FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: 427HISS on June 28, 2016, 08:29:16 PM
-
A guy told me that there strongr than Scats ect. And is much wanted.
Is that true ?
-
Scat has cast cranks and steel cranks. If I recall, the $ cranks were not 4340 steel like today's steel cranks....plus they have 45 years of being raw dogged on them.
Scats cast stuff will see 650-700 hp so that may be a toss up compared to a factory $ crank, but IMO the Scat steel crank will be superior by far.
-
HI
The SCAT cranks are all steel, the basic crank is cast steel, cast off shore with SCATS people on the ground to watch the quality and process. They are delivered here to Torrance, CA, where SCAT does all of the excellent machine work here. It is cast off shore, largely to get around hyper strict EPA regs. It is 'made', turned, drilled,tapped, ground, heat treated sometimes, and all the rest, in the USA
SCAT pays Federal income tax and supports our hard working men and women. Those who then sell SCAT cranks pay state and local taxes to support our communities, kids, cops and so on, seniors
Yes, the cast cranks do well up to the power level stated, but FORD spent a lot of time racing and testing the original cranks and this is a fact. You question is a bit vague. maybe think cast FORD, iron, forged steel, FORD, new style cast steel, forged steel, then billet?
real fast FE's in competition often have a nice billet that will last many seasons and that is rebuildable, weldable, fully counterweighted and tough to over 1,000 HP. A billet can also be lightened which can show up on your time slip
A cast steel crank, as you push a FE car in to the 10s and 9s, and wind her high, does tend to bend the cast crank by the end f the season. Henry VELASCO will explain how many he tries to straighten, and why he has made true billet cranks for decades. To race. CROWER was an FORD Race team supplier and you won't find a better crank. Later, SONNY Bryant began making true billet cranks for FE's too.
So many fast FE owners just upgrade to start the program. Remember, a used Bryant,Crower or other true billet, sells for a nice chunk of change if you part out the mill, or sell it assembled. Not easy to find a nice, clean, barely used billet FE crank, or lightly used Carillo/Crower rods because they live great, are pretty bullet proof and highly desired. Money in, money out. You park money in quality parts. They retain value/
MOLDEX supplied billet cranks to many teams in and around Detroit and to FORD
A forged FORD crank has 3 basic designs
The original SOHC forging, has press in plugs in the rod throws
The factory manual, FOrd, Holman, us, and many racers, pulled the circlips then the plugs, after every race because we freshened the engines after every major race. FORD suggested thet you lay the whole crank, with the plugs removed, in the big solvent tanks we had to soak. Then you pre cleaned them
Then we magna-fluxed them. What is cool is, you can look for cracks, outside, and inside the rod journals. We made, then Ed Pnk made, press in aluminum plugs for these cranks, to replace the steel cup plugs
Next, FORD made life easier and tapped these holes for a pipe plug, on a tapered thread. You could remove them faster, and, the entire plug, given it's thickness, and depth, added strength in sheer, in torsion, in compression and was a better system
The SK forged crank was the best for us. These were a special forging, from better dies, with better alloy, and the wider rods. The SK cranks were used in NASCAR, DRAGS, BOATS,TOP FUEL, INJECTED FUEL
Blown gas, and just with carbs. Deal there is full, heat soaked, induction hardening. They are darker looking. If you tap on one, they ring a higher, clearer note. They are beefy, heavier and bitchin
What was common was, you turned the rod journals down about 062, to run the 392 Dodge rod bearing. This is a wider rod, and bearing. A leMans rod is 875 wide, +- The 392 rod is 1.000 wide +- ...The FORD SK rods, are 1.000 += A wider rod is stronger at high RPM
Many many guys here used many many of these parts. Pictures are somewhere out there
We have them all if you don't get the data from the cool guys here
Maybe some time I can provide some pictures,,,,busy busy
The SK crank yawned at 1500 HP on Nitro. So, most of them got used up in the 60s and 70s
We made true billet cranks in house.
SCAT has Billets, so how fast do you need to go
What is so cool is that SCAT and a few others, can hand you a nice, cast steel stroker for a great value.
What is also cool is, a lot of guys shelved the Forged FORD cranks at 20-20 under. Today, KING bearing and others give you more rebuilds with 20-30-40 under inserts
John V has a lot of nice old FE original parts for sale, so do the engine guys here, they have stock, and sources, many do.
