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FE Power Forums => Member Projects => Topic started by: jayb on September 30, 2017, 12:15:03 PM

Title: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on September 30, 2017, 12:15:03 PM
With my 68 Mustang fastback finished up and no time pressure on getting the engine in my race car back together, I'm FINALLY
getting around to fixing up my 68 Shelby GT-500 convertible.  The car has been apart and up on jackstands since 2003, so it
is a long overdue project.  I'm about a week into it now, and have been surprised at all the memories that have come flooding
back as I have been working on this car.  So, I thought I would take some time to jot down a little about the car, and my history
with it.  In fact, this car is the primary reason that I am a high performance and Ford enthusiast; it is an integral part of my
personal history, and I can't imagine what would have become of me without it.

Before I start, here are a few warnings.  If you are a purist, GET OUT of this thread LOL!  I'm not doing a stock
restoration on this vehicle, and what I am going to do with it will certainly offend you.  In the shape that I bought it, it
was not a good restoration candidate anyway.  A long time ago a good friend of mine told me, "Stockers are boring".  I agree
with him, and have no interest in restoring the car to stock.

Second, bear in mind that I purchased this car when I was a kid of 19.  I had no idea what I was doing, but I wanted to go
fast.  The car was not valuable back then, so all modifications were on the table.  Plus, like most of us I was learning as
I went along.  I screwed up with this car a lot, but its nearer and dearer to my heart than any other car I've ever owned,
and I was lucky enough to hang onto it all these years.  Over the course of the next year I hope to restore it to its former
glory, and someday pass it along to one of my kids when I finally take the dirt nap.

Lastly, some of what is written below describes illegal speed and racing activities.  These may be true, or I may just be
making them up for your amusement ;-) 

My saga with this car starts back in about 1977, when I was driving a 67 Mustang fastback that my dad had given me for high
school graduation in the spring of 1976.  That was my first car; it had a 289 and a C4, with 3.00 gears.  It was completely
rusted out, but in the summer of 1976 I filled all the holes with fiberglass and bondo and had a friend of mine paint it in
his garage.  I thought it looked pretty good, although in hindsight the paint job was terrible LOL!.  Nevertheless, I was
interested in making it faster, so I cut off the factory exhaust and installed Cherry Bomb glasspacks.  Now the car sounded
more like I wanted it to sound, but of course the mufflers dragged on the ground over bumps.  This necessitated the next
purchase, a set of air shocks from JC Whitney.  The car still had the stock F70-14 tires and hub caps on it, but I jacked it
way up in the air with the air shocks anyway.  Even back then I could tell it looked kind of stupid, but at least the
mufflers didn't drag anymore ;D  Next came a Holley 500 cfm two barrel carb (couldn't afford an intake and a four barrel), and
then I found a used set of headers with a couple holes in them for 20 bucks.  I bought one of those SolidOx torch setups
from Sears, brazed the holes shut (my first brazing or welding project), and installed the headers on the car, with new
pipes back to the Cherry Bombs.  Finally was able to let some air out of the air shocks.

At that point I thought the car was fast (of course it wasn't), but I wanted to go faster, so I began looking at more serious
performance gear.  In the winter of 1977 an ad appeared in the local paper, offering 289 HiPo rods for sale.  Just to show you
how green I was, I thought the seller was talking about pushrods LOL!  Anyway, I called on the ad and went to see them.  The
seller was a big Mustang and Shelby guy, and after I bought the set of rods for $40, he showed me some of his cars.  They were
in the basement of his business, and I remember seeing a 66 Shelby down there, but what really got my attention was his 68
Shelby convertible.  It was fitted with Cragar S/S mags, and had a 428 CJ installed, from a 69 Torino Cobra.  No exhaust
system, and no transmission.  The seller told me that the car had been originally a GT-350, and when he had purchased it a few
years earlier it had the GT-350 stripes above the rocker panels and had been equipped with a Boss 302 engine that didn't run
right.  The seller had pulled that engine and found that the compression was way down in the 8s somewhere, and decided to
drop in the 428CJ.  Interestingly, the dash said GT-500, not GT-350.  I remember asking the seller about that at some point
and he said that those emblems were easily obtained and probably somebody just stuck that one on there; he was sure it was a
GT-350 originally.  The seller had also painted the car Signal Flare Red; it had originally been gold, although I don't know
if that was the color it was when he bought it.  It looked great even in that dark basement, but without an exhaust system or
transmission, it was an unfinished project.

Anyway, the seller, who turned out to be a super nice guy, had lots of interesting parts for a small block so I became a
regular up at his shop.  I was going to school and working part time, so I was often able to get up there during the day and
buy some parts from him.  In the summer of 1977 my tires were wearing out, and I was pretty tired of my fancy paint job combined
with hubcaps.  I remembered those Cragar S/S mags the seller had, so I went up there and offered to buy them, and the tires,
from him.  I told him I'd just swap my wheels and tires onto his 68 Shelby, and put the Cragars and tires on my car.  Can't
remember what I paid him for them, but he agreed to the deal, and my 67 Mustang looked a lot better with those wheels and
tires, that's for sure.  Later, the seller told me that he had tried to move the Shelby a few weeks after I bought the wheels
and tires, but it wouldn't budge.  The Shelby had front discs, and my 67 Mustang had four wheel drums, and the wheels wouldn't
clear the brake calipers!  He had to scrounge up another set of wheels for the front of the Shelby in order to move it.  I
felt kind of bad about that whole thing, but oh well.

Later that fall I started seeing ads from the seller in the local paper, advertising the 68 Shelby for sale.  As a poor college
student I didn't have close to the $3200 asking price, so I had no prayer of getting the car.  But through the fall it continued
to appear in the paper. 

One day in January 1978 I was up at the seller's shop, and on a whim told him I might be interested in buying the Shelby. 
He gave me permission to take a good close look at it, so I went down to his basement with a flashlight and crawled all
around the car.  It had been fairly recently painted but some of the paint was bubbling in the door corners and the quarter
panels, so I knew there had to be some rust there.  Crawling underneath the car, I found rust holes in both driver and passenger
side floorpans, and was able to pull some large hunks of metal out of the bottom of the rockers; later I figured out that these
were parts of the inner rocker panels, which are very strong on convertibles in order to keep the cars straight.  I also noticed
that two different serial numbers were stamped into the Shelby data plate under the hood, and the data plate on the door was missing,
apparently the result of the recent paint job.  I pointed those things out to the seller, and told him I wanted to think
about buying the car a little more.

Well, there was no way I could pay even close to the asking price of the car, I was lucky to have $100 in my checking account
at any given time back then.  But I started thinking about proposing a deal with the seller to take payments on the car.  He
had been unsuccessful trying to sell it through the paper so I thought he might be receptive to that.  I made some inquiries
at work and found that I could potentially work more hours if I wanted, and after doing a budget analysis I figured that if
I really watched my expenses I could afford to pay $300 a month on the car.  That was a pretty big payment back in 1978.

I went back to see the seller on February 10, 1978, and we struck a deal on the car for $2800.  I promised to give him
payments of about $300 per month until the car was paid off.  In the meantime, he agreed to let me work on the car while it
was still in the basement of his building, which was a huge plus for me.  At the time I was I was living at home with my
parents, and there was no room for a non-mobile vehicle there.  I planned to get the parts I needed as I could along the way,
until the car was fully functional, then when paid off I could drive it home.

After we made this deal, of course I became extremely motivated to earn extra money.  I wasn't going to slap some junk on this
car, I wanted a good set of headers, a good flywheel and clutch setup, etc.  I began trying to get all the extra hours possible
at work, and doing whatever side jobs I could come up with, so I could afford the parts to get the car running.  Through the
months of February, March, April, and May, I earned enough extra income to buy a set of Hooker headers, a McCleod 11-1/2"
clutch, pressure plate, and a Lakewood scattershield, and a used toploader to fit into the car.  The headers were
a nightmare to install for someone with no experience and limited tools.  I ended up renting a floor jack so I could get the
engine up off the mounts and slide the headers into position.  Then I had more trouble getting the mounts lined back up and
the through-bolt installed.  This was also my first experience installing a transmission, so I got familiar with sliding the
trans from between my legs and onto my chest while I was laying on my back under the car, then bench pressing it into position
and pushing it into place.  What a workout, especially since it took about 20 tries to get the alignment right so the trans
would go all the way in.  I also purchased a Hurst Super Shifter for the transmission, on the advice of a fellow I knew who
was older and much more experienced with this stuff than I was.  The tunnel on the car had already been butchered by some
previous owner, so the shifter fit with only a little more trimming of the sheet metal.  But needless to say, there was a
big hole in the tunnel where the shifter came through. 

Finally, the big day in May arrived where I could start the car.  After pouring some fuel down the carb throat I was able to
get it to fire, but as it ran there was a loud clanging coming from the bellhousing.  I quickly shut it off and got under there
to take a look.  Peering through the opening for the clutch fork I could see that the bolt heads on the Long-style pressure
plate were hitting against the bellhousing.  The whole thing had to come apart, and after the bellhousing came off I ground
down the heads of the bolts to what I thought was a minimum thickness.  Back together, and the problem was better, but the
bolt heads were still hitting.  After a week of asking questions, I finally realized that I had installed the ring washer with
the six holes for the flywheel bolts between the crank and the flywheel, not between the flywheel and the flywheel bolts.  I
assumed it was a spacer, not a washer, and I could have sworn that when I took the flywheel off, that's where it had been
located, so I just put it back there.  Finally, after reassembly in the correct fashion, I had no more contact between the
bolt heads and the bellhousing.  The engine sounded good, and had good oil pressure.  I was starting to get pretty excited.

Then came the test drive.  I had swapped the Cragar S/S wheels and tires from my 67 Mustang back onto the Shelby, and was ready
to sell the Mustang as soon as I could drive the Shelby.    I really needed the money at that point, too LOL!.  (By the way,
selling my first car, the 67 Mustang fastback, is something I will always regret, and one reason why I bought the 68 fastback
"Memorial Day Weekend Project" that I have now.  I just love those cars...)  I had never driven a high performance stick car
before, having learned to drive a stick shift in a Volkswagen Beetle, and I thought it would be prudent to have the seller
take it for the first drive.  We backed it out of the basement, rolled out of the dirt driveway and onto the road. Everything
went fine in first gear, then came the shift, and the car quit accelerating.  Despite revving the engine, the car rolled to a stop
about 150 feet down the road.  We were sitting there scratching our heads wondering what was wrong, when the seller looked down
and said, "There's your problem.  There's a hole in your transmission!"  Sure enough, there was a big hole in the tailshaft housing. 
How did that get there?

We pushed the car back down the road, into the driveway and back into the basement.  As you may have guessed, the hole in the
tailshaft housing got there because the tailshaft exploded on the 1-2 shift LOL!.  The trans was a toploader, but it had been
in a small block car.  Back then I thought all toploaders were the same.  Another lesson learned...

The Shelby sat for the next couple weeks as I scrounged for the money to buy another transmission.  I went to a local junkyard
and found another toploader, this time from a 351C Mustang.  Of course, the output shaft was larger so I needed a new yoke,
and there was no driveshaft that fit so I had to have mine modified.  But, finally, in June I had the car back together, and
this time the test drive was a success.

I couldn't wait to drive the car, but it still wasn't paid for, so I talked my Dad into co-signing a note for $1000 with me,
and at the end of June I presented the check to the seller.  Even with that the car was still not completely paid off, but he
let me take it anyway.  I ended up paying off the car in October.

Driving out of the basement and onto the road, I was extremely cautious with the car at first.  The 428 Cobra Jet was a
legendary engine to me, and I was scared of it at first.  Through the 45 minute drive home I started to feel a little more
at ease with it.  Then, finally, on an off-ramp from the freeway close to where I lived, I opened it all the way up.  I had
never felt such acceleration before; holy crap!  I instantly became an FE guy.  No more small blocks for me!

Back in the late 1970s there weren't the quality aftermarket parts available that we have today, and despite enjoying every moment
of driving the car, I dealt with several recurring problems.  One was cooling.  The car simply would not stay cool in city
traffic.  It had a 3 core factory radiator and a flex fan, but no shroud, and it would quickly overheat on warm days if I had
to sit in traffic for more than five minutes or so.  I planned my trips in the car to avoid any possibility of traffic jams. 
Also, once it got hot it would refuse to crank over.  There was no MSD with spark retard, or gear reduction starters, or
coated headers to limit the heat that the starter saw.  I must have gone through five starters that summer trying to solve
the starting problem.  I began to try to park backwards on hills, so that if the car wouldn't start I could roll down the
hill and pop the clutch in 3rd gear to get the engine started. 

Despite the issues I loved the car, and even back then people would point and wave when they saw me driving it.  Several times
that summer I came back to the car after parking it at work, and there were notes on the car offering to purchase it.  But
there was no way I was going to let it go.  I drove everywhere with the top down; I HATED to put the top up.  And if ever there
was a chick magnet, this car was it!  One Saturday when my parents were out of town my brother had a party, and invited these
three girls he knew who lived quite a distance away.  They knew about my car, and told my brother he had to send me to get
them.  I drove to their place with a friend of mine.  On the way back, on the freeway, they all decided to sit up on the back
seat of the car and hold onto the roll bar.  I quickly discovered that as I accelerated past 70 MPH their shirts would blow open,
and of course they were bra-less.  My friend and I fought over the rear view mirror to get a better look all the way back home LOL!

As time went by that summer I began to do some research on Shelby Mustangs, and my car in particular.  Riveted on the fender
apron under the hood was the Shelby data tag.  In the books I had taken out of the library on these cars (no internet for
research on these cars back then, of course) there were pictures of these data tags with the serial number of the car stamped
into them.  But my data tag looked different; it actually had two serial numbers stamped into it.  One number matched the car's
VIN number on the dash tag, but the other was a completely different sort of number. I spoke with the seller about this at some
point because I couldn't imagine how the car could have two serial numbers.  The seller swore it was an original Shelby,
but he couldn't explain the two serial numbers either.  This situation kept me baffled, and a little uneasy about the car's
heritage, for almost 20 years.

