FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: FElony on June 05, 2018, 01:43:42 PM
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Anybody use one of these yet? Since this requires whacking the trans bell flush to the pump bolts, I am assuming/hoping that it might work with the later truck 4R mod transmissions. And, dare I dream, the 6R if the pump bolt pattern is the same.
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Not yet, but they have a bell for the FE/AOD and the FE/AOD-E. Not sure what the difference is????
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Don't you have an inside contact over there, Agent Lykinsky?
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After they were bought out by Holley, it's hard to get any kind of useful information out of them. It's actually horrible.
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This has to be a recent product. If the quality is there, I can't imagine why every member of this forum wouldn't pick up a couple, maybe more for stocking stuffers. All those thousands of posts moaning over gear ratios would be gone. 5.14's out back gets 3.50 in high.
Can you imagine a 6R80 with after-market steering wheel paddle-shifters behind an FE? I have wood. Huge wood. Wood so huge and frightening that even Swedish flute flies wouldn't come near it.
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Watch out for the woodpeckers FElony ;D
Or this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts
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Retail on them is like over $900. I can help you guys out a little, but maybe if you'd get away from those sissy-sticks.........................................
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Watch out for the woodpeckers FElony ;D
Or this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts
How in the blazes did you get a hold of Justine Trudeau's music playlist?
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Watch out for the woodpeckers FElony ;D
Or this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts
How in the blazes did you get a hold of Justine Trudeau's music playlist?
I have wathced from the dark corners of the right yards and seen things
that you cant make unseen. So i have my thumbs in the eyes of the right
peoples ;D
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Did you see this build ?
https://www.fordfe.com/4r70w-transmission-is-done-t110660.html
I am looking to go this route, so I did a little research, so here are some links I've found:
http://www.usshift.com/4r70w.shtml
http://www.performanceautomatic.com/news.php/
http://www.broaderperformance.com/ford-aode-4r70w/94-4r70w-transmission-package.html
https://pbhperformance.com/shop/pbh-built-6r80-automatic/
http://www.tciauto.com/tc/gear-ratios/
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Yes, I have seen most of those pages, but it's been a little while and some of the tech has changed. For my own use, what I'm looking for is full manual control of a 4R behind a moderate-level engine. Previous mount solutions from a couple places were less elegant and more expensive than this Quick Time piece. As for the two models, it seems that the AOD and the AOD/4R70W have different pump patterns. Unknown right now if the 6R is different in this regard, or if it's possible to make it full manual. US Shift appears to have upgraded their line.
So, a few changes since last I looked into this. Years ago I also researched paddle shifters; I'm going to bet there are more choices now. I think I'll shay-shay into Click-Click and do some yack-yack there. Lots of trucks in the yards, but the trick is to snag the trans before the rebuilders get them. If the 6R is not realistic (have not checked dimensions yet), then a 4R75E is the target. This is what my truck has. If I can find a core, I can build that for the truck (133k) and then use the replaced unit for an FE. The target vehicle has a manual C6 in it now with a Cheetah SCS shifter and 3.50's. I would use the previously-mentioned 5.14's with this setup. Maybe this group can keep this thread updated. Thanks for your input!
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Let me add two links to this topic:
Click Click forums: http://www.clickclickracing.com/forums/forum.php
CC's owner has his own biz: http://www.silverfoxtrans.com/silverfoxtrans.com/Home.html
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The Quicktime bell is not a "Bolt-In" application by any means. Just about 2 years ago, I went down this rather twisted road with my 390 powered '76 F-250. The C6 had taken a crap, and I had a AOD under the bench that I pulled out of my '83 F-150 when I scrapped that truck a few years earlier. The AOD ran fine when it was pulled, but had sat for some time. I had done a similar conversion in my '62 Merc Monterey wagon a few years earlier, using a Cruis-O bell and Broader built AOD, and that combo works great and drives wonderfully (cruises all day at 2100 rpms at 70 mph with a 325 Hp 352, 3.6 rear end and 29 in tires). I figured it wasn't that big of a leap from a 5000 lb fullsize wagon to a 3/4 ton truck and if I did my homework, the AOD should work well and be a fairly cheap conversion. I was quite wrong.
Yes. You have to chop the AOD bell off. Not a big deal for most of us. Here are the lessons I learned:
Expensive Lesson #1: The stock 12" convertor does not fit in the Quicktime bell (despite what it says on Holley's and Summits website). You need a custom convertor, basically an 11" (or smaller) "C6" style unit. This was accomplished by a phone call to Jay at Broader Transmissions. Those of you reading this are probably thinking Wait a minute, the C6 has a single input shaft, and the AOD has 2. You are right, this leads me to
Expensive Lesson #2: The AOD's twin input shafts (one is the lockup for the OD) cause 2 problems. Problem A: The twin input shaft is a weakness in the AOD, and behind a torquey motor like an FE, this is what typically breaks first (Especially with a "no-longer stock" 390 in a 7000 lb 3/4 Ton doing pulling duty). Problem B: The small input shaft sticks out too far. What I mean by this is with the shallow depth of the Quicktime housing, the small input shaft nearly protrudes into the pilot bearing area of the crank, making for a very difficult convertor build. Both of these problems are remedied by doing the single input shaft conversion on an AOD and removing the OD Lockup feature. Again, not a huge deal, but it was additional parts I had to buy, but it helps with the transmissions overall strength behind a big FE, but some efficiency is lost.