A decent FORD forged steel crank fetched about 1.000 to a retail customer
If you make good friends, and find a collector willing to kind of help your build....a 427 crank, well
I got one recently for 100, but, I trade them back tuning and dial in favors, discounts, etc
When we selected a CROWER Billet, and they a jewels, we selected Carillo rods to match
Carillo rods are top shelf,,,,Crower, Bryant, Carillo sell millions of bucks worth of world class made in America race parts to NASCAR and other teams every year.
Hope this helps a little amigo
I think you are the NOS block fan, so maybe blend in True Ford pieces if old school is the goal
If not, it is cool that the offshore blocks, heads and cranks yield a 21st century FE with many state of the art design features. If you like the modernized path, you are lucky to have many choices
Again, if you do a period appropriate COBRA? remember, when you pop the hood, you see painted iron heads on a FORD iron block, the old style intake, covers, distributor, and old style Holley, none of the new billet carbs, old covers, and old pan, etc...
The new parts have a great Horsepower/dollar ratio
What makes me smile is true, a racer who wanted a true billet crank bad enough, and who was a decent machinist, and who was around a place like Detroit, or Cal in the 60s, and many other places,well,,,more than one broke racer, could invest hundreds of hours to patiently hand crank out their own billet crank. It could be a long road, but with a rotary table, and a dead center, a large lathe, a big horizontal and vertical mill, some fixtures you make from a FORD steel sample, and so on, more than a few good engine prototype machinists we knew, and our place, made 4340 cranks that were a labor of love. Kind of cool to take a big heavy piece of SAE grade high tensile steel, and make a drum of chips, to yield a 5o some odd pound crank...
Last thing we had was blanks, FORD sent us raw forgings to finish in many strokes. The snout and mains were turned in Detroit, and we could set the stroke, journal size and so on
The Rat Rod is a great size for a crank with out hollow crank pins. The FORD crank had the lighter, hollow rod throws for a reason.
Gotta go amigo....now you have all you need to have a blast and go plenty fast. Source your parts from the cool guys here.
And on your block, remember, we selected the best finished ones, because many need a few dimensions corrected due to production variations. We squared many, sized the main saddles, and so on. Many were very close to perfect, some need a massage. Check yours with a skilled FE specialist who has the special tools and knowledge if you sweat the details
Good luck
Maybe email your engine guys here so they can let their hair down and help you
But if you use a talented guys mind, talent and time, do business with him to say thanks
Many here feed their kids with their skills, so I send them as many leads as I can, many do
It hurts the FE specialists to take their knowledge, over time, then go around them to get some special at a huge online Speed Parts vendor...
Finally, we all get WD or better deals from the manufacturers. Buying from a FE specialist can be a win win for you, and him/her and their family.
Getting a bitchin build sheet from a pro is worth compensating him for it to some extent, well, to us.
-
A decade or two back when Hot Rod Magazine did one of their shocking facts on Top/Fuel motors they mentioned grinding the cams 0,5,10,15 degrees different at the journals so that the cam would match up under full power to the wound up/twisted crank under full load... Back then they were only making 5,000HP.
-
xxx
-
I agree ! :)
-
Apparently, someone didn't get the memo :o
-
Uh oh here we go again. Funny how history repeats itself.
-
xxx
-
I have a big orange bridge I'll sell you, while you're voting for Hillary :o
-
xxx
-
What?? This dude is cool! If I'm wrong about that, maybe I don't want to be right.
Then I think you don't want to be right... I sent you a personal message that you may or may have not seen. As much as I'd like to comment more here, this Forum isn't the place and I respect the owners desire to keep it civil.
-
:)
-
As much as I'd like to comment more here, this Forum isn't the place and I respect the owners desire to keep it civil.
Thank-you! ;D
-
:-X
-
So I wondered? You posted a general question, quoting, 'a guys' opinion. And you have a lot of fast FE guys here who's opinion you can find in the search box.
What crank will you go for and why?
I wanted to clarify a little that the term 'cast' crank is usually used to describe the plentiful cast iron units, The FORD cast crank is a lot stronger than many believe for certain builds.
Today, you have cast iron, NOS style, and cast steel, often from China. So the added choice is nice.
I am one of many who have to say some nice things about FORD's ability to design and build a great iron crank. A lot of pump gas FE's can do fine with a iron crank. We raced them for FORD and had no failures.
