FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: 351crules on May 29, 2017, 09:26:43 PM
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any 9 sec street combo's around here?
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Sure, my 69 Mach 1 with 489" supercharged FE ran a best of 9.35 @ 151 and finished second in class at Drag Week in 2007. We drove about 1200 miles that week, not counting 400 miles to and from the event. My 64 Galaxie with 585" naturally aspirated SOHC went 9.50s in 2009 at Drag Week and won the Modified NA class. We only went about 1000 miles that week. And my 69 Shelby clone with the 585" naturally aspirated FE has gone a best of 8.88@150, and won Modified NA at Drag Week in 2015, and second place last year, again with about 1000 street miles mixed in during the week. Oh wait, that's an 8 second street car, not 9 second... ;D
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Sure, my 69 Mach 1 with 489" supercharged FE ran a best of 9.35 @ 151 and finished second in class at Drag Week in 2007. We drove about 1200 miles that week, not counting 400 miles to and from the event. My 64 Galaxie with 585" naturally aspirated SOHC went 9.50s in 2009 at Drag Week and won the Modified NA class. We only went about 1000 miles that week. And my 69 Shelby clone with the 585" naturally aspirated FE has gone a best of 8.88@150, and won Modified NA at Drag Week in 2015, and second place last year, again with about 1000 street miles mixed in during the week. Oh wait, that's an 8 second street car, not 9 second... ;D
very nice...let me rephrase the question a bit... using a med or high riser head..sohc is way way out of the budget ... i ran clevelands for years running mid to low 10's.using ported stock heads and stock stroke... i've since sold to fox body and have a 64 fairlane and like to use a fe in it and would like to at least like to match what i ran..just haven't seen very many combo's go that good even with aftermarket heads and strokers.. is it just the nature of the motor
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:P
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Are you looking to go naturally aspirated, or use a blower or nitrous? Also, how much does your car weigh?
Scott Miller's 68 Cougar ran 9.20s last year at Drag Week, using Edelbrock Pro Port heads done by Blair Patrick. Those are basically medium riser castings. I think Scott's car is about 3200 pounds. Also, my 69 Mach 1 (3600 pounds with me in it) with a naturally aspirated high riser should run about 9.60, although I haven 't had it to the track with the new engine yet. Information on that build is at the link below:
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=168.0
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Are you looking to go naturally aspirated, or use a blower or nitrous? Also, how much does your car weigh? ..
Scott Miller's 68 Cougar ran 9.20s last year at Drag Week, using Edelbrock Pro Port heads done by Blair Patrick. Those are basically medium riser castings. I think Scott's car is about 3200 pounds. Also, my 69 Mach 1 (3600 pounds with me in it) with a naturally aspirated high riser should run about 9.60, although I haven 't had it to the track with the new engine yet. Information on that build is at the link below:
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=168.0
it will have nos..but would like mid 10's n/a.. i assume the car will weigh 3300ish...it's still being put together...aje front end, tubbed rear with moved in leafs..i saw that build...very nice....
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Mid-10s naturally aspirated isn't too tough. My Mach 1 was naturally aspirated in 2005 when it ran 10.60s. This was a 511" engine with a Comp Xtreme energy street roller cam, Victor intake with Dominator carb, Hooker adjustable race headers, and Edelbrock heads that were ported to flow around 340 cfm on the intake. Compression was 11.5:1. The engine made 706 HP at 6400 RPM.
I have a new dyno mule that makes 720 HP, that combination would run mid 10s naturally aspirated in a 3300 pound car, build at this link:
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=4760.0
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Mid-10s naturally aspirated isn't too tough. My Mach 1 was naturally aspirated in 2005 when it ran 10.60s. This was a 511" engine with a Comp Xtreme energy street roller cam, Victor intake with Dominator carb, Hooker adjustable race headers, and Edelbrock heads that were ported to flow around 340 cfm on the intake. Compression was 11.5:1. The engine made 706 HP at 6400 RPM.
I have a new dyno mule that makes 720 HP, that combination would run mid 10s naturally aspirated in a 3300 pound car, build at this link:
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=4760.0
help me out here...700hp should be 9's all day long...are these old fords that inefficient as a drag car?
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No, but they can be heavy. You'd think a Mustang would be a light car, but my Mach 1 is 3600 pounds. Also I'm quoting dyno horsepower, not rear wheel horsepower. Figure 15%-18% loss in the driveline.
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No, but they can be heavy. You'd think a Mustang would be a light car, but my Mach 1 is 3600 pounds. Also I'm quoting dyno horsepower, not rear wheel horsepower. Figure 15%-18% loss in the driveline.