However, judging from the one number stamped into the plate, and the same number on the dash, the car was an original big
block car.  The engine code was "S", which is the code used for 1968 GT-500s.  Those cars came with the 428 Police Interceptor
engine; the later GT-500KR Shelbys came with the "R" code, and the 428 Cobra Jet engine.  So, my car was originally a
GT-500, not a GT-350 like the seller had told me.  That made me happy, because I had no intention of pulling out that 428! It
also meant that when I had purchased the car it was on at least its third engine, because the seller had pulled the Boss 302
out of it.

Eventually that great summer ended, and winter began to approach.  I was not going to drive the car in the winter months, so I
bought my first winter beater, a 67 Galaxie, for $75.  It had a 390 and a C6, and it survived until April when it blew a rear
wheel bearing and I junked it.  But despite a very cold winter, that 390 never failed to start.  No block heater, no garage,
and it always started reliably.  It became more reinforcement for my affection for the FE.  Shortly after that I purchased
another Galaxie, a 69 two door fastback, also with a 390 and C6.  That was a pretty nice car, and I had to pay $600 for it, but
I wanted another car because I had decided to go through the engine on the Shelby.  It had been using some oil, and I was
anxious to tear it down and rebuild it. 

I arranged to use a friend's garage for the summer to get the car apart, since there was no room at home.  I yanked the engine
with a rented engine hoist and tore it down to find one of the strangest failures I've ever seen.  The oil slinger on the
crank was damaged, and half of it was broken off and just laying in the groove in the main cap when I took it apart.  Also,
the #5 main cap and the block was cracked in that groove; it looked like the broken piece had gotten wedged between the
slinger that was still attached to the crank and the cap/block, and cracked both the cap and the block as it forced its way
past.  I ended up buying a used 428 PI short block, and getting it bored to fit my pistons, before I could get the engine
back together with new rings and bearings.  Took the whole summer, and I got it running just in time to put it away for
the winter again.

The summer of 1980 I drove the car a lot, and went to a bunch of local car shows with it, plus some national events like the US
Nationals at Indy, and the Performance Ford Club of America show in Columbus Ohio.  I was enjoying the heck out of the car, but
by the end of the summer I was noticing a serious problem with the car.  On both sides, but especially on the driver's side, the
gap between the top of the doors and the front fenders and quarter panels was pretty much gone.  The car was sagging in the
middle, due to the rust issue.  The inner rocker panels were severely rusted out, and with no roof to hold the car together,
the structural integrity was pretty much gone.  At the end of the summer I pulled the engine and transmission out again, gutted
the interior, and flat towed the car to a guy's shop, who was experienced with chassis work.  Back then, of course, there were
no patch panels or replacement panels to speak of available for the car.  After discussing this with the chassis guy, we decided
to add some bars onto the factory roll bar to straighten the car out.  The chassis guy ran a bar forward on each side from the
factory roll bar, just below the factory padding, to another bar installed across the car just under the dash.  He did the same
basic thing in the rear.  This was all done after the car was up on jack stands and straightened out so that the door gaps were
back where they were supposed to be.  He also added some bracing in the floor pan, between the convertible seat pan and the rear
torque boxes. 

To this day, those modifications have kept the car straight.  Unfortunately, it took the chassis guy over a year to get the work
done, so I didn't get the car back until the spring of 82.  I got the car back together and drove it again that summer, but
on the way back from a softball game late in the year I was showing off for a friend in the car and overrevved the engine.
 The sound of the engine changed, and I was still 20 minutes from home, but I drove it the rest of the way home anyway.  By the
time I got back home the engine was clattering pretty good despite the fact that I still had oil pressure, and when I pulled
the valve covers I found that I had dropped a valve in #5.  Obviously the hydraulic lifters had pumped up, the valve had kissed
the piston, and that was that.  The #5 cylinder was completely shot, with a big hole in it, and the oil was filled with water
from the cooling system.  I found the #5 exhaust valve in the left side header.  It amazed me that the engine still ran well
enough to get me home after all this damage.

At least it was the end of the year, so I pulled the engine again and took it into a local machine shop, where the machinist
had a good reputation.  He looked at the block and said he could sleeve it.  The number 5 rod was bent, so I had to get a
replacement, but the crank was still dead straight.  The next spring the engine was back together and running fine.  I still
have that engine; it spent some time in my Mach 1 when I first acquired that car, it was the basis for my 428 Dyno Mule
described in my book, and it now resides in my 68 Mustang and is driven regularly.  The sleeve has never leaked, or given me
a bit of trouble.

About this time the magazines started running articles featuring what they called "Cafe Racers", these were 60s musclecars
with big tires and fender flares, lowered with suspension mods to make them handle corners better.  I really liked the
looks of those cars, and with the Shelby name associated with road racing success, thought my car was a natural for that
approach.  I also had another goal for the car in mind; back then the national speed limit was 55 MPH.  I wanted my car
to be able to TRIPLE the national speed limit, and go 165 MPH with the top down.  Lowering the car and improving the tires
and suspension would help me with that goal.

The car also was ready for paint, so in 1984 I set to work converting the car to a road race configuration.  Centerline had
come out with their Champ 500 wheels, which I thought were really cool.  I bought four of them, and then another four of
the standard auto/drag wheels, because I needed a specific offset and width for the BF Goodrich Comp T/A tires I wanted to
run.  I drilled all the rivets out of all 8 Centerline wheels, then picked the rim halves I needed to get a 9-1/2" front
wheel width and 10-1/2" back wheel width, with offsets to set the wheels as far inboard as possible.  I bolted the wheels
back together and sealed them along the rim joint, which gave me the most unique set of wheels in town.  I used 225/50VR-15
Comp T/As in front and 275/50VR-15 Comp T/As in the rear.

Next, I did the Shelby drop to the front upper A-Arms and boxed them, plus boxed the lower control arms.  I went with the
620 pound front coil springs that were popular for Mustang road racers back then, plus cut a coil and half off to make them
even stiffer, and lower the front end of the car.  I replaced all the rubber bushings with polyurethane bushings, added a leaf
to the rear springs and had them re-arched to stiffen them up and lower the rear ride height, then added a rear sway bar. 
I installed Bilstein shocks all around, then adapted a 65 Shelby quick-steering kit with roller bearings to the steering box and drag link. 

With the chassis work done and tires and wheels on the car, I custom made a set of fiberglass fender flares and grafted them
onto the front and rear fenders.  I had seen fender flares that I liked, and ones that I didn't like, and none of the store
bought flares would do.  As an amateur body man my fender flares weren't perfect, but in the end I got them looking pretty
good.  After doing most of the body work myself I hired a guy I knew to finish it up and paint the car in his shop.  I wanted
it candy apple red, and he got the color just right.  I finished it off with removing the front seats that were in the car and
replacing them with a set of Recaro seats from a 79 pace car Mustang, along with a full complement of Stewart Warner gauges.  I
built my own console (the original console was gone before I bought the car), filled it with switches to control various
functions, and added a 3 quart Accusump hidden in it to provide additional oil in case the oil ran away from the pickup in the
corners. 

If memory serves it was late summer 1984 when I finally got the car back on the road.  Looking back, I really regret not taking
photos of the car when I first got it, or anywhere along the way.  In fact I have no photos of the car that I took.  However,
after I got it done in 1984 I brought it over to my Dad's place and he snapped a couple of pictures.  He then had them blown
up into posters for me as a present.  The pictures are below; these are 2 of the only 3 pictures that I have of the car from
back then:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby84.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby84a.jpg)


I do have one other picture from back in the day, and I believe this was taken at the Car Craft Street Machine Nationals
in St. Louis in 1985.  Again, there is a story behind this one, which was taken by a friend of mine.  I was down there with
some friends at the show, just hanging around by the car, when this very attractive young lady came up to me and started asking
questions about the car.  She was very friendly and had a delightful southern accent; I thought, "Hey, I'm going to get lucky
at the car show!"  On the way to the show that morning we had stopped at the liquor store and they had a beer we had not seen
before, called King Cobra beer.  Of course we had to buy some.  We talked this gal into sitting up on the roll bar in my
Shelby, holding a can of King Cobra beer, so my friend could get this picture:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelbybabe.jpg)


Well, all was happiness and light for the next five minutes or so, and then her boyfriend showed up.  Apparently he had been about
four cars down, talking to some guy with a Chevelle, and she had decided to wander off.  Probably just wanted to make him jealous. 
She smiled and said goodbye.  We were all crushed LOL!

Back to the car modifications, it was stiff and rode very harshly with the chassis modifications, but boy could it go around
corners.  I could take freeway cloverleafs at ridiculously high speeds.  All the BS about big block cars couldn't be made to
handle went right out the window as far as I was concerned.  In the spring of 1985 I started to get serious about a high speed
run.  I had invested in a Doug Nash 5 speed transmission, with a pretty deep first gear, and swapped to a 2.75:1 rear gear
in the 9".  I also found a spot on a closed roadway where I could make some high speed runs without endangering anyone else.
In early summer I began to test.  My speedometer only went to 160 MPH, and I didn't trust its accuracy up there anyway, so I
calculated that the engine had to be turning 5900 RPM on the tach, in fifth gear, for me to hit 165.

My first test came with an unexpected surprise.  Passing through 130 MPH in fifth gear, the inside of the car suddenly became
a sandstorm.  All the dirt that had been in the carpet floated up out of the carpet at speed with the top down, and
began swirling around the interior.  It stung my face and my eyes; I had to let off for fear I wouldn't be able to see. 
Note to self:  vacuum the interior before the next test.

In subsequent testing I was able to reach about 147 MPH, but the car simply wouldn't go any faster than that.  It was clear
that I needed more power if I was going to reach my objective.

This was back in the early days of nitrous, and I was very interested in trying out a hidden system.  So, I pulled the 3X2
intake that I'd been running off the car, and sent it to an outfit called Marvin Miller Enterprises to get a direct port
nitrous system that was hidden under the intake manifold.  When the manifold was returned I wasn't overly impressed; a couple
of the nitrous or fuel lines plumbed into the bottom of the intake were in line with the pushrod holes, so that the pushrods
couldn't be installed in those locations.  I had to rebend some of the lines myself to make them clear.  The system was
advertised at 275 HP, but with the small solenoids that came with it, I doubt it was more than 100 HP.  But it was completely
hidden under the intake, with only the nitrous line, fuel line, and a couple wires feeding out through the road draft tube
opening, so it satisfied my desire for a stealthy system.

Next time out at the "test track", the nitrous had the desired effect.  The tachometer crept just past 6000 RPM before I let off.
 It would have kept going, but I figured that was fast enough.  Shortly after that the construction work finished on my test
track and it opened up for regular traffic; I never got a chance to go that fast in the car again.

In the spring of 1986 I was driving the car around town again.  The April issue of Hot Rod magazine appeared in the mailbox, and
I was horrified by what I saw.  On the cover:  "Omni GLHS Whips GT-350!"  There was a picture of Carroll Shelby leaning against
one of those butt-ugly Dodge Omnis, with a 65 GT-350 in the foreground.  Up until then, Shelby had been my hero.  Now, I saw him
for the money-grubbing publicity hound that he was.  Within a few days of that magazine appearing, I was at a local gas station
when some guy with an Omni GLH (not a GLHS) pulled up.  He whipped out a copy of the magazine and proclaimed that his little
box of crap was faster than my car!  What a jackass.  I said, "The freeway's right there; let's go!"  Needless to say I had four
car lengths on him before I hit second.  What a joke.

Then, it happened again!  This time I was parked at a restaurant with my girlfriend of the time, and an Omni GLH pulled in next
to me.  This guy wasn't as obnoxious as the first guy, but he seemed to think his car was pretty fast.  I offered to race him
for $50 and he agreed.  My girlfriend held the money, and once again it wasn't even a race.

When I got home that night I decided I should write a letter to Hot Rod.  I took a few liberties with the truth to make my
point, but after their BS article I felt no need to be perfectly accurate.  My letter said something like this:


Dear Hot Rod,

I wanted to write and thank you for your cover story
"Omni GLHS Whips GT-350".  Ever since it hit the
newsstands I have been mobbed by excited Omni GLH
owners claiming that their cars are faster than my
68 Shelby.  I managed to talk four of them into
trying to prove it, and in addition to beating them
all by what could best be described as several
buslengths, I managed to pocket $200 for my
efforts.  I can't wait for the GLHS to come out,
they ought to be worth even more money.

By the way, I have a friend with a 69 Dodge who's
a little short on cash.  Could you please run a
cover story entitled, "LeBaron Stings Super Bee"?

Jay Brown
St. Louis Park, MN


Surprisingly, Hot Rod published my letter in the August '86 issue, under the byline "Sting Operation".  As a result I became
an instant celebrity with the Ford guys in my area.  The editor responded to my letter in the magazine with some snarky
comment that I should leave on the first yellow when I raced a GLHS.  My friend JC said that was the only way I could lose,
by redlighting LOL!

Back in the early 80s I'd found out about SAAC, the national Shelby club, and joined.  In 1987 SAAC published their World
Registry, listing all known owners of Shelbys, along with partial serial numbers for all the cars.  I bought a copy and
anxiously looked up my serial number; sure enough it was listed as a GT-500 convertible.  This was something of a relief,
given my doubts about the origin of the car.  However, my name was not listed as the owner, so I dashed off a letter to
SAAC with all the information on the car, plus some questions about it.  I never did get a response from them.

