FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fryedaddy on July 02, 2018, 12:01:39 PM
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im running and old early 90s 292 comp cam hyd i think it is 565 lift and 245 at .050.the rest of my engine is newer stuf like bbm heads, rpm intake, speed pro forged pistons,msd etc.. question is,are these pretty good cams or would i be better off with a newer grind.street car with 4.11 gears c6,3500 stall,under 3000 car?
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What size engine?
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im running and old early 90s 292 comp cam hyd i think it is 565 lift and 245 at .050.the rest of my engine is newer stuf like bbm heads, rpm intake, speed pro forged pistons,msd etc.. question is,are these pretty good cams or would i be better off with a newer grind.street car with 4.11 gears c6,3500 stall,under 3000 car?
Ditto what Brent asked.
Also, did you check out the 2287 P Piston thread just below? As noted, several stockish pistons have exhaust valve pockets that are right on the edge of hitting with a cam that big. I had to grind all 8 of mine in that area and looks like (gt350hr?) bent a valve cuz they hit.
The comet is really under 3000 lb??? Wow! bore/stroke/rods, headers, exhaust, carb?
That way I can Gonkulate it.
Any dragstrip time? That's the only way to really know if it's running like it should be.
The thing with a bigger cam is, sure you could always do better, but if you have a good flat tappet already broken in & happy, its a lot of work to do much better, like roller territory and then MORE valve-to-piston checking, may even have to pull the motor just to make the cam clear. Yuck. Unless you enjoy that of course!
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My Buddy install a Comp 306H in his car wanting it to pull strong to 7000 rpm but the hydraulic lifters quit pulling at 5800 rpm , lol
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The comet is really under 3000 lb???
No way, Jose.
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4.16 bore 3.98 stroke,10.7 to 1. headers,850 holley,4.11 gears.the 3000 is not with me in it.its like 2990 no fuel in it.street race plus a little track time.either way i run the pee out of it
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Where does it feel like it peaks the horsepower? Wanting to stay flat tappet or wanting to switch to a roller? Have power brakes?
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4.16 bore 3.98 stroke,10.7 to 1. headers,850 holley,4.11 gears.the 3000 is not with me in it.its like 2990 no fuel in it.street race plus a little track time.either way i run the pee out of it
Not trying to bust your chops, but if you get that car onto some certified scales, I'm bettin' your estimate is about 400-500 lbs low. Scrapyard, truck scale, race track, spend 5 or 10 dollars and know for sure. Tell us what you get. I'm not shooting in the dark here, my friend.
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I weighed my 67 Fairlane GTA a while back, kind of an oddball GTA. Bucket seats, no console, column shift, orig. H code 390, now 427 2 x 4 MR, C6, 1/2 tank of fuel, 3450 lbs on a certified scale.
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My 67 Fairlane 500 with roll cage, sub frame connectors and all aluminum 427 is 3,460 with me in it and 7 gal of fuel
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Where does it feel like it peaks the horsepower? Wanting to stay flat tappet or wanting to switch to a roller? Have power brakes?
no power brakes.it got up on the rev limiter at 7000 in a burnout.not sure where it peaks,but it hit 7000 . i got my weight at a local scrap yard.it could have been wrong but i parked on the scales and got out of the car.i have fiberglass hood and fenders no cage,alu heads,intake,water pump,no console,no tools in car,no back seat.scales could have been off a little,recycle place are ripoffs,maybe there scales are set low,i dont know but im not going to argue over it without knowing for sure.
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Wanting to stay flat tappet?
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yes i kinda want to stay flat tappet
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If you want to stay hydraulic, I don't think I can help you much. If you want to go solid, I could pick you up some ponies.
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Where does it feel like it peaks the horsepower? Wanting to stay flat tappet or wanting to switch to a roller? Have power brakes?
no power brakes.it got up on the rev limiter at 7000 in a burnout.not sure where it peaks,but it hit 7000 . i got my weight at a local scrap yard.it could have been wrong but i parked on the scales and got out of the car.i have fiberglass hood and fenders no cage,alu heads,intake,water pump,no console,no tools in car,no back seat.scales could have been off a little,recycle place are ripoffs,maybe there scales are set low,i dont know but im not going to argue over it without knowing for sure.
OK your car is in the Gonkulator, which is not as much fun nor as definitive as a timeslip, but its free anyway and no broken parts.
The "G" says
Torq 546 at 4000
Powr 502 at 5400
I start with an all-iron Fairlane at 3550, an all-iron Comet at 3580, full of gas, spare, jack. But that's a lot of weight you took out.
I guessed the car weight at 3200-3250, call it 3400 down the track.
1.79
7.67 at 91.8
11.95 at 114.9
That's shifting at 5800. Shifting the Gonkulator at 6000 gave the same.
I kinda agree w Brent, not sure how much more you can do with a hydraulic cam.
Retarding this cam 4 degrees to straight up lost 6 ftlb and gained 3hp, not worth it.
Cold air Gonked to
11.81 at 116.4
I assumed 3" exhaust. Running open headers, like the GOOD old days at the Dirty "D", Gonked to
11.72 at 117.5
Not much gain but it sure sounds good.
The main reason I think for open headers today, beyond the free educational experience in American History you are providing for society, is it lets you tune collectors. I'm not sure what headers you have, I guessed the FPA's that Jay used in most of his TGFEIC dyno runs. Those don't seem real sensitive to collector length with your engine, but again that's an easy thing to try.
