FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fekbmax on September 08, 2015, 12:18:00 PM
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What the opinion on these types of cam drives. ?
Are gear drives really that hard on things? Power robbing ?
Belt drives worth the hype ? Definitely alot of serious racers using them.
Just looking for opinions. .
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I think the advantage of a belt drive like the Danny Bee unit is the ability to quickly change cam timing. I don't know how much cam timing changes with a standard timing chain setup due to chain stretch or whip, but of course a gear drive would eliminate that issue. I know for a fact that the SOHC cam timing can change dramatically due to chain stretch, but that's a whole 'nother animal compared to a regular FE timing chain...
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If a gear drive was a power robbing way to handle your timing, you wouldn't see F1 using them. I don't think their performance is the reason why you don't see them being run on more engines. The reason is probably cost and complexity. It can be somewhat difficult to make a gear drive that gives you a lot of options on timing. A belt drive gives you a lot of flexibility on timing adjustments while offering a predictable amount of stretch and are cheap. Chains, especially the longer ones, suffer from 2nd order harmonic waves (SOHC) that require dynamic tensioners. While I don't personally have experience with the gear drive system for the FE, I'm willing to bet that it is reliable. In terms of reliability, from best to worst, it goes gears, chains and then belts. Slippage from none / almost none to a little goes gears, chains and then belts. Cost from little to a lot goes belts, chains and then gears. Coef of Friction, from smallest to largest, goes belts, chains and then gears. Someone is more than welcome to revise this list but this is how I understand all 3. You pick what you feel is in your best interests.
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Don't forget the awesome whine from a Pete Jackson dual idler gear drive. :)
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How about the adjustable cam drive offered by cam research. ? Its been available for several years. Anyone here have any experience with it? Seems to offer more cam adjustments than the chain or milodon gear drive and is about 500$ cheaper than the Danny bee . With no major modifications.
Any thoughts. ?
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Let me ask this Jay.
Is being able to adjust the cam timing after setting the engine up really that important if the engine is dialed in well to begin with?
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If its really well dialed in to begin with, probably not. But I can envision a scenario where you put the engine together, run it on the dyno, and then find out it knocks under a light load at lower engine speeds. In a case like that, being able to retard the cam could really help with the detonation issue. Also, changing other parts of the car, like the rear end gears or torque converter for example, may make the engine want more or less cam timing. Its always good to have some flexibility in your tune up.
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LOL someone mentioned gear-drives in F1:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yRbDJaIH_D4/UEB8buDkSvI/AAAAAAAAHfs/ZSnaQpsrxPg/s1600/tm_ferrari_f1_engine_3litre_v10.jpg
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Let's see---
I got up to a count of 97 gears on the eyetalian doo-dad before I got so cross-eyed I lost count. Or maybe it was only 96...
;D :( :o :o :o ::) :P
KS
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The Ford 300 I6 is gear to gear. One of the reasons those things were indestructible.
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The only good Gear Drive is a Milodon. It has a fixed idler, unlike the Pete Jackson geardrive. I'm running one in my boat right now.
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The only good Gear Drive is a Milodon. It has a fixed idler, unlike the Pete Jackson geardrive. I'm running one in my boat right now.
What's wrong with the Pete Jackson? ???
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They use a floating idler gear instead of a fixed idler gear, like a Milodon. Those floaters are known for not lasting.
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I don't know, but we have had many hard street miles, passes, and high rpm with ours. No problems, knock on wood.
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So a milodon cheater set up properly robs no more power than a chain setup and should be good to go on a high hp drag race fe ?
Could the adjustments be made through one of jays covers or would the cover have to come off to make them ?
No input on the cam reserch setup ?
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Fekbmax, if you can remove the gear out of the cover. Sure! Milodons don't have the typical adjustment like you think. You can get it dead on nuts but you have to index it with the holes for the center screws. It's not like the loosen and move a degree or too and lock back down.
Ted Eaton wrote a small blurb about chain Vs Gear Drive. He dyno both. He felt it didn't rob power. Very accurate cam timing where the chain @6000 RPMs would go retared (because of the slack) would allow it to gain on the top end. I'll find it and post it for you. Very interesting for sure....