FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: blykins on August 07, 2018, 12:23:19 PM
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Building a dyno mule for myself and have an option of going a couple of different directions for data-gathering purposes. What seems the most interesting?
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What data do you propose to gather in dyno testing? Heads vs heads, intakes vs intakes, camshafts vs camshafts, or cubic inches vs cubic inches? That would determine what shortblock to build in my opinion. A good strong shortblock with compression necessary to stress whatever you want to test is a necessity. I found that out when dyno testing heads, intakes, carburetors, headers, etc., on a Y Block build. The shortblock needs to be as strong as the highest horsepower you want to dyno test. Joe-JDC
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Just trying some roads less traveled. Short block is already sorted, cylinder heads/intake/carb is already sorted. Just trying some different cam and valvetrain scenarios.
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Since fewer and fewer people are using flat tappet cams these days, I'm going to vote hydraulic roller. I admit I'm probably going to go that route in future street builds also. I'm still not a fan of hydraulics though.
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lower rpm , maybe 5200 max , good low end , for heavy cars , trucks , maybe tow truck , trucks seem to be getting more and more popular . 50's , 60's and 70's trucks . just thinking out of my head , uh box .
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I think if you could develop a hydraulic roller that could go 7500 RPM's and live well that would be the
best route. No break in etc and not have to fear possible SFT failures due to poor metallurgy or to wrong spring pressures etc.
I just think hydraulic rollers are the future.
Good topic Brent
garyv
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lower rpm , maybe 5200 max , good low end , for heavy cars , trucks , maybe tow truck , trucks seem to be getting more and more popular . 50's , 60's and 70's trucks . just thinking out of my head , uh box .
We have no issues with hydraulic rollers and those rpms. The issue comes with trying to pull "big boy" rpms with them. I've seen some 6500 rpm hydraulic rollers here, but it takes some strategizing to get them to pull on up.
I've actually got the hydraulic roller camshaft here for a higher rpm engine, but wanted to think outside the box a little more.
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"Crower Cycle" was the first thing that popped into my head. Not sure exactly why....
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Just trying some roads less traveled. Short block is already sorted, cylinder heads/intake/carb is already sorted. Just trying some different cam and valvetrain scenarios.
Do both, then, hombre.
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Higher RPM hydro rollers. Seeing what the LS guys are turning, it’s pretty amazing. I know they start with lighter parts but have to be some lessons learned
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another race engine ? I guess that is where the money is at .
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another race engine ? I guess that is where the money is at .
You should know by now there ain't no grassroots in this forum. I mean, why quadruple the membership, right? I mean, we all love seeing engines that show big on the dyno and never see the insides of an engine bay, right? I mean, nobody actually drives an FE hither and thither, right? Daily? Oh, drat and pshaw.
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Probably because he’s already done some
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=5674.0
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=2809.0
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Probably because he’s already done some
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=5674.0
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=2809.0
482's ain't grassroots, chillster. And where's the driving car the 428 went into? Naw, I want to see something like a 390 in a full size car with a stick trans or something.
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Grassroots? Can you explain?
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another race engine ? I guess that is where the money is at .
I would venture to say that most of the "new" stuff has come from the data and R&D from race engines. If you stick with the way Ford did things 50 years ago, there's not much to be learned, but if you try new things, then you see where the envelopes are.
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Large base circle cams, crankshaft windage mitigation, low tension rings...all that stuff wasn't new but it wasn't commonplace in the early 2000s aftermarket and is now in every LS that comes down the line at Chevy.
Brent, is there any room to go larger cam core on an FE? I've never looked them over in that area. Imagine the cost would be rough, but seems the trend is to some pretty extreme cam velocities that are allowing 235*/.650" hydraulic rollers that will spin up to 7k. Bigger cam also means shorter pushrod if my thinking's right, that can't hurt.
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BBF's and FE's already have an advantage on base circle. The cams are pretty large and lots of other engine families would kill to have this size camshaft.
You can go to a larger camshaft, but it would require having the cam tunnel bored. Keep in mind that I'm gonna throw a set of roller cam bearings in this 390 block I have if I go the HR route, but there's a limit to how much more you can take out of the cam tunnel without causing a lot of problems.
The hydraulic roller camshaft I have here is about 20° @ .050" larger than the one you just used for example.
The FE's disadvantage is the valvetrain weight, lifter weight, etc, etc. I have ways around all of that right now, if we go the HR route.
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another race engine ? I guess that is where the money is at .
Dunno about that. The game as it is lies in getting the most out of an old school envelope. The vast majority of what we do - at least at my place - is street builds. Take the old FE and give it all the new stuff - modern ring packs, light pistons, modern chambers and ports, hydraulic roller cams. Still looks FE on the outside but can run alongside anything else now with the benefit of 50 years of technological upgrades.
One I have wanted to do but never found the time to take on would to do a stone stock rebuild, then do one with torque plate, light rings, tight quench, hyd roller, and the rest - - just see what all this stuff is worth without changing the core package. With EMC builds I have been all around the fringes of this but never done a true back to back.
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Hey, while I'm spending Brent's money...
Run something like a 242/250 .650/.650 106LSA hydraulic roller with a set of heads that will support it
Then run a milder 242/250 .575ish 110lsa deal. As I said, trend seeems to be towards more velocity and tighter LSA. I know there are a LOT of generalities and so many approaches of plotting the lobes with LSA as an afterthought and so on...but it would be interesting to see how it moved powerband, how it effects total power, and how they did on valvetrain stability.
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I've tried different LSA's several times with that being the only change. Makes the torque do cool things on most engines and you need the short LSA on some big fat intake port heads....like a TP.
Right now, the mule is gonna be a .010" over 390, with 12:1 Racetec pistons, 1mm rings, Molnar rods, ported CJ heads, a ported Portosonic intake, and a Dominator carb. I'm probably leaning towards the hydrualic roller as the distributor already has a steel gear on it and I already have the camshaft here. But just wanted to feel everyone out.
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Assume the tight LSA gets the big port moving before piston velocity can help it a little?
I think just the fact of doing a stouter 390 is a good step, majority of info I see is street strokers. No ding intended there, I'm looking to do a street 462 so happy to see any info I can get, but it's gotten to be fairly well sorted by now.
Like to see 390 builds that make 550hp and run with the good stroker small block stuff...although if you're putting rods and pistons in it hard to resist throwing a 4.25 crank in while you're at it so not sure how many other people would be interested
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Do both just change cams and valve train and we will all see which is the best bang for the buck.Like Jays intake test.
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Assume the tight LSA gets the big port moving before piston velocity can help it a little?