1988 was the last summer that I drove the car a lot.  I had dropped out of college in 1981 after five years of part time
studies and not really knowing what degree I wanted.  By 1988, after experience with the Shelby, I was sure I wanted to
go into engineering, so I enrolled at a local state college.  The car was stored until I graduated in 1991.  Shortly after
that I met my wife, and for some reason the car didn't get much attention for the next few years.  Imagine that!  Then came
the kids, and even less time for the car, you know the drill.

In 1997 SAAC came out with another World Registry.  I bought a copy and was anxious to see my name as the owner of the car. 
Sure enough, it was there, but to my huge surprise and relief, there was a half page article in the registry explaining the
presence of Dual Serial Number cars!  Finally, the two serial numbers on my Shelby data plate were explained!  As written
in the 1997 World Registry:

"During the beginning of 1968 Shelby production, in
November and December of 1967, the cars were given a
unique 14-digit Shelby Vehicle Identification Number
(similar to the 1967 VINs), along with the standard 11-
character Ford Mustang VIN.  Both numbers were
stamped on the aluminum Shelby identification tag
riveted to the driver's side front fender inner panel.
Because the cars were not built in strict numerical
order, these "dual-serial number cars" are dispersed
among the first 500 or so 1968 Shelbys."

"The dual serial number system was most likely discontinued
due to its redundancy with the Ford VIN.  The
two numbers were combined.  The last five digits of the
unique Shelby number, connoting the car's place in  the
sequence of production, were merely added to the end of
the standard Ford Mustang VIN.  The 1968 Shelbys
which received dual serial numbers were titled and registered
by the standard 1968 Shelby VIN (the 11-character
Ford VIN + the 5-digit Shelby production Number)."

I had already determined that my car was a very early car in production, so this explanation made perfect sense.  This entry
in the registry answered a question that had been nagging at me for nearly 20 years.  Any doubts I had that my car was an
original Shelby vanished with this article.  Since that time I've heard stories that the dual serial number system came
about because of the switch in production from Shelby to Ford for the 1968 cars; there may have been some confusion about
whether to title the cars as Shelbys or as Fords, and with no decision made, both serial numbers were put on the data
plate.  Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me, but I don't know if its really true or not.

Fast forward to 2003, and my kids were old enough to be left alone in the house.  The car was waiting patiently for me in the
garage, and I decided now was the time to get to work on it.  It still had rust holes in the floorpan, the inner rocker
panels were rusted out, and the bodywork around the fender flares was starting to show its age.  I was done with the Cafe
Racer mentality, but still being a hot rodder at heart, I wasn't going to return the car back to stock.  However, my new
concept for the car was to return it to a stock appearance, maybe a little lower in stance, but upgrade the engine for
more power.  I was also tired of jumping over the side bars across the doors that had been added 20 years before to keep
the car straight.  So, it was clear a ground-up revamp of the car was necessary.  Fortunately all the sheet metal parts
needed to repair the rust damage on the car were now available, so I figured with the necessary floorpan, inner rocker
panel, and torque box replacements I could cut those side bars out and get in the car like a normal human being again.

In the fall of 2003 I put the car up on jackstands and tore it down.  The engine, which had been running fine, came out
and was put on a stand.  The interior was removed and I started drilling out spot welds and removing rusted out panels. 
But the work was slow going, and I absolutely, positive, HATE sheet metal work, so I did a little at time through the
fall of 2003 and winter of 2004.  I got the passenger side finished up, with a new front torque box, new rear torque box,
new inner rocker panel, and new floor pan.  I also got started on the engine project, which included a Shelby block, Blue
Thunder heads, and a Vortech V7 centrifugal supercharger.  In the spring of 2004 I went to the dyno with that engine and
made 850 HP.

Then, in the summer of 2004, a freshly painted 1969 R-code Mach 1 showed up on ebay.  It was complete - except for the
engine.  Of course, sitting on the stand next to my Shelby was a complete, running 428CJ.  Hmmmm, I always wanted a 69
Mach 1...

The Shelby was suddenly forgotten.  I bought the Mach 1, slammed in the 428CJ, and drove it all summer.  The next year I
put in a bigger engine and went to the first Drag Week.  In 2007 I put the supercharged engine originally meant for the
Shelby in the Mach 1 and ran a different class at Drag Week.  Somewhere in there the cammer bug bit me, and before I knew
it 14 years had gone by.  The Shelby was still sitting up on jackstands in the first bay of my shop, with half the floor
replaced, waiting to be finished.

At the beginning of September we got my son sent off to college, so the time window has opened up for me a little bit.  My
wife has been bugging me for the last couple years to get my Shelby put back together; she isn't into the car thing much,
but when we were first dating she did enjoy driving around in that car.  So, now is the time.  Here's a picture of the car,
warts and all, as it sits in my shop today:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelbybare.jpg)

I've been working on it for the last week and a half, and now the driver's side floorpan, inner rocker panel, and rear
torque box are welded in.  I'm currently welding up all the holes in the engine compartment that I put in there over the
years.  When that is finished I have a partial frame replacement to do on the driver's side, back by the rear leaf spring
mount, and then I will cut off the quarter panels and fix the outer wheelhouses and trunk drop downs (they are completely
rusted out).  In about another two weeks I have a guy coming here to do a complete dustless blasting job on the car.  Then
I will epoxy prime the whole car, replace the quarter panels, and finally be done with the sheet metal work!  Meanwhile,
all the fiberglass parts are out getting plastic media blasted.  When they are back I can finally start the bodywork.  I'm
hoping I will be able to get the car painted in the spring.

The supercharged engine I had originally planned for this car is sitting on an engine stand, removed for the high riser
that is now in my Mach 1.  I plan to use it in this car, but I'm trying to make a Whipple work rather than the centrifugal
supercharger; we'll see if that turns out to be possible.  Also I'm pretty sold on those Tremec T-56 Magnum  six speed
transmissions, so I think I'll get one of those for this car too.  I have a complete Global West suspension that I will
install, along with subframe connectors to try to keep the car as stiff as possible.  I'm also planning to use 16X8
Vintage Wheel Works wheels in the original Shelby Mustang style.  They will allow the use of some pretty good tires but
not be so big that they look stupid like some of those 19 or 20 inch wheels.

I will try to post periodic updates on this project as I go along.  Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome, and
thanks for indulging my trip through the past with this car - Jay
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: machoneman on September 30, 2017, 04:15:27 PM
A good read Jay. And yes, from the pics, your car was/is a chick magnet for sure!

The best part I took away wasn't the car however.

It's the fact that your love of cars got you into engineering and hence what appears to be a very successful business career. I finding that interesting we car guys have and often can apply a lot of what we learned, sometimes the hard way (!) to higher learning, new perspectives and often success in life. Funny how that works.

Kudos for a great review on your (car) life story! Keep them Cammers coming!

   
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Heo on September 30, 2017, 04:24:33 PM

Thanks for the story Jay. It gave me a few good laughs
and a few Flashbacks, wrestling and bench pressing toploaders
shirts on Girls blowing......
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: The Magic Ratchet on September 30, 2017, 05:13:21 PM
I always enjoy the history behind these cars. Thanks for taking the time to recite it for us. Keep us posted on the restoration.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: turbohunter on September 30, 2017, 05:52:37 PM
Awesome
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Drew Pojedinec on September 30, 2017, 07:55:06 PM
The best part I took away wasn't the car however.
It's the fact that your love of cars got you into engineering and hence what appears to be a very successful business career. I finding that interesting we car guys have and often can apply a lot of what we learned, sometimes the hard way (!) to higher learning, new perspectives and often success in life. Funny how that works.   

Agreed^
Bob nailed it. 

Great story Jay.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: 427Fastback on September 30, 2017, 10:45:11 PM
Very good read...I myself bought my 68 Fastback just after I graduated high school in 77.I broke everything in it numerous times in the early years..It was a trip down memory lane when I stripped it and put it on the rotisserie.All those mystery holes....

I do have pics of when I bought it..Jacked up stupid high with shackles,helper springs,air shocks,mudflaps and Playboy Astro GT tires.....oh the 70's
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: mike7570 on October 01, 2017, 12:40:56 AM
Your post brings back a lot of memories for me. My first car was a 67 fastback 390 GT with deluxe interior. I started working on it right away in the fall of 74. I bought a set of hooker headers from a guy named Ron Miller out of his garage in Monrovia. My 3rd car I purchased in 1978 was a 67 GT500 Shelby that had the 428 replaced with a 427. I freshened it up a bit and it was the fastest street car I have had. At the time my brother had a 69 and one of my best friends had a 68 both GT500's.
The 68 was $1200, the 69 was $1,800 and my 67 was $3,200.
Ah the good old days.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Barry_R on October 01, 2017, 06:36:17 AM
Very cool read.  Kind of amazing how pivotal these hunks of iron become in our lives.  I missed out on a '69 GT350 in the late 1970's because I percieved no way to raise the $3500 asking price.

Makes me want to take the time to write a retrospective on my Torino, which while having less "real" value, has outstayed about sixty other cars and remains a big deal to me after being in my possession since 1981.  Lots of stories to tell about that one...
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: machoneman on October 01, 2017, 07:12:42 AM
If you do Barry, tell us also how you became an engine builder. 
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cwhitney on October 01, 2017, 08:27:18 AM
Great Read Jay, Good luck on the project

Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 01, 2017, 08:28:13 AM
Your post brings back a lot of memories for me. My first car was a 67 fastback 390 GT with deluxe interior. I started working on it right away in the fall of 74. I bought a set of hooker headers from a guy named Ron Miller out of his garage in Monrovia. My 3rd car I purchased in 1978 was a 67 GT500 Shelby that had the 428 replaced with a 427. I freshened it up a bit and it was the fastest street car I have had. At the time my brother had a 69 and one of my best friends had a 68 both GT500's.
The 68 was $1200, the 69 was $1,800 and my 67 was $3,200.
Ah the good old days.

My 67 fastback also had the deluxe interior.  I think that was the best interior Ford ever put in a Mustang.  When I got my 68 fastback, shortly afterwards I purchased a beat up 67 coupe with the deluxe interior and swapped most of the interior parts.  There were a few differences between fastback and coupe, the roof console comes to mind, but nothing I wasn't able to find.  I think that was about 2005. 

These days when I tell people I paid $2800 for my Shelby they tell me how I stole the car, but back then that was a lot of money; brand new that car went for $4844.48, according to the Marti report. 
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 01, 2017, 08:46:20 AM
Very cool read.  Kind of amazing how pivotal these hunks of iron become in our lives.  I missed out on a '69 GT350 in the late 1970's because I percieved no way to raise the $3500 asking price.

Makes me want to take the time to write a retrospective on my Torino, which while having less "real" value, has outstayed about sixty other cars and remains a big deal to me after being in my possession since 1981.  Lots of stories to tell about that one...

I have never been able to adequately explain to my wife, or any former girlfriend for that matter, how you can develop an emotional attachment to a mechanical contrivance like a car.  Not sure I understand it myself, except that it has something to do with one's personal history.

Barry, I want to hear the Torino stories.  I understand there may have been some street racing in the Detroit area...  ;D ;D
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjetmech on October 01, 2017, 08:54:12 AM
Wow great read. The thing that got me was the dust flying up in your face at 140mph. A similar thing happened to me. My first ever ride in a really fast car, a 70 440+6 Challenger. We made a pass at the local test strip and when my buddy let off, the air in the car just became filled with dust and whatever other crap was lying around. I was hooked on fast cars from that day forward tho. Cant wait to see the latest creation from Dr. Browns Laboratory. :)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on October 01, 2017, 12:22:43 PM
Loved the story. And you're darn right that was a lot of money back then, and for a 10 year old "gas guzzler" with rust to boot! I'm sure there were a couple people who thought you were crazy for spending that kind of money on it.

People think I stole my '69 R-code. I paid $250 for it in 1982. But they see the car as it is today. They didn't see it as I purchased it, stripped of everything except some of the interior, no engine or trans, rear end sagging, parts strewn all over the place with most of the fasteners missing or casually tossed in random boxes. Having no experience with Mustangs at the time, it took me 4 years just to get it back together and on the road, and that was with a 351 W and automatic. Couldn't afford an FE at that time.

When you've had a car so long, stories are inevitable. A quick one about mine...I went to a Joint Vocational School my last 2 years of highschool and took Automotive Mechanics. As my senior project, I took my Mustang in to FINALLY get an engine and transmission put in it. It came down to the very last day, and I had JUST gotten everything hooked up by the end of the day. I went to start it and the solenoid stuck. A quick panic to unhook the battery before it destroyed the starter, then swapped out the solenoid and I was ready!
WRONG!
I took the car off the hoist, started it again, hit the brakes to back it out of the shop and POW, there went a brake line! This was at 3:20, and school let out at 3:30, and it was my last day as a Senior, so there was NO coming back to finish it, AND there was no emergency brake hooked up. The school was about 22 miles from my house. I drove the car home, downshifting to get it slowed at stop signs and lights. I'd get it as slow as I could at intersections, hope there was nobody coming, then take off if the coast was clear. I had no other option but to jam it into park if I had to make a complete stop. That was interesting....RRRRRRRRRclickityclickityclickityCLICK..SCREEEECH!
Twice I had to make a beeline for the ditch or roadside before I got out of the populated area of the school and into the country, but I made it home without hitting anyone or anything!

This is my graduation day, 1986. I had fixed the brake line so I could drive it that day. Still missing a few front end parts, no front bumper and VERY questionable tires....BUT I WAS DRIVING IT!!! 8)

(https://s19.postimg.org/62pire3rn/Mustang1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: My427stang on October 01, 2017, 01:29:17 PM
Good stuff! 

