FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: westcoastgalaxie on July 07, 2018, 04:56:12 PM
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Created any shit for you here. I am sad to see you delete you posts and remove
What was valuable information for me. I had hoped to read it a few times to
Learn something new. In the interest of not losing what I posted in your soon to be deleted post I will paste my response here.
“Whoa! I wasn’t trying to start a fight with my comments. I am just thoroughly impressed with this combination. You are pulling some high hp out of those heads and out of 390 ci without turning high rpms. I have been on these forums since the mid 2000’s and I have seen a lot off 390 builds and track times. There is a reason people stroke, use power adders, aftermarket heads, rpms,
etc to get better numbers. I know the ss guys use a lot of attention to detail and have a lot of knowledge to get impressive numbers out of stock parts and parameters. That is really what I mean by black magic. It’s the tribal knowledge of a platform and the tricks of the trade.
Us regular folk who don’t do this for living can only hope to pick up some of this along the way so thank you for being so generous with sharing the details behind the build. I know a lot do not reveal all because for those that race it’s a competitive edge. What is the intent of this motor? Will it see strip duty?”
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I don't think it was you that stirred the pot.
Some builders don't like other builders on the same forum. They may see it as business competition? Not sure.
Sad that two very decent engine builders are at each others throats - hopefully Mr. Foxwell will be back.
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hopefully Mr. Foxwell will be back.
I see he closed out his membership. Not surprised at all. I doubt there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth ::)
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hopefully Mr. Foxwell will be back.
I see he closed out his membership. Not surprised at all. I doubt there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth ::)
Maybe back to Yellow Bullet, that Wild West show disguised as a website?
Sorry to see anyone go btw but constant confrontation isn't a good thing. We all have our opinions and all are valid.
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Odd deal. I've talked with him outside the forum and actually gave him a couple nuances to think about as he was building that engine, was totally receptive to them and super nice. Seems like behind a keyboard everyone's message gets carried away.
I think everyone needs to cool their jets a bit. Stuff like this makes good and smart people not want to share anything, and that sucks. I hang around here to learn.
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I've talked to Scott at the PRI show and it was enjoyable. I don't always share his opinion nor he mine. This is just human nature. Deleting membership is a drastic move.
Randy
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I've never personally talked to Scott but I did always enjoy hearing (reading) what he had to say. It's a shame to lose any resource here because it doesn't appear to be a huge group of guys. I understand we all run hot, we're all men here right?
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....we're all men here right?
And a couple of monkeys.......
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Scott did IM me to share some of his experiences with beehive springs. It was a pleasant message, and I would have been happy to share some of my experiences with him, but unfortunately you can't IM to a deleted account :(
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I’m not up to speed on all of the bickering Scott was involved with here, though I’ve seen it in recent threads and I remember older posts he wrote.
General impression I got was he has a chip on his shoulder when it comes to professional engine builders. I’ve known people who hold similar positions about varying professions.
They feel somehow offended that someone else charges money for a job they feel they can do just as well, be it plumbing, wrenching or digging post holes. I’ve never understood that, if you can do the job to the standards you are happy with, fine, but don’t hold it against the guy who is doing it for a living.
I was an auto mechanic for 20 years, and in that time I would never have even considered paying someone to put an engine together for me, I did it all the time. Then I got a job next door to a machine shop, the owner and I worked very closely. After I saw all the effort and knowledge he put into every motor he built, I changed my mind real quick.
Where I might do 10-15 engine swaps a year, this guy did 3 or 4 a week.
Sad to see someone leave but I won’t miss the bickering .
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I saw the "monkey see monkey do" comment not whatever was possibly posted before. If it seems to work others follow, just as similar minds with similar experience often arrive at the same solution. Ten years ago how many ran hydraulic rollers with factory non adjustables? It's the hot setup now isn't it? How many thought needle bearings were the way on roller rockers forever and now we're heading back to bushings. Moving forward takes testing and often a push by people who have thier own way of thinking. Otherwise we fall in a groove until that change smacks us in the face.
Ole Scott might not of been the source of the next big thing but people like him willing to go against the grain are often those who inspire such. Even when it was in an effort to prove him wrong he provoked the best discussions I've yet to see on here. It was a nice change at times vs all the glad handing but some tact would serve him well.
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I saw the "monkey see monkey do" comment not whatever was possibly posted before. If it seems to work others follow, just as similar minds with similar experience often arrive at the same solution. Ten years ago how many ran hydraulic rollers with factory non adjustables? It's the hot setup now isn't it? How many thought needle bearings were the way on roller rockers forever and now we're heading back to bushings. Moving forward takes testing and often a push by people who have thier own way of thinking. Otherwise we fall in a groove until that change smacks us in the face.