I think just the fact of doing a stouter 390 is a good step, majority of info I see is street strokers. No ding intended there, I'm looking to do a street 462 so happy to see any info I can get, but it's gotten to be fairly well sorted by now.
Like to see 390 builds that make 550hp and run with the good stroker small block stuff...although if you're putting rods and pistons in it hard to resist throwing a 4.25 crank in while you're at it so not sure how many other people would be interested
Most of the stuff I'm using has been laying around for awhile, so it's not costing me that much.
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Do both just change cams and valve train and we will all see which is the best bang for the buck.Like Jays intake test.
It's not really a bang for the buck sorta test. I can make the same power with either one if I wanted to, but this is mainly to show what's possible with what parts. The high rpm FE hydraulic roller is not the road most traveled, so it would be interesting to play around there.
The solid flat tappet wouldn't be the typical solid flat tappet build, but we would be testing minimum spring pressures with some extremely lightweight valves, which would get us away from some of the higher dollar oiling lifters, break-in dangers, etc.
It's also kind of a pain to do both, not that it can't be done, but it would require spring changes, distributor gear changes, etc, etc. I don't have a lot of R&D time.
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lower rpm , maybe 5200 max , good low end , for heavy cars , trucks , maybe tow truck , trucks seem to be getting more and more popular . 50's , 60's and 70's trucks . just thinking out of my head , uh box .
We have no issues with hydraulic rollers and those rpms. The issue comes with trying to pull "big boy" rpms with them. I've seen some 6500 rpm hydraulic rollers here, but it takes some strategizing to get them to pull on up.
I've actually got the hydraulic roller camshaft here for a higher rpm engine, but wanted to think outside the box a little more.
Brent,
The .750" wheel More stuff will go to 7500 rpm or better and not nose over, but as you have hinted to it takes the supporting cast of larger diameter pushrods, spring rates, and lightweight parts to assist this. Now going with 6085 Morel with the .810", one can exceed the 8000 rpm range if the choose.
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The FE's disadvantage is the valvetrain weight, lifter weight, etc, etc. I have ways around all of that right now, if we go the HR route.
Just trying to learn here. Aren't most hydraulic rollers of the same basic design? What makes the FE different or heavier? Is titanium a no-no on pushrods? Conical springs, titanium valves and retainers should get the FE valvetrain down to manageable weights, but I realize you're talking about expensive parts. Not many people have titanium valves just "laying around" ;)
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The FE's disadvantage is the valvetrain weight, lifter weight, etc, etc. I have ways around all of that right now, if we go the HR route.
Just trying to learn here. Aren't most hydraulic rollers of the same basic design? What makes the FE different or heavier? Is titanium a no-no on pushrods? Conical springs, titanium valves and retainers should get the FE valvetrain down to manageable weights, but I realize you're talking about expensive parts. Not many people have titanium valves just "laying around" ;)
Many FE's have 3/8" stem valves, a lot of the time with 2.190"-2.250" heads, a larger diameter .875" lifter, etc. Pushrod weight is generally considered a "neutral zone", that doesn't affect valvetrain performance.
Rocker arm weight comes into play, as well as the design/weight of the springs/retainers/etc.
Shedding weight on the valvetrain goes a long way. A lot of Cup engines run non-adjustable rockers with very light valves and will see 9000+ rpm with a solid roller camshaft, using ~400 lb open pressure valve springs.
I love higher rpm stuff and we generally see "typical" FE hydraulic roller stuff making peak hp around 6000-6200, or maybe a little higher if we use some factory non-adjustables, etc. I'd like to make one scream.
I've got some parts here that I think will do pretty well.
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I vote for the solid flat tappet. A 12:1 high rpm 390 just screams old school. So a well thought out flat tappet would fit the package, in my opinion. Save the hydraulic roller for the new school 445's and 482's.
JMO,
paulie
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I'm with Paulie on the solid flat tappet 12.5 390 with no wives for drivers hyd , cough , real manly stuff ..lol
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Brent, if you bore the cam tunnel in a topoiler style block, you should look at making the oil groove deeper. I usually make them 427 size and depth when we bore the tunnel because you have to fix the groove anyway. Some 390 blocks have a very shallow groove even before boring the tunnel. There are 60mm babbit bearings for the 2.500 bore.
I turned one of those "dueling 390" hydraulic rollers 7500 on hydraulic rollers just to see if it would go there. Peak power was at 7000, but it did not float at 7500. Ford non-adjustable, conical spring, 11/32 valves. 240/248 at .050........it is doable.
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Will do.
Running 7mm and 5/16" stem valves here.
It may just work.....
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Hydraulic lifters are for girls. 8)
Tommy
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I vote the flat tappet for only one simple reason. Class rules, some groups do not allow a roller cam unless factory equipped.
In the near future I hope to start assembly on just such an engine for a pulling truck. Blair has a set of heads with my name on them for just such an application. But granted I am the minority.
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Hydraulic lifters are for girls. 8)
Tommy
You sold all your shit, so go to the back of the line, pussy.
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Grassroots? Can you explain?
Every time I have brought up something along the lines of DIY grassroots, you have shot it down. Not wasting my time again.
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I vote for the solid flat tappet. A 12:1 high rpm 390 just screams old school.
If you can wait just a lil longer.......... :)
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In another post or two Felony will be telling you to run flat solids on one side the block and rollers on the other side of the same block.
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I vote for the solid flat tappet. A 12:1 high rpm 390 just screams old school.
If you can wait just a lil longer.......... :)
Cool! I can't wait to hear about it.
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I mean, we all love seeing engines that show big on the dyno and never see the insides of an engine bay, right? I mean, nobody actually drives an FE hither and thither, right? Daily? Oh, drat and pshaw.
I don’t own a vehicle without an fe. So yes, daily driven.
Let’s see yours. Otherwise get to the back of the line felony.
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Vote for high rolling hydro roller. Bring it on. JB
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Hydraulic lifters are for girls. 8)
Tommy
You sold all your shit, so go to the back of the line, pussy.
While it is true that I sold my Thunderbird & Mustang, I am actively building a 427 stroker (with a solid flat tappet cam) for my '65 Cyclone. That fact was included in the post where I revealed that I did sell those 2 cars.
Never let a snarky reply get in the way of the facts.
Pussy, indeed.
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I don’t own a vehicle without an fe. So yes, daily driven.
Let’s see yours. Otherwise get to the back of the line felony.
That alone is pretty cool, Drew. I've got 5 licensed and insured vehicles that I alone drive, 3 of which are FE powered, and I'm about to add a 4th to that FE list. One of those 6 is about to get parked permanently, and it ain't one of the FE ones, so yes, driven ALMOST daily.
