FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: jayb on December 06, 2017, 08:46:01 PM
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This year I'm displaying my products at the PRI show in Indianapolis. Drove all day to the show yesterday and spent most of the day today setting up the booth. I have a few new products to display at the show, plus the normal parts. This post is a quick overview of the display and products.
Here's the booth after it has all been set up. The booth number is 7137:
(https://s20.postimg.org/k361y1jal/booth.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The photo below shows some of the valve cover prototypes that I have machined recently. The day before Thanksgiving I finally got some prototype valve cover castings with the surface finish quality that I require. Its been exasperating that it has taken this long, but I think the foundry has it right now and can deliver good quality castings. I expect to get the first production order of castings in January. A couple of the castings have been powder coated, and some have been engraved; I will be offering these options to the folks on my valve cover list when I get the production batch.
Also of note in this photo is a 351C Hilborn EFI setup, which of course bolts onto my intake adapter. It can be fitted with butterflies up to 2-5/8" diameter. Since I made over 900 HP with the 2-7/16" butterflies on the Hilborn setup on the SOHC, I'm sure this induction system is capable of those kinds of numbers:
(https://s20.postimg.org/q5donymzx/booth1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5l8uph78p/)
I'm also introducing some new products at the show. First is the billet intake shown in the two photos below. Some of you may have seen the red 3D printed version of this intake at the FE Reunion last April. I now have the machining programs written for this intake and have made my first prototype. There are a few minor machining errors but overall it looks pretty good I think. This manifold will bolt onto my standard 13001 intake adapter, or any 351C with stock type heads for that matter. It uses a Holley LSX top, but I am also considering machining a billet top for this intake. That would be more expensive, though. I am currently working on a similar intake to bolt onto my high riser intake adapter. Once that is finished, probably mid-January, I will be making both these billet intakes, plus my tunnel port billet intake (already shown in the Member Projects thread) available for general sale. Price on the billet intake for the #13001 will be $1500:
(https://s20.postimg.org/7brvrjh8d/billetintake1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s20.postimg.org/8e22a2km5/billetintake2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Next on the new product list is a set of SOHC rocker arms. These are unique in that they replace the needle bearings in the roller wheel with bronze bushings, like the more modern roller lifters. The rockers are drilled with oil holes so that the bushing is provided with full time pressure oiling. I have burned up way too many needle bearings in my SOHCs, with the resultant engine damage, and am looking forward to testing these rockers out on my engines. Assuming they pass muster after a summer of running and next year's Drag Week, I will make them available for sale. Photos of the rockers are below. Note that they have a roller tip, so they will require lash caps of varying thicknesses in order to set the lash:
(https://s20.postimg.org/t20po8de5/SOHCrockers1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s20.postimg.org/n130r5yhp/SOHCrockers2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Last, but not least, is the FE Power cylinder head I've been talking about for some time. The head design is not yet complete; it still needs the water jacket design, and a tweak or two to the intake port. But, for the most part the basic concept is done. Below is a picture of the intake port side of the head. The intake port is nearly the exact same size as a standard FE medium riser port. However, the port is raised substantially; the floor of the port is about 2" above the deck surface:
(https://s20.postimg.org/r6dxdn9al/FEPhead1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/na0lhnoax/)
With an intake port this high, of course the valve cover rail has to be raised as well. Way back when I was doing my intake adapter design for the high riser, I was thinking about doing my own cylinder head, so I had the HR intake adapter cast with the valve cover rail over an inch higher than a standard high riser valve cover rail. Basically, this means I can machine the high riser intake adapter casting to fit these ports, and maintain the standard FE valve cover rail shape, despite the radically raised ports in the heads. Basically, the valve cover rail is just raised up high enough on the heads and intake to clear the revised intake port.
I plan to make three different intake setups available that will fit this intake adapter. One will be a billet intake like the one shown previously, another will be a single four spider style intake, and the last will be a crossram style individual runner intake, which I hope to be able to design so that it will fit under the hood of a Mustang, Fairlane, or Torino. The billet intake and spider intake could be either carbed or EFI, but the crossram IR intake will be EFI only.