Ditch the fan for an electric fan, Gonks to
11.64 at 118.9
Well that's 3 tenths quicker without even changing the cam. Have you had it to the strip yet? (Good place to weigh it too, they have to be pretty accurate)
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My 67 comet sedan 460 power with aluminum heads and intake c-6 roll cage and sub frame connectors .Fiberglass bumper and hood single seat no interior to speak off weighs 3420 with me inside .This was done at the track since my car is track only .For comparisons sake it has been 10.72 @ 124 . An fe with aluminum heads intake and water pump would probably be 50-75 pounds lighter than a similar 460 combo .Why not let Brent set you up with a solid lifter camshaft ? My 460 and 427 have solid lifter camshafts .Happy fourth ! Doug
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Why not let Brent set you up with a solid lifter camshaft ?
I would be up front if I didn't think I could help.
I enjoy cam design probably more than any other facet of engine building. I send out a lot of cams, but in the past couple months I have sent cams to 4 guys who were immediately able to either dyno the engine or get the car on the racetrack to quantify a difference.
Two guys were members of my Cleveland forum.
One had a 393 who had reached a wall and couldn't get his '70 Mustang to pick up. He had a solid roller from Crower. By simply decreasing the amount of overlap, I picked him up .06 in the 1/8th and 1 mph. (Was running low 6.30's...)
Another guy was running an early Mustang with a 408C. His previous cam was chosen by his builder. I picked him up .4 in the quarter and he was still able to drive the car an hour each way to the track with power brakes.
The other two guys are members here. I switched one guy's cam in his 428 from a 294S to a smaller hydraulic roller and picked him up 27 hp and 35 lb-ft. I'm still waiting to hear back from the other guy. He has a pulling truck with a 390 and wanted to pick up some more mid-range hp and torque.
With fryedaddy's drivetrain and desire to pull rpms, I think we could gain some significant power with a solid flat tappet.
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You forgot about me Brent. Soon as i get a chance to put my cam in the fairlane i will post the results.
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Not trying to derail the thread, but that recycling place is ripping people off with scales that are way off. That's not only illegal, but highly unethical. I think I'd be calling somebody about that.
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Not trying to derail the thread, but that recycling place is ripping people off with scales that are way off. That's not only illegal, but highly unethical. I think I'd be calling somebody about that.
another ripoff is gas pumps.i have a nice race gas can,well marked and accurate measurements on the side.a local store offers 93 no ethanol,so i took my can to the store and bought 5 gallons.it only showed 4 1/4 gallons in the can.i told the manager and she told me later i was right,she had it checked.same thing happened when i got 5 gallons of 110 leaded at another store,4 1/2 gallons for 5
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If you want to stay hydraulic, I don't think I can help you much. If you want to go solid, I could pick you up some ponies.
Brent,i will be contacting you for a solid flat tappet cam and lifters.the 292 hyd is a good hyd cam for what it is,but with the rest of my combo if you think a good solid cam will help,im all for it
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Not trying to derail the thread, but that recycling place is ripping people off with scales that are way off. That's not only illegal, but highly unethical. I think I'd be calling somebody about that.
another ripoff is gas pumps.i have a nice race gas can,well marked and accurate measurements on the side.a local store offers 93 no ethanol,so i took my can to the store and bought 5 gallons.it only showed 4 1/4 gallons in the can.i told the manager and she told me later i was right,she had it checked.same thing happened when i got 5 gallons of 110 leaded at another store,4 1/2 gallons for 5
i would just about bet that most or a big percent of gas stations pumps are off some and nobody catches it.on a 20 gallon fillup you could be way overcharged!
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The comet is really under 3000 lb???
No way, Jose.
update,i took my comet and had it weighed. you guys were right it weighed 3480 with me in it.im 250,plus a toolbox and a full tank of gas.looks like about 3200 without me and the toolbox.im still happy with that,but its not under 3000.i could shed the exhaust,tools,and a couple more things and maybe get close to 3100 without me in it.
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The comet is really under 3000 lb???
No way, Jose.
update,i took my comet and had it weighed. you guys were right it weighed 3480 with me in it.im 250,plus a toolbox and a full tank of gas.looks like about 3200 without me and the toolbox.im still happy with that,but its not under 3000.i could shed the exhaust,tools,and a couple more things and maybe get close to 3100 without me in it.
The only mature adult response to this is "Neener, neener, Jose!!". You owe me cheezburgr.
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I have that same cam in a 428 with Edelbrock heads in my Fairlane. It has a toploader and 4.11 gears and it performs pretty well. I was tempted to swap it for a solid flat tappet a few years back. I ran it by Brent and he thought it would run much better with a SFT cam.
If I was going to continue to run this engine in my car I'd have Brent spec me a cam and valve springs. I have the engine sold so I'll leave this to the next guy.
I think if you make the swap you won't be disappointed. Brent is really good at spec'n out cams.
garyv
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Did you ever pick a different cam? My guess with the rpm you are pulling now and again, the current setup is likely screaming bloody murder. You'd likely see it on a dyno
I think you'd gain some valve train control on the upper end and make some power with the right SFT and a good set of matching springs set up properly.
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im going to change the oil one more time and enjoy it till cold weather,then im going to holler at Bret for a SFT cam kit for a winter project.