Jay, are you keeping the fenders flared?
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 01, 2017, 03:37:28 PM
Nope, I'm done with that.  I want it to look stock on the outside with the exception of the slightly larger than stock 16X8 Shelby-style wheels, and a slightly lower than stock stance.  The interior will be mostly stock, but use all aftermarket gauges.  All the really fun stuff will be in the driveline...
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: sixty9cobra on October 01, 2017, 04:32:19 PM
Like the rest of you I purchased my mustang when I was 15 1974 for $400 dollars. I had a dead 390 bad clutch crunched rear quarter panel, manual drum brakes, and manual steering. It had hooker headers that were rusted thru.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Bolted to Floor on October 01, 2017, 07:46:06 PM
Cool story Jay. Thanks for sharing.

Yes they are cars, but with the number of years I've owed my 67 and the hours I have worked on it, it's part of the family. Like the kids, dogs, and cats.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: My427stang on October 01, 2017, 08:05:03 PM
Nope, I'm done with that.  I want it to look stock on the outside with the exception of the slightly larger than stock 16X8 Shelby-style wheels, and a slightly lower than stock stance.  The interior will be mostly stock, but use all aftermarket gauges.  All the really fun stuff will be in the driveline...

Good :) I was being diplomatic in case you dug them, I love the improved stock look and carry a big stick
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: WConley on October 01, 2017, 11:25:04 PM
Cool story Jay!  I do remember gazing upon that car with the one repaired floorpan, and hearing your plans for it  :D

FYI, my '68 GT-350 fastback had much better aerodynamics.  Using the same method to calculate top speed, I attained 152 mph with a decently-built roller cam 5.0 smallblock.  This was in a foreign country where they say "eh" a lot, and have big long empty stretches of highway with numbers like "401"  ;)

Unlike you, I was foolish and let that car go.  Thanks for the good read!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: machoneman on October 02, 2017, 07:48:53 AM
Cool story Jay!  I do remember gazing upon that car with the one repaired floorpan, and hearing your plans for it  :D

FYI, my '68 GT-350 fastback had much better aerodynamics.  Using the same method to calculate top speed, I attained 152 mph with a decently-built roller cam 5.0 smallblock.  This was in a foreign country where they say "eh" a lot, and have big long empty stretches of highway with numbers like "401"  ;)

Unlike you, I was foolish and let that car go.  Thanks for the good read!

Say Bill, at your top speed, do you remember if the steering got light..like scary light due to front end lift?

I ask since my '70 Mach 1 fastback did get scary light at speed. I have the OEM black plastic spoiler but when Ford backed the '69-'70's in the old Trans-Am series, all of the racers had a huge, well-braced, aluminum front spoiler that literally touched the track at speed. Think I know why now!

Not practical, darn it, for a streeter though. 
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Heo on October 02, 2017, 09:09:06 AM
Bob don't want to highjack Jays thread but as it sits in
profile pick you need to get the front end lower so the
air go over the car not under  A set of  shorter 620lbs
coils makes a tremendous difference
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: KMcCullah on October 02, 2017, 09:39:12 AM
Great story, Jay. Looking forward to following this thread.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 02, 2017, 09:44:56 AM
+1 on what Heo said Bob, I remember before I made the chassis mods and lowered the car, the front end would start floating around at about 125 MPH.  After the car was lowered I never had that issue.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: mbrunson427 on October 02, 2017, 10:18:13 AM
Great read! The only tires you'll be able to find for those wheels are BFGoodrich "G-Force Sport Comp 2's". Write that down for when you go into the tire shop haha. I found out the hard way when I went to get tires about a month ago. That's what is on the 68 Cougar, 16x8 Vintage 45's. Big enough to be cool, but not so big that they look out of place. Actually....thinking about it.....the Cougar also has Global West suspension parts, subframe brace and all that stuff. I can send you over pictures of it if you're interested.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Heo on October 02, 2017, 11:06:38 AM
+1 on what Heo said Bob, I remember before I made the chassis mods and lowered the car, the front end would start floating around at about 125 MPH.  After the car was lowered I never had that issue.
I remember my first Mustang a 65 coupe with  just a 2V 289 started to float at 60-70 mph.
You got the feeling that steering shaft broke in half . So i saw a ad in Hotrod i think from TCM
about "Shelby" 620 lbs Frontsprings with promisses about stop floating, better cornering, higher
topspeed, Yeaaaa right so i ordered a set.  At that time early 80s ordering from USA was a 3 months
procedure to get the parts but the springs keept the promisses down to higher topspeed 5km/h.
After that i did the shelby relocation of the a arm koni shocks 1 inch swaybar Pirelli P6 tires 3-4
degrees camber. That car cornered so you was not able to stay in the nice shiny vinyl  seat ;D
Did that mod to quite a few other mustang owners after that
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: 57 lima bean on October 02, 2017, 11:27:15 AM
"I will try to post periodic updates on this project as I go along.  Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome, and
thanks for indulging my trip through the past with this car - Jay"....Where are you going to keep your paper work?
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: thatdarncat on October 02, 2017, 11:58:06 AM
"I will try to post periodic updates on this project as I go along.  Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome, and
thanks for indulging my trip through the past with this car - Jay"....Where are you going to keep your paper work?

The Shelby magazine rack has been repurposed lol.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: machoneman on October 02, 2017, 12:19:18 PM
+1 on what Heo said Bob, I remember before I made the chassis mods and lowered the car, the front end would start floating around at about 125 MPH.  After the car was lowered I never had that issue.

Thanks guys. The pic of my Mach is a fooler as it sits on my angled drive. The car actually sits dead level (spirit bubble) at the door's top edge.

I do have all the trick "Boss 302 Chassis Manual" parts (1" drop, weld-in spring perch area sheet metal supports, 600 lb contour springs for less stiffness on bumps and much more) but, the points are well taken.

I did get slightly narrower front tires last year so I can drop the front a tad more, say 1/2"-3/4", with some spring cutting or straight coil, not contour, springs and not hit the OEM outer fender flare. I can also raise the back a tad, say 1" with some spring eye work or new leafs. Ugh though, then I need to re-set the camber/toe....but it may be worth it.

FWIW, I do like the look of a bigger (taller) aluminum front spoiler to control under-the-car airflow which is the big deal on our what I call shark-nosed '69-'70 Stangs which also btw makes it look great...except for airflow! Yet as I noted before, way over $1K for race shop fabication, supports etc. Worse, the poor streets/highways here in Illinois, land-of-the-damaged cars, would rip same off in a heartbeat!   

p.s new avatar car pic soon.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 02, 2017, 12:49:36 PM
Great read! The only tires you'll be able to find for those wheels are BFGoodrich "G-Force Sport Comp 2's". Write that down for when you go into the tire shop haha. I found out the hard way when I went to get tires about a month ago. That's what is on the 68 Cougar, 16x8 Vintage 45's. Big enough to be cool, but not so big that they look out of place. Actually....thinking about it.....the Cougar also has Global West suspension parts, subframe brace and all that stuff. I can send you over pictures of it if you're interested.

Those Sport Comp 2s are exactly what I was going to run, 225/50ZR-16 in the front and 255/50ZR-16 in the rear.  I'm a little concerned about front tire clearance to the fenders, using a 16X8 wheel with a 4-1/2" back space.  Looks like your wheels are the same; what tire size are you running and how do they fit the car?
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 02, 2017, 12:52:08 PM
"I will try to post periodic updates on this project as I go along.  Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome, and
thanks for indulging my trip through the past with this car - Jay"....Where are you going to keep your paper work?

After I get it blasted I'm moving the car, Steve.  The 68 Mustang will go into the paint booth for the winter, the race car will go up on the lift, the GT will go underneath, and the 68 Shelby will go where the race car is now, so that I can get the work done on it over the winter.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: mbrunson427 on October 02, 2017, 04:47:12 PM
Those Sport Comp 2s are exactly what I was going to run, 225/50ZR-16 in the front and 255/50ZR-16 in the rear.  I'm a little concerned about front tire clearance to the fenders, using a 16X8 wheel with a 4-1/2" back space.  Looks like your wheels are the same; what tire size are you running and how do they fit the car?

Those are the same exact sizes. That's the biggest size you can get out back. With that wheel, I think the fronts actually have a better fitment than the rear. Rears are tucked inboard just a tad, fronts are out there pretty perfectly. I don't have a picture of the car after the new set of tires.... in this picture the rears are one size smaller than they are now (255/50/16). Only issue I have with those wheels......I hate the center caps that they have available.......but I think you have the equipment to make that issue go away. When I was in college I drew up a set of center caps in solidworks and sent them off to a few machinists. Everyone I sent them to kept giving me this "run around" about how they couldn't do anything with the file i was sending them. I now realize that I was working on the universities computers, their solidworks licenses were for education only and the files were encrypted. Those machinists weren't giving me the run around after all.....

(https://s1.postimg.org/63oz1qjya7/IMG_3270.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 02, 2017, 06:31:37 PM
Mike, your picture isn't showing up for me...

Edit:  Now it is, looks good!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: mbrunson427 on October 02, 2017, 08:37:26 PM
Try that. I've been using google photos for forum posting and obviously I'm not a champ yet.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: WConley on October 02, 2017, 10:50:39 PM
Cool story Jay!  I do remember gazing upon that car with the one repaired floorpan, and hearing your plans for it  :D

FYI, my '68 GT-350 fastback had much better aerodynamics.  Using the same method to calculate top speed, I attained 152 mph with a decently-built roller cam 5.0 smallblock.  This was in a foreign country where they say "eh" a lot, and have big long empty stretches of highway with numbers like "401"  ;)

Unlike you, I was foolish and let that car go.  Thanks for the good read!

Say Bill, at your top speed, do you remember if the steering got light..like scary light due to front end lift?

I ask since my '70 Mach 1 fastback did get scary light at speed. I have the OEM black plastic spoiler but when Ford backed the '69-'70's in the old Trans-Am series, all of the racers had a huge, well-braced, aluminum front spoiler that literally touched the track at speed. Think I know why now!

Not practical, darn it, for a streeter though.

Bob - Interestingly enough, the car did feel pretty good going up to that speed.  The front suspension was a bit lower than stock, but nothing radical.  The Shelby louvers on the hood may have helped get some of that air out from underneath (plenty of room around that small-block), combined with the stabilizing effect of the rear spoiler.  That's my best guess, plus being young-and-dumb with a clenched sphincter kept the steering inputs to a minimum.

Oh I've experienced total loss of steering at speed - in a '66 Corvette roadster.  At 120 you were just a passenger!  Again, young-and-dumb.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: machoneman on October 03, 2017, 07:36:16 AM
Thanks Bill and interesting on the Vette. Cousin Rich has a gennie 427 '67 convert. and yes, I also felt loss of steering in it long ago at speed...although I don't remember just how fast it was going.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: mbrunson427 on October 03, 2017, 08:11:13 AM
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Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: gdaddy01 on October 03, 2017, 08:11:26 PM
much better reading your post , Jay , and real history , than looking  at b.j. etc. auctions and seeing how much money crazy people have .
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 12, 2017, 01:48:18 PM
Over the last few days I've made a big step in the right direction with this project.  The car has been blasted, epoxy primed, and the underbody painted.  I thought I would relate my experiences with this process since I haven't ever had this done with a car before.

Let me start by saying that although I didn't set the car up on a rotisserie for this, it would have been a much easier process all the way around if I had.  The rotisserie has some advantages that I had not previously considered.  I didn't want to go that route because I was worried about bending the car; with the inner rocker panels complete shot, I felt that the only thing keeping it straight was the side bars that had been welded onto the factory roll bar.  With no hardtop to add additional support, I was worried that putting the car on a rotisserie would have led to it bending or warping out of shape.  So, despite the fact that one of my friends had one he could lend me, I didn't use a rotisserie.  Hindsight being 20/20, I should have put the car on a rotisserie as soon as I had the new inner rocker panels welded in solidly.  Between the inner rockers and the side bars, I think the car would have stayed straight.

On Monday this week I contracted with a local guy to do dustless blasting on the shell of the car, plus the doors and some other parts.  Dustless blasting is where they use ground up glass, finer than sand, which is sprayed along with water to take off the paint and rust.  According to the guy who did the blasting, they put some kind of rust inhibitor in the water they use, to keep the freshly blasted car from rusting for the next 24-72 hours.  Sunday, in preparation for the blasting job, I rolled the car on jacks out into the driveway, and put it up as high as I could on jackstands.  I also put some plastic down under the car to catch as much of the sand as possible.  Here's a picture of the car out in the driveway:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/68Shelpreblast.jpg)


On Monday when the guy showed up I found out one reason why the rotisserie would have been a better option.  The nozzle on his dustless blasting setup was at least a foot and a half long, and was rigid, with a 1-1/2" diameter hose attached.  No way he was going to be able to get under the car, point it straight up in the air, and get to all the nooks and crannies on the underbody of the car.  There was a lot of "I'll do the best I can underneath" from the guy, which didn't make me happy, but it had taken me a month to schedule the appointment with him and I didn't have time to re-schedule it, so we went ahead anyway.  Later, I ended up hand sanding and wire wheeling the areas under the car that he couldn't get to.  Of course with the rotisserie we could have flipped the car over and gotten the whole underside with no problem.

To do the shell and the other parts it was about a five hour process.  After blasting everything, checking for spots that were missed, and blasting again, he rinsed the whole car using my garden hose, and mixing in some of that anti-rust stuff with one of those bottles that screws onto the end of the hose, kind of like what you'd use for fertilizer on your lawn.  The sand, of course, gets everywhere, and it took over an hour to rinse the sand off the car.  And of course, we couldn't get it all.  I worked with the rinsing hose for a while, and you just couldn't chase it all down.  Finally we called it quits on the rinsing and blew off as much of the water as we could with an air hose.  Here's a picture of the car when this process was mostly complete:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/68Shelblasted.jpg)


We also tried the dustless blasting process out on a couple of the fiberglass pieces on the car, but that didn't work so well.  It looked like the gelcoat on the fiberglass parts was being eaten away by the abrasive, even if he kept the nozzle pretty far away from the part.  The guy said he had done dozens of Corvettes with no issues, but the Shelby parts must have a thinner or different gelcoat than a Corvette, because I just didn't like the looks of the areas where he had blasted.  He thought the same thing, so we stopped after a couple spots on the trunk and one of the front fascia pieces.