Heck, newer Mustangs are even heavier than the old ones! You'd think with all that plastic, they'd be light...but you'd be wrong ::)
NOT trying to start any debate on dyno numbers, but most dyno numbers are "corrected" numbers, and actual horsepower with humidity and typically higher underhood air temps would also subtract from that number. Altogether, add air filters, power steering, driveline, humidity, air temps etc, and that number can be significantly lower than what a person sees in a controlled environment.
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I guess a lot depends on how one defines streetable. I have never driven my 78 Fairmont on the street since I finished it 30 years ago, but it has gone high 9`s, naturally aspirated with very little aftermaket equipment, no roller cam, no aftermarket stroker kit, no aftermarket heads etc. .030" over 427 Ford block, with cast 428 crank, solid flat tappet cam,stock unported cast iron CJ heads (with original 2.09"/1.66" valves), a 780 vacuum secondary Holley on a 50 year old Ford dual plane intake, a Duraspark distributor from a 76 F250. Lighter than most at 3100 lbs, with a 4 speed trans. Best of 9.97@132mph, shifting at 6200 RPM. If that too "fancy" the same car with a .030" 428 block, stock cast 428 crank, stock 3/8" rods, same flat tappet cam, intake & carb ran best of 10.03@132 MPH, also shifting at 6200 RPM. The 428 made 518 HP, the 427 a little under 550HP, I guess a fairly well sorted car helps to run OK without a big wallet or a bunch of aftermarket parts. Since my Fairmont only has a roll bar, it is only NHRA legal to run 10.00 ETs or slower, and I am still undecided if I want to make all the changes to make it 9 second compliant, I dropped in my flat top pistoned, pump gas, flat tappet cam 331 SB Ford, which made only 487 HP on the same dyno. Last Sat & Sunday, in 90 degree heat, it was running mid 10.2s @ 128MPH. Big HP numbers are nice, but i will take a well sorted out car with moderate power anyday. JMO
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Heck, newer Mustangs are even heavier than the old ones! You'd think with all that plastic, they'd be light...but you'd be wrong ::)
NOT trying to start any debate on dyno numbers, but most dyno numbers are "corrected" numbers, and actual horsepower with humidity and typically higher underhood air temps would also subtract from that number. Altogether, add air filters, power steering, driveline, humidity, air temps etc, and that number can be significantly lower than what a person sees in a controlled environment.
Thats very true on the dyno numbers, they are typically corrected to a sea level barometric pressure, and an inlet air temp of 60 degrees Fahrenheit. As an example, my new dyno mule makes 720 HP corrected, but the correction factor is 6.1%, so the raw horsepower is more like 680.
But I think weight is a big deal also, given that it is not unusual to see a Fox body Mustang weigh under 3000 pounds with a big block and the driver. That's 80% of what my Mach 1 weighs, and that car would have run 9s in 2005 if it weighed only 3000 pounds...
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My 302 Falcon runs 8s. In the 1/8 mile 8)
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Pretty much any of Jay's 500+ CID FE's in a ready-to-run 1,700 lb. Super Gas dragster chassis would be in the 7.75- 7.99 category. 8)
Depends a lot on vehicle weight, for sure!
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Look here under drag strip results. 64 falcon tube frame car. Clints car has a 482 that runs 9.60 leaving on a foot brake, c6 trans. Idles at 900 never, overheats, very streetable. Way more in it with a few different parts.
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But I think weight is a big deal also, given that it is not unusual to see a Fox body Mustang weigh under 3000 pounds with a big block and the driver. That's 80% of what my Mach 1 weighs, and that car would have run 9s in 2005 if it weighed only 3000 pounds...
Absolutely, weight is a huge factor. If I remember correctly, I think the rule of thumb is for every 100 lbs, it equals .10 ET? I was just commenting about the newer cars vs. older ones. For instance, my car is currently 3460, and that's heavy for a Mustang (no roll bar). My 2009 GT is about 3600, stock. A NEW Mustang with IRS comes in at over 3800 lbs!
Shedding weight is probably the cheapest way to gain ET, unless you're buying fiberglass panels.
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I think Scott went 9.10 last drag week, and it's actually an 8-second car if they can hook it with the transbrake, but it sounds like you are describing a less complicated scenario. The 502 incher that Scott Miller runs is a pretty serious piece. It did two Drag Weeks without a freshen up, but still might be a little far out for a "driver". I do also have several " 9 second" combos in service that you could drive to the grocery store. One example I use often is in a 3400 lb. T-Bolt clone.... Cal Tracs, 275 drag radials, C4, 496 cubes...9.60's @ 135, with no power adder. A much less complicated build, with lower budget, but durable pieces....so yes, 9-second street FEs are no problem these days, with the right stuff.
