FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Lenz on June 02, 2017, 02:30:41 PM
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I'm currently running Flowmaster mufflers and the constant drone in the car at highway speeds has to go. Need to run something that still sounds great but would also allow for conversation if you happen to have another human in the car with you. Any preferences from experience?
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I'm a glass packs guy myself, but hooker max flow are quiet at moderate throttle but loud when you crack it. They have a nice sound as well.
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Len refresh my memory, do the pipes dump under the car, at the side or do they go out back?
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Marc, setup is Hooker Super Comp headers to the Flowmasters located ahead of the axle then out all the way beneath the bumper.
I would have thought the complete system would have carried the sound behind more but I found it doesn't work that way, the interior appears to serve as the resonator.
I may yet try something as simple as Jamie's stance and pick up a pair of glasspacks just to try them out. I'm not looking to overthink this, just want to retain a solid FE sound at cruise. Everything sounds good when you mash the throttle.
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i have run cherrybombs and glasspacks for 35 years.with a full exhaust they are fairly quite at idle and cruise,but when you hit the gas they blast out.i had a 3 inch collector going into 2 inch glasspacks and the back pressure made it sound like a indy car.i have since changed to 3 inch exhaust all the way back with 3 inch flowmasters.imo i liked the glasspack-cherrybomb sound way better
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I run Borla ProXS on my Mustang and Jones Max Flow on my truck, both 3 inch, and both had Flows (the same set) and I figured the truck wouldn't resonate.
http://www.jonesexhaust.com/products.cfm?ProductTOC=4
The Flowmasters now sit on the shelf where they have for years now.
Go with a good absorption muffler like I listed above, or Magnaflow, etc. Any reflecting muffler converts the noise into heat and mechanical energy, they resonate somewhere and usually in a big engine, it's someplace uncomfortable
The Borla's have a little more bark than the Jones, but I really like the Jones for cost, performance and fit.
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I've been a big fan of Borla's for several years now. Specifically, the Pro-XS series. They flow great, give a nice deep tone at idle and cruise, get aggressive when getting on it, and best of all, NO drone. The Flowmasters drove me nuts! They resonate like nothing else I've ever heard.
A problem I always had with glasspacks was the glass packing being blown out. The Borlas have a fiberglass packing, but they use what they call "continuous filament" fibers, basically really long pieces that can't be sucked and blown out of the small perforated holes, and I have not seen any of it being blown out on any of mine. That's with 3 sets, on the Mustang, the Galaxie and the truck. Stainless construction is always nice as well.
Sound bytes always help, so here's a short one of the Borla's on my Mustang, but note that they sound a bit more aggressive on it because of the cam overlap...
https://youtu.be/PDiG2OSZ0bw
And one from inside the car...
https://youtu.be/1dJnx0EZK1g
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The reason I ask Len is that I'll be running basically the same set up all the way out the back.
I have rediscovered that I like the sound of the Flowmasters though I admit I was tired of them for awhile. I know that may sound weird but I think the drone you are talking about is the reason I got tired of them. However, that was with the pipes dumping out under the car. I'm hoping the sound deadening I'm doing on the mustang will take care of that drone as well as running the pipes out the back.
I love the sound of glass packs also but in my experience they may blow out after a while and get loud. I say "may" because I have run them on both of my trucks. The higher hp 440 blew them out fairly quickly but the little 292 y is still purring along.
Good luck, hope you find your sweet spot.
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Here is mine with the Borlas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtTEvZ2uQmA
and the 445 with the Jones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf3D5c9ZZfs
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I have rediscovered that I like the sound of the Flowmasters though I admit I was tired of them for awhile. I know that may sound weird but I think the drone you are talking about is the reason I got tired of them. However, that was with the pipes dumping out under the car. I'm hoping the sound deadening I'm doing on the mustang will take care of that drone as well as running the pipes out the back.
I have probably 40 lbs of sound deadener in the Mustang, and it does a fantastic job of muffling road noise, car noises etc, but it didn't help a bit with the Flowmasters, and that was with a full 2 1/2" exhaust.
