FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => The Road to Drag Week 2014 => Topic started by: jayb on August 10, 2014, 05:59:47 PM
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This was family vacation week, so there was a limit to how much work I could get done on the car. After last weekend, though, I didn't much feel like working on it anyway. Monday morning before we left town I came back out to the shop to check and see if the Loctite sealer had skinned over. It showed absolutely no sign of drying. Wondering if it would ever set up, the family and I got in the RV and took off.
All week long I was wondering about the sealer. We got back home Saturday night around 11:00 PM. First thing I did was head out to the shop to check the sealer; I really did NOT want to R&R the oil pan again. Lucky for me, sometime during the week the sealer decided to set up. Amazing ::) Last time I'm using that stuff...
This morning I got out to the shop by 9:00 and got ready to run the engine and check for leaks. I was still pretty convinced that the leak was coming from somewhere up behind the transmission, but after the last seal and oil pan gasket job I had to check. After filling the dry sump with oil I ran the test, and sure enough, the oil leak was still there.
At this point all I could do was pull the transmission, so after the engine cooled down I got to work on that. It is a tight squeeze up under that car for the Powerglide, and the headers kind of hook around the bellhousing on the bottom, so getting the transmission out is no small job. I ended up being able to get it out just by removing the right side collector, and jockeying the transmission towards the passenger side as I dropped it. Took me until 2:00 to get the transmission on the ground, then I used the impact to pull the flywheel bolts and take off the flywheel and the backing plate. I got up under the car to look with a certain amount of trepidation; I did not want to see everything looking good under there, that was for sure. Fortunately, the problem was obvious almost immediately:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Road to Drag Week 2014/oilleak1.jpg)
You will notice that there are two small allen head bolts with washers on them, that function to hold the rear cam plug in place. Unfortunately, there are supposed to be THREE small allen head bolts with washers, not just two. One of the allen head bolts was gone. I reached a small pick up to the hole and poked it through, and sure enough it went right into the crankcase. Oil splash must have been coming straight out of that hole.
Now, I'm the one that drilled and tapped those holes for the allen head bolts, because I've had problems in the past on the dyno with aluminum block engines where the cam plug comes out. So I always use some kind of a retainer mechanism on the cam plug, to keep it in place. Looks like in this case, though, that little "safety feature" cost me.
Just to double check this, I used the ultraviolet light to try to see some traces of oil in this area. It had been four hours since the engine had run, but I thought I might still see something with the light. Boy did I ever:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Road to Drag Week 2014/oilleak2.jpg)
There was lots of oil coming down across that cam plug, that's for sure. Next I took out the other two allen head bolts; these are 8-32 bolts, 1/4" long, with fairly large diameter washers to retain the cam plug. Both of the bolts that were still in there showed evidence of blue Loctite on the threads. Either I forgot to put the Loctite on the threads of the top bolt, or it just didn't hold for some reason.
Well, at least now I know what the problem was. But with the trans out of the car there is no way I'll be able to get it back together and to the track next weekend. One major reason I wanted to make it to the track was to see how the converter behaved, so in lieu of a track day I decided to pull the converter off the transmission in preparation for shipment to the converter place I use. If you give them engine and vehicle data, they are usually pretty good about getting the converter set up where you want it right out of the box. I'm going to give them a call tomorrow morning and ask if, with the dyno data I have and the vehicle specs, if the converter I've got will work OK or whether it needs to be modified. If it needs to be modified I'm going to ship it to them overnight, and hopefully get it back next weekend, so that I can FINALLY get the car all the way together. All the wiring is done except for some basic cleanup, so once I get the transmission reinstalled and the front suspension back in, I can actually drive the car, which I must say I'm looking forward to.
On another front Steve has been working on the hood scoop, and has the hood pretty much all ready for paint; here's a picture of it sitting on a stand in my paint booth:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Road to Drag Week 2014/primedhood.jpg)
Steve plans to get the hood painted sometime this week. In the meantime, the rest of the car is all apart:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Road to Drag Week 2014/apart.jpg)
I've got some little things to work on during the week this week, which should finish up the remaining details on the car. Should be another thrash next weekend, but maybe, maybe, I can get it done. I'll post another update next Sunday.
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Well that's a bummer, but always better to find the smoking gun, then apply money or time, as opposed to sitting there stumped!
Good luck on the reassembly!
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Ugh, just went through the tranny R&R myself to fix what turned out to be a minor, but major PITA, problem. At least you found the smoking gun. That's a good thing. Hopefully it's smooth sailing from here on out.
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Well you found the problem,thats good.
Did you find the screw and washer?
Time to drill for safety wire.
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Time to drill for safety wire.
Now that there is a good idea.
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Jay, do you plan on changing the painting process to see if you can get the color on the hood closer to what you orginally wanted, or do you paint it to match the car?
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I'm going to paint it to match the car, and then repaint the whole thing at some later date.
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Glad you found it and that your sealer finally set up. Hopefully the converter guy will come back saying you're good to go so you can get that puppy back together right away!
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I'm glad you found the leak and I'm glad it wasn't serious. The hood looks good, kudos to the fiberglass man.
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Lose bolt, eh? Did the auto flex plate hit it and make it come loose? some convertor bloom maybe while running in-car? Perhaps the normal fore-back play of the crank's thrust freeplay+convertor? That bolt head looks to be in the path of the outer portion of the flexplate.