Along with the raised ports, they are also straightened, to take the hook out of the normal FE port. This requires radically offset rocker arms, a 1.4" offset on the intake rockers and a slight 0.1" offset on the exhausts, to clear the intake ports. The picture below shows the 3D printed rocker assembly. There are 8 3/8" bolts holding the stands in place to allow for big valve spring pressures, and end stand supports for the shafts of course. The shafts are normal FE size, but there are no through bolts to weaken the shafts and the oiling holes are positioned differently than stock. This valvetrain will still oil through the rocker shafts, like the stock oiling system.
(https://s20.postimg.org/6arn1un7x/FEPheadrockers.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
On the exhaust side, the ports are radically redone. They exit the heads at a 45 degree angle, or straight out horizontally with the engine in the car. Obviously, custom headers will be required, and the exhaust will not fit in a shock tower car without some shock tower surgery. A picture of the exhaust side of the head is shown below:
(https://s20.postimg.org/no1xgonnx/FEPhead2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tozmdraa1/)
The chambers, shown in the photos below, are similar to other modern, heart shaped chambers with a centrally located spark plug and plenty of quench area. Valve spacing is 2.025", and valve sizes are 2.25" on the intake and 1.65" on the exhaust, and valve stems are 5/16". The valve angle is also decreased to 11 degrees, from the standard FE angle of 13 degrees, and the valves have been moved in the chamber to provide better flow into the cylinder than the stock FE valve position.
(https://s20.postimg.org/9hm6lgzy5/FEPhead3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b9f5gdjax/)
Obviously, with such a radical revamp of the basic FE cylinder head, a lot of things on the engine have to change. If you want to run these heads, you will have to get the heads, the rockers and shafts, the intake adapter, the intake, and new pistons to match the revised valve location. Plus, you would have to build your own headers, and cut the shock towers if you have a shock tower car.
What's the payoff? Preliminary flow tests show that with the stock FE port size, the intake port flows 405 cfm at .700" lift, using a 4.25" bore for the cylinder. The exhaust flows 270 cfm at .700", into a 2" OD header pipe. The water jackets will be designed so that extensive porting will be possible. A 500 cfm FE intake port may be possible with this design, after porting. The photo below shows a 3D print of the ports:
(https://s20.postimg.org/k4fzqwv8t/FEPports.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Obviously, I'm a long way from having these available. But personally, I really want a set ;D I plan to finish the design of the water jackets and intake port soon, and then get the intake options designed and 3D printed. Next step would be to build a billet set of these heads for testing purposes on my 725 HP dyno mule. I would expect the heads to add 100+ HP over the ported Edelbrocks that are on that engine now. Assuming that testing all goes well, I will start looking into getting the heads and intakes cast and making a limited quantity available for sale.
I hope I get to see some forum members at the PRI show. Please stop by and introduce yourselves if you make it to Indy - Jay
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All the products look good but those heads are freaking awesome ! Great job Jay
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Very impressive Jay.
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Is it just me Im not getting any pictures
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Looks awesome, Jay! Sure would love to see a 400+ FE intake port. Flowed a D3 SBF head with 2.135" valve recently that went 410 cfm @ .750" The port volume was impressive. Would love to see a FE with similar flow capability. Hope yours can make it happen. Joe-JDC
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Very impressive stuff Jay. The heads are quite cool, I think i'd prefer the exhaust ports to look a little more normal than that and it could probably be done without harming those flow numbers... like the various "Cleveland" type heads, SC1's, etc.
Are the rocker shaft bolts angled inward as it appears? It looks like the intake side one must or they'd run off the head.
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Allllllllriiight! Those rockers sure look good! I meant to ask if the oiling passageways that you drilled gave you much trouble given the L/D?
Joe
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Very cool Jay.....As a machine fitter by trade and know the carnage of needle bearings all to well I am glad to see the switch to bushings...I really like the look of the billet intake....Well done
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Very impressive stuff Jay. The heads are quite cool, I think i'd prefer the exhaust ports to look a little more normal than that and it could probably be done without harming those flow numbers... like the various "Cleveland" type heads, SC1's, etc.
Are the rocker shaft bolts angled inward as it appears? It looks like the intake side one must or they'd run off the head.
Don't believe the OEM dog-legged ports could flow well enough, even with the raised and re-contoured design, to achieve anywhere near the flow Jay expects. I applaud the new design even though customs would be needed. Besides, it seems that merely due to the raised port, even with OEM dog-legs, a custom set of pipes would be required in any shock towered Ford.