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i have never had any stuffing come out of my glasspacks.i ran 1 set for 20 years.i cut them open when i took them off.the fiberglass had moved to the rear of the muffler,but none came out after 20 years of running,8 years was to work and back 5 days a week.my dad ran them on his 56 crowns for years,no problems.mufflers are a personal pref anyway,but cherrybombs and glasspacks have been good to us,but it would not surprise me if some stuffing came out of somebody else's muffler,but not mine
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Well, the audio clips do the talking for sure. My system is 2 1/2" and I'm also running a high overlap cam, idle characteristics are very close to those recorded.
From Doug's in car it sounds like a passenger could ride along with that for hours without needing medication. I'm going to check out the Borlas to be sure even though I know they are more costly. The higher cost is not nearly as valuable as getting the right part in this case.
Marc, I thought I would be fine with the Flows too, but they've worn me down. Your Mustang is a beautiful piece and clearly purpose built. Since you remember the flows I would agree the drone is probably why you got rid of them in the end, but they might be just what you need to get the sound you want. I do agree with Doug though, I have new interior and sound deadener and it seems as though I'm running bare steel floors for noise.
My Galaxie is a whole other animal, we tend to pack it with friends and family so turning your head and shouting to communicate has just gotten old. Plus, I don't want to carry ear plugs in the glove box anymore :D
Thanks to all for the feedback
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I'm currently running Flowmaster mufflers and the constant drone in the car at highway speeds has to go. Need to run something that still sounds great but would also allow for conversation if you happen to have another human in the car with you. Any preferences from experience?
My recommendation is the Dynomax Ultraflo welded muffler. Install the largest muffler body you can fit.
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Len, that in-car video was made with my phone, which has a pretty sensitive mic (which you can hear with all the little noises going on). I can talk comfortably with my wife when we're out driving in it. You probably couldn't whisper sweet nothings into her ear, but a conversation is no problem ;D The truck is very quiet inside the cab. I don't even have to raise my voice at all. But yes, Borla's are a bit more expensive.
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Ha, to get to the wife's ear I need to cross a vast expanse of red vinyl and probably crawl over a grandkid, but good to know ;D.
Already looked up the ProXS series on line and the price seems fair to me for a quality stainless piece. I get most of my stuff through Summit, the free shipping gets here overnight. Time to take some careful measurements and get started.
Thanks again to all for the input-
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I have rediscovered that I like the sound of the Flowmasters though I admit I was tired of them for awhile. I know that may sound weird but I think the drone you are talking about is the reason I got tired of them. However, that was with the pipes dumping out under the car. I'm hoping the sound deadening I'm doing on the mustang will take care of that drone as well as running the pipes out the back.
I have probably 40 lbs of sound deadener in the Mustang, and it does a fantastic job of muffling road noise, car noises etc, but it didn't help a bit with the Flowmasters, and that was with a full 2 1/2" exhaust.
What part number borla's do you recommend for the 427 fe? Thanks!
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[quote I get most of my stuff through Summit, the free shipping gets here overnight. Time to take some careful measurements and get started.
Thanks again to all for the input-
[/quote]
What a dream.Be able get the stuff next day with free shipping and without 50% extra taxes
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We feel for ya Heo.
To be a gear head over there requires some admirable determination.
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Its a continuing uphill :D
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What part number borla's do you recommend for the 427 fe? Thanks!
I have 2 1/2" exhaust, currently, so the #40659 is what it takes for my Mustang. It has an offset inlet and center outlet, which is pretty much required on a Mustang to keep the exhaust tucked up tight under the car, but other cars may be different.
I'd prefer a 3" exhaust, especially from a performance standpoint, but it's pretty darned tight getting around the staggered shocks, and with the 2 1/2", I can remove the tailpipes by jacking up the rear of the car and letting the differential drop down. I don't think I could get away with that with a 3" pipe.
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Heo, I'm sure I don't understand half of the struggle you can have getting parts that we can get almost instantly and at much less cost. I'm sure on top of everything else there are long in-transit times too.
To say it takes admirable determination pretty much nails it in my view. And the 50% extra taxes on top too???? >:(
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Today its a lot easier and faster then in the 80s when i
started to import parts. Then it was a procedure of a couple
of months.Today its down to 2-3 weeks. Funny thing is
the shipping from US to Sweden 2-3 days then the shipping
to my place 10-20 days if the Swedish post take care of it ???