While it is true that I sold my Thunderbird & Mustang, I am actively building a 427 stroker (with a solid flat tappet cam) for my '65 Cyclone. That fact was included in the post where I revealed that I did sell those 2 cars.
You should post about that, Tommy. I'd love to hear more about it.
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So much more fun being a bad guy instead of a good guy.
On a serious note, I like Barry Ratrodnick's second paragraph in post #18.
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I don’t own a vehicle without an fe. So yes, daily driven.
Let’s see yours. Otherwise get to the back of the line felony.
That alone is pretty cool, Drew. I've got 5 licensed and insured vehicles that I alone drive, 3 of which are FE powered, and I'm about to add a 4th to that FE list. One of those 6 is about to get parked permanently, and it ain't one of the FE ones, so yes, driven ALMOST daily.
While it is true that I sold my Thunderbird & Mustang, I am actively building a 427 stroker (with a solid flat tappet cam) for my '65 Cyclone. That fact was included in the post where I revealed that I did sell those 2 cars.
You should post about that, Tommy. I'd love to hear more about it.
Doug,
You can follow the build in the Members Projects section of the FE Forum.
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i could never afford a roller cam setup. You guys must be making disposable incomes.
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I mean, we all love seeing engines that show big on the dyno and never see the insides of an engine bay, right? I mean, nobody actually drives an FE hither and thither, right? Daily? Oh, drat and pshaw.
I don’t own a vehicle without an fe. So yes, daily driven.
Let’s see yours. Otherwise get to the back of the line felony.
I DD my galaxie now. With solid flat tappets and going to continue till the snow come
if it wasnt for the Salt Nazis i would drive it year around
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I daily my Falcon too, solid cam, efi tunnel ram 4 speed and pretty decent gas milage for a 3400lb car with 3.70 gears in the rear.
my cam is pretty radical but would like to try a more raunchy solid cam that can handle the efi requirements
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Honestly surprised the vote is that close. Figured it would be heavily one sided for the roller. Good topic Brent.
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How many RPM's can you turn with a Hydraulic Flat Tappet ?? I'm guessing it's tougher than the Hydro roller ?
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How many RPM's can you turn with a Hydraulic Flat Tappet ?? I'm guessing it's tougher than the Hydro roller ?
8200+ for non-pump-ups in a small block. They make them for FE's. No self-respecting old school guy puts a roller in anything. Extra weight, extra cost, extra internal parts floating around the oil circuit. Yecch. Rollers put you to the back of the line. Grassroots rule.
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thank you Brent for putting up with us .
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How many RPM's can you turn with a Hydraulic Flat Tappet ?? I'm guessing it's tougher than the Hydro roller ?
8200+ for non-pump-ups in a small block. They make them for FE's. No self-respecting old school guy puts a roller in anything. Extra weight, extra cost, extra internal parts floating around the oil circuit. Yecch. Rollers put you to the back of the line. Grassroots rule.
I was just about to kick you in the ovaries and you go and say something sweet like that.
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I'm with 62Falcon, Cost is important to me.
I'd rather go into better heads, pistons and intake rather than a roller cam since my engines might never get above 6500 rpm (mostly street driven)
Richard >>> FERoadster
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How many RPM's can you turn with a Hydraulic Flat Tappet ?? I'm guessing it's tougher than the Hydro roller ?
8200+ for non-pump-ups in a small block. They make them for FE's. No self-respecting old school guy puts a roller in anything. Extra weight, extra cost, extra internal parts floating around the oil circuit. Yecch. Rollers put you to the back of the line. Grassroots rule.
I was just about to kick you in the ovaries and you go and say something sweet like that.
Good thing you didn't kick me. It's that time of the month and I might have thrown the Mother of all Hissies.
Seriously, though, why has nobody in this or the other forum ever installed zero-preload anti-pumps on an FE and let her rip?
In my Pile 'o Stuff is a box of new old-school Johnson solid lifters manufactured in the 90's that I bought off eBay a few years back. How many in that box? One hundred and thirty-six of them. If that doesn't tell you what my Man Card is made of, nothing will. 'Cuz that's how I roll. 8)
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thank you Brent for putting up with us .
I have a reliable source (Russian spy) that has hidden video of Brent whacking himself upside the head with a cinder block every time I post. Also video of Jay Brown salivating and giggling with his mouse cursor poised over the "Delete Account" selection.
Look, I get it. If you are in the business, it makes good sense to R&D new parts and combos. In this case, again, one result means little without comparison to another result. Just do them both and write off "both" engines [cough] as business expenses. Asking us to choose one ahead of time is going to divide the camp, OF COURSE. And, it opens a door that is just irresistible to certain types of mentally dislodged persons [another cough].
Soldier on.
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My intent wasn't to divide the camp, but to be honest, I was torn myself. I don't have million dollar R&D budgets, nor do I have time to build and dyno my own junk very often, so I needed some direction.
The appeal of the high rpm hydraulic roller is just to push the envelope. Lots of guys have done 7000-7500 solid flat tappet 390's, but I see a lot of LS/Gen 3 Hemi/etc. hydraulic roller camshafts turning some pretty high revs without issue. That appeals to me and intrigues me.
The appeal of the solid flat tappet is to use some non-standard parts. Not necessarily expensive parts, but parts that you normally wouldn't see with a solid flattie. If I went that direction, it would be to try and minimize necessary valve spring pressures, break-in procedures, etc. Just kind of a "stick it in and go" and make big power.
If I understand what your "grassroots" definition is, you'll be happy with either direction that I go, because I'm using some parts that have been borrowed from other engine families, along with some thinking outside the box.
Four more days to go on the poll and the gap seems to be closing. Like I said, I'm torn, so I will listen to what intrigues the majority of the members.
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Seriously, though, why has nobody in this or the other forum ever installed zero-preload anti-pumps on an FE and let her rip?
In my Pile 'o Stuff is a box of new old-school Johnson solid lifters manufactured in the 90's that I bought off eBay a few years back. How many in that box? One hundred and thirty-six of them. If that doesn't tell you what my Man Card is made of, nothing will. 'Cuz that's how I roll. 8)
I did that hydraulic test on my own stuff in 1980 or so. Before you and Al teamed up to invent the big internet. Zero preload turn out to be the wrong answer. Entrained air in the oil makes for squishy fluid that lets lift and control go away. Now take and set them at maximum preload, stuff the lifter full of something solid to limit travel, and you've a working deal in a rules limits environment. Or go solid flat which indeed rocks.