Ole Scott might not of been the source of the next big thing but people like him willing to go against the grain are often those who inspire such. Even when it was in an effort to prove him wrong he provoked the best discussions I've yet to see on here. It was a nice change at times vs all the glad handing but some tact would serve him well.
Hey, I had no issues with Scott and also appreciated his views. But geez, attitude counts too and dragging others through the mud has no place here..nor any Ford blog. I also have some contrary views on 'stuff' but would never denigrate our pro engine builders nor even totally rookie novices!
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Being passionate about something I feel is a good quality. A passionate person is detail oriented and when it comes to engine building the details count. The huge problem with the keyboard is that words have no "tone". You have no idea if someone is being sarcastic, serious, or joking. Depending on personality type, you read typed words based on it. If your serious person, you read the words with a negative tone....if your happy go lucky person your read the words more light hearted.
When it comes to engine builders, you want a serious one. They will get the details right. People have called me an engine builder....I quickly correct them. I am not...I don't have the skill set. I see the big the picture. An engine builder see's strokes, the color hues, and what they need to do to complete the picture.
99.9% of the time you get 2 passionate people speaking by typed words....it's going to go to hell in a hand basket real quick. Now you take those same 2 people and they meet in public and add tone to the voice....the odds are they will find common ground and get along just fine. I've seen it first hand. Scott and Chad Spier's could not stand each other. A chance meeting at PRI and they email back regularly.
YB can be zoo....I have had my fair share of personal attacks on their but I learned a valuable lesson over there a few years back. A chance PM from George Bryce, Star Racing, ended up me calling George. I took him on a memory lane movie of his past out of the blue as he did not know he and I shared a common mentor. George told me in conversation that day, "Chris it isn't the the 1% of the membership that post that you need to worry about, it's the 99% that read and never type a word. He is correct, our largest projects we have done are from customers that have never posted or have posted less than a dozen times on sites. These customers are well to do and can read through the lines.
Whether you like someone or not, you can tell if they know what they are talking about. Scott and disagree on a ton of stuff and for the most part don't hang out after work as our life styles are very different, but when it comes to him as a person, he is a good person that means well and a very talented person. If he wasn't you won't have people like Larry Widmer and Darin Morgan giving him kudo's on his work.
The are many smart people on this site....I read. There are many passionate people on this site......I read. Life's too short and this industry is not getting in larger. Having guys like Lykins, Foxwell, Robotnic, and others is good....different ways but excellent results.
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FYI to the membership, Scott requested that I remove the posts on his engine, and also sent me a PM inviting me to delete his membership, which I did. I will miss his contributions to the forum and wish him luck in the future.
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Hey, I had no issues with Scott and also appreciated his views. But geez, attitude counts too and dragging others through the mud has no place here..nor any Ford blog. I also have some contrary views on 'stuff' but would never denigrate our pro engine builders nor even totally rookie novices!
Hey, Bob
A different point of veiw even when it's not the accepted method is far more valuable than more cheerleadng is all I was getting at. I do agree with you here about being civil but I also feel the counters to his somewhat brash statements resulted in farther detail and guarded information than if one were to simply ask in a polite manor. Tipping of the hand a touch if you will... Poke a guy's ego or tout yours and more often than not someone will spill the beans. I've done it but lucky for me the best I have to offer is usually discounted by more popular individuals. Lol
, Dan
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You are all wrong, a person can only achieve Cosmic FE union through me.... there is NO other way.
/thread
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I always was amazed at his discussion about rocker adjustment. Something I'd never thought about but it did wake me up. What ever he said???
Richard >>> FERoadster
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IF a person gets "under my skin" to the point where I want to call him names or insult him to the "nth" degree , I do it in a PM. It's "my" disagreement with that person not anyone else's. Besides , "I" could be wrong , not him! The point is be respectful of others when "talking in public". Forum dog piles are never productive unless it's to warn others of theft or other illegal activities .
Just this old man's view.
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But, it is difficult to have everything you try to say criticized, nixed, corrected in his eyes, or they have done it better, longer, or theirs cost more, or made more horsepower, etc., etc.. Cannot say with a clear conscience that the forum was better with him here. Check out his Chevy posts on Speed Talk sometimes. A Chevy guy builds a one or two Fords, and thinks he is God's gift to the Ford community. Some of us have specialized in Fords, and would rather walk than drive a Chevrolet. Joe-JDC
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What would have deescalated the situation would have been the use of the words, "It's been my experience........"
