FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: happystang on January 11, 2019, 11:58:53 PM
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Okay, for the sake of my sanity, are these hot oil pressure readings normal for a fresh rebuild? I have maybe 200 miles on the motor, I'm using Valvoline 10w40 conventional with a Seal Power standard flow/volume oil pump. The idle is the concern, I feel that 18 PSI is fairly low for a fresh motor? I've read this is normal for FE engines? The block has had the oil pump area enlarged, the rockers are brand new Harland Sharps, using the CJ oil filter adapter, Edelbrock heads with no restrictors, Canton road race pan w/windage tray.
18 PSI @ 750 rpm
50 PSI @ 2000 rpm
55 PSI @ 3000 rpm
Thank you all again for all the help!!
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I'm no FE expert but I just got my fresh 428 going a week ago , with a stock output Melling pump and my hot idle pressure is about 25. so not a huge difference I don't think I'd be very concerned.
Are you confident your gauge is accurate ?
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Almost Identical to my 390
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Low side of normal, but probably within the variable range of the gauge. Normal. Stick a couple .070ish restrictors in the heads and it will gain +/-5 psi at idle if it really bothers you (which it shouldn't...).
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My 428 in my Shelby has the oil feed and gallery modifications. The #70 Holley jet restrictors for the rocker arms. I run about 75 cold idle. Hot idle is about 35.
Hot cruise is about 40-65.
-Keith
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My 427 with a Ford CJ pump and .090 restricters idled at 14psi,45-50 psi going down the road....Never caused me any loss of sleep....
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Plenty of oil pressure to stay alive, but I always like to understand why
Easy to start with a standard oil pump, with anything but standard clearances, you will already start lower. The short gears of a std pump put out less at idle than an HV pump
- What are your bearing clearances? .002-.0025 is good, but also will bleed idle oil pressure compared to the .001 or less minimums for factory FEs, a race build gets looser, bleeds more oil
- Did the builder replace cam bushings? Did they cut the new bushings because the cam wouldn't turn? It works, and effective if the guy is sharp, but in some cases a bearing will get deformed and just cutting can have clearance on the loose side and bleed oil like any other bearing. I try to avoid it
- Do you have new rocker shafts? New rockers with old shafts can bleed pressure, if roller bearing shafts, can bleed pressure too
- Did you verify with another gauge? I have a real nice Snap-on master gauge set and it will make a believe out of you compared to a 1/8 plastic line to a small gauge in both responsiveness and accuracy. Unfortunately the info can make you feel good or worse sometimes LOL
In the end, the numbers you show are fine, but if you don't like it and the oil stays clean, engine stays quiet... restrict a little to the rockers (but don't go crazy they need oil too), try different weights of oil, brands and filters, or throw a high volume pump in at some point if you aren't happy
BTW, an HV oil pump really only adds more oil up to relief spring pressure. After that it just dumps more oil past the bypass. In other words, if you used the bigger HV casting and gears with a STD volume relief, it'd make the same maximum oil pressure but more at idle.
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i had 80 at startup and 50-60 hot on my fresh 428 with stock rockers.i changed to harland sharps and now its 60 ish cold and 30-40 hot and it used to go over 80 at startup but now it might go to 65 for a minute till it starts going down.the tolerances on the hs rockers are different than stock. it defiantly made me lose 10-20.i put my stock rockers back on for fun and it went straight to 80.makes me wonder which rockers i should use.stock rockers with great pressure or my hs roller rockers with ok pressure.
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Welp, bad news. Sounds like there's some rod knock.
Not sure how this could have happened, I think I did everything by the book on my end, there's maybe 200 miles on the motor, used a Motorcraft or Wix filter for oil changes.
Primed the oil system before the first start up
Used the recommended oil and a bottle of ZDDP for start up (Valvoline 10w30) *it's a roller cam*
Changed the oil/filter after 100 miles to Valvoline 10w40
Coolant temps NEVER went past 185*
Oil pump inlet in block enlarged
Canton 8 qt capacity oil pan w/windage tray and matching pickup
Standard volume/pressure oil pump
Beefy oil pump driveshaft
Edelbrock heads
CJ oil filter adapter
New Harland Sharp rockers/shafts
Clevite bearings
The knocking started this morning when driving home on the freeway from a cars and coffee event, the hot idle oil pressure was down to 14 PSI. Going to call the machine shop on Monday and see what they say, they assembled the rotating assembly and did all the measuring for clearances. I'm going to drain the oil later today and see what it looks like, as of now I don't really want to look at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40LtnjhDD3g
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i would look under valve covers first.maybe loose rocker stud or adjuster.also i had a noise like that one time,turned out to be a hole in the headers,they touched in a tight spot near the motor supports vibrated till it made a hole in the pipe
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i agree, i have the same VC's and had to clearance a bit of the inside of the VC to keep a rocker from hitting, it made the same noise
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I would want to learn where the oil holes for the cam bearings were aligned.
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sounds serious to me.
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I know this would be a rookie mistake for most, but is oil gallery plug in place inside the distributor opening? I think over the years we've seen several that have been over-looked by those less than knowledgeable on the FE that caused low oil pressure, especially at lower rpm. If so, and you didn't build the bottom end your shop owns the issue.
-Keith
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Ditto on the galley plug behind distributor hole. Did that once!! Wondered why I couldn't prime it up very well. Pulled front cover and saw the oil gushing out. Oops.
The weird thing was that the 427 in that Willys I worked on was missing TWO valley plugs(front and rear) and ran/survived without issue til we determined something was wrong. Never hurt a thing even though all the oil was getting pump into the valley. Crazy.
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The weird thing was that the 427 in that Willys I worked on was missing TWO valley plugs(front and rear) and ran/survived without issue til we determined something was wrong. Never hurt a thing even though all the oil was getting pump into the valley. Crazy.
If it was a sideoiler block, I could understand why. If a top oiler, I'm amazed it didn't eat up the bearings.
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Sorry to hear that happystang. I have about 22 at idle hot 55-60 cruise and 80 cold. Love my FE but they could be finicky. I really hope its nothing to serious. I wouldnt run it much anymore till you do alittle exploration.
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I feel your pain. 176 miles and had a thin wall rear it's ugly head and coolant in the oil. I had to pull an engine out of the vehicle trying not to damage a 15,000 paint job. #6 had to be sleeved. I cut no corners and even spent the money to have it ran and tuned on a dyno. I hope it doesn't turn out to be a rod, but that sound certainly makes me think it's a rod.
-Keith
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Please note that a bit more idle speed can do wonders for 'idle' pressure. I've never been bothered by an idle speed of about 1000 RPMs.
I starts to annoy me at about 1100. (Come to think of it, I've never had an FE with any less of a cam than a 'Double A'.) I believe that idled at about 850. Try bumping yours up a bit and see if you feel a bit of relief.
KS
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I truly feel for you. I went though a having to pull my engine last month with 176 miles. I had less than two weeks to get it pulled, machined, reassembled and back in to beat open heart surgery. Let us know what you found to be the culprit.
-Keith