Cast FORD cranks won in off shore racing, off road many many times, won Championships, year after year, and have better 'lubricity' or oil retention ability for many street or hot street engines. They can retain and sweat oil molecules and run smooth in many start stop settings, our FORD Engineers lectured, so, the crank can do well for many
A 390, stock, or close to stock, maintained well, oil, filter, tune up, and run within it's design parameters? In a car, Mustang, Ranchero, Truck,,,,they earned a real good reputation for going and going. We rebuild so many, at around 100,000 miles, with little wear on that cast crank, or the bores. If you beat them to death, different deal of course
A whole bunch of Drag Team 428s did great with a cast iron crank too. We built a lot of Drag Team 428 based cars at Stroppe. or serviced the engines. For a good decade after, these same cars and owners, or successors, brought us the FE's to freshen up. None needed a special billet steel crank
The 428s we raced and did fine with that became a blown FE? Say for a Boat? A Rail? A sand drag car? a Super fast door car? Those got a Billet.....
We did get to use the very rare forged steel FORD 428 cranks for the top builds, they came in rough machines, mains turned and ground, we finished the rod journals. We got a few blanks. These were so rare, and raced from day one, few survived. The last 2 we found were 40-40, one was 40-50 if I recall(Ground 3-4-5 times, ie, super used up)....and both were cracked
More cast FORD cranks whipped Chevys and DeSotos too. We raced NASCAR,,,,,and did real well, using a Dry Sump, and a trick or two, to make around 600 hp, wide open mostly, for a 500 mile race. Ford Racing did not rush to provide us forged steel cranks for the BOSS 351's. You had to spend a bunch of money, around 1500 in 1970-71, 72 dollars(Maybe 6,000 today?) for a billet
A nitride cast nodular crank, like a Boss 351,,,,is a nice piece
So, many kept it short here, maybe they can add their experience with a FE Forged unit
Just trying to close the loop with relevant engineering info.
Do you plan on a Chinese crank, finished in Torrance, CA.? Or a FORD unit? Or maybe save and get a true race crank?Crower, Sonny Bryant or Velasco? Velasco makes a real pretty line of billet FE cranks
Scat has a forging, call them.....again, you get 2 choices,,,,rat rods, or FE rods
We preferred the 392 for 1,000 HP and up more or less...
But people forget.....for the winning FE's in NASCAR,,,,the SK Crank and wider SK rods were needed to win and win.
Many still really like the crank pin size, too bad they did not make more
SK cranks were so good, we raced them to death, one by one....usually SuperCharged
To Dale, hope all is well, it is always good to answer the questions posted, and cite your examples, experiences, opinions and what you have seen or done. The question here is FORD vs other cranks.
How many have you run and what do you suggest? And why?
A tech forum is a great place to focus on power, fast builds, reliable work and results,,,,or methods. Many have zero time for bickering, personal attacks, and all of that nonsense. May we please focus on engineering, power, winning, or building nice Fords? Email me anything else, away from here. Give me time to reply sir.
Kudos to JAY for having a fast place to work, share, learn, meet,greet, buy/sell and have a nice time.
Happy Sunday and Happy 4th to all
Have 3 videos of a 3,000 HP FE for soon
-
A decade or two back when Hot Rod Magazine did one of their shocking facts on Top/Fuel motors they mentioned grinding the cams 0,5,10,15 degrees different at the journals so that the cam would match up under full power to the wound up/twisted crank under full load... Back then they were only making 5,000HP.
Happy 4th weekend to all of the Floridian FORD folks. Hope all is well Robert,
The solution was a larger diameter cam core. In Fuel hard parts, often, if breakage or over cycling is causing less than optimal power or reliability, Crew Chiefs and Block/engine makers meet, exchange ideas and make modifications.
Excess torsional vibration, in this case, twist, a larger or tougher part often comes forward
A relevant FE example would be JAY double pinning his stub cam to insure reliability for his specific build. Added race load caused a design revision, more or less. Better heads and a lot of lift creates a load, so do the required longer /stiffer springs, so a weak point can rear it's ugly head. Doubling the sheer strength in his case, and more, is the logic solution.