That tray of old Johnson solids is worth keeping and using. Thought they were 128 per tray - might still have a box or two laying around for personal use. Made back when companies gave a damn about quality. Before we fired all the engineers and replaced them with purchasing execs and marketing specialists in an effort to convince us that the cheaper parts were the better they were for us. Before the environmental nutcases took all the good chemicals out of everything. Don't matter whether its cleaning parts or flushing the pot - they made us use three times as much of stuff that don't work to get a simple job done.
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FWIW I voted for the solid lifter as everything I have outside of dead stock driver gets a solid flattappet or solid roller. Even an old inliner has to have that sound to it or it isn't cool as far as I'm concerned.
Thinking about current trends though I feel the hydraulic roller is the more pertinent use of your efforts. Most of us true "old school" fans are thinning out and those who remain will generally look to parts we are familiar with. I just feel you'd have a larger audience vs the solid lifter stuff I'd personally have more interest in seeing.
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Barry , you have a way of cutting through the fat to get to the meat , I agree with what you say , thanks . amen .
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At the usual risk of displaying my lack of experience, I voted for a roller because my understanding of the difference between flat tappets and rollers in terms of performance was that a roller gave more options in terms of cam profile and therefor manipulating the shape of the torque curve, but at the cost of a heavier valve train resulting in a lower maximum RPM.
In a world with 10 speed automatic transmissions, torque curve width is less critical, but when you are driving a 4 or 6 speed manual under road (not 1/4 mile) conditions, being able to hold a gear longer because the engine isn't out of RPMs makes it possible to wring more out of the combination. My old 410 with an RV cam died at 4,500 RPM, with farmer 4 speed (meaning a 3 speed), it meant almost always being in the wrong gear.
My current build gets me to 6,000 before it is spent, and that means nicer behaviour entering the freeway. Getting it to 7,000 would be really nice.
Brent, you have to ask, why are you doing R&D? Is it to allow better affordable builds, or get the most you can from the engine? I know a lot of people will say it is elitist to do an expensive build, but isn't that another word for trying to excel?
Now if I'm wrong about the fundamental understanding about the cross over of advantage and disadvantage of roller vs flat tappet, my point resolves down to do the thing that pushes the limits you care about.
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Brent, you have to ask, why are you doing R&D? Is it to allow better affordable builds, or get the most you can from the engine?
Just to try different things or new things.
In this case, I want to see how high we can go on a hydraulic roller.....and try out some new parts, which I hope to showcase later on.
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If I understand what your "grassroots" definition is, you'll be happy with either direction that I go, because I'm using some parts that have been borrowed from other engine families, along with some thinking outside the box.
My grassroots view is an extreme minority here. The short version is that I would rather build three loose beater engines with cheap/used parts than one high-buck mill that I'm paranoid about injuring. Rotate those thrashers in a light car with too much gear (face it, your wonder motor with 3.50's ain't gonna beat my grenade with 4.88's) and go get crazy. Kaboom? No problem. Next engine, step right up.
As for cam break-ins... anyone here remember Earl Varner from up in Lake Havasu? He used to post a fair bit here and there in the N54 forum. He was an engine builder (retired now) that built an absolute ton of Fords for both rodders and lakesters. Earl was vastly unknown/underrated. I used to yak on the phone with him about once a month. One of our favorite topics was all the mistakes DIY-ers make putting engines together that frig cam lobes, but they always blame the cam or the lifter or the oil. What I think would benefit this group is an ABC how-to VIDEO zeroing in on this stuff. That way, a guy is not pushed into a roller when he may not really want one. The amount of fear amongst grassroots people is embarrassing.
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Seriously, though, why has nobody in this or the other forum ever installed zero-preload anti-pumps on an FE and let her rip?
In my Pile 'o Stuff is a box of new old-school Johnson solid lifters manufactured in the 90's that I bought off eBay a few years back. How many in that box? One hundred and thirty-six of them. If that doesn't tell you what my Man Card is made of, nothing will. 'Cuz that's how I roll. 8)
I did that hydraulic test on my own stuff in 1980 or so. Before you and Al teamed up to invent the big internet. Zero preload turn out to be the wrong answer. Entrained air in the oil makes for squishy fluid that lets lift and control go away. Now take and set them at maximum preload, stuff the lifter full of something solid to limit travel, and you've a working deal in a rules limits environment. Or go solid flat which indeed rocks.
What is this "rules" you speak of? As mentioned, I ran my SBF's into the stratosphere many many times with zero probs. I have FE Anti's in a box now that I bought from Dennis at DSC. He told me zero preload.
There is absolutely no doubt that Gore was instrumental in opening doors via legislation and funding for programs that eventually expanded into the Net as we know it. By its nature, there could not have been a singular "inventor". So there ya go. Should he be tied to a bumper and dragged anyway? Sure, why not.
That tray of old Johnson solids is worth keeping and using. Thought they were 128 per tray - might still have a box or two laying around for personal use. Made back when companies gave a damn about quality. Before we fired all the engineers and replaced them with purchasing execs and marketing specialists in an effort to convince us that the cheaper parts were the better they were for us. Before the environmental nutcases took all the good chemicals out of everything. Don't matter whether its cleaning parts or flushing the pot - they made us use three times as much of stuff that don't work to get a simple job done.
Yes, they are in a Federal Mogul 128-piece box. Seller gave me the extra 8 for giggles, I guess. They will come in handy when I build that half-roller, half-flat tappet
motor that babybolt predicted I would suggest.
I have a bunch of Johnson juicers, too. I will decline to guess how many so Tommy -T doesn't take a machete to my aforementioned Man Card. Johnson appears to have made a comeback in cahoots with Elgin, but I don't have any details. You?
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Johnson was a great company that met a very "checkered" fate. Originally (or previously - I aint looking it up) owned by Sealed Power, they were the top shelf lifter manufacturer for decades. If you look at your's you will see that several from every tray were hardness checked during manufacture - they will have a pip mark from the brinnell tester. When business dropped off in the 1990s the company fell on hard times and was acquired for a song by a minority ownership group that really lacked the finances or skills to run it. After it was pretty much toast the rights and legacy were then acquired by the owner of Topline - an outfit that was a big player in the imported parts business. They rebooted the company and built a new factory in the US to build them.
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So there I was last might at the local watering hole, trying yet again to capture the eye of any desperate ho out for a really cheap thrill. I've been tuning up my old 70's Disco moves big time, so no way I could fail. Confidence bristling from every pore, I ignored everyone at the bar simultaneously face-palming when I cued up "Funkytown" by Lipps, Inc. and hit the floor in my platform shoes. What a vision of studliness I was. Ya should seen me thrown down, bruthuhs.