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And in about 3 months we will see if a very streetable 8 second car is possible
Big inch Blair Patrick FE with twin turbo's and EFI
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i know the big inch FEs will do it but can you get a 390 or 428 in the nines without power adders on a 3000 pound car
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I guess a lot depends on how one defines streetable. I have never driven my 78 Fairmont on the street since I finished it 30 years ago, but it has gone high 9`s, naturally aspirated with very little aftermaket equipment, no roller cam, no aftermarket stroker kit, no aftermarket heads etc. .030" over 427 Ford block, with cast 428 crank, solid flat tappet cam,stock unported cast iron CJ heads (with original 2.09"/1.66" valves), a 780 vacuum secondary Holley on a 50 year old Ford dual plane intake, a Duraspark distributor from a 76 F250. Lighter than most at 3100 lbs, with a 4 speed trans. Best of 9.97@132mph, shifting at 6200 RPM. If that too "fancy" the same car with a .030" 428 block, stock cast 428 crank, stock 3/8" rods, same flat tappet cam, intake & carb ran best of 10.03@132 MPH, also shifting at 6200 RPM. The 428 made 518 HP, the 427 a little under 550HP, I guess a fairly well sorted car helps to run OK without a big wallet or a bunch of aftermarket parts. Since my Fairmont only has a roll bar, it is only NHRA legal to run 10.00 ETs or slower, and I am still undecided if I want to make all the changes to make it 9 second compliant, I dropped in my flat top pistoned, pump gas, flat tappet cam 331 SB Ford, which made only 487 HP on the same dyno. Last Sat & Sunday, in 90 degree heat, it was running mid 10.2s @ 128MPH. Big HP numbers are nice, but i will take a well sorted out car with moderate power anyday. JMO
this is kinda a what I was looking for... Care to share the cam specs?
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Look here under drag strip results. 64 falcon tube frame car. Clints car has a 482 that runs 9.60 leaving on a foot brake, c6 trans. Idles at 900 never, overheats, very streetable. Way more in it with a few different parts.
Can you please possibly give me a link for clint's car because I am in the process of doing the exact same thing. I need to know what headers he used and motor mounts etc. Anything would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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i know the big inch FEs will do it but can you get a 390 or 428 in the nines without power adders on a 3000 pound car
Yes. We can get 390 legal Stockers to go 10.30 at 3000 lbs with a .481 lift camshaft, so with no rules, 9's are no problem....but.....the car would have to be very good, not just the engine......
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James, the info on clints falcon in on this forum in the drag strip results for fe vehicles. I'm pretty computer illiterate so maybe another member can add the link. The headers and motor mounts were custom made for the car.
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And in about 3 months we will see if a very streetable 8 second car is possible
Big inch Blair Patrick FE with twin turbo's and EFI
:o :o
Not to derail this thread, but....THIS would be interesting to hear more about! (but in another thread when the time comes)
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i know the big inch FEs will do it but can you get a 390 or 428 in the nines without power adders on a 3000 pound car
Yes. We can get 390 legal Stockers to go 10.30 at 3000 lbs with a .481 lift camshaft, so with no rules, 9's are no problem....but.....the car would have to be very good, not just the engine......
Key notation. Running an automatic in a bracket car, I can assure you that the converter can be worth 1/2 second or better in many cases. And that's just one item. Suspension reaction, shocks, tires, gearing, HP/Torque curves, launch RPM, track condition, moon phase, track burger seasoning, etc all contribute to ET or lack there of. Look at it this way, work backwards from your ET request - it'll take around 600 HP at the rear tires to put a 3000lb race weight (driver, fuel, etc) in the 9 second range under near optimum conditions. That's over 135 MPH in 1/4 mile at least. So you're looking for 750~800 HP at the motor more or less. Reduce the weight, less power required to run the MPH goal. The 351C in my dragster makes maybe 550 HP, but since the car is light (unknown weight at this time - 1800 or so probably) it should run right in the top of the 8s in the 1/4. Runs 5.6x @124 1/8, put it in my Falcon at 3250 lbs maybe 6.60s @ 100 or so. To complicate your considerations, tests show that reducing rotating mass is as much as 5 times more effective in freeing up power than removing static mass.
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i understand the car needs to be set up right for a small inch fe to perform.i guess the original question meant in a well set up car.i guess a better question is how much power can you get out of a 390
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i understand the car needs to be set up right for a small inch fe to perform.i guess the original question meant in a well set up car.i guess a better question is how much power can you get out of a 390
Depends on how far you want to go....750 hp not out of the question, but certainly not "street-able".
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i understand the car needs to be set up right for a small inch fe to perform.i guess the original question meant in a well set up car.i guess a better question is how much power can you get out of a 390
Depends on how far you want to go....750 hp not out of the question, but certainly not "street-able".
where is the street-able cut off at 600,650?