Often it seems, too much flex, yields a tougher material, in a bigger size
So check in to the evolution of, say, a KB 1 through a KB 10, then the AJPE (Alan Johnson) parts, and the VENOLIA Joe Pisano JP! JP stands for Joe Pisano
Pisano flew at LIONS DRAG STRIP where many of us grew up. His protégé and Driver, Dale Pulde, just helped Dan Horan Jr set a Mile per hour record at the last Nostalgia event. Over 270 MPH from a 426 Chrysler,,with only a 6-71 and only a 18 gallon pump
We all fixed the cam twist issues
HOWARD Cams, Donny Johansen, made hundred of billet cores for many main Nitro Cam folks, like ENGLE....and others
On twist, here is the latest for you cats
The front pulley, drives the huge blower, over 10,000. The keys were sheering a lot, but the vibration was welding the crank pulleys to the crank snout
Imagine the brute force needed, for these 2 parts to friction weld a little
Solution? Top teams have splines there now....
Imagine stripping and rebuilding the engine, make a pass, come back, crank pulley stuck, lift in a new short block? To just 'answer' (Make the next round)
Whole lotta shakin goin' on.......
Der Andy
Last example from Don Long, the legendary Dragster engineer, builder and designer. Recall, the fast cars of the 50s and 60s ran a 55 OLDS rear end,,,,,until they could no longer take the beating.
A guys asked him, at a meeting we had about a resto....the Super Snake...'Don, why did you guys stop using the 55 OLDS or PONTIAC rear ends"
Don says' ''Because they were breaking and people were getting hurt''
Quoting Don again recently...'We went to a 8 3/4'' Chrysler like typical Drag racers,,,they are bigger''. He is very quick to add..'In racing, bigger is not always better''. '"In this case, it was'
Hope this helps you BB, or pals elsewhere
Also, thanks for all of the nice emails.
-
Tom, you said something that caught my attention. You mentioned King bearing had 20, 30 and 40 under bearings that allowed further use of the Nascar crank? Did I read that right and are they still available? Because I dropped of a Nascar crank and rods at my machine shop awhile back that was already at .020 by quick measurements and was trying to figure out the best option.
-
Hello Gregwill
Email me if you wish, have we met? Not sure, meet so many nice people online.
King makes mains 20-30-40 under, on the SK crank? std FORD and the plus 0004
The old REDS and BLUES game.
I got ahold of KINGS head guy, through FORD connections. I asked him, why dont you make us some -010-020 SK NASCAR crank bearings please, please, pretty please? You know? One batch, or run, might supply guys for 20 years out here in FE land?
Answer was? We can do you 500 sets.>>>LOL !! 500 sets if I recall....a huge run...
Nobody is going to park that kind of money
So my suggestion is.......
Sell me the crank and I will put it in a blown car..hahaha They are very rare
What we did then and now is?
Turn the rods to 392 Chrysler size and buy rods,,,,
But don't hand a super rare crank to a guy who never did this, I would n't
Get it to a guy who has done hundreds, I send my SK cranks to HENRY VELASCO because he has ground so many SK cranks for blown use.
A real good custom crank co can do it,so consider this. You want the guy to get the radious and cheeks correct
OK? You dress the wheel special. And you usually use a race crank grinder that has the bigger radius already set, since it does race cranks, not street rebuilds
Get the rods first to measure the width
Pair the rods and measure 2 at a time. If they all are the same, great. If not, we clamp then in a surface grinder, to match them all perfect, all equal. THEN, tell the crank man your width. Then, you get the side clearance nice
For the new guys, if you use a 392 rod, if it makes more than, say, 400 HP, maybe 350, stay away from a stock Dodge 392 rod. We all had to 'box' them back when. I still use some boxed rods for rebuilds to be period correct. Bones Balough just did a blown 392 with old school boxed rods...LOL
Choose a H beam, from a good vendor,,,CROWER and CARILLO are world class
Old Scat may have an import for you
Now there is a big trick to using a 392 rod. I never hear anybody mention it. Use the trick, and win. Don't do the trick, and 'There she blows' in a race setting
how about we let another member, who runs a 92 size rod chime in
Who wants to explain the 392 rod trick for use on a SK crank?
Maybe Dale or Doug can do this for us, or West Coast maybe?
Email any time
So, I have an FE on the stand, gotta work please
392 rod size is strong. Rat size gets too close to the oil holes and lightening holes for may of us
Street gas? probably ok
Last quick thing is important to me and my old pals. FORD spent millions racing FE's and sponsoring teams. We tried many things and learned by racing and winning, or not. All of the tricks my mentors there were kind enough to pass along, and share, and hand down, helped a lot of fast FORD for years to come. If me and my pals can remember some of it, get it on the web, say thanks, and send an idea along, great. I just seems wholly illogical and shameful maybe, to let some of the tricks fade away or be forgotten. If you remember some of what FORD raced with and did, the next guys, and maybe the next, might not have to blow up a bunch of parts, and waste a bunch of money, re learning what some older guys learned decades ago. Thus, we decided to share some things a while back. Many many other guys around can do the very same thing. Hope they do.