If say DHL or UPS take care of it i can have the parts from US
to my place in 5-7 days
Mufflers or say some ordinary SBF or SBC parts i can get the
next day from some Swedish vendor but it will cost me .
I understand that, They don't run some welfare muffler aid organisation
Then in the 80s it was the constant harassment from the cops.
You was considered a menace to society if you drove an American car
If a cop saw you they stop you and tried hard to find some reason
to send you out for technical inspection and write a ticket
A friend had to tow his Nova because of 1 inch to narrow mudflaps :o
What a criminal ::)
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Lenz, if you remember my truck has a set of 3" sst mufflers that I made. Sound is not loud till I get on it, not offenceive doesn't drone a speed and free flowing. My galaxie has a close to stock system and has a nice rap to it, no muufflers in the stock location ,but they are placed where the resonaters are. My GTO has the stock system on it but Cherry Bombs in place of the mufflers. Sounds nice till I jump it, also it drones at 55mph to 60. This is all the car has had since it was 3yrs old and last year got a new replacement system on head pipes. Call will talk.
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Heo, sounds like the world could benefit from a book on how to sneak an American car over there and avoid trouble with the authorities. Although I do remember a time here in PA when you failed inspection for too much tire exposed beyond the wheelhouse, maybe our law folks were working with yours in an international scheme to dig up some extra revenue? :P
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They were against generally any kind of modified vehicle
I had a Triumph Boneville.....today i guess it would be called
a Street tracker. No front fender,Megaphones,short rearfender....
the cops absolutely loved that bike ;D They wanted to check it
out and talk to me every time they saw me, And wanted me to
show it to the guys at technical inspection so they got to See it
to ;D. But we got organised and protested some guys did and do
helluva job. Now the fenderlaw for motorcycles is gone, Fenderlaw for cars
is to be removed from May 2018. 30year old cars is free from
roadtax. 1950 and older is free from annual tec inspection. From may 2018
it will be a rolling 40 years and 30 for motorcycle tec insp free
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Lenz,
just about nothing drones worse than a flowturdmaster. I can't comment on the Borla, but I've had flowturdmasters, the flowturdmaster deltaturd, and all the other mufflers I will comment on.
Any glass pack will sound good, but LOUD.
THe spintecks I had just sounded crappy all the time.
THe Dynomax ultraflow SS is the choice for power, quiet idle, lots of bark at WOT, some drone at highway cruise, but not nearly as bad as a flowturdmaster.
Next is the Dynomax Super Turbo. (or probably any similarly built turbo muffler) More restrictive than the Ultraflow, but nice muffled sound at idle, but still lets you know it's a hot rod, reasonably quiet at WOT, and just a little drone on the highway.
Then you have a Hemi muffler. Very similar to a turbo muff, except no drone, and less restrictive.
Last is the quiet-flow. Very restrictive, but OEM cadillac quiet. When I was daily driving my 500 inch Elcamino, I wanted to hear the radio, have conversations, make business call on the cell. THis was the only muffler of the several I tried that was really quiet behind that hotrod mill.
Here is my Ultraflow SS's at WOT from outside the car:
https://youtu.be/snKfkP8nqg4 (https://youtu.be/snKfkP8nqg4)
Here is some cruising around with Ultraflow SS's: (no carpet padding or sound deadener, 735 horse hemi, 2.5" from the manifolds to the rear bumper)
https://youtu.be/nKfPiVjUdjU?t=2m51s
I like them.
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I really like my Hooker Aerochambers. We have them on three different cars. Two FE powered and one SBF. No drone that I can tell. Nice tone and not obnoxiously loud. Mufflers are pretty much straight-through. I bought the 2 1/2" polished stainless ones for my car.
Here's the old wheezy 390:
http://vid12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/jaredaebly/Fairlane%20390%20Idle%20Aerochamber_zpso8jspzmj.mp4
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Lenz,
just about nothing drones worse than a flowturdmaster. I can't comment on the Borla, but I've had flowturdmasters, the flowturdmaster deltaturd, and all the other mufflers I will comment on.
Any glass pack will sound good, but LOUD.
THe spintecks I had just sounded crappy all the time.