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And in about 3 months we will see if a very streetable 8 second car is possible
Big inch Blair Patrick FE with twin turbo's and EFI
:o :o
Not to derail this thread, but....THIS would be interesting to hear more about! (but in another thread when the time comes)
Doug look at my thread http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=4285.0
It has a Dyno sheet of the engine with a carb on it NO turbos at 9 to 1 and using 93 octane
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Making 1.27 pounds of torque per cubic inch from a large displacement, 9:1 compression, hydraulic roller FE with minimal tuning is indeed a very impressive number.
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i understand the car needs to be set up right for a small inch fe to perform.i guess the original question meant in a well set up car.i guess a better question is how much power can you get out of a 390
Depends on how far you want to go....750 hp not out of the question, but certainly not "street-able".
where is the street-able cut off at 600,650?
Well, that's up to you. I run 4.56 gears, 28" drag radials and a 4000+ stall converter with license plates. After we recover from the dragster build, I'd like to do a big inch 11:1 solid roller 393 or 408C with a tunnel ram that needs a mix of 110 race and pump gas. With license plates. I don't have a problem with rupp-rupp, no AC, no heat, climb in over the roll cage, wait-until-its-160F-before-you-drive-it, stop every 15~20 miles to cool the trans, 55 MPH max on the highway, etc. Others may want to hear the radio.
You know that there are licensed,tagged "street cars" that run in the 6's making near 3000 HP. So there isn't any "streetable cutoff" IMO. It's what's in your wallet and how much you are willing to do to run it down the road.
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e question, but certainly not "street-able".
Well, that's up to you. I run 4.56 gears, 28" drag radials and a 4000+ stall converter with license plates. After we recover from the dragster build, I'd like to do a big inch 11:1 solid roller 393 or 408C with a tunnel ram that needs a mix of 110 race and pump gas. With license plates. I don't have a problem with rupp-rupp, no AC, no heat, climb in over the roll cage, wait-until-its-160F-before-you-drive-it, stop every 15~20 miles to cool the trans, 55 MPH max on the highway, etc. Others may want to hear the radio.
You know that there are licensed,tagged "street cars" that run in the 6's making near 3000 HP. So there isn't any "streetable cutoff" IMO. It's what's in your wallet and how much you are willing to do to run it down the road.
+1 on all that. There is no "streetable" horsepower cutoff in my opinion. My Galaxie with the big SOHC ran down the road at 65 MPH for hours with no problem, idled at 800 RPM, no cooling issues, no driveability issues, etc. The only thing was that I would not run it on pump gas at the track, put in race fuel there. Power adders make it even easier...
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i run 4.11 gears 27 inch slicks every day on the street every where i go.but i guess streetable hp has a wide range depending on the person, i guess i was talking about limits of a everyday driver,dependable,long lasting,not what different people are willing to go down the road in.
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There are definitely power producing items on an all-out drag race piece that will not drive daily, or even 1200 road miles on a freshen up.....I lean toward using a fairly mild cam on the Drag Week stuff for the extra reliability......you just have to design the head for it.
I have come to enjoy the concept of building "all you can get" for daily use....and I mean DAILY use. It is a fun challenge to make reliable, long term power for a driver......
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I have come to enjoy the concept of building "all you can get" for daily use....and I mean DAILY use. It is a fun challenge to make reliable, long term power for a driver......
thats what im talking about
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That's a difference for me. I have a snooty hot rod at my disposal. It could be snootier. But for a daily, I want it to just start and run. No BS, got no time for that. Get out of the driveway and get to work. Heated seats and room in the trunk. I don't intend to carry groceries stacked around the fuel cell. 8)
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The fact that Scott Miller went 2 years on his Drag Week engine, running in the very low 9's, says something about Blairs' ability to get longevity out of your not-so-average "street car". And he may be correct in saying that it's a bit "out there" for a daily driver, but that is over 2000 miles, and when you do half of that in ONE week, that is not to be taken lightly! It's not like running to the grocery store, or out to dinner. We're talking 200-300 miles a DAY of mostly highway and interstate driving, while still being able to cope in bumper to bumper traffic.
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You guys are making me jealous with this talk of 650hp cars running 9's. My 463 stroker makes 650hp, I was at track last weekend, and ran low 13's! Granted I live at 7500 feet above sea level and race at 6200 in a 67 galaxie tipping the scales at 4020 with me in It! I guess I need to move eh? :o
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Pulled from here to Hobbs once to run in 7500' DA, never pulled so far to go so slow. :lol: Come run that 463 down at the Motorplex and your car may flip over backwards.