)
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Thanks Nightmist!
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Pretty much what nightmist said. It's nice and flat and straight, really good casting compared to the 351c two piece intake I got from them 3 years ago. I like the rough un finished ports cause honestly with all the heads and port configurations now most any intake you get is gonna need at least port matching. Threads were nice and clean and rolled, not real sharp and jagged like some of there older stuff. My biggest issue is the small pushrod holes but there seems to be plenty of beef to open them up some as long as your careful and go in the right direction. In my opinion it's well worth the money and with a little massaging it will be just fine, beats the hell outa a $1600.oo blue thunder that you can't even get. I'd recommend it as long as you know there will be some massaging.
Ok, now, go ahead, tell me how f**ked up I am for getting speed master equipment. I'm just a poor boy pay check to pay check kinda guy that's not afraid of widdling on stuff. Besides my dad was a TV repairman and had an awesome set of tools, I can fix it..
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An intake in hand is worth ten on back-order. Joe-JDC
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Pretty much what nightmist said. It's nice and flat and straight, really good casting compared to the 351c two piece intake I got from them 3 years ago. I like the rough un finished ports cause honestly with all the heads and port configurations now most any intake you get is gonna need at least port matching. Threads were nice and clean and rolled, not real sharp and jagged like some of there older stuff. My biggest issue is the small pushrod holes but there seems to be plenty of beef to open them up some as long as your careful and go in the right direction. In my opinion it's well worth the money and with a little massaging it will be just fine, beats the hell outa a $1600.oo blue thunder that you can't even get. I'd recommend it as long as you know there will be some massaging.
Ok, now, go ahead, tell me how fucked up I am for getting speed master equipment. I'm just a poor boy pay check to pay check kinda guy that's not afraid of widdling on stuff. Besides my dad was a TV repairman and had an awesome set of tools, I can fix it..
Sounds great, Im in, I will order one in the morning. Been fooling around with making a pattern for the idler bracket, but the std right angle FE water neck is RIGHT where the belt needs to go, so I need a straight water neck. If I have to, I will fabricate one.
An intake in hand is worth ten on back-order. Joe-JDC
Damn straight, this is a godsend. I faced up to the fact a while back that it didn't seem likely that there were going to be more coming from BT, was contemplating making one, was NOT looking forward to that AT ALL. All the guys that would "never buy that Chinese shit" will just have to live with not building blown FE's I guess, personally, I am ECSTATIC to see this part come out, it means I can move forward now.
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I'm curious what you guys are planning (if at all) for crank support? External bearing support system? Are there any pre-engineered solutions for that?
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I'm curious what you guys are planning (if at all) for crank support? External bearing support system? Are there any pre-engineered solutions for that?
Cross-bolted main caps for me. You really don't need to re-invent the wheel here.
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I'm using a fully prepped truck crank and leaving the snout its original size.
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Those scratches on the backside look like box damage, not bad either. The bolt hole tops not having been spot-faced is weird but not a big issue either. I'd ask if the intake has been dry-mounted yet to see how everything lines up.
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Someone asked yesterday on Facebook about the 351W item. I posted a link to the Jegs part and also a link to Dyers kit - $3750 for the 351W kit, not a bad deal overall I think.
We get parts where we get parts. I would buy one of the 351C "4V stuffed port" items if they were available because the real deal rarely shows up anywhere. I'd never rag on anyone trying to stay within their budget either. Could be worse, could be nothing else available. They may be "made in China" but there are some bodys stateside that get something from it - in sales, handling, importing, shipping, etc.
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By "spot faced" do you mean the tops of the intake bolt holes have not been machined to a flat mounting surface?
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By "spot faced" do you mean the tops of the intake bolt holes have not been machined to a flat mounting surface?
Looks like the opposite of flat lol.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MGQrn6G0/3-FBDC974-1-F86-4-E09-BFDB-ECEB548295-B3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/069C3qDr)
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By "spot faced" do you mean the tops of the intake bolt holes have not been machined to a flat mounting surface?
Looks like the opposite of flat lol.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MGQrn6G0/3-FBDC974-1-F86-4-E09-BFDB-ECEB548295-B3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/069C3qDr)
My Streetmaster was like that, I grinded a Mercedes Diesel headbolt to a cutter with the
angle grinder
First i used the cordless drill to drive it, it was to high speed so the alu smeared
I just used a ratchet and a allen bit and spotfaced by hand, quick and easy faster than
riging up it in the mill
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That doesn't look like too bad a piece. It looks like it could be machined for a burst panel.
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I'm using a fully prepped truck crank and leaving the snout its original size.
I am planning on running a 6-71 around 12% over on a 390 crank, how worried should I be about shearing the crank snout off? I wont be running a conventional water pump so I will be running the belt closer to the engine than most guys with a conventional street set-up, I am hoping that will help keep me out of trouble, but has anyone actually had first-hand experience with a sheared off snout on a blown FE?
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how would that intake perform if you put a custom top plate on with (2) 4 barrel carbs or throttle bodies for Fuel Injection?