After we got all done he was nice enough to help me push the car back into the garage, where I spent more time blowing off the water and more sand.  I had erected a sheet of plastic around the car to keep the sand out of the rest of the shop, as well as the paint; I was planning to epoxy prime the whole car on Tuesday, and paint the underbody on Wednesday.

Later on Monday night I was out cleaning up the car some more, and around the spots where I had welded, I saw some faint traces of rust forming.  So much for no rust for the first 24-72 hours...

Tuesday morning I took all the separate pieces and the doors, cleaned all the sand off them with compressed air and a vacuum, and put them in my paint booth.  It took me about an hour for each door to get them completely free of sand, turning them over and over, continually blowing them out and vacuuming any sand that I found.  There didn't appear to be any rust forming on the doors or the other parts so I shot them all with two coats of epoxy primer by noon.  For years I have used a PPG product called DP40 as the epoxy primer, but I found out recently that it has been discontinued thanks to new EPA regulations  >:(  Reading online about the PPG replacement, I did not see a lot of good things.  I ended up going with an epoxy primer sold by Eastwood, which a friend of mine had used recently with success.  I also sprayed it with a new paint gun from Devillbiss, using something called their Dekups system.  This is basically a collapsible, gravity feed cup for the spray gun, and has the big advantage of allowing you to spray with the gun at any angle.  No vents to leak, and the cup kind of collapses around the paint as the paint is used up, making for a supply of paint to the gun no matter what angle you spray at.  Later on Tuesday when I sprayed the car, this system was invaluable; I really, really like it.  The Eastwood epoxy primer, on the other hand, gets medium marks from me.  It did not result in a particularly smooth finish on the parts in the booth, although it did spray on OK.  Now that its been a couple days I've been able to check the adhesion, and it seems to be good, although the blasted surface is an excellent surface for a primer and I would think nearly any paint would stick well on it.

Tuesday afternoon I started on the body.  I spent 7 hours in total cleaning and prepping the body of the car.  I must have vacuumed sand out of the interior a half dozen times.  There were places that I could not get the sand all the way out of, for example the cowl area under the vents.  I'd blow compressed air in from the top and the sides, in both directions, and no matter how many times I did it, when I blew the air in, more sand would come out.  I finally got it to a minimum after working that area for about 45 minutes, but it was clear that I'd never get it all out of there.  Under the car some of the sand was sticking to the sheet metal, so I scrubbed the whole underside with a Scotchbrite pad.  Up in the middle of the transmission tunnel, and between the frame rails and trunk drop downs in the rear, the blasting didn't reach, so I went in there with a wire brush and tried to clean those areas up as best as I could.  Obviously  they didn't look as good as the blasted areas but I figured at least the epoxy primer would stick.  Finally at about 7:00 PM I took some Metal-Prep, which I believe is phosphoric acid, and hit all the weld spots that looked like they were starting to rust.  There were a few more of them by this time, but it wasn't too bad.  I rinsed and dried after the Metal-Prep (actually I used PPG DX-579), and was ready to epoxy prime the shell.   

I had purchased one gallon each of the epoxy primer and activator, and it is mixed 1:1 so I had two gallons of sprayable material.  I had used about 25% of that on the parts in the booth, and I figured I had enough for the shell left over.  Wrong, I got one complete coat on the car, then about half the car with the second coat before I ran out.  All those nooks and crannies in the vehicle took a lot of paint.  And, of course, when I was painting around the cowl vents a little sand blew up and landed on the cowl  >:(  I will have to sand that area off and try to reprime it, then have another go at getting more sand out of there.  The painting took a long time; I was painting until 11:00 PM on Tuesday.  Again, that gun with the Dekups system was invaluable under the car, under the lips of the trunk, up under the dash, etc.  I don't know how I would have covered all those areas without it.  Of course, if the car had been on a rotisserie, it would have been no problem with a regular gun.

The epoxy primer can be recoated up to 4-5 days without scuffing, so on Wednesday I painted the underbody of the car.  I used Eastwood's Chassis Black, which I have used before with success out of a spray can.  This time I had purchased it in quarts for use in the gun.  You mix the paint 4:1 with the activator.  I found I needed to thin it with their recommend urethane reducer by 10%-15% to get it to spray out of the gun reasonably well; as mixed it is pretty thick.  I got two coats on the complete underside of the car and the outside of the inner fenders, using about 3/4 gallon of mixed sprayable material.  The paint went on very nicely and it looks good.  Here's a couple pictures of the car with the epoxy primer and paint on it:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/68Shelpainted1.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/68Shelpainted2.jpg)


So, now I'm back to more sheet metal work.  I have to weld in the seat support in the interior, then the pans that go underneath the seat support on convertibles, and then start on the quarter panels.  The blasting also blew a few holes open in the sheet metal that I didn't know about before, so I will have to patch those.  Also, there is some rust repair to do on the doors.  I'm sure all this will take me a few months before I can start the actual body work, but when this is all finished, for the first time since I've owned it the car will be completely solid.  I'm sure looking forward to that!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Heo on October 12, 2017, 02:50:07 PM
Jay I would borrow the rotisseries and rotate the body to get more
sand out. How much you vaccum and blow there is still some sand
that will blow out when you start painting it....Ask me how i know ::)
The DP40 was gone here for a while banned for car painting. Me and the
paint shop found a loophole, I'm going to paint a boat,tractor,trailer whatever
then its not banned so i got some DP40 as late as June ,July ..
A blasted surface have around 40%more surface area so that's why you used
so much more paint than your calculation



Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: turbohunter on October 12, 2017, 03:48:54 PM
All I could think about was "man he puts in a lot of hours in a day".
Much respect dude.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on October 12, 2017, 08:51:09 PM
Yes, DP 40 was the BEST stuff ever! Unfortunately, it would also kill you if you didn't wear a proper respirator! That's what I used on my Mach 15+ years ago, and my friend that owns a body shop bought quite a few gallons of the stuff before they took it off the market.

You should have asked here before doing the water blasting. Water and any type of sand just don't get it for blasting cars. The water will coagulate with the sand and make it darn near impossible to get completely out in the difficult areas where you can't reach. It also holds the moisture in, so it can be a double negative as that goes. Dry sand will remain loose and can be blown out much easier (it still takes LOTS of time, and air). Water blasting is meant for brick and building exteriors.

Also, there are still some very good modern epoxy primers, but you have to speak with guys that do this stuff on a daily basis, because many of the new products are hit and miss. Just going by recollection, my friends use DP 70 or something like that. I'd have to ask them to be sure though. And I think most are water based solvents now, although there are some good products using both types.

Also, concerning the remaining sand and seams, I'd highly suggest not stopping until you stop getting any sand out. Then I'd recommend using something like Eastwoods Corroless and going over EVERY seam on the car. It will seal the seams and stabalize any rust (including any sand/moisture) that's trapped between the seams. If you do that, I'd practically guarantee you that you will never have rust creep out of the seams, which is where it always starts. This is experience talking after helping my friends do MANY restorations, including doing my own car.

The trunk floors, drop offs, taillight panel and floor pans look remarkably solid! Are you going to cut the 1/4 panels completely off and replace them, or try to weld over what's remaining?
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: TimeWarpF100 on October 12, 2017, 09:32:58 PM
Like always a very good read!
Back in 1975 I bought a 1970 428scj Mach 1
For 500.00. 36k mi on it. It was in a guys driveway
And one night he saw someone trying to steal
The shaker hood. He brought shaker in house and forgot
About it. Of course many days of rain and engine filled
With water. Finally put car in garage but left water in engine.
Made for good deal for me. Had the car 15 yrs thought
I would never sell. I moved to az then year
Later lost storage. Let the car go.

My '66 F100 (482 ) I traded for a '71 f100 and 2800 cash.
I paid 2700 for the '71. In '66 for 100 to the good.
Still have it nearly 18 yrs later.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 12, 2017, 11:44:06 PM
You should have asked here before doing the water blasting. Water and any type of sand just don't get it for blasting cars. The water will coagulate with the sand and make it darn near impossible to get completely out in the difficult areas where you can't reach. It also holds the moisture in, so it can be a double negative as that goes. Dry sand will remain loose and can be blown out much easier (it still takes LOTS of time, and air). Water blasting is meant for brick and building exteriors.

Also, there are still some very good modern epoxy primers, but you have to speak with guys that do this stuff on a daily basis, because many of the new products are hit and miss. Just going by recollection, my friends use DP 70 or something like that. I'd have to ask them to be sure though. And I think most are water based solvents now, although there are some good products using both types.

Also, concerning the remaining sand and seams, I'd highly suggest not stopping until you stop getting any sand out. Then I'd recommend using something like Eastwoods Corroless and going over EVERY seam on the car. It will seal the seams and stabalize any rust (including any sand/moisture) that's trapped between the seams. If you do that, I'd practically guarantee you that you will never have rust creep out of the seams, which is where it always starts. This is experience talking after helping my friends do MANY restorations, including doing my own car.

The trunk floors, drop offs, taillight panel and floor pans look remarkably solid! Are you going to cut the 1/4 panels completely off and replace them, or try to weld over what's remaining?

Well Doug, the people I know in my area who have done these sorts of restorations warned me off of dry blasting with sand, due to the heat buildup and coarser sand used, which tends to warp panels.  The only real good alternative was blasting with plastic media, but that meant transporting the car to another location, which I didn't want to do.  The blasting I had done did not warp anything at all, so I'm happy with that part of the process.  Also, I'm not buying your claim that the sand holds moisture.  I've seen no evidence of that in my car, or any evidence of the sand building up or caking anywhere.  And I'm also not buying the idea that a dry blasting of the car would let me get sand out any easier.  That enclosed area under the cowl vents is going to hold some sand no matter what, I think.  The local guys I know have all used the dustless blasting process, with good results.  The only real complaint I have about it is the start of a little rust in areas where I previously welded, and I was able to take care of that pretty easily.

I think once I get the metal work done I may take Heo's advice, and put the car on my friend's rotisserie and tip it upside down a few times to help with any last sand removal.  It would be nightmarish to have that sand come flying out when I was painting the final color.

I do plan to use seam sealer everywhere, and I'll look at that Eastwood Corolless that you mentioned.  On the trunk drop downs and floor pans, they have already been replaced, which is why they look good.  Both original floorpans were rusted through, and so were the original trunk drop downs.  I replaced them before moving the car for structural integrity purposes, and also because I've had the replacement panels since I started on the car in 2003, and there was some surface rust on them.  The taillight panel and trunk floors were in pretty good shape on the car as it was.  And I will not be replacing the entire quarter panel, just the outside face.  I have complete quarters for the car, but the corners of the replacement panels are noticeably rounder, not as sharp, as the factory corners, so I want to leave as much of that original metal as possible. 
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on October 13, 2017, 07:38:29 AM
Well Doug, the people I know in my area who have done these sorts of restorations warned me off of dry blasting with sand, due to the heat buildup and coarser sand used, which tends to warp panels.  The only real good alternative was blasting with plastic media, but that meant transporting the car to another location, which I didn't want to do.  The blasting I had done did not warp anything at all, so I'm happy with that part of the process.  Also, I'm not buying your claim that the sand holds moisture.  I've seen no evidence of that in my car, or any evidence of the sand building up or caking anywhere.  And I'm also not buying the idea that a dry blasting of the car would let me get sand out any easier.  That enclosed area under the cowl vents is going to hold some sand no matter what, I think.  The local guys I know have all used the dustless blasting process, with good results.  The only real complaint I have about it is the start of a little rust in areas where I previously welded, and I was able to take care of that pretty easily.

Sand doesn't hold moisture? Ever looked at a sand box, a beach, or just a pile of sand anywhere? Not trying to be a smartass, but sand does hold moisture...period. I sandblast my own parts (I have a 10 gallon rolling sandblasting unit from TIP and a beadblasting cabinet), and I have to keep the sand dry or it will start to clog in my blaster. It will even gather moisture while sitting in my blaster. That's why bags of sandblasting sand are plastic lined, to limit the moisture absorbed.

The problem with sand coagulating with moisture is that it happens in areas that you can't see. Visible areas are easily flushed and blown dry, but you can't do that inside of frame rails and cowl areas without extended blow guns with long flexible tips, which I also use with dry sand. If you've ever had cars from the west or east coast areas, these things become immediately apparent. I'm not just guessing here.

It's true that sand will warp panels if you're not very careful, that's why it's best to chemical strip or plastic/walnut blast any outer sheetmetal. But I do understand that that is much more work than a total blasting process.

A rotisserie is by far the best way to remove it all, and a rubber mallet helps to tap on panels and loosen any sand that gets stuck or wedged into seams. It's a long process to remove it all, and it sucks, but if it isn't totally removed it WILL come back to haunt you when it's time to paint.