So there was a group of somber-looking gents in the corner. I thought I'd boogie on over and cheer them up. I slid across the floor, launched in the air, executed a one-and-a-half reverse twist, misjudged the landing (been awhile, you know), and crashed onto their table. Soy latte and glass everywhere. They pissed? You bet.
You can imagine the horror I felt when I was informed that I had just broken up the monthly meeting of Roller Cams Matter, an activist group dedicated to the freedom to choose any lobe profile a person wants , as long as it doesn't involve a flat tappet. There I was...clowns to the left of me...jokers to the right...and me stuck in the middle wearing bell bottoms and a Muff Diver t-shirt.
My attempt to slide my soy-soaked butt off the table and sprint to safety was for naught. Dudes pulled shiny roller cams from their George Soros Signature Series back packs and proceeded to pound me into Kibbles 'N' Bits. Mostly Bits. Dee Dee the waitress saved me from final destination by coming over and unleashing her massive mammaries from their over-stressed restraint apparatus. Since none of the Roller Cam Matters guys had ever actually seen real live boobsicles before, the distraction allowed me to make a blood-soaked getaway.
I suppose it could have been worse. Or that's what I told myself this morning, curled up in a fetal position clutching my box of Johnson flat tappets. There's one of me and only ten of them, so next time I'm catapulting into their chucklefest wearing my roller skates. They have no chance. I'm gonna jam Isky Rev-Lube down their throats until they puke. Just you wait and see. Maybe I'll keep some of the Lube for Dee Dee. She deserves it.
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OMG... I was at my favorite morning coffee watering hole just this morning and there was a group of local chevy guys in the corner discussing how to rebuild a blowed-up BBC one of the guys have. The subject of the cam came up, & I divulged that I have an Isky EE-399 cam I have been saving for years just for a special occasion. All three simultaneously drenched me in Tasters Choice. I had no idea they were members of Roller Cams Matter, but now it makes sense.
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Hey, I only voted for the flat tappet deal to see how well the non-adjustable rocker/correct p-rod length would do. Heck, most of us grew up pitching the non-adjustable rockers on all kinds of Detroit iron, only now to find out the generally lighter rockers apparently perform well. That and we all seem to know (now at least!) a heavy valvetrain even in streetable engines with hydro rollers does limit rpms....a lot!
Maybe we'll get to see the rpm limits of a light roller lifter, strong but light p-rods, button retainers (steel or tit.), small diameter stemmed valves and non-adjustable rockers. Would be cool...... 8)
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Yeah yeah, anybody willing to bush the FE block for a smaller/lighter late model lifter could truly expand upon the limitations of a factory FE design, if pitched a hydraulic roller.
Reading between the lines, the primary innovator amongst FE builders in this field seems to have lost interest somewhat over the past 5ish years - I bet that wasn't a random conclusion. Careful choice of springs and small stem valves wouldn't hurt - especially when you're just bored/looking to prove you can. Eventually, I would certainly appreciate that particular test and your efforts to provide it to the rest of us... But... All told, I can't see the market for that sort of deal being terribly vast, given the cost primarily, but also the known limitations of factory blocks as far as RPM is concerned - this is especially true for modern stroker kits. Not exactly uncommon. I'm not a professional machinist, nor am I pretending to be.... But I have a shnat ton of experience with various engine platforms. 1000% shooting from the hip here, but perhaps an educated guess, on your direction and parts selection to hit 7500 on hyd roller. I voted solid flat tappet for a reason. I'm but 33 years old, yet the FE is my favorite engine platform of all time. I guess you could say I have a sentimental attachment to things I may not have been present for, but still appreciate. I also feel the market for such a thing would be far greater given you gave the heads the same sort of detailed treatment, but skipped bushed lifter bores. Light weight springs and valves are going to extend intervals between valve lash throw downs, and reduce lifter failure, duh. I think more folks would be interested in them if you could put some data in front of them. There are more of "us" interested in keeping it old school but still tearing some ass up between stoplights - on a budget - than there are in canted valve billet headed 540 cube fuck-boy combos that drop 35k on a long block but still want the "street manners" internet folklore has promised them from a hyd roller.
Either way. I greatly appreciate appreciate the handful of you guys still looking to innovate and get outside the paradigms. In my opinion, the FE platform has lurched forward more in the past 5-8 years, than any other. I get kinda pissed when I compare our very best aftermarket block offering to a factory LS iron block. I'll probably never build another one after this one for that reason. I want 2500 hp, and an inspection sticker. (next build). I can do that with any number of engine platforms, just not the one I love the most. It sucks. Keep pushing, Mr. Lykins. Maybe the parts will be there when I'm ready, if you do.
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I want 2500 hp, and an inspection sticker. (next build). I can do that with any number of engine platforms.....
Talk about "internet folklore" ::)
And how long exactly do you think these "2500 hp" engines last? Stock blocks? Weeks, maybe? Otherwise, there is your $35k shortblock that you loathe. The world has no shortage of 2000+ hp engines these days, they just don't tell you about the buttloads of cash and/or big money sponsors that float them endless supplies of parts.
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What if you decided to do an all iron motor, with factory ford parts, maybe a 70s era aftermarket intake, and use modern pistons, cam, and maybe some fancy valve and port work? Sounds grassroots to me :)
Leave a set of blue valve covers on it if it's not grassroots enough....
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Hydraulic roller it is. Stay tuned.
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Hydraulic roller it is. Stay tuned.
I object! It's obvious Roller Cams Matter hacked the voting process. Flats were gaining steam on the far end until someone suspiciously hit the nitrous button. I can't prove this, but now I'm going to write a book about what happened here any way, and go on an apology tour immediately thereafter.
16 clackety lifters. 8 bellowing venturis. 4 whining gears. 2 springy points. And a barkbark locker in a parking lot. I think there's a song here somewhere. Don't matter, it's all music to me.
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What if you decided to do an all iron motor, with factory ford parts, maybe a 70s era aftermarket intake, and use modern pistons, cam, and maybe some fancy valve and port work? Sounds grassroots to me :)
Leave a set of blue valve covers on it if it's not grassroots enough....
Close. Want a challenge? Take a dead stock '67 GT390 engine (C7 heads have the worst rep, so use those) including the iron S intake, blueprint it with cast pistons and a factory copy solid FLAT lifter cam, DIY porting, factory dual-screen GT air cleaner, points dizzy, and CJ exhaust manifolds. Put it into a middle weight intermediate stick car and fine tune the entire combination for the straight line. Let's see what that poor maligned 390 can do. Put the stock factory '18 GT's in your crosshairs.