Our good pal Art Crisman was one of the few guys left who really knew his way around a flathead. He worked for us too, at Stroppes. A while back, 2 Brits, paid him close to 100,000 to spend months, teaching them a lot of Flathead tricks and do a how to book. He set them up to do nice flatheads for any Hot Rodder, on gas, good, or pump. He got them the special tools too, tappet wrenches, seat cutters, many of us still have them. Some day the FE guys from the 1st or 2nd generation will pull the chutes too. Done, rest well. My pals from HMS kind of want whatever we can share to help. Never trying to harm, never really. If what some of us did, simply get's you thinking, to do much much better than we did, wonderful. All of us are exceedingly proud of each and every FE builder who raises the bar, again and again
Next topic
By the way,,,to 427 HISS who has many design questions, hope we all helped? May we please see your COBRA minus engine? What type? How finished is she?
I agree with the Cool cat who said, slide a 390 in her for now and go have a blast, while saving for the main engine. That is smart, we also do that to have fun while making the next step up the power level.
A stout 390, with good heads,in a light Cobra? They can RIP.....remember,,,a 289 COBRA RIPPED(Fast) So go build a nice, NASCAR style, soild cam, high winding 390 for that COBRA, have fun? \
You need to really learn to drive a COBRA. You have to spend time to really get a feel for one, and make the most of it. Slightly less power is a good way to build up to 600 ponies. I would also see if a nice clean 428 core is out there.
Good luck
-
Who wants to explain the 392 rod trick for use on a SK crank?
Maybe Dale or Doug can do this for us, or West Coast maybe?
Sorry, Tom. I know nothing about the 392 trick. I've never ran an SK crank and don't plan to when there are much better options.
Just out of curiosity, how old are you and when did you start to work for HMS? I'm sure others would like to know your history with them as well.
-
I've had to delete a couple of messages on this thread, which I really hate to do. Let's not post messages that are prone to starting arguments, and let's all be adults and not respond to that kind of provocation if you think it exists. Thanks, Jay
-
thanks , Jay
-
Thank you ! :)
-
Yup.. thanks Jay. :-X
-
Hopefully, my 2 legitimate questions aren't construed as trying to start an argument. I am genuinely interested in the answers, as I'm sure others are.
I'm not sure, however, why the conversation always turns to blown nitro cammers. I don't think the OP is planning on this sort of thing, or anybody else here for that matter. Using the NASCAR crank is just a bad idea for any type of street or typical drag scene. Heavy hard-to-find rods, non-existent bearing suppliers are 2 major reasons why. You can find the occasional set of bearings on Ebay, but if the crank ever needs turned or even dressed, it's done.
-
I agree with Doug on the crank issue. Stock Ford is about as good as anyone will need and there are plenty of nice aftermarket choices that are reasonably priced without getting into something exotic and more expensive than the rest of the build combined.
As for your legitimate questions...... no comment at this time but nice try.
-
Hey, that topic ran off for a bit, now it's back. :)
I can tell you what's I've seen with my 351Cs. All the stockers are cast, I have never bothered to source one of the "CJ" units with the Brinell test, etc. I have spun them to 7000 using light pistons and to 6500 a LOT with old heavy TRWs and stock rods. The last real blow up was a lot exhaust valve head - took out the block, one head, bent two rods and trashed two pistons. Engine was a little north of 3 grand after the hole appeared in the cylinder wall the motor stopped instantly. Put the crank on support blocks and it checked .0005 TIR. Gave it a buff and it's gone at least 3000 more passes in the Wife's Mustang. 6500 twice per pass.
I'm going to be building a motor for the dragster, not afraid to use a cast Scat part. I'll be under 600Hp anyway, so on a 351C the block will go long before a crank, assuming there's no built in fault.
-
I agree as well guys but I got mine in a package deal and I love to find uses for old Ford parts. He let on like he knew of a reasonable option that I didn't know about but apparently not.