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Looks awesome, Jay! Sure would love to see a 400+ FE intake port. Flowed a D3 SBF head with 2.135" valve recently that went 410 cfm @ .750" The port volume was impressive. Would love to see a FE with similar flow capability. Hope yours can make it happen. Joe-JDC
The booth looks great Jay! Talk about an impressive group of hard parts. The head is the real star! Love the entire design concept but especially the straight exhaust port design! Could you, when time permits, give us a run-through on how you essentially transferred (I guess) a CAD design to the actual head that we see? Was the head produced on the rapid prototyping 3D machine?
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Those heads are outstanding! I’ll be buying at least one set as soon as they’re available.
I love that you could make such radical changes and retain the stock valve cover. To me that’s
About the only part of the “fe” look that’s important. And the intake port spacing resembles a
tunnel port lol.
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Stating the obvious here, but that's some pretty neat stuff.
What are the SOHC rockers made of? I can't tell if they're aluminum or some sort of steel.
Just looking at the pictures, the chamber design of those heads look like they have a nice shape, but the contour around the intake valve looks like it could use some work. It probably always seems like I am picking out flaws on your new desgins, but I'm just trying to help point out some areas of importance. Manufacturers have come a long way in recognizing the importance of the chamber contour around the intake valve/valves in directing flow patterns into the cylinder, not only for flow, but most importantly for swirl patterns in aiding fuel mixture and flame control. I think the BBM heads were the first FE head to start to take advantage of this modern thinking. I'd spend some time researching what some of the newest engine designs are using to improve that area. There are lots of advantages to this area that they are just beginning to understand and incorporate into the latest designs. Just an opinion from somebody who has no real experience in design, so take it for what it's worth.
That billet intake just looks badass!!
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Stating the obvious here, but that's some pretty neat stuff.
What are the SOHC rockers made of? I can't tell if they're aluminum or some sort of steel.
The SOHC rockers are 4130 steel, much like T&D use for their good stuff. They should be bulletproof. I can't wait to set eyes on this stuff when I'm there Saturday!
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Any change in ratio on the new rockers?
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Awesome parts Jay!! Now i know what you have been up to the last 3 mo... I am studying the parts to see what i can adapt to a MEL or Y block!
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Jay,
Good luck at the show! Thanks for posting these--great stuff!
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Awesome! With a possible 500 cfm flow, we will also be needing a block to handle all that......
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I hope I get to see some forum members at the PRI show. Please stop by and introduce yourselves if you make it to Indy - Jay
I was really hoping to make it up there this year! Now that I see all the stuff you brought I'm kicking myself for not just going alone. Our friend John had a bunch of head work come in the door and he couldn't justify the trip, uncle Bob has a claim he's dealing with at work, so I was going to be going solo. Great looking stuff! It's a good time to be an FE nut.
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N/m
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man it warms my heart to see these new products.great job Jay! im sure you will be in the fe history book one day,and you will be a big part of it too.thank you for your time,experience,and dedication to the fe engine!!
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Very nice, Mr. Jay....
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Jay---
I hope you're getting at least 30 minutes of sleep per night! With your accomplishments, I can't imagine getting any more than that.
KS
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXN1yxax448
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The SOHC rockers are 4130 steel, much like T&D use for their good stuff. They should be bulletproof. I can't wait to set eyes on this stuff when I'm there Saturday!
I didn't think they looked beefy enough to be aluminum, and that would have been a pretty bad choice anyway. Hope they cure the problems he's had over the years.
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Thanks for all the comments, all the parts but especially the new parts got a lot of attention. We had a parade of FE notables come by the booth today, including Barry Rabotnick, Kurt Neighbor, Ohio George Montgomery, and Ray Pacquet. Ohio George said he wanted my autograph LOL! He has a copy of my book he wants me to sign. That made my day.
To answer some questions previously asked, drilling the 0.040" hole in the 4130 steel SOHC rocker body took a few attempts to get right, but after settling on the correct feeds and speeds, plus making sure to spot drill the hole before trying to drill through the whole rocker, it went along just fine. I had to run the feed at 0.5" per minute and the speed at 6000 RPM, and the holes went into the rockers without any problems. Also, the rockers are the standard SOHC ratio.
On the head design, after the part is designed in Solidworks it is a simple matter to save the Solidworks file as a .stl file. This is the file that is input into the 3D printer software. So there's no trick at all to converting the Solidworks file into a 3D print. Also, the combustion chamber is very similar to a couple chambers that I reviewed and analyzed on other modern inline valve engines, in fact nearly identical to one of them, so I'm confident it is fine as is.