From this point on, I will try and use those words more myself.
Just as Blair piped up and gave his example about the conical springs cutting out 70 lbs of valve spring pressure from a SS engine, it would have been more beneficial to the entire thread if Scott would have just said, "Here's my experience....." and then left it alone.
We also have to remember that all of the FE builders on here have a significant customer base. I have several sets of heads that I have just assembled and setup with beehives for customers. The last thing I need is a mass phone call session where I have to explain my choice of valve springs because one particular person poo-poo'd all over them.
The last thing I'll note is that the "wizards" comment really got to me. I didn't sit in the corner sobbing with my head in my hands, but it just seemed like a direct (but somewhat "behind our back") uppercut to all of us who specialize in FE's. I don't know if the intent was to discount our experience levels or what, but there seemed to be a message of "Don't let these guys fool you, the FE is nothing special."
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Scott seemed to be an overall nice guy that was willing to help, but he also came into another world (FE's) besides his own and seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. I hate to say it guys but what do you expect as we have all seen as die hard Ford fans, he had a side that was typical Chevy guy. I also found it very interesting like Joe that he came in here for a while gaining recognition then builds 1 FE, posts obtainable but very optimistic numbers and then finds a lame reason to bail. As has been mentioned, we all have opinions but there tactful ways to express them IF you want to actually get along and you have to be extra careful communicating in a forum setting.
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Well, at least he didn't leave forever numerous times only to be back within an hour or two. I'm another one who saw some good info in his posts but many of us low buck home engine builders can't and don't take a cut and dried approach to things which is the way Scott came across. His way or no way with no regard to other proven experiences. The shimming rocker stand thread was a good example.
I'm fine if he returns and shares and fine if he doesn't. Taking your ball and going home because someone doesn't agree with you seems a bit thin skinned to me.
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I have known Mr. Foxwell a little bit outside of the forum/FE world. He is actually a pretty sharp engine builder and knows his stuff. In person he is fairly easy to talk to and discuss things with. His web/written persona is more brusque and blunt than he is in person - might just be his writing style. His choice of words and confrontational style could be softened up a bit, but that would no longer be "Scott".
Although I sometime disagree with some things posted from time to time I try to keep an open mind and always learn things from others efforts. I "reserve the right" to challenge ideas, parts, and results that I find attention grabbing, and equally expect similar challenges to things I say or results I post if they fall outside of expected norms. We are here to learn, and if we as a group do not share our accumulated learnings the next generation will not care about what we have done or how we did it.
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Very well said!
KS
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Well kiss my grits, fellers! It ain't that big of a deal, lol. Until recently, I never heard of the guy, on this forum or the old FE net54 site. Apparently he works on BB Chevs regular? He basically did show up here on our ball field, and proceeded to tell pretty much everyone here.........over one thing or another.... that we weren't playing the right game on our field, and our bats and gloves all suck, and hell......we can't play ball anyway. Like Tommy Lee Jones said in the Fugitive.... "I don't care". Maybe he's an okay guy, and maybe he has forgot more than our dumb asses know. I think there are a lot of long-time FE guys that are here, and a lot who came from old net54 who agree that he came across wrong here. Maybe he will read all the comments, tone down his critical tone, and rejoin. That would be just peachy. I don't think any of us wish him any bad luck in life...... it's just a FE talk tank here. However, I won't miss the way he conducted himself the first go-around. I'll bet we have all done things that we wish we could do-over in hindsight. I'll bet Jay would hook him right back up.
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Blair, I couldn't agree more. With your southern Tennessee way of speaking, you always hit the nail on the head, in plain talk.
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It is a well known bit of behavioural psychology that all communication in writing is more powerful and potentially offensive than the same thing said on the phone, and the same thing said in person is even less likely to offend. In person, and to some extent on the phone, we have tone of voice, posture and other queues to read, and most important we can respond to the reaction of the listener.
In writing it is just the bare words and the momentary attitude of the reader. An absolute truth from my selling career is "DON'T TRY TO SELL ON THE PHONE", and absolutely NEVER in writing. I would fly 18 hours one way for a one hour meeting rather than do it on the phone. Sounds extreme, but when we were selling big contracts in the software business (with pretty much 100% margins so a lost deal didn't come with the comfort that at least you didn't have to build the thing) a small misunderstanding could kill a deal.
When reading someone's note you need to try and read it in a friendly mindset, and when writing it you need to expect a hostile reader. Scott often failed at the later, and some of us may have occasionally failed at the former. Remember the written word is very intense.
I'm sorry he took his bat and ball and went home.