THe Dynomax ultraflow SS is the choice for power, quiet idle, lots of bark at WOT, some drone at highway cruise, but not nearly as bad as a flowturdmaster.
Next is the Dynomax Super Turbo. (or probably any similarly built turbo muffler) More restrictive than the Ultraflow, but nice muffled sound at idle, but still lets you know it's a hot rod, reasonably quiet at WOT, and just a little drone on the highway.
Then you have a Hemi muffler. Very similar to a turbo muff, except no drone, and less restrictive.
Last is the quiet-flow. Very restrictive, but OEM cadillac quiet. When I was daily driving my 500 inch Elcamino, I wanted to hear the radio, have conversations, make business call on the cell. THis was the only muffler of the several I tried that was really quiet behind that hotrod mill.
Here is my Ultraflow SS's at WOT from outside the car:
https://youtu.be/snKfkP8nqg4 (https://youtu.be/snKfkP8nqg4)
Here is some cruising around with Ultraflow SS's: (no carpet padding or sound deadener, 735 horse hemi, 2.5" from the manifolds to the rear bumper)
https://youtu.be/nKfPiVjUdjU?t=2m51s
I like them.
Spot on IMHO, the Ultraflow, Magnaflow, ProXS, Hooker MaxFlow and Jones MaxFlow are all the same pass through absorption design too, so pick your poison The reason I changed from Flows on all my vehicles to this style is absolutely because of drone and interior noise, then secondary benefit was more power, especially part throttle/mid range.
In my truck, if I am driving easy, it is very quiet, in the Mustang I have a little more bark, but easily listen to the radio and can talk without having to fight the noise of the car.
By losing the Flows, the engine still has lots of bark when you hit it, but it comes out of the pipes behind you not through the body.
BTW, my large body Flowmaster Deltaflows came off my Mustang, and I figured that they would be fine under the bed of the truck, almost near the bumper. They were better out there than in the car, but still boomed at certain cruise RPM, amazed me that I could hear it when they were behind the axle. Threw the Jones on there, it changed the demeanor of the truck
I just can't imagine using a reflective muffler on anything unless I was forced to.
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I just can't imagine using a reflective muffler on anything unless I was forced to.
At gunpoint? ;D
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When you're all alone out there. ;D
Tongue firmly planted in cheek.
Sorry Jay
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/turbohunter1/IMG_0358.jpg)
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Well Marc, somebody's gotta wanna run Flowmasters ;D It would seem that there are several good choices but none so disliked as the Flow"turd"master.
Thanks for the additional audio and vids gentlemen. I'm picking up a subtle but negative vibe from Joel that may only be eclipsed by the fact that Ross apparently tried them on everything he owns (except the washing machine?) before he gave up and put them on the shelf.
I checked out the Hooker Aeros too, apparently the pick your poison view isn't far off the mark so long as one avoids the reflective design.
Gotta say too, less that a mile from my house there's a guy with a '66 Nova running a 383 sbc. He had a bunch of parts on a trailer out front and I spotted a pair of mufflers welded up to some straight stainless with header flanges. Saw $20 written on one. Got close enough to see they were Flowmasters, didn't ask him why he took them off the car......
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Got close enough to see they were Flowmasters, didn't ask him why he took them off the car......
This isn't multiple choice....you only get one guess. ;D
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I RUN 2" HEADERS, 3-1/2" PIPES, 3-1/2" DYNOMAX BULLETS, AND TURNDOWNS. MY X-PIPE QUIETS IT DOWN A LOT. WHAAAAAT DID YOU SAY????????
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_14967902979629&key=0eff82a158b9bcd735539ea921a97f93&libId=j3m6a9yc010009tm000DAmfzmmdv3&cuid=f-&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.network54.com%2FForum%2F76346%2Fthread%2F1407879152&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fvid231.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee289%2Fplovett%2FIMG_0557_zps018d716d.mp4&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.network54.com%2FForum%2F76346%2Fsearch%3Fsearchterm%3Dg-tech%2Bfelony%26sort%3Dmatch&title=FordFE.com%20Gallery%3A%20Smelly%20Cat%201%2F4%20mile%20video%20(non-turbo%20G-Tech%20for%20Felony)&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fvid231.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee289%2Fplovett%2FIMG_0557_zps018d716d.mp4
paulie
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And here's the ugly cat idling out of the parking lot with the 3-1/2" bullets. The video is over 3 years old, but my Cougar has the same setup today.