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Terrible. Very short runners, massive but shallow plenum.
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I'm using a fully prepped truck crank and leaving the snout its original size.
I am planning on running a 6-71 around 12% over on a 390 crank, how worried should I be about shearing the crank snout off? I wont be running a conventional water pump so I will be running the belt closer to the engine than most guys with a conventional street set-up, I am hoping that will help keep me out of trouble, but has anyone actually had first-hand experience with a sheared off snout on a blown FE?
Yeah, sort of.
I sold my Mustang with an 8-71 blown 454. It had a 1U crankshaft and an Electromotive crank trigger ignition. The gentleman who bought it from me said he went to start it one morning and it popped hard out of the blower,then wouldn't start. He sent me a video of the lower blower pulley wiggling around while the motor was cranking.
Now realize this 50 year old crankshaft had been in my supercharged FE for 10 years, and I was not using a harmonic balancer. It was a clean break right behind #1 main. It did no damage to any other components and was rebuilt requiring a new crank and balance.
I felt so bad about it that I bought him a new 3.98 stroke Eagle crank, the only aftermarket choice that had factory rod and main journals. It's been up and running for a while now, it'll be interesting to see how the cast Eagle crank holds up.
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I'm using a fully prepped truck crank and leaving the snout its original size.
I am planning on running a 6-71 around 12% over on a 390 crank, how worried should I be about shearing the crank snout off? I wont be running a conventional water pump so I will be running the belt closer to the engine than most guys with a conventional street set-up, I am hoping that will help keep me out of trouble, but has anyone actually had first-hand experience with a sheared off snout on a blown FE?
Yeah, sort of.
I sold my Mustang with an 8-71 blown 454. It had a 1U crankshaft and an Electromotive crank trigger ignition. The gentleman who bought it from me said he went to start it one morning and it popped hard out of the blower,then wouldn't start. He sent me a video of the lower blower pulley wiggling around while the motor was cranking.
Now realize this 50 year old crankshaft had been in my supercharged FE for 10 years, and I was not using a harmonic balancer. It was a clean break right behind #1 main. It did no damage to any other components and was rebuilt requiring a new crank and balance.
I felt so bad about it that I bought him a new 3.98 stroke Eagle crank, the only aftermarket choice that had factory rod and main journals. It's been up and running for a while now, it'll be interesting to see how the cast Eagle crank holds up.
Well, whats VERY interesting about this, is that it broke BEHIND the #1 main. Legend has it that the long, skinny FE snout is supposed to shear off the end of the crank in a high-boost blown application. This story would indicate that the snout itself is not the weak point. I think a lot of the various stories that go around, about LOTS of things, not just FE cranks, are based more on the way things LOOK, rather than any empirical evidence.
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...various stories that go around, about LOTS of things, not just FE cranks, are based more on the way things LOOK, rather than any empirical evidence.
Unless you can afford professional engineers for failure analysis, it's always going to be that way. Truth is most "mysterious" materials failures are related to harmonics. Very few of us are skilled enough to forensically identify the root cause. Was it the dampener, the timing chain, the camshaft, a axial balance issue or about two dozen other things? Who knows.
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...various stories that go around, about LOTS of things, not just FE cranks, are based more on the way things LOOK, rather than any empirical evidence.
Unless you can afford professional engineers for failure analysis, it's always going to be that way. Truth is most "mysterious" materials failures are related to harmonics. Very few of us are skilled enough to forensically identify the root cause. Was it the dampener, the timing chain, the camshaft, a axial balance issue or about two dozen other things? Who knows.
https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49163&sid=52dbd1148c473c53a53196902fdc244d#p653646
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Has anyone put a blower case on one of these yet? Mine just showed up a couple of hours ago, I dropped my blower on, it looks like the bolt pattern that the case bolts down to is back to front. I have to check with a buddy of mine that builds 6-71s, I think I can swap the rotors end for end in the case when I rebuild it, but otherwise I gotta plug the bolt holes in the manifold and re-drill the pattern!
EDIT: Its all good, I just talked to my guy, when you rebuild a original 6-71 (like mine) you are SUPPOSED to reverse the rotors. WHeeew! Big sigh of relief, I can sleep tonight!
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Just for shits and giggles ordered one of these on black Friday. 330$ free shipping. Showed up today, looks very nice but a couple of very small imperfections as previously reported. I mean cant they take the time and earn that 330 bucks! :o
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Sweet. If the budget wasn't so tight this year I might have bought the 351W intake, just because. ;D I did buy the 1" and 2" "Super Sucker" knock off spacers. Just for fun.
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Probably broke behind the main because that's the weak spot - the place with the smallest overlap cross section. The snout load just gave it enough wobble to accentuate the loads there. I have seen a couple other cast cranks break in that same area on higher power or drag race applications. Forensic work might show some bearing wear or deformation in that front shell, but most guys would just replace the bearings without even bothering to check since the crank was getting swapped out.