-
Here's a real down side to "real Ford parts". They are getting a bit scarce. I was - was - building a stock stroke 351C for the dragster. Good 10/10 stock crank, stock rods with polished beams, light Probe pistons. My screwup, did not add up all the numbers before dropping $$$ on crank balance, rod work, etc. So now we come to assembly and the crank is .001 too large on the rod journals. Nobody here has the equipment to remove .001 from a crank and keep the journals round. I have some high level contacts - such that a call was made to Calles. Even they could not work that on their high end equipment. SO - now do I spend ANOTHER $300 plus on the stock crank to go .020 on the rods and a whole new set of bearings? Or go aftermarket and start over. The election is to scrap this stock junk and get on with new stuff.
Case #2 - old 351C, internal balance, stock stroke, H beams, etc, etc. Crank loses the thrust surface, second racing season. So now - go spend ANOTHER $800~1000 on a stocker that I need to dig up used, or from now on use a kit such that if there is a problem with the crank I can call someone and just order another. Plus get more displacement out of the kit.
-
Despite what has been mentioned here, those NASCAR crank bearings are just about unobtanium. Even 25 years ago they were a bear to find, when my friend Tim had that setup in his '67 Shelby. He ended up getting the LeMans rods machined with new tangs to run standard-width bearings, which kind of defeats the purpose!
The engine ran fine, but why deal with all that extra weight when the new stuff is SO much better? Reciprocating mass is a huge factor in stressing the block at high RPM, so you're way better off going as light as possible when shooting for livable HP.
-
On the Reds and Blues, it took me a year of running an ad to find some, but there is a supply I can help you with. I gave around 250.
For guys who don't know, the rod bearings came in std, and plus 0004.....or 4 tenths. That was the wear limit, then you slid in a new crank and rods.
We were very fussy about counting the number of races and hours or passes parts made. It all went on the build sheet, and the tear down sheets. A tear down analysis can be crucial to reliability. That includes break away torque values for the intake, crank, rods, and more
We relied on the Snap On Dial a meters. I still use mine.
If you missed those, they were Snap Ons Best in the 50s and 60s. They read the torque in pounds on a big Dial
If you need SK bearings email me.
And to the new guys, listen to Mr Conley, I(we) do, he is a genius who simulates valvetrain dynamics with his own spin tron. I have enjoyed every post he has ever done. He is a credit to the FORD family and a stand up bitchin' dude.
-
Thanks to 427 H and Greg and other friends for the nice emails. Yes, we can set a time and talk. Email me a good time, the time change and let's 'con fab'.
The last 4 days I worked about 50 hours. We have 2 Fuel cars getting ready for 'a record run'. Like the old song, some times you are lucky enough to maybe have a shot at a record. More later.
I have an FE on the stand that some Chevy guy built wrong.....for a new thread.....2 pistons in backward !
You guys GOTTA see the videos of the Super Snake, my word, at 10 PM at night the flames rising up to heaven, so very very high ..it.was simply mesmerizing. They put you right back to the Finals in the 60s. The sound was just...beyond bitchin'. You can see the zoomies light one by one.....only a FORD blasts flames like that due to the firing order. We woke the dead
I have watched it over and over, because I know friends upstairs were smiling down..
I don't have the publicity rights and need help compressing these samples. My chick is on strike so maybe some cool cat can lend a hand some day.
That car runs Flucking Fierce man......just capable of 'turnin' the earth'.
OK....you guys are all great.
And as always, JAY, thanks for having such a productive work place, and a place many write me to say,,,quoting...'Jays is where the fast guys hang out'. Not my words, theirs,
I am 'kind-a-slow'....you know,,,'a bit of a dim bulb'... so please forgive me ....now now now.....
PS; If you want bitchin H beam 392 rods, 7/16 ARP bolts, and almost 7 inches long heee heeee
I got ya covered bro.
On the widening,I would have Henry Velasco do it. Few have re done more SK Cranks then him. He was the 'go to' grinder at REATH and then VELASCOS, during the days when Cammers killed them all. You seem like a cool dude so, email me, and I will get you 'my price' which is an old guy deal.
Quoting Snake after he ran the car...'We beat them all''. I said to Long....'She was the class of the field'
NICE
Shore nuf did
BUT....and this is fair to say,,,,,Pete Robinson and Kalitta raced out of our shop. Pete's car was built 1 block down the street, by a legend, WOODY GILMORE. To those who claimed I didn't work at HMS, ask Woody? Later, he was in our shop in the 80s, for later.