Just my experience from somebody who's not trying to sell you anything  :)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 13, 2017, 08:38:13 AM
As far as I can tell there's not enough sand left anywhere in the car to hold moisture.  Its all in cracks and crevices.  By the way, the frame rails and rocker panels in my car have not been sealed up yet; they are open on the ends.  So I can look inside in most spots and see that they are clean.  Also, I plugged those openings for the blasting process, to avoid an excessive amount of sand getting in there.  Sticking with my story on this one  ;)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: fe-starliner on October 13, 2017, 08:41:29 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong....but Jay stated the Dustless Blasting process uses ground up glass, not sand.  Maybe he's using the term "sand" but meaning the fine, ground glass, which should not coagulate with water.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 13, 2017, 09:48:48 AM
That is correct, it is glass, not sand.  Looks like sand though...
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: 67gt350 on October 13, 2017, 10:07:23 AM
All blasting procedures have there drawback that's where doing your research and asking fellow enthusiasts pays off then deciding what works best for you. I had my 70 Mustang blasted with sand by a friend who has done several cars. He used an industrial blaster but was very skilled with it - no warping. However cleaning out the sand was a nightmare! I have used Eastwood epoxy and like it but would like to make everyone aware of  the epoxy primers available from Southern Polyurethanes. Really cool product- allows for seven days to recoat, apply body fillers, or topcoat. Jay I am with you on leaving as much good original sheet metal as possible especially on quarter panels. I used a full reproduction quarter on my 68 fastback and the lines were terrible! I cut and reshaped much of it to match the passengers side which was original.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: 67gt350 on October 13, 2017, 10:12:10 AM
I forgot to mention if you do put the car on a rotisserie you can build some simple braces that triangulate between the upper/lower door hinges and the door striker like a V. You can buy them but for the cost of some material and your skill it wouldn't take long to fabricate a set which would add some strength.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Heo on October 13, 2017, 11:37:09 AM
I don't know how the glass is but with sand and moisture I'm with Dough.
If there is some sand collected somewhere it collects moisture and rusts
I did a lot of rust repairs for a couple of decades and found a lot of moisture traps.
I did a 60 impala 2 dr ht  that must have been some Beach Cruiser in California.
Floor inside the car and trunk was like new with nice white original paint
Roof above driprail was like lace due to sand accumulated under the chrome trim
and on the inside of the roof   Wheel well openings was filled with same white fine sand
and rusted out
Normal for a 59-60 chevy is they rust in bottom of A-pillar in what i call the compost
where leafs and such from air intake gathers, The floor , trunk floor and rocker panels.
This one was like new there

And nothing beats the feeling riding in a sandblasted convertible..the crushing sound of
sand between your teethand the blinding pain of sand in your eye when you hit 50 mph :o ;D ;D



Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on October 13, 2017, 02:46:04 PM
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, just help somebody avoid any future problems based on my experience.
"Absorb" is probably the wrong term to use. Sand does not absorb moisture, but rather traps it, or more accurately, allows moisture to attach itself to it. Glass beads do the same thing, although not quite as bad. I have the same issues about keeping the glass dry with my glass bead cabinet. And glass is finer than sand, so it gets trapped easier in the small areas and crevices and is even more difficult to get out. But enough of that.  :-X :-X

I'm going to double down on my statement of getting rid of it all though. That stuff will find a way into your paint if it isn't completely removed, and I mean completely. It's amazing how 150 lbs of compressed air seems to have a difficult time dislodging that stuff, but yet 15-20 lbs from a spray gun can bring that stuff out of nothingness, seemingly by the handful! >:(  I really hate blasting, but it's a necessary evil.

And I agree on the replacement panels. I haven't seen one yet that fit like a factory piece.

Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 13, 2017, 03:18:18 PM
I will certainly try to get rid of all the sand (glass, whatever).  I don't want it in my paint, that's for sure.  I have a couple local guys telling me that I'll never get rid of all of it, though.  We'll see...
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: mbrunson427 on October 13, 2017, 04:44:13 PM
One of my favorite products that I'm waiting on the EPA to ban is Sikkens Rally Black spray paint. They sell this black spray paint that I love to use for engine compartments. The way it applies makes an amateur (me) look like a respectable painter. I'm not sure the chemical make-up of it, but when you spray it you're kind of wondering if you should be using a respirator. Waiting on the folks in DC to find a problem with it.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: 67gt350 on October 13, 2017, 07:24:10 PM
Yeah the government and EPA get involved they kill a lot of great products that work! The red oxide epoxy that I used for two builds got discontinued the replacement product didn't work as well and was only available in gray >:(!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjetmech on October 14, 2017, 06:48:15 AM
All blasting procedures have there drawback that's where doing your research and asking fellow enthusiasts pays off then deciding what works best for you. I had my 70 Mustang blasted with sand by a friend who has done several cars. He used an industrial blaster but was very skilled with it - no warping. However cleaning out the sand was a nightmare! I have used Eastwood epoxy and like it but would like to make everyone aware of  the epoxy primers available from Southern Polyurethanes. Really cool product- allows for seven days to recoat, apply body fillers, or topcoat. Jay I am with you on leaving as much good original sheet metal as possible especially on quarter panels. I used a full reproduction quarter on my 68 fastback and the lines were terrible! I cut and reshaped much of it to match the passengers side which was original.

X2 on SPI products. I've used just about everything they make and imo its all the best on the market. But the Epoxy primer is just incredible stuff. I know Rusty Gillis is a big fan of their stuff and maybe he'll get on here with more info. Certainly something to try out. The prices are great and so is the customer support too. Loving this project tho Jay.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Drew Pojedinec on October 14, 2017, 07:43:53 AM
Two thoughts:

-You should wear a respirator while painting
-There isn't really an EPA anymore, because I guess that is what "the people" wanted.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 14, 2017, 08:36:34 AM
Did I say something that implied I wasn't wearing a respirator while painting?  Of course I was, it would be foolish not to...
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: thatdarncat on October 14, 2017, 09:14:27 AM
Did I say something that implied I wasn't wearing a respirator while painting?  Of course I was, it would be foolish not to...

One of the other replies.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 14, 2017, 10:14:56 AM
I thought Mike was talking about using a spray can.  I have to admit that I don't usually use a respirator when spraying from a can.  Probably should though...
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Heo on October 14, 2017, 11:59:55 AM
I have to laugh at the little turds that run around and spray grafitti
they have respirators then they take a break remove the respirator and smoke some pot  ;D
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: mbrunson427 on October 14, 2017, 09:44:46 PM
I thought Mike was talking about using a spray can.  I have to admit that I don't usually use a respirator when spraying from a can.  Probably should though...

Yeah that stuff is in a rattle can....but is much more potent than anything I’ve ever used.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: JERICOGTX on October 19, 2017, 09:45:04 AM
Coming along nicely Jay. I'll have to stop in and see it in person some time.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: prost on October 19, 2017, 03:43:11 PM
We stripped my son's '69 with a tip bought at Northern Industrial that attached to the end of the pressure washer for less than 25 dollars. Worried about the heat build up. Play sand from Home Depot had to be screened so actually found sand through a place that did headstones. Took us 2 days, but minimal cost. Took another week of washing, flipping in the rotisserie, and more washing/blowing out to get all the sand. We wound up using this tip for 2 dump trucks, a Freightliner cab, and 3 old pickups with no problems. Yep, we are stubborn....
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: steinauge on October 19, 2017, 07:44:51 PM
Jay this is a fascinating thread.Thank you!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Rory428 on October 20, 2017, 12:40:59 AM
I guess that every method of removing old paint has issues. Years ago, my buddy had a 1970 Boss 302 Redi Stripped, where they dunk the entire car shell into a huge vat of liquid chemical, and after it comes out, they wash the body inside and out with high pressure water. When they got the car back, it looked like brand new metal, other than the rusty areas. However, after months of bodtwork and preparation, when they finally painted the car (Calypso Coral orange), a few weeks later, the paint at the lower edge of the trunk lid started lifting. Turned out that some of the chemical had been lurking  in the lower edge of the trunk lid, where the inner and outer panels are folded over and crimped, and decided to emerge AFTER the car was painted.
And the guy I sold my black 69 R code Mach 1 to had the car Plasti Blasted, using very small plastic beads at high pressure to strip the paint.  He tried his best to remove all the plastic media, but after the car was completed,he said that quite often small piles of plastic debris would collect on his garage floor, on on the carpets, I guess there were hundreds (maybe thousands) of stray plastic beads that collected inside the rocker panels, frame rails, torque boxes, firewall and cowl etc, and over time, the vibrations of the car running and being driven, caused them to "dance" their way to a gap or hole and drop down.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: machoneman on October 20, 2017, 07:47:19 AM
Yes, the Redi-Strip folks by now must have seen a huge drop off in body dunking business. The bead story has been repeated elsewhere as well. I do wonder if any whole body method (walnut shells or other media) is safe!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Heo on October 20, 2017, 08:15:00 AM
Whichever way you turn your ass is behind you ::)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: rcodecj on October 22, 2017, 10:45:20 AM
I've just finished reading this entire thread from the beginning.
I must say it was the most enjoyable reading I've done in a long time.
Thank you Jay for taking the time to write this.
I must say you have a very good memory to know the time line so well.
I look forward to the continuing story line.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: gdaddy01 on October 22, 2017, 08:19:39 PM
Whichever way you turn your ass is behind you ::)
you are are funny man
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on October 22, 2017, 11:47:03 PM
I do wonder if any whole body method (walnut shells or other media) is safe!

I have had zero issues with sand getting in the paint or finding any of it anywhere since restoring my car 15+ years ago. It's been the same with others, but like I said, tapping panels with a rubber mallet, turning it on a rotisserie, repeatedly blowing (with a long blow-gun for areas like rockers and frame rails) and repeating the process for a full day is what it takes.

Dipping is just a bad idea. I've only used chemicals on the outside of body panels. If it's got rust, it either needs to be cut out or encapsulated if it's just a pinhole or in seams.

(https://s19.postimg.org/of71xzktv/0002.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: turbohunter on October 31, 2017, 02:29:30 PM
Bump.
What's new bro'?
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on October 31, 2017, 09:42:12 PM
I don't know if Jay or any of you guys remember the '68 Shelby 428 convertible I posted about a year or so ago? I didn't get a chance to post an update on the rebuild, but it was finished and just recently appraised.

I'm only posting this because I thought Jay might find it interesting.  I whited out some personal information because I don't know if the owner would want his name and VIN posted.

(https://s19.postimg.org/dgjzevzo3/Shelby.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.org/bor0jz8lf/Shelby_a.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 31, 2017, 11:13:30 PM
Thanks for posting that Doug, that is a very nice car.  The valuation seems pretty optimistic though, despite the originality.  I wonder how they came up with that?
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on November 01, 2017, 06:52:47 AM
To be honest, the guy who did the restoration was shocked also. It's a KR, so that would have added value, as would the matching numbers. The guy who did the restoration is very good, and it was done very professionally, but none of us expected it to be that high. Maybe Fords are finally starting to get the valuation that Mopars have enjoyed for years? :)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: preaction on November 01, 2017, 08:43:56 AM
Jay did you ever consider soda blasting?
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on November 01, 2017, 03:20:31 PM
No, I don't have a local source for that and I also didn't want to transport the car anywhere.  The dustless blasting guy came to me.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 28, 2020, 01:46:15 PM
Wow, it has been a LONG time since I posted an update in this thread.  Figured it was about time since I just hit the paint milestone, which has really been the biggest obstacle to getting this project completed.  In the three year interim since the last post I've been buried in making several dozen sets of custom valve covers, getting the cylinder head project off the ground, painting my 68 fastback and working some on my 69 Torino, preparing and attending a couple PRI shows, etc. etc. etc.!  This project has continually been started, then stopped and placed on the back burner, as more immediate concerns surfaced.  But the stops and starts finally have led to a painted car, and at this point the rest of the project seems downhill.  Of course, I say that...   ::)

At the end of 2017 I had the car completely stripped, dustless blasted, and epoxy primed, ready for the remaining sheet metal work.  Of course, it sat pretty much all winter that year, because I hate sheet metal work  :(  A break in the FE Power action came during the summer of 2018, but rather than doing the sheet metal work I decided to work on the fiberglass.  Previously I had mentioned here that I'd sent the fiberglass off to be plastic media blasted at a local company.  Unfortunately, that did not work out very well.  The blasting company did a test on a couple panels, and found that since there was no gelcoat on the 68 Shelby parts, the plastic media bit deep into the fiberglass and would have ruined it completely if they had continued.  So, I brought it all back home, knowing that my only real option was chemical stripping.

I bought a couple gallons of a chemical stripper specifically designed for fiberglass, and spent a good chunk of the summer, off and on, stripping the paint off the fiberglass parts.  This was a huge, huge pain in the ass, and I'd never recommend it to anyone unless there was no other alternative.  My car had a total of four paint jobs on it, the last one a multi-coat candy paint, and it was easily 5 to 7 separate applications of the stripper to finally get it all off.  In fact, on the trunk lid I never did get it all off; the factory paint just would not lift on that panel.  I figured if I couldn't get it off with the stripper, it would be OK as a base for the new paint, so I just sanded it and left it.  The hood was extremely challenging to strip, because of the louvers and scoop openings, and also because the hood had been damaged by a carb fire back in the 1980s (thank-you, leaking tripower induction system  :o ), and so it had some separating of the fiberglass laminating layers and also some body filler in it to smooth it out prior to the last paint job.  Here are a couple of pictures of the hood during the stripping process.  The original gold paint, and the original gray colored primer, are visible in the second photo:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Hood Strip1.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Hood Strip2.jpg)


After stripping it was clear that every single fiberglass part on the car needed some sort of minor repair.  The hood was the worst, and when I started the body work in earnest this past summer, I ended up re-fiberglassing a center part of the hood, where the carb fire had done the most damage.  But after getting the paint stripped during the summer of 2018 I just parked all the pieces in the shop for a while and went on to other projects.