Edit: Oh and don't forget to use umbrellas seals on the heads for PROPER oil to the valve stems. Don't want to flatten those lobes, do we?
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What if you decided to do an all iron motor, with factory ford parts, maybe a 70s era aftermarket intake, and use modern pistons, cam, and maybe some fancy valve and port work? Sounds grassroots to me :)
Leave a set of blue valve covers on it if it's not grassroots enough....
Close. Want a challenge? Take a dead stock '67 GT390 engine (C7 heads have the worst rep, so use those) including the iron S intake, blueprint it with cast pistons and a factory copy solid FLAT lifter cam, DIY porting, factory dual-screen GT air cleaner, points dizzy, and CJ exhaust manifolds. Put it into a middle weight intermediate stick car and fine tune the entire combination for the straight line. Let's see what that poor maligned 390 can do. Put the stock factory '18 GT's in your crosshairs.
Edit: Oh and don't forget to use umbrellas seals on the heads for PROPER oil to the valve stems. Don't want to flatten those lobes, do we?
Do it man, if that makes you feel groovy. I'd love to see it. You probably have all those parts laying around, just need to find a new home for the black widows
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We all knew Brent was going to do the hydraulic roller from the get-go. It's his time, money, and parts, so he doesn't have to justify it to us. Plus, it makes more business sense since that is the direction things are going. And it will be breaking more new ground. Makes sense all the way around.
Even though I voted flat tappet, I will be very curious and grateful to see the results.
JMO,
paulie
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I had actually changed my mind.
I originally started this project as a hydraulic roller, that's why I had the cam.
Started second guessing myself and started thinking about a solid roller, but knew that a hydraulic roller would produce more usable data.
So I started the poll.
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What if you decided to do an all iron motor, with factory ford parts, maybe a 70s era aftermarket intake, and use modern pistons, cam, and maybe some fancy valve and port work? Sounds grassroots to me :)
Leave a set of blue valve covers on it if it's not grassroots enough....
Close. Want a challenge? Take a dead stock '67 GT390 engine (C7 heads have the worst rep, so use those) including the iron S intake, blueprint it with cast pistons and a factory copy solid FLAT lifter cam, DIY porting, factory dual-screen GT air cleaner, points dizzy, and CJ exhaust manifolds. Put it into a middle weight intermediate stick car and fine tune the entire combination for the straight line. Let's see what that poor maligned 390 can do. Put the stock factory '18 GT's in your crosshairs.
Edit: Oh and don't forget to use umbrellas seals on the heads for PROPER oil to the valve stems. Don't want to flatten those lobes, do we?
Do it man, if that makes you feel groovy. I'd love to see it. You probably have all those parts laying around, just need to find a new home for the black widows
I would feel groovy. And, yes, I have every single darn part I mentioned, including a '67 GT stick car. I'm sure I can find a correct date code block/heads/intake after wading through piles of grassroots HR's, MR's, and CJ's.
The gang I used to run with in Cali was called the Black Widows, coincidentally. We were based out of Pacoima and were badass. Ever hear of us?
https://www.google.com/search?q=black+widows+in+arizona
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/38/4d/0c/384d0c4f7a680143dff4df7bfbc955f9.jpg)
Right turn Clyde....
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I had actually changed my mind.
I originally started this project as a hydraulic roller, that's why I had the cam.
Started second guessing myself and started thinking about a solid roller, but knew that a hydraulic roller would produce more usable data.
So I started the poll.
I have a new solid roller that came in a huge parts buyout a while back. I'm recollecting something like 250/260 and .625"/.640". Ish. I'm done afeared to use it on account of the lifters, which are whatever FPP was private labeling back in the 90's. I'm thinking almost guaranteed to fail? I dunno. An SFT stick with the same lift (ish) was in that stuff, too. Probably safer. Seller was going to put one or the other into this 1/2-fill A-scratch block with dome slugs and LeMans rods. Nicely ported H heads (!) with oversized FPP valves with triple springs and o-ringed with copper gaskets.
Um, is this still grassroots?
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Right turn Clyde....
HA! Ain't Google wunnerful?
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We all knew Brent was going to do the hydraulic roller from the get-go. It's his time, money, and parts, so he doesn't have to justify it to us. Plus, it makes more business sense since that is the direction things are going. And it will be breaking more new ground. Makes sense all the way around.
Even though I voted flat tappet, I will be very curious and grateful to see the results.
JMO,
paulie
Gosh, paulie, what a heart-warming left-wing sentiment from you! :D Here I was all set to tie Brent to the same bumper we just hitched Al Gore to, and you get all warm 'n' fuzzy. Guess I'll just kick you in the ovaries.
Camshaft diversity will be happiness for all!
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I had actually changed my mind.
I originally started this project as a hydraulic roller, that's why I had the cam.
Started second guessing myself and started thinking about a solid roller, but knew that a hydraulic roller would produce more usable data.
So I started the poll.
Well, I was pretty sure the direction it was going to go. :)
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I had actually changed my mind.
I do that hourly. Too many projects. Not enough brains.
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We all knew Brent was going to do the hydraulic roller from the get-go. It's his time, money, and parts, so he doesn't have to justify it to us. Plus, it makes more business sense since that is the direction things are going. And it will be breaking more new ground. Makes sense all the way around.
Even though I voted flat tappet, I will be very curious and grateful to see the results.
JMO,
paulie
Gosh, paulie, what a heart-warming left-wing sentiment from you! :D Here I was all set to tie Brent to the same bumper we just hitched Al Gore to, and you get all warm 'n' fuzzy. Guess I'll just kick you in the ovaries.
Camshaft diversity will be happiness for all!
I was going to say that I guess I swing both ways, but that is pretty out of date. I guess I'd have to say that I swing 63 ways now?
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We all knew Brent was going to do the hydraulic roller from the get-go. It's his time, money, and parts, so he doesn't have to justify it to us. Plus, it makes more business sense since that is the direction things are going. And it will be breaking more new ground. Makes sense all the way around.
Even though I voted flat tappet, I will be very curious and grateful to see the results.
JMO,
paulie
Gosh, paulie, what a heart-warming left-wing sentiment from you! :D Here I was all set to tie Brent to the same bumper we just hitched Al Gore to, and you get all warm 'n' fuzzy. Guess I'll just kick you in the ovaries.
Camshaft diversity will be happiness for all!
I was going to say that I guess I swing both ways, but that is pretty out of date. I guess I'd have to say that I swing 63 ways now?