Expensive Lesson #3: The Quicktime housing does not align accurately with the crankshaft centerline when mounted directly to the pump face. I had to machine about 0.150" off the pump face so that the alignment ring of the Quicktime bell would engage the pump bore on the case and properly align. I smoked one pump learning this the hard way.
I pulled and installed the transmission probably about 4 or 5 times before I was comfortable with everything and was ready for some proper road testing. The problems continued from there. At first, the transmission would not shift when cold. It would shift great when warm, but would hold first until some temp got into the trans. Then each gear would come on line as it got warmer and warmer. In 10 to 30 deg F ambients, this would take 5 to 10 miles. Rebuilt the trans twice with 3 different valve bodies and 2 governors, and it never did fix the problem. Also, we had a hell of a time getting that small torque convertor's stall down low enough. Initially it started out around 2400/2500 rpm. This was fine at low speeds and around town, but when you tried to cruise along at 75+ mph (free way speeds in the Dakotas) it would build too much heat and cook the fluid. Once I got the torque convertor stall down to a decent level (1800 rpm, no easy feat with a 450+ ft-lb 390 in a heavy pickup and small diameter convertor), then it would shift fine when cold but start acting up once warm by skipping shifts, missing 1st, skipping 2, and not downshifting properly. After 18 months of farting around and pulling it out more times then I care to talk about, a C6 was sourced and back in that went. I will just deal with the 3000 rpms at 65 for now.
Hind-sight being 20-20, I would have just taken the NP435 I also have under the bench, changed flywheels, added a clutch pedal and Ranger Range Splitter (I have one of these behind the 6.9 IDI in my '85 F350 and absolutely love it). I would have been way ahead in both the money and headache categories. The other good option would have been to send the Quicktime housing and trans to Broader like I did with the '62 Merc and let him build it. I know Jay would have had it working right.
I can't answer if it would bolt to a newer 4R or 6R pump, but I think the same issues would be encountered.
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I am in the midst of doing this right now . NO , its not a bolt in buy YES it works just fine . As mentioned you need to do some milling and mods to the AOD to make it work like we need it to work and as mentioned you need to run a C6 style converter.
The AOD is proving to be a good trans with the right parts in it and of course you can run that steep gear without the penalty.
I will post up pics of this while its going along if there is any interest .
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Frozenmerc
Did the AOD fit the 62 without cutting the floor?
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Retail on them is like over $900. I can help you guys out a little, but maybe if you'd get away from those sissy-sticks.........................................
That should put some splinters in FElony's stick. 8) Them adapter bells are big bucks, but work really well.
>After they were bought out by Holley, it's hard to get any kind of useful information out of them. It's actually horrible.
Heard that about several of the companies that are now under that same roof. Lived in corporate Big World for a while. Lots of formerly independent units forced into the same house can make for an easy train wreck.
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Frozenmerc
Did the AOD fit the 62 without cutting the floor?
Yes. Well Sort Of.....
What I mean by that is, my '62 had sat in a tree row along the north side of a North-Western Minnesota field since 1975. When I pulled it out in 2006, that alkali soil had done a number on the floor, I ended up replacing the bottom 8 inches or so of the car (floor, rockers, quarters, etc....) The AOD fit the new floor I fabricated, how close was that new floor to the original, I can't say. However, I did use reproduction Galaxie front floor pans and tunnel. The trans crossmember did require modification. The mount needed to be pushed rearward about 4 inches for the AOD.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4484/23839650878_7c227dbd2e_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4492/37022269013_fa76aa987b_b.jpg)
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:o Ouch that's worse than a Swedish car ;D. My Galaxie
Came to Sweden in may -81 so almost rust free. Pass rear
quarter had a bad repair the size of a stamp. So i don't want
to cut in my virgin floor.
But if you used a repro tunnel and it fits without cutting it
probably will fit a factory tunnel. Is it close somewhere?
I suppose 62 is the same as 64
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Since I used the original Cruis-O-matic bellhousing adapted to the AOD pump, it is very similar in size to the original Cruis-O, just a bit longer in the tail section. I don't know how the Quicktime bell compares to a Cruis-O bell, my guess is they are similar, I never had both out of the cars at the same time to compare. I used the Quicktime bell in my '76 F-250, and there was all kinds of room in that thing.
My buddy put an AOD behind the 428 in his '64 Marauder. He used the Bendsten's adaptor plate which is 1 1/2" thick and pushes the entire trans back that much. His bell was very tight to the firewall, and I think he even cheated the motor forward a bit on the mounts. Headers were an even bigger problem with the Bendsten's Adaptor, much cutting and massaging was required there.
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If i do it i convert it my self with a C-O-M bellhousing
Its tight enough stock i don't understand why
They made the tunnel so small on the Fullsize
TKO 600 you have to cut ,,,I think a toploader with
Gearvendors OD you have to cut