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I would like to observe that one of the reasons I really enjoy this forum is the level of respect show in the comments given.
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I read it that Drew is hosting some sort of Comic FE reunion?
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It's not what ya say, it's how you say it!
I think he brought up some things that made for good discussion but his "how he said it" was a good way to flamed on any forum. Luckily this forum is more professional or he would have left long ago. I had stirred the pot on the n54 forum a few times but I am not going to pack it up and leave over a pissing match. Maybe his pity party will end and he will man-up and re-join. No harm no foul ya know.
Point is to learn/share knowledge and experiences and removing all your input only hurts anyone that is lurking/learning in the shadows....I lurked for a long time before building my first ever engine thanks to many of the posts/posters here and elsewhere. Now if I could only find time to finish the rest of the truck! ???
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He’s had the same problems on some of the Facebook FE groups as well, and didn’t take too lightly to being called out on it.
“Ben, you need to put a sock in it. I'm not going to disrespect that thread by responding to your crap, but here: Jays' site is mostly good guys but there are a couple clowns over there that I have zero patience for. Kinda like you... I have never had a problem admitting when I'm wrong. I do have a problem with jokers who think they're "accomplished engine builders" that want to argue just for the sake of arguing. Kinda like you right now. Oh, and FYI, Jay's a liar. I did not ask him to cancel my membership on that site. I told him what I thought of him and his puppet Lykens, and if he didn't like it he could cancel it. That was his choice not mine. Trust me, there are plenty of people who see the other side of that coin plain as day. And Chris did what he thought was right, I had no idea he posted that. Finally, I sure don't need your approval or opinion on anything. How about you just mind your own business, kid. You really don't have a clue what you;re talking about.”
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Wow.
I've never been a puppet before! He could have at least spelled my name correctly if he was gonna dis me. ;D
What you copied and pasted there reminds me of a PM that Scott sent me through this forum that said something like, "You better have your dishes clean and put away before you step into my kitchen!"
Whatever that means.
Sounds like Scott needs to do a little self-reflecting. Looks very poorly on Straub's business to have an employee bad-mouthing everyone, discrediting them, and calling them names.
Sounds like Jay did the right thing.
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What group is that quote from?
I apparently missed a lot of the post that was taken down, the last time I checked in on it was before all the action happened. Just to be clear I have no horse in this race and my only point was that there aren't a lot of guys here so it's a shame to see anyone go.
I belong to a few Mustang and FE forums, I like to read and learn but don't contrubute much unless I actually have something constructive to say. What I will say about this forum is that there are a lot of very knowledgable members who contrubute regularly and hardly any drama so to speak of. Most of the other forums are like watching reality TV. They're full of snarky comments that contribute nothing and derail the conversation away from the original point or from people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about. Jay clearly likes to keep things professional on this forum and I like that.
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What you copied and pasted there reminds me of a PM that Scott sent me through this forum that said something like, "You better have your dishes clean and put away before you step into my kitchen!"
Whatever that means.
(https://i.imgur.com/wQcDAdj.gif)
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Jays not a liar , he simply used the "if you don't like it" option presented to him by Scott. Throwing blame and guilt upon others to maintain ones image is as old as dirt. I asked for membership here so I could learn and share my experience too. Certainly not to argue or degrade people who do things differently than I do. Respect ( even when disagreeing) , is what every member deserves but other members can't control the desire of a few to give up that respect by mistreating others. Many forums have to deal with "persons of EGO" and many of us are ego driven more than others. EGO does not = superiority anywhere.
Randy
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This song goes out to Jay Brown..................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liKhLNY5GYI
Ok wait, I take that back. I didn't listen to all the lyrics before I posted it................
I'm married and have a kid. I promise.
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Well, that's interesting. Here's a direct quote from the very nasty PM that Scott sent me after all the crap hit the fan from his last post:
"You can remove me, ban me, whatever you like, but I'm done here. "
I took that to mean that he wanted to be removed from the forum. So, I deleted his membership. I guess that makes me a liar ::)
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I doubt Jay that..."your pants are on fire!". ;) :) ;D
Sad as that fellow, from Day 1, to me seemed to be quite confrontational on most subjects. Why I don't know.
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Some call his problem a "Napoleon complex".
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more my speed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDEdFxUZ01s
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I read it that Drew is hosting some sort of Comic FE reunion?
Yeah I’m letting FElony make the fruit punch.
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I wouldn't touch that line with a ten foot... :)
KS
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Oh, come on! FElony, a comic FE reunion, fruit punch, what could possibly go wrong? LMAO, I'd pay to see that one!