Thanks again for all the compliments and comments, and again I hope to see some of our form members at the show tomorrow or Saturday - Jay
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Pretty cool stuff, Jay! I can't wait to see those heads in aluminum.
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Great line up of parts Jay. Nice that Ohio George wanted your autograph! If you remember I had to "drag" you over to his table at Beaver Springs last yr! Garry
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Thanks for all the comments, all the parts but especially the new parts got a lot of attention. We had a parade of FE notables come by the booth today, including Barry Rabotnick, Kurt Neighbor, Ohio George Montgomery, and Ray Pacquet. Ohio George said he wanted my autograph LOL! He has a copy of my book he wants me to sign. That made my day.
To answer some questions previously asked, drilling the 0.040" hole in the 4130 steel SOHC rocker body took a few attempts to get right, but after settling on the correct feeds and speeds, plus making sure to spot drill the hole before trying to drill through the whole rocker, it went along just fine. I had to run the feed at 0.5" per minute and the speed at 6000 RPM, and the holes went into the rockers without any problems. Also, the rockers are the standard SOHC ratio.
On the head design, after the part is designed in Solidworks it is a simple matter to save the Solidworks file as a .stl file. This is the file that is input into the 3D printer software. So there's no trick at all to converting the Solidworks file into a 3D print. Also, the combustion chamber is very similar to a couple chambers that I reviewed and analyzed on other modern inline valve engines, in fact nearly identical to one of them, so I'm confident it is fine as is.
Thanks again for all the compliments and comments, and again I hope to see some of our form members at the show tomorrow or Saturday - Jay
Thanks Jay on the SolidWorks to 3D printer follow-up. I didn't think your printer could make a part that big.
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I know its early Jay, but what do you think price range will be on heads?
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I see you were parked next to my 351C go-to guy Tim Meyer. I'm sure Tim saw that nice big ram. I'd love to put that on the dragster, just to scare people. 8)
Tell me about the single plane sitting between the stacks and the ram in Picture #2. 351C style on adapter? For sure a Dominator pad.
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I see you were parked next to my 351C go-to guy Tim Meyer. I'm sure Tim saw that nice big ram. I'd love to put that on the dragster, just to scare people. 8)
Tell me about the single plane sitting between the stacks and the ram in Picture #2. 351C style on adapter? For sure a Dominator pad.
I’m sure Jay will respond to your post, but I can answer on the intake - it’s a Yates port Edelbrock #2863 that’s been ported by Forum member Joe Craine on Joe’s FE Power intake adapter.
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Also, the combustion chamber is very similar to a couple chambers that I reviewed and analyzed on other modern inline valve engines, in fact nearly identical to one of them, so I'm confident it is fine as is.
Like I said, I'm no engineer, so you would know better than me. The way the intake valve is unshrouded on the roof side looks really nice, and much more than other designs I've seen.
Having Ohio George ask for your autograph...well, it just doesn't get much cooler than that! :)
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Another FE legend stopped by Jay’s booth today - Animal Jim! It was a lot of fun to talk FE’s and racing with him. I had to get a picture.
(https://s5.postimg.org/qs6ncjpx3/F124_B114-_B4_F7-4_E37-94_D7-16_CF6_BBDE1_FF.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mj1xadmnn/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MHGVyj65/F124-B114-B4-F7-4-E37-94-D7-16-CF6-BBDE1-FF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vgp4yT6x)
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Kevin is correct, that is an Edelbrock 2863 intake on one of my #13006 intake adapters, which has then been ported by Joe Craine. Looking forward to running that one, as well as the Hilborn injector setup, on my dyno mule soon...
On the heads, I'm going to sell a complete package including the heads, the rocker arm assemblies (shafts, rockers, and stands), the valves (stock FE valves will not fit), a header flange for the exhaust ports, and the intake adapter for about $5000. I'm envisioning three intakes to fit the intake adapter, or of course you could make your own. The three intakes would be a single 4 spider type intake with a 4500 flange, split down the middle of the plenum for ease in porting (~$600), a billet 2X4 intake like the one for the #13001 adapter ($1500), or an individual runner crossram style intake, which would be EFI only but would fit under the hood of a Mustang or Fairlane ($1500). By the way, the heads will require studs, but standard studs like ARPs or whatever comes with your aftermarket block will work. A extra cost option will be a valve job, springs, retainers, locks, seals and seats.