63 genders is SO 2015. Can't you keep up, you straight white devil you? Want a good laugh? Look what I just found. I'm dyin' here.
https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/
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Okay, you got me. I am laughing and crying.
I guess I better not say there are 4 types? Hydraulic flat, hydraulic roller, solid flat, and solid roller? What about the OHC guys that <gasp> don't even HAVE tappets? Or the Desmodromic guys lacking <yikes> HALF their valvesprings? It is indeed a minefield, with the mines constantly moving.
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And I hate to think about guys using pneumatic devices! Yeck!
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Okay, you got me. I am laughing and crying.
I guess I better not say there are 4 types? Hydraulic flat, hydraulic roller, solid flat, and solid roller? What about the OHC guys that <gasp> don't even HAVE tappets? Or the Desmodromic guys lacking <yikes> HALF their valvesprings? It is indeed a minefield, with the mines constantly moving.
You forgot the lunatic fringe of the SFT crowd... the hollow shell lifter groupies. They deserve their own gender, no?
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Someday valves will be actuated electromagnetically like injectors. Then all hell will break loose.
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Someday valves will be actuated electromagnetically like injectors. Then all hell will break loose.
That technology already exist and has for quite some time. It will eventually make it into a production market as cost comes down and reliability goes up for such pieces. One of the main reasons is there is no one to service such systems, but that too is changing.
Imagine having infinite instant adjustability over valve events all while eliminating moving parts and energy required to drive said parts. O mama!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZWeNPi2XkE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510
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I want 2500 hp, and an inspection sticker. (next build). I can do that with any number of engine platforms.....
Talk about "internet folklore" ::)
And how long exactly do you think these "2500 hp" engines last? Stock blocks? Weeks, maybe? Otherwise, there is your $35k shortblock that you loathe. The world has no shortage of 2000+ hp engines these days, they just don't tell you about the buttloads of cash and/or big money sponsors that float them endless supplies of parts.
Bruh, things have changed. It's actually quite easy to do if you can afford it. I started a "drag week" fund where 5% of everything I make goes, back in 2014. My point is, I could do it with an FE now too thanks to the fact we have several good heads to choose from nowadays, but I don't think it would live very long and would cost a fortune trying. I wish we even had the parts available to begin with, to be able to live at that level for any appreciable amount of time. You can do a BBF or BBC and not have to worry much about sponsors. Just basic maintenance - it's called a turbo. I never mentioned stock block either... That'd be ludicrous. The stock LS blocks are holding 2K hp tho... Must be nice, eh?
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Someday valves will be actuated electromagnetically like injectors. Then all hell will break loose.
That technology already exist and has for quite some time.
Imagine having infinite instant adjustability over valve events all while eliminating moving parts and energy required to drive said parts. O mama!
It's out there and reliable. BMW had a hydraulic setup on some of their motorcycle engines around 2000 for example. There are no throttle blades/butterflies of any kind. When you back off the gas, the valve lift actually decreases to reduce to an idle, on the fly. How freaking cool is that? I was absolutely blown away the first time I saw a setup like that.
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Yeah, the variable timing electrically activated valve engines will have to arrive. And then a car will have a tiny two cylinder engine, turbocharged and be a battery hybrid vehicle. Probably the engine will fit inside a suitcase.
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lower rpm , maybe 5200 max , good low end , for heavy cars , trucks , maybe tow truck , trucks seem to be getting more and more popular . 50's , 60's and 70's trucks . just thinking out of my head , uh box .
We have no issues with hydraulic rollers and those rpms. The issue comes with trying to pull "big boy" rpms with them. I've seen some 6500 rpm hydraulic rollers here, but it takes some strategizing to get them to pull on up.
I've actually got the hydraulic roller camshaft here for a higher rpm engine, but wanted to think outside the box a little more.
Brent, what's the limit rpm for hydraulic rollers, 6,500 and what brands will take them ?
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Bruh, things have changed.
Really? And here I thought 60 year old passenger car engine technology was still the top rung on the ladder. I hadn't even heard of turbos until you mentioned them. Thanks for educating me, "bruh". ::)
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Bruh, things have changed.
Really? And here I thought 60 year old passenger car engine technology was still the top rung on the ladder. I hadn't even heard of turbos until you mentioned them. Thanks for educating me, "bruh". ::)
Always has to be a XXX around the FE forums, huh? I would never actually use the term "bruh" in the real world, but I figured it was appropriate sarcasm for the quality of your initial comment. If you think 2500 hp and street able is internet folklore, you're only about a decade behind. Not too bad on your part, really. It was done before then, but you were probably too busy packing animal fat into the bearings on your horse and buggy axle to keep up with things like that.
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I'd love it if this very decent thread doesn't turn into a pissing match.
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X2......
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I'd love it if this very decent thread doesn't turn into a pissing match.
Not gonna happen on my part. He's not worth the time.
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Really? And here I thought 60 year old passenger car engine technology was still the top rung on the ladder.
How many miles and how many passes do you now have on the 60 year old technology engine in the Mach?
Best ET?
I have a feeling that it hangs pretty well with some fairly expensive new stuff...
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Really? And here I thought 60 year old passenger car engine technology was still the top rung on the ladder.
How many miles and how many passes do you now have on the 60 year old technology engine in the Mach?
Best ET?
I have a feeling that it hangs pretty well with some fairly expensive new stuff...
Well, 2 Drag Weeks and 2 FE Reunions, plus 2000+ street miles, so that'd be about 4000 miles and about 40 trips down the strip in about 2 1/2 years. My best ET so far is 12.1 here at home, but it should be in the 11's, if it had a better driver ::) I keep wittling away at that 60' time. Still, not to shameful for a stock block, stock crank, unported heads, stock intake, factory carbs and 60 year old buggy technology.
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If you upgraded to synthetic ox fat I’m sure we could get ya in the 11’s
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If you upgraded to synthetic ox fat I’m sure we could get ya in the 11’s
;D ;D ;D ROFL LMFA.... or whatever the youngones use
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I'd love it if this very decent thread doesn't turn into a pissing match.
I already ruined it by my sheer presence. OTOH, it would be fun to realign the new guy's attitude, since we don't have Foxwell to kick around any more. Perhaps we should have a poll...
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What the hell is a Bruh?
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What the hell is a Bruh?
It's what a millennial stoner calls his buddy when he's too whacked to remember his name.
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Bruh, things have changed.
Really? And here I thought 60 year old passenger car engine technology was still the top rung on the ladder. I hadn't even heard of turbos until you mentioned them. Thanks for educating me, "bruh". ::)
Always has to be a XXX around the FE forums, huh? I would never actually use the term "bruh" in the real world, but I figured it was appropriate sarcasm for the quality of your initial comment. If you think 2500 hp and street able is internet folklore, you're only about a decade behind.