At the start of 2019 a couple of my friends volunteered to give me a hand with the critical work of hanging the quarter panels on the car, so that got me off the dime and moving on the metal work.  My philosophy on this was to leave as much of the original metal as possible, so rather than replacing entire panels (like the outer wheelhouses, for example), I cut the aftermarket replacement panels, and trimmed them to fit .  This was done in the trunk and wheelhouse area, and also for the quarters.  Most of the quarter panels have been replaced, but we left the original seams and the original body lines that defined the edges, because looking at the replacement full quarters, you can obviously see that those are nowhere near as sharp as the originals.  Of course this took a lot more time, and all the seams were butt welded rather than overlapped, but I was happy with the result.  My friends Steve and Jerry were a huge help during this whole process, and once the quarters were on it seemed like the rest of the sheet metal work went much easier.  Here's a picture of the driver's side quarter after it was installed, and the welds were ground:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Driver Side Quarter.jpg)


As I moved on through the sheet metal work, it became clear that most of the aftermarket parts were all just a bit different than the factory parts, so rather than use them I tried to get original parts for the car wherever possible.  I had already concluded this about the aftermarket front fenders I'd acquired, and one of our forum members had been kind enough to forward me a contact in Arizona for those parts.  The original front fenders were just not worth saving (although I've kept them, and every other original part on the car that I have), so I was able to acquire a nice pair of front fenders from the guy in Arizona.  When I got working on the doors, I decided to cut the skins off to get to some rust holes in the door jamb areas, but when I did this I found that some of the internal support structure was going to get in the way of the repairs, and besides that the texture of the metal in the jamb and interior areas of the doors was not going to be easily duplicated.  So, I contacted the guy in Arizona again and was able to get a pretty nice pair of doors for the car, that didn't need any major body work or rust repair. 

By the end of 2019 I had all the sheet metal work done, which was a huge milestone for this project.  In the spring of this year I spent a month or so on the fiberglass parts, repairing them where any cracks or breaks had appeared.  There were a total of 3 fiberglass parts that I had to replace.  One was the nose panel that has the Shelby letters, one was the passenger side side scoop (which was lost along a freeway between gas stops during a 1980s road trip), and the third was the driver's side headlight bucket.  Again, despite claims of excellent quality, all of the replacement fiberglass parts needed work in order to fit like the originals.  The nose panel did not conform to the same contour as the hood, and I had to saw it and crack it in the middle, then re-fiberglass it, in order to make it match.  The headlight bucket didn't have the correct alignment of the studs to fit into the factory front fender, so that had to be fixed, plus it didn't have quite the correct contour to line up with the fender down near the bumper.  The side scoop was OK, but there are two versions of the side scoops that were used on the 68 Shelbys; mine is an early car, and the side scoop that is available is for the later cars, so I had to do bodywork on that one to make it right. 

Finally, after getting the fiberglass work done, I was able to completely assemble the body of the car for the first time since I took it apart back in 2003.  Nothing is lined up, but at least it's all there.  Another milestone:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Body Together1.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Body Together2.jpg)


Thanks to the pandemic and the inability to get the parts I needed for the cylinder head project, I finally got to the bodywork on the car starting in June.  Again my friends Steve and Jerry, and also my friend Jeff who is on this forum, were a huge help in making this part of the project successful.  I am not a great bodyman, and getting some qualified help  to identify problems and correct them was very important.  Since a good part of the car was fiberglass I used Evercoat Featherfill for all the primer-surfacer needs.  It was the first time I used that product and I was pleased with the build charateristics and sandability of the primer surfacer.  In the end I think we block sanded the car six or seven times to get it really straight.  Jeff turned me on to a product call Guide Coat, which is fogged on to the car after the primer surfacer and helps to identify low spots.  I went through a couple cans of that stuff and it really made identifying the problem areas much easier.  Here's a couple of photos of the car in primer during this process, with all the gaps right and panels aligned:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Primer 1.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Primer 2.jpg)


All during the bodywork process I'd been waffling back and forth about what color to paint the car.  I really wanted to paint it the way it had been done the previous time, with a candy red color, but I wanted to do it myself and was not confident that I could get the candy color on the car correctly.  The other option was a straight, bright red paint  job, which I was confident I could get on the car without any issues.  It would also be easier to repair any issues that came up on paint day, or match the color later on down the road.  In order to help me decide, I elected to purchase some of the candy paint and spray it on a couple test panels, to see if I had any trouble getting a nice even coat on the panels.  The paint I used is from PPG, called their Radiance II line.  This is the same paint that was used when I had the car professionally sprayed with it back in the early 1980s.  The base coat color is called Sterling Silver, and the translucent red coat is called Romanesque Crimson.  I went to my local paint store and picked up a quart of each to paint some test panels.

One thing about these candy paints is that the color changes as you spray on more coats.  The major concern I had was being able to lay the paint on evenly, so there wasn't any shadowing or mottling in the final result.  This turned out to be much, much easier than I thought it would be.  I painted one of the aftermarket front fenders I had decided not to use, plus a door skin, using exactly the same process as I planned to during the actual paint.  I also tried different numbers of coats on different areas of the test panels, just to see how the finished colors would look in the sunlight.  In the end I settled on five coats of the translucent red as the color I wanted for the car.  After doing this I decided for sure that I wanted to use this paint as the color for the car.  A picture of the test panels is below.  The blue on the fender is an artifact of the photograph, not the actual color on the fender:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby test panels.jpg)


About this time the valvesprings for my cylinder head project came, so I dropped the Shelby project again and spent the next several weeks on the cylinder head dyno mule.  After having problems with the aluminum rockers, I redesigned them in steel and sent the files off for some prototypes to be cast in 4140.  This was early September, and I figured I'd better get back on the Shelby, because I did NOT want to look at it unpainted for another winter.  A few more coats of primer surfacer and some help block sanding from my friends, and I was ready to start the painting process.

This car is the first one I've ever done where it has been blown completely apart to get painted, and so the painting was in four separate steps.  First, I disassembled the body and took the parts up into the paint booth, so I could paint the underside of the hood and trunk lid, the jamb areas of the doors, the back side of some of the other fiberglass parts, etc.  Taping off the parts that were not going to get painted was a very time consuming and tedious task.  The picture below shows these parts sitting in my shop outside the paint booth, after this part of the painting process was finished and the tape had been removed:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Body Parts.jpg)


Next with a little help I rolled the chassis and body of the car into the booth.  I had previously done some welding and bodywork on the engine compartment, and there had been some overspray from the primer surfacer that got onto the chassis inside the fenders, so I wanted to get all this painted satin black.  I completely disassembled the front suspension on the car, gave the front area a final scuffing, and shot Eastwood Chassis black in the engine compartment and other front chassis areas.  Again, it took at least a day to get everything taped up and masked prior to painting:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Engine Compartment Paint.jpg)


The third step in this process was to paint the door jamb areas, the underhood areas, and the inside of the trunk of the car.  By this time I was on my fifth roll of 3/4" masking tape, and had burned through a couple rolls of 1-1/2" and 2" also, not to mention a whole bunch of masking paper.  But after another couple of days, the car was ready and I shot the the jamb and trunk areas.  The biggest issue I had with the whole paint job was in the trunk, where it was difficult to get the gun positioned to hit all the surfaces the same.  I certainly did not get that perfect, but in the end it still came out looking pretty good.  And I'll probably be the only one who sees it LOL ;D  In addition to the jamb areas, I also decided to paint some of the lower sections of the front part of the car separately, so the lower valance panel and some of the panels inside the grille area were painted at this time also.  Getting into those areas when the whole car was assembled would have been difficult.

Finally, it was time to put the body back together and do the fourth and most important step, painting the outside of the body.  Because of the tape lines on the previously painted parts, I masked the underside of the hood, trunk, and doors back just a small amount from the paint edge, then used some 400 grit paper to sand those edges smooth, so that the new paint would go on without any kind of ridge showing.  Once again taping took about three days of part time work before I finally got it all ready to go.  Here's a picture of the car assembled in the booth, and almost ready for paint:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Assembled in Booth.jpg)


Paint day finally arrived on October 9.  My friend Steve had taken the day off to help me in the booth.  He and I have done several cars together, and have a procedure we go through where we wet the floor of the booth down between coats, and one guy (the car owner, me in this case) shoots the paint while the other guy guides the hose around the booth and watches to make sure that the painter doesn't get his clothes or the hose into the fresh paint.  This was going to be a long paint job, comprising one layer of sealer, three layers of silver base, five layers of translucent color, and five layers of clear; pretty much an all day job.  Steve brought over a couple of Tyvek suits for us to wear, again to try to keep inside the booth as clean as possible, and after a few minor touch-ups on the assembly and edges, we got started painting around noon.

I had the car up on jack stands for the paint job but even so, when I started at the back of the car I had to get down on my knees to completely paint the bottom of the rear valance panel.  Back on my feet for the trunk lid and driver side, then on my knees again for the rocker panel and lower part of the front fenders and quarters, back up to paint the hood and front end, then the passenger side, then on my knees again for the passenger side rocker panel, and finally back up to finish the passenger side of the trunk.  If I was 40 years old this wouldn't have been so bad, but after 14 coats of paint and a 7 hour painting session, my knees were shot LOL!  Here's how the car looked after the three silver base coats were on:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Silver Base.jpg)


One thing about this translucent candy paint is that several coats are required to get the color you want.  The first coat, shown in the photo below, tends to make one a little nervous LOL!  Fortunately, after doing the test panels I knew what to expect, but it is still a disturbing sight:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby First Coat.jpg)


Things improve with the second, third, fourth, and fifth coats, as shown in the photos below:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Second Coat.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Third Coat.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Fourth Coat.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Fifth Coat.jpg)


After all that the paint still has the satin finish, but a few coats of clear add the gloss.  I was paranoid about buffing into the color, so I put five coats of clear on the car, a total of two full gallons of the clear mix:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby Clear.jpg)


Naturally, on the fifth and last coat, I ran the clear in a couple spots  >:(  Oh well, that really will buff right out.

I spent the next few days taking the body all apart again, in order to remove all the tape and masking paper.  Then I got started with reassembling the front suspension of the car for the next few days, but before I could get done the wife hauled me off for a week long road trip.  The first day after we left to head South, Minnesota got a big snowstorm.  There is still snow on the ground today, so the car is currently trapped in the booth until the snow melts and I can get the car assembled and rolled around to the regular shop, hopefully this weekend, weather permitting.  I'll get a couple pictures of it before I stash it away and post them here.  With luck I can get it all put together and be driving again next year, with a supercharged 490" FE and T56 Magnum transmission.  It has been a 20 year hiatus for this car, and I have missed driving it, and now that the paint job is done, the rest will be easy.  Right?? :D
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: gdaddy01 on October 28, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
very nice , hard work pays off again .
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: 475fetoploader on October 28, 2020, 05:33:03 PM
Hats off to a real candy paint job! Not an easy task. I painted a 63 Galaxy in a tri-coat once. You really want a shoulder replacement when you’re done. That was only 3 coats of the candy color. Your arm must be ready to fall off.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Gregwill16 on October 28, 2020, 06:19:29 PM
Very impressive Jay and I love the color choice. There is a reason good paint jobs like this are expensive.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: turbohunter on October 28, 2020, 07:13:09 PM
Very freakin’ sexy.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: RJP on October 28, 2020, 07:41:34 PM
Beautiful job, Jay. I also love the color.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: WConley on October 28, 2020, 10:31:04 PM
Going to look sweet, Jay!  That sure looks like a ton of work.  8)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on October 29, 2020, 12:01:04 AM
You're lucky it's a convertible and that you didn't have to paint the roof..lol

Nice paint booth. Does it have a bake system? Now comes the fun part....wet sanding until your arm falls off.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: My427stang on October 29, 2020, 06:23:42 AM
Looks great Jay!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 29, 2020, 09:14:41 AM
You're lucky it's a convertible and that you didn't have to paint the roof..lol

Nice paint booth. Does it have a bake system? Now comes the fun part....wet sanding until your arm falls off.

You are soooo right about the roof.  Lots easier on the arm without having to paint that LOL!

No bake system in my booth, it is a cross draft booth I bought from Autobody Toolmart years ago.  Back then I was hunting around for quotes to get my Galaxie painted, and despite the fact that there was only minimal body work required and no rust on the car, all the quotes came in at >$10K.  I bought the booth for $6K, and over a long weekend a few of my friends and I got it installed.  We probably only average painting 1-2 cars per year in there, but I figure over 10 years it has saved me $50K in body shop costs, plus I don't have to put the cars in "paint jail" like other people do.  I would hate that...

Wet sanding and buffing the car will no doubt take some time and effort, but again - no roof!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Bolted to Floor on October 29, 2020, 11:57:29 AM
Paint jail like other people…..come on now…..the Shelby has been locked away in the Jay Brown paint jail with unlimited visitation rights.   ;)

The color looks great. Nice work.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Heo on October 29, 2020, 12:18:42 PM
I hear you on the not sharp edges on replacement panels. Now i had not done any big
shetmetal work since my strokes 20 plus years ago. But then it was many bad panels
in circulation, to thin, bodylines on the wrong place, e.t.c. Worst was Maderight panels
right gauge but made to fit outside on the original panel ;D ;D. Very "soft" creases
The Taiwan made Mustang panels was often so thin so even spotwelding made them
shrink and wrinkel. Often it was easier to made my own panels
That thing with masking lines, 3M have a blue thin plastic masking tape that leave
almost no paint line  think it is called Fineline tape.  By the way the car look amazing
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on October 29, 2020, 03:35:11 PM
Paint jail like other people…..come on now…..the Shelby has been locked away in the Jay Brown paint jail with unlimited visitation rights.   ;)

Well, I guess you're right about that.  But at least I'm the jailer LOL!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: AlanCasida on October 29, 2020, 06:57:52 PM
Man that looks fantastic, Jay! Well down. I'm glad you decided not to go the restoration route. There are enough of them out there. You'll have a lot of fun in this.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on November 06, 2020, 03:49:45 PM
Finally got the car into a roller today.  After painting was done I spent a couple days taking the whole car apart in order to get all the tape off.  Then I decided I should get the weatherstrip on before I put the car back together, in order to get the panels aligned right the first time, so I had to order that, wait a week for it to come, then get it installed.  Finally I got the whole front suspension cleaned up and reinstalled, and just got the car out of the booth this morning.  It's a nice sunny day here in Minnesota, but the pictures just do not do the paint justice. 

Tomorrow I have to start color sanding and buffing.  Then I can FINALLY start putting this thing back together...