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Jay, It was good seeing you, your north country team and the new products. It was the highlight of our PRI trip. Little did we realize the parade of VIPs that hovered around your display. We are looking forward to production. Thanks for the tour. See you in April. Jim Vaughn and Barnhart Automotive.
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Good to meet you Jay. I enjoyed our conversation and I'm pretty impressed with what you have so far on the head. Looking forward to watching the progress.
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(https://s5.postimg.org/taafdl1lz/AFAB1_D4_A-_D5_ED-418_C-_BF0_C-87_A97_C6_AAB06.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iap81zb6r/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0TTvJts/AFAB1-D4-A-D5-ED-418-C-BF0-C-87-A97-C6-AAB06.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XBCcyrfW)
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Another FE legend stopped by Jay’s booth today - Animal Jim! It was a lot of fun to talk FE’s and racing with him. I had to get a picture.
(https://s5.postimg.org/qs6ncjpx3/F124_B114-_B4_F7-4_E37-94_D7-16_CF6_BBDE1_FF.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mj1xadmnn/)
Hey, a big shout out to fellow Illinoisan Big Jim! We saw his '57 Merc in 1972 at Rockford Dragway and liked it a lot. Little did we know then just how expansive his future Ford drag race program would become!
http://www.animaljimracing.com/gallery.html
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I'll put a down payment on a set of those heads right now....gonna take some figuring to fab headers for the Cobra, but it'll be one of a kind.
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Whozzat in the yellow shirt? Ray Paquet?
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Nope, that is Kurt Neighbor.
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I think the BBM heads were the first FE head to start to take advantage of this modern thinking.
More like the third - or fourth if you include the Losito billet. But your other comments are good and worth noting. Chamber shape will not always show up on a flow bench,but makes a significant difference in the engine.
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Nope, that is Kurt Neighbor.
I could have just guessed "the guy with the Super Stock TBolt" and would have been right! :-[
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Thanks you Jay, for letting us be a part of the FE Power team. Was a great event, and got to meet a lot of good FE people. Hope to do it again next year.
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>Kevin is correct, that is an Edelbrock 2863 intake on one of my #13006 intake adapters, which has then been ported by Joe Craine.
Thanks, that too far a-field from what I'm doing. Always on the lookout for a Funnelweb type since almost none are available. Lots of domestic or domestically stocked items for a good 351C build until you get to intakes, then it kinda peters out. AFD and Funnelweb spider type will work on some heads and stock filled but the rest are mates to their head brothers - CHI, Edelbrock, TFS, etc.
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Barry and I were there at the same time looking over that head! That will make some power. All your stuff is well thought out , glad you had a good show like we did.
Randy
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Glad I’m inline for a set of those valve covers like the blue set, but man!! You show us that concept heads and then say limited production! Hahaha! I’ll be keeping an eye out
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Awesome looking stuff, Jay. Can't wait to see the ported Edelbrock 2863 intake/13006 adaptor on the 504 mule.
Animal Jim could easily pass for Neil Young these days. Lol
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I hope you (Jay) have time to finish that cylinder head and do some testing ... that's by far the coolest head for FE that's still a TRUE inline Valve head , This probably best news for FE since the aftermarket block came out
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:)
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Awesome looking stuff, Jay. Can't wait to see the ported Edelbrock 2863 intake/13006 adaptor on the 504 mule.
Animal Jim could easily pass for Neil Young these days. Lol
"Keep on rocken in the FE world"
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Jay
How close are push rods to ports on these heads?
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They come about 1/4" from the lower left corner of the intake port.
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Amazing stuff, Jay. Thanks for shaking up the FE world.
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"Keep on rocken in the FE world"
A witty comment as usual Steve.. I think that should go as a tag line on a Fe Power LLC sticker
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"Keep on rocken in the FE world"
Jay, Frieburger HAS to be a Neil Young fan...Make sure he gets a sticker
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"Keep on rocken in the FE world"
Jay, Frieburger HAS to be a Neil Young fan...Make sure he gets a sticker
Except drop "The"..........smile
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KMcCullah............see what you started
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Hey...Just like Freiburger....he's probably a "closeted" FE guy. Somebody "tweet" him an invite.....