Kalitta used our guys for his crew when he spent about half his year out here. We tested and raced all Fall and Winter and Spring here and had 7 tracks always open.
When Connie changed out his Logghe chassis, it was worn out,,,,,they cut it up and made go karts...Stroppe Jr used to terrorize the shop with one....come blasting through....hilarious !
We did those gear drives for several serious SOHC guys. My Boss did prototype Gear Drive for everything, on FORDS dime. I finished 2 for a hard core SOHC guy as late as 72-3. There are tricks to making gear drives but we had huge machining capacity. We hobbed gears and more. The trick is the changes after heat treat...and......
Lastly....I invested about 10 years of my life to work race by race to come up with the guys, the tune up that finally took out the Wiebe Record that stood for over 30 years. It was a bitchin day, only I have that tune up sheet.
I think before I pull the chutes we gotta take out the Bach and Gould record for a FORD. 6.32
What bitchin' guys. Man, the are full blown awesome.
I see no problem at all, none, why we cant stuff an FE in the 5s......no reason at all.
Also,,,,I invited 2 of the Ford Boys,,,,from, The Bakersfield Bunch, to the debut of that fierce nitro cammer,,,,both slid in,,,,to a Top Secret Deal. I invited them because they are stand up cool FORD guys. I have invited several blog pals to races in the past. That is how we roll. If you are real good, and hard core, we need your help. Hope to draft more of you soon.
Thanks
-
My chick is on strike so maybe some cool cat can lend a hand some day.
We all have that problem once in awhile..... I normally just do it myself and don't bother asking any other dude to help......
;)
-
Hopefully, my 2 legitimate questions aren't construed as trying to start an argument. I am genuinely interested in the answers, as I'm sure others are.
I'm not sure, however, why the conversation always turns to blown nitro cammers. I don't think the OP is planning on this sort of thing, or anybody else here for that matter. Using the NASCAR crank is just a bad idea for any type of street or typical drag scene. Heavy hard-to-find rods, non-existent bearing suppliers are 2 major reasons why. You can find the occasional set of bearings on Ebay, but if the crank ever needs turned or even dressed, it's done.
"just a bad idea" - I disagree.
I ran a NASCAR crank for over 15yrs in my drag cars. Same main bearings as regular crank. Turned the journals to 2.20 and used BBC rods. No problems.
The BBC rods are slightly wider than NASCAR rods so you have to machine a little off the width for them to fit. Another benefit going to 2.20 journal was having the journals offset ground
creating a stoker and I used 6.800 long BBC rods (easy to get)
-
It may have not been a bad idea back in the 60's and 70's when there wasn't a ready supply of aftermarket cranks but why in the world would someone nowadays buy a 50 year old crank and go to all that trouble and expense. That's assuming you could find a usable one to start with. Even if I had one I'd sell it in a heartbeat to finance a good Scat.
I don't have an answer to the original question of which is stronger however I think new anything is almost always a better investment.
-
Already had the crank, needed to grind anyway because of a spun bearing using the heavy (968 grams) NASCAR rods. changed to the BBC lighter rods and easy to get bearing.
-
Thanks for the info and confirmation Mike. I had read about this option from John V. and wondered how much strength was sacrificed, but you answered that by racing it for 15 years.
-
My $ crank was still able to go 3.99 stroke at 2.20 (standard size BBC) with 4.250 bore came out to 452ci.
Used new Arias pistons for the 4.250 bore and had standard BBC pin size so off the shelf BBC rods (narrowed a little) bearings and rings all fit. (Less expensive than Ford)
Ran in 9 sec car shifted at 7000. Through the lights off the throttle stop about 7400.
-
Ran in 9 sec car shifted at 7000. Through the lights off the throttle stop about 7400.
Impressive.
How long did you run that? Are you still?
-
Ran in 9 sec car shifted at 7000. Through the lights off the throttle stop about 7400.
Impressive.
How long did you run that? Are you still?
Ran Super Gas about 6 or 7 years, before that super street. Crank was reground and nitrided at Castillos in La Mirada, CA.
6.700 H beam rods and a short (don't remember measurements) piston. Light weight assembly probably was a big benefit along with slower bearing speeds,
Actually went 8000 rpm a few times on the burn out. Engine was still in great shape when I sold it. Guy found me through the FE forum and had me ship it to Florida for a
T-bolt clone street car.