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby painted1.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby painted2.jpg)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: turbohunter on November 06, 2020, 04:23:39 PM
Fast work really.
I know it feels like forever but that’s really great.
It looks beautiful.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: thatdarncat on November 06, 2020, 05:03:44 PM
Absolutely stunning!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Stangman on November 06, 2020, 09:29:00 PM
Nice Jay it does pop in the sun.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: WConley on November 07, 2020, 01:07:07 AM
Jay - Are you putting the G.T. 500 stripes on the rockers?  Will they be black?

Looks killer!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: e philpott on November 07, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
looks great
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on November 07, 2020, 12:14:38 PM
Jay - Are you putting the G.T. 500 stripes on the rockers?  Will they be black?

Looks killer!

Sure will, Bill, what would a Shelby be without the stripes?  They will be black; the whole car should be red, black, and polished aluminum or chrome.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: WConley on November 07, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
(https://www.memesmonkey.com/images/memesmonkey/95/957daf3aff4e35b38098c197361db547.jpeg)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: JERICOGTX on November 09, 2020, 08:11:50 AM
Car is coming along nice Jay. Glad to be a small help in this project, that will make purists cry.

For those following, wait until you see the car in person. Maybe jay can bring it to a future FE reunion. Pictures do not do the color justice, and we are currently putting a proper cut and buff on it.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cobracammer on November 09, 2020, 10:08:29 AM
I have always loved those spoked Shelby wheels.  Car looks amazing Jay!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: TimeWarpF100 on November 28, 2020, 09:57:05 AM
Looks Great! Any updates?
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on November 28, 2020, 05:37:23 PM
The car has been color sanded and buffed, and I'm slowly getting the trim items put on; I'll post a picture when I have those all installed.  It's going kind of slow because I have a LOT of FE Power stuff to do right now...
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: turbohunter on November 28, 2020, 08:28:22 PM
Trim takes forever. I’m still doing it on mine.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: 427Fastback on November 28, 2020, 10:40:33 PM
Looks great Jay...Are you going to leave the woodgrain dash stuff in it..
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on November 29, 2020, 11:19:41 AM
Yes, I plan to keep the interior all stock, except that I will be replacing all the gauges with Autometer Phantom II gauges.  Will also be re-wiring the whole car, and upgrading the lighting.  Last night I installed the taillight panel with the new LED taillights, and they look great, nice and bright.  Trying to make sure that some idiot looking at his/her phone sees the brake lights and avoids crashing into the back of my car >:(
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: gdaddy01 on November 29, 2020, 01:02:28 PM
good luck with that , the wife and I went and got tested for the virus , in one of those drive though stations , some women runs into the back of my truck as I was sitting in line , messing with her cell phone . the front of her SUV did like the trailer ball on the back of my truck
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on December 13, 2020, 03:23:13 PM
Finally got all the trim on the car.  Again, the photos do not do it justice, the color really pops in person:

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby wtrim1.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby wtrim2.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby wtrim3.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby wtrim4.jpg)

(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shelby wtrim5.jpg)


The last photo shows the brake lights on.  I wired in some dummy wiring to get this shot, and also to check to make sure that the emergency flasher relay would blink the LED lights.  Obviously they are much, much brighter than stock with the LED bulbs, but as gdaddy01 says, sometimes there's no preventing stupid people from doing stupid things... >:(

I took the left front spring out for these pictures, and also to check clearance between the front tire and the fender.  Once I had it jacked up to ride height, I checked the camber, and it is currently set exactly at zero.  Clearance is very tight.  There is no interference when the suspension is up against the bump stop and the wheel is straight, but I do start to get some interference when the suspension is up against the bump stop and the tire is turned about 15 degrees in either direction.  I plan to run a half degree of negative camber on the front suspension, so that will help a little, but only about a tenth of an inch if my trig calculations are correct.  I have already trimmed the fender lip and the wheelwell trim as much as I can, so no help there.  I may look at thinning down the brake rotor hat (which is really thick at over 1/2") to get more clearance, but I think I will drive the car cautiously at the start, and see if there are any obvious problems.  Outside of thinning down the brake rotor hat I don't know what else I can do, and I'm kind of married to the tire/wheel combination, so hopefully it will be good, or very close to good, as is. 

Next step is to get the interior black painted, the firewall blanket and heater assembly installed, and the steering column back in the car, just to get that out of the way.  Then I'm going to wire the lights.  I've decided to re-wire the car mostly from scratch, rather than trying to use the old wire harness (which is hacked up beyond belief), or buy a new harness and hack that one up to make it work with the EFI system, new instruments, electric fans, electric fuel pump, electric water pump, etc.  I've been able to acquire all the connectors I need for the factory switches, except for the one for the factory light switch, which is listed at National Parts Depot but out of stock.  So, I'll be able to plug in to all the factory equipment to keep the car looking mostly stock in the interior, and to use all the connectors that come with the replacement turn signal lights, running lights, headlights, etc.  I'm really looking forward to getting a battery in the car and all the lighting sorted out.  Then it's just interior, convertible top, and engine/trans.  I'll try to post an update when I have some more significant progress.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: WConley on December 13, 2020, 11:18:42 PM
Jay -  Looks great with all of the exterior trim!  I can really see all of those hours getting the gaps right on the body.  Paint looks super!
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Keith Stevens on December 13, 2020, 11:29:26 PM
I also went with the WCCC tail Plasma LEDS in my Shelby. It has mechanical sequentials in it with these bulbs. Too many idiots just have their head in their backside. Next is hiding a set of obnoxious train horns that function off a switch under the dash and relays so I can make idiots jump out of their skins.
The car looks great, Jay.  It took me about three years to assemble my car post returning from paint.

The local Friday night cruise and park.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: winr1 on December 13, 2020, 11:31:18 PM
Wow !!   .. nice



Ricky.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on December 14, 2020, 12:52:46 AM
Very nice!
If there's room, you could try milling a bit off the rear of the rim mounting pad also, to gain a little. As long as it doesn't get into the transition to the ribs, it shouldn't lose any strength.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Keith Stevens on December 14, 2020, 01:05:35 AM
Here is how bright the running lights are with Plasma LEDs.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: gdaddy01 on December 14, 2020, 06:00:10 PM
Keith , where did you get those lights ? thanks , ronnie
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: 70tp on December 14, 2020, 06:25:12 PM
Incredible is all I can say
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Keith Stevens on December 14, 2020, 07:52:52 PM
Keith , where did you get those lights ? thanks , ronnie

Ronnie:
Vic was instrumental in helping me make come up with ideas when I made a factory style harness that allowed me to incorporate OE sequential lighting in my Shelby. He also developed the tower LED with directional lighting.  Here is Vic's link.
They are also available from Don at West Coast Classic Cougar.

http://www.thuntek.net/cougars_unlimited/

https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/Search.aspx?CatID=15901&SearchTerms=Plasma%20led&Type=AND
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on December 15, 2020, 07:48:22 AM
I also went with the WCCC tail Plasma LEDS in my Shelby.

Not to split hairs, but the term "Plasma LED" annoys me. There is no such thing as a "Plasma LED". You can have a LEP (light emitting plasma), or you can have an LED (light emitting diode), but you can not have the 2 together, especially in the confines of a small automotive bulb. It's nothing more than a selling gimmick aimed at misleading the buyer (in other words, a blatant lie). Those lights are nothing more than a high output LED, with controlled directional light by the use of a lens.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Keith Stevens on December 15, 2020, 08:05:24 AM
I won't split hairs with you, as Vic Yarberry is the engineer of the product and a retired electrical engineer and they are somehow a hybrid of both.   
I didn't bother to retain information provided when we discussed them.
What I can tell you is they function like no other directional led bulb I've seen.  Which is quite a few. 
If you want to satisfy your curiosity give him a call. I wouldn't mine a forensic breakdown.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: badcatt on December 15, 2020, 11:36:49 AM
I also went with the WCCC tail Plasma LEDS in my Shelby.

Not to split hairs, but the term "Plasma LED" annoys me. There is no such thing as a "Plasma LED". You can have a LEP (light emitting plasma), or you can have an LED (light emitting diode), but you can not have the 2 together, especially in the confines of a small automotive bulb. It's nothing more than a selling gimmick aimed at misleading the buyer (in other words, a blatant lie). Those lights are nothing more than a high output LED, with controlled directional light by the use of a lens.
Regardless of correctness of the  name, They are a fine product. I have them in my White 70 XR-7. Much brighter then the original 1157's and have not had a bulb fail in 5 years. I use to have to replace an 1157 about once a year.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Bolted to Floor on December 15, 2020, 01:04:01 PM




I took the left front spring out for these pictures, and also to check clearance between the front tire and the fender.  Once I had it jacked up to ride height, I checked the camber, and it is currently set exactly at zero.  Clearance is very tight.  There is no interference when the suspension is up against the bump stop and the wheel is straight, but I do start to get some interference when the suspension is up against the bump stop and the tire is turned about 15 degrees in either direction.  I plan to run a half degree of negative camber on the front suspension, so that will help a little, but only about a tenth of an inch if my trig calculations are correct.  I have already trimmed the fender lip and the wheelwell trim as much as I can, so no help there.  I may look at thinning down the brake rotor hat (which is really thick at over 1/2") to get more clearance, but I think I will drive the car cautiously at the start, and see if there are any obvious problems.  Outside of thinning down the brake rotor hat I don't know what else I can do, and I'm kind of married to the tire/wheel combination, so hopefully it will be good, or very close to good, as is. 


What about taking material from the mounting pad of the rim? I contacted American Racing about mine and they said it was possible. They referred me to a guy here in Houston that could do it and tell me how much could be removed. That guy said 1/4 was possible, I settled for an 1/8". Cost me $45 a rim.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Keith Stevens on December 15, 2020, 03:19:04 PM
I also went with the WCCC tail Plasma LEDS in my Shelby.

Not to split hairs, but the term "Plasma LED" annoys me. There is no such thing as a "Plasma LED". You can have a LEP (light emitting plasma), or you can have an LED (light emitting diode), but you can not have the 2 together, especially in the confines of a small automotive bulb. It's nothing more than a selling gimmick aimed at misleading the buyer (in other words, a blatant lie). Those lights are nothing more than a high output LED, with controlled directional light by the use of a lens.

I couldn't agree with you more!  They were changed for safety/awareness for other dunderheads who have to live with their faced planted in a mobile device or one variety or another.   I am used to multi-tasking because it's part of the job.  Looking down at the floor because you feel the need to read a facebook post, text  or even watch TV is simply dangerously negligent and irresponsible, especially in heavy traffic.

My next task is a set of obnoxiously loud electric train horns.
Regardless of correctness of the  name, They are a fine product. I have them in my White 70 XR-7. Much brighter then the original 1157's and have not had a bulb fail in 5 years. I use to have to replace an 1157 about once a year.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on December 15, 2020, 07:02:17 PM

What about taking material from the mounting pad of the rim? I contacted American Racing about mine and they said it was possible. They referred me to a guy here in Houston that could do it and tell me how much could be removed. That guy said 1/4 was possible, I settled for an 1/8". Cost me $45 a rim.

I think Doug mentioned this earlier.  Surprisingly, there is not much meat on the wheel mounting surface.  The wheels use conical seat lug nuts, and the distance between the wheel mounting surface and the start of the conical mounting surface is only 1/4".  I just don't feel comfortable cutting anything off that surface.

As long as we are talking about LED lighting, I used the ones linked below.  I like them because the sequential electronics is built right into the LED light assembly.  There are three different bulb assemblies, an inside, a center, and an outside for the three sections of the tail light panel.  They must have some kind of a timer built into the electronics, because they work flawlessly, even though they are wired like a standard non-sequential taillight.  Screw them into the standard 1157 socket, and you're done.

https://www.npdlink.com/product/led-sequential-taillight-conversion/176372/200447?year=1968


Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: gdaddy01 on December 15, 2020, 11:04:10 PM
thanks Jay and Keith , I have a 67 and would like to upgrade , repair , get them working correctly after 40 years .
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Keith Stevens on December 15, 2020, 11:32:39 PM
Here is the bulb-style I'm using.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on December 16, 2020, 01:15:31 AM
As long as we are talking about LED lighting, I used the ones linked below.  I like them because the sequential electronics is built right into the LED light assembly.  There are three different bulb assemblies, an inside, a center, and an outside for the three sections of the tail light panel.  They must have some kind of a timer built into the electronics, because they work flawlessly, even though they are wired like a standard non-sequential taillight.  Screw them into the standard 1157 socket, and you're done.

https://www.npdlink.com/product/led-sequential-taillight-conversion/176372/200447?year=1968

If you haven't also considered replacing the dash bulbs with LEDs, you might give it a thought. I switched mine out and am very pleased with them. The factory dash lighting is pretty dim and the LED upgrade makes them look really nice. I also changed out my taillights at the same time. I definitely like them better also.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: jayb on December 16, 2020, 09:55:58 AM
I may do that, but I'll be using all Autometer gauges in the car, and they are not that bad to begin with, certainly not as dim as the factory instrument lighting.  Might try it with and without the LED bulbs on an instrument or two and see what it's like.  Not sure where I can get a replacement LED bulb for the Autometer gauges; I guess I'll have to look into that...
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: Royce on December 16, 2020, 10:50:23 AM
https://www.autometer.com/led-bulb-replacement-t1-3-4-wedge-blue-for-monster-tach.html (https://www.autometer.com/led-bulb-replacement-t1-3-4-wedge-blue-for-monster-tach.html)
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: cjshaker on December 16, 2020, 11:29:56 AM
It probably is a non-issue with the Autometer gauges. I was assuming stock gauges. All the Autometer stuff I've used seems to be bright enough.
Title: Re: 68 Shelby GT-500 Convertible Project and Retrospective
Post by: TomP on December 21, 2020, 02:05:27 AM
That paint job looks amazing. Not many guys could do a paint job like that and yet know enough about mechanical things to build engines.
 I am eager to see the car in person.