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_149679202840513&key=0eff82a158b9bcd735539ea921a97f93&libId=j3m77rtf010009tm000DAm71ueizx&cuid=f-&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.network54.com%2FForum%2F76346%2Fthread%2F1407963636&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fvid231.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee289%2Fplovett%2FIMG_0555_zps47c3907e.mp4&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.network54.com%2FForum%2F76346%2Fsearch%3Fsearchterm%3Dsmelly%2Bcat%2Bprequel%26sort%3Dmatch&title=FordFE.com%20Gallery%3A%20Smelly%20Cat%20-%20The%20prequel&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fvid231.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee289%2Fplovett%2FIMG_0555_zps47c3907e.mp4
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Nice vids Paulie, a tad loud for my purposes but your co-pilot seems to like the decibels right where they are. I did notice a lot of cars on the return road at the strip tho.. :D
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I did notice a lot of cars on the return road at the strip tho.. :D
That's pretty funny right there. :)
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you guys are making me feel bad about my flowmasters on my car,i have the loudest ones,whatever they are50s 30s i dont know but the muffler shop said it was their loudest straight thru version.i got them many years ago when flowmasters were cool,because some of these newer mufflers was not out yet
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you guys are making me feel bad about my flowmasters on my car,i have the loudest ones,whatever they are50s 30s i dont know but the muffler shop said it was their loudest straight thru version.i got them many years ago when flowmasters were cool,because some of these newer mufflers was not out yet
Hold strong brother. Let the force flow...........master :-)
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I'm not as down on Flowmasters as most.
The trick, in my opinion is to size them big. I like to do that on exhaust anyway. You could even neck the pipe up at the muffler and neck it down afterward, if you like the sound. Or just make the whole system big.
JMO,
paulie
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I'm hoping that's the key Paulie.
Along with cross pipe and all the way out the back.
I'll certainly let you guys know if it's a total failure at around 2k rpm.
I'm not proud.
To my ear you can't beat them at idle and wot though.
Though the Borlas sound pretty darn nice also.
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A person likes what they like, and there isn't anything wrong with that. I don't mind the sound of Flowmasters, and I likely wouldn't have spent the money to change them on a regular street car, but the drone inside was just TORTURE!
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but the drone inside was just TORTURE!
nah, torture would be me in the passenger seat for 1000 miles of Drag Week. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes I just can't shut up no matter how many times you hit me. What dya' say, Doug? We could talk about our feelings for hours......
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We could talk about our feelings for hours......
Suddenly those Flowmasters don't seem like such a bad idea. ;D
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i guess at least i can say i have 3 inch flowmasters,3 inch x pipe and 3 inch out the back,where it belongs
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We could talk about our feelings for hours......
Suddenly those Flowmasters don't seem like such a bad idea. ;D
Hey, I have LOTS of feelings. Hot, cold, hunger, pain. Actually that's all of 'em.
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I run Flowmaster Delta 50's after the x-pipe and they are right under my cab and I get nothing but compliments how quiet they are yet still sound like a performance exhaust unless you stand on it. I also have the remote QTC electric cut-outs for fun.. whole system is 3". I do have Dynamat and Dynaliner everywear but the 50's are right under the seat. The system dumps out in front of the rear wheels. I've had the 44's in a corvette and they were horrible and I had the 10's on a 5.4 and it was a trash can.. maybe give the Flow Delta 50's a chance. I will say the are very big and heavy..
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Thanks for the additional input. After checking the many possibilities I've decided to go with the Borla ProXS part 40659. They are more compact than my current Flows and the all stainless construction makes a ton of sense for my climate as well. They do cost a bit more than some (and sometimes a lot less than others I might add) but I only want to do this once and I'm thinking I'll be well satisfied with the outcome. Seems the best bang for the buck in my view.
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send and update after the install. I never heard you lost power with flowmasters like I just read in this set of posts. Shows ya what I know... If there are better products I'd love to learn about them...