Coreyc619, I edited your post to remove your offensive language. Please read the rules of the forum, which state that a civil tone is required. Thanks, Jay
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I'd love it if this very decent thread doesn't turn into a pissing match.
I already ruined it by my sheer presence. OTOH, it would be fun to realign the new guy's attitude, since we don't have Foxwell to kick around any more. Perhaps we should have a poll...
Foxwell showed up on the other forum the other day, in case anyone wants to go looking for a random argument. Don't take my word for it though.....I'm just a puppet.
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You sold all your shit, so go to the back of the line, pussy.
No problem Jay. Thanks for the heads up.
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You sold all your shit, so go to the back of the line, pussy.
No problem Jay. Thanks for the heads up.
Jay knows that not only can anyone call me anything they want (FEloneee, come out to playaaaay), but that Tommy -T and I go way back, at one time battling it out to be #1 a-hole of the N54 forum. It was a tight race. So me calling him a pussy is sorta like you calling your stoner millennials buddy a bruh, bruh. Matter of fact, I'd feel neglected if he didn't spear me back. 'Cuz that's how I roll.
OK, someone name the movie.
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Really? And here I thought 60 year old passenger car engine technology was still the top rung on the ladder.
How many miles and how many passes do you now have on the 60 year old technology engine in the Mach?
Best ET?
I have a feeling that it hangs pretty well with some fairly expensive new stuff...
Well, 2 Drag Weeks and 2 FE Reunions, plus 2000+ street miles, so that'd be about 4000 miles and about 40 trips down the strip in about 2 1/2 years. My best ET so far is 12.1 here at home, but it should be in the 11's, if it had a better driver ::) I keep wittling away at that 60' time. Still, not to shameful for a stock block, stock crank, unported heads, stock intake, factory carbs and 60 year old buggy technology.
No sir. Absolutely was not referring to your car as a buggy, covered wagon, etc. That's a beautiful car. My comment was just random sarcasm, engaging in what I thought was playful banter surrounding me being younger (so I must therefore also be clueless ::) ).. No disrespect intended for you personally, or your car.
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You sold all your shit, so go to the back of the line, pussy.
No problem Jay. Thanks for the heads up.
Jay knows that not only can anyone call me anything they want (FEloneee, come out to playaaaay), but that Tommy -T and I go way back, at one time battling it out to be #1 a-hole of the N54 forum. It was a tight race. So me calling him a pussy is sorta like you calling your stoner millennials buddy a bruh, bruh. Matter of fact, I'd feel neglected if he didn't spear me back. 'Cuz that's how I roll.
OK, someone name the movie.
That's cool. Your posts are what made me think I could get away with being equally sarcastic and half cocked. I laughed at several of your comments, and wasn't offended at all - If it matters. My friends and I use similar "terms of endearment." No worries here.
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...me being younger (so I must therefore also be clueless ::) )
[c.eastwood]
"Well now, I think that if you stay mindful of the above, and keep it real close-like to your heart, you might make it through this in one piece."
[/c.eastwood]
Your posts are what made me think I could get away with being equally sarcastic and half cocked.
You gotta earn that, boah, I mean, bruh. Familiarity ain't awarded just cuz you freakin' signed up to this forum. So don't blame your impetuous insolence on me, whippasnappah. Be mindful of the status quo.
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"FEloneee, come out to playaaaay"
OK, someone name the movie.
Hurry up, people!
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...me being younger (so I must therefore also be clueless ::) )
[c.eastwood]
"Well now, I think that if you stay mindful of the above, and keep it real close-like to your heart, you might make it through this in one piece."
[/c.eastwood]
Your posts are what made me think I could get away with being equally sarcastic and half cocked.
You gotta earn that, boah, I mean, bruh. Familiarity ain't awarded just cuz you freakin' signed up to this forum. So don't blame your impetuous insolence on me, whippasnappah. Be mindful of the status quo.
You know, Jay has a valid point in pursuing a maintained code of conduct. Many a good forum have been ruined by the comments of one horses.. Rear? Corral.net ruined by KATO ENGINEERING. HardcoreLS1 by SStrokerAce. Yellowbullet is immune, I think because everyone knows what they're getting into beforehand... I could go on and on... Anyway, in light of that, and the fact that from the first thread I saw on network 54 some 20+ years ago... Jay is one of several that I look up to and respect. I won't be giving him any trouble. I enjoy this forum, in part for it not being like most of the rest. You can do what you want... As long as it doesn't include enjoying the deluded idea that you "taught that young punk a lesson" using a condescending tone that didn't go unnoticed. Come on man. I can think of 15,426,378 reasons why I won't be adding any further clutter to Brent's thread. You see what I did there? Do you even FE bro?
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Do you even FE bro?
Who, me? Nah. Everybody here knows that all my stuff is a figment of my imagination, and that I know absolutely nothing about cars. "FElony" just exists as a circus sideshow for the train-wreck crowd (free of charge, I might add). Jay gets to beat me down on occasion, as needed, and we're all happy. I play with slot cars in between posts. 9H07Q5. It's a slot car.
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"FEloneee, come out to playaaaay"
OK, someone name the movie.
Hurry up, people!
The Warriors. (You need some Millers pony bottles for the whole effect)
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"FEloneee, come out to playaaaay"
OK, someone name the movie.
Hurry up, people!
The Warriors. (You need some Millers pony bottles for the whole effect)
Excellent! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeEbtiruH2Q
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Butt cereal-iously, I'd like to hear about some tricks to getting solid flat lifters to live reliably in a drag car.
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I'm not completely sure of my logic, but I know this is appropriate, somehow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M--bD_xmVb0
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Might be more appropriate in a Cobra forum, Paulie ;D
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Sorry Jay! I couldn't help myself! :)
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Might be more appropriate in a Cobra forum, Paulie ;D
Just saw this. Did ya catch my snake post I just put in the OT section?
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Ah hell. Den of...... :)
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Butt cereal-iously, I'd like to hear about some tricks to getting solid flat lifters to live reliably in a drag car.
I think they're the easiest to get to live reliably in a drag car. They may limit the cam lobe aggressiveness to an extent, but there isn't any moving parts to fail. There are plenty of guys on here who have been running the same solids for years and years on strictly drag cars. Personally, I have a dislike for hydraulics as much as I do for automatics.
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...Personally, I have a dislike for hydraulics as much as I do for automatics.
Don't forget about those pesky single quad intakes. Worthless lumps, I say.