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Jay, I gotta agree with Bob, that it looks like the bolt heads are sticking out kind of far. If the plate had hit the bolt heads though I would think that you would see metal shavings or a sheared off bolt. While you have it apart still, you should put some hardened button heads in there instead of the cap screws. Now would be the time instead of after the fact. Plus the weight savings of button heads vs cap screws. Lol! Dan
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In the meantime, the rest of the car is all apart:
I don't know Jay you could be much more "all apart" :D
Giddy Up at Drag Week.
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Wait! Titanium button heads, that's the ticket! LOL!
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mist, spray etc any part of the silicone you want to harden. Supposedly silicone is set-off by humidity and contact with a bit of water sets the whole works off. I'd slap-dab forgotten about that. It will set-up in a fraction of the time if directly exposed to moisture rather then waiting for humidity in the ambient air to do it.
Correspondingly I found if you carefully displace the silicone at the top of tube by going airless to plastic wrap, then put on the cap over the wrap the silicone does not turn solid in the tube. Seems micro contact of silicone with ambient humidity and screwing on a cap can set up the whole tube making it useless for next time use.
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Lose bolt, eh? Did the auto flex plate hit it and make it come loose? some convertor bloom maybe while running in-car? Perhaps the normal fore-back play of the crank's thrust freeplay+convertor? That bolt head looks to be in the path of the outer portion of the flexplate.
Hmmm, I will check that, but I don't think those bolt heads are close to the flexplate. I'm using an ATI flexplate that works with the sleeve that they use; the sleeve bolts onto the crank, and the flexplate bolts to the sleeve. This way the flexplate is straight, not dished like a normal factory flexplate. Seems to me it would have to move 1/4" or more to hit those bolt heads. But I will check...
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Jay do you have oil pressure behind that cap without a cam? It's all splash with the main fed from the side and no cam or lifters to oil in block is'nt it? Have you had that cap pop out ?
Lance
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I have to say I'm looking forward to the finished product, that hood looks killer! Good on the leak too, as much work as it caused the source is superficial, way better than digging in deeper at this point.
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I'm glad you found a thru hole, and not one plugged with a loctited and broken bolt. Hope the worst is over now. Later, Travis
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Jay do you have oil pressure behind that cap without a cam? It's all splash with the main fed from the side and no cam or lifters to oil in block is'nt it? Have you had that cap pop out ?
Lance
No oil pressure there, just splash. I have had that cam plug pop out, twice before, on aluminum block engines. That's why I like to secure it mechanically.
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Lose bolt, eh? Did the auto flex plate hit it and make it come loose? some convertor bloom maybe while running in-car? Perhaps the normal fore-back play of the crank's thrust freeplay+convertor? That bolt head looks to be in the path of the outer portion of the flexplate.
Hmmm, I will check that, but I don't think those bolt heads are close to the flexplate. I'm using an ATI flexplate that works with the sleeve that they use; the sleeve bolts onto the crank, and the flexplate bolts to the sleeve. This way the flexplate is straight, not dished like a normal factory flexplate. Seems to me it would have to move 1/4" or more to hit those bolt heads. But I will check...
Just checked, and the top of the allen head capscrew is 11/16" away from the flexplate. Not gonna be a problem...
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Good to know!
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Jay do you have oil pressure behind that cap without a cam? It's all splash with the main fed from the side and no cam or lifters to oil in block is'nt it? Have you had that cap pop out ?
Lance
No oil pressure there, just splash. I have had that cam plug pop out, twice before, on aluminum block engines. That's why I like to secure it mechanically.
ahh, ok got it. thanks
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How many of these cars do you still own?
Is this going to be your third sub 10 second car you own?
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I have a really hard time selling cars. Still have the Mach 1, the 64 Galaxie, the 68 Shelby, the 69 Galaxie, the 60 Thunderbird, the 68 Mustang fastback...
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yeah... i have the same problem i just wish my cars were as epic as yours
I have a jeep
a 57 thunderbird
a 61 galaxie
a 99 f150 and...
a kia (insert sad noise here)
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I have a really hard time selling cars. Still have the Mach 1, the 64 Galaxie, the 68 Shelby, the 69 Galaxie, the 60 Thunderbird, the 68 Mustang fastback...
I still see the nose of the GT.
Which was a drag week winner also?
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That's right, Howie, I won in 2006 in the Daily Driver class with the GT. After that they changed to rules to add a bracket race for the top 32 cars at the end of the week. Back when I won you had to try to average 12.000, without going less than that. On my 15th pass on the last day I ran an 11.939, which gave me a perfect 12.000 for the week. I think they didn't like it that I spent the last day doing laps, trying for that perfect time, so now they have the bracket race LOL!
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Worse Jay than the laps for consistency....it was a FORD! LOL!
Only BBC and LS-7's are allowed to win on a regular basis.....you should know that!
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we get all excited if a head flows much over 300 cfm...
LS motors...
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/view.php?id=518&c=20&s=4
Flow Data w/4.125" Bore Plate
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.100 76 65
0.200 163 118
0.300 245 171
0.400 307 212
0.500 350 229
0.600 379 245
0.650 388 247
0.700 395 249
0.800 401.5 258
0.900 406 260
1.000 410 263
MAST ls3 heads
Flow Data w/4.125" Bore Plate
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.100 78 65
0.200 162 118
0.300 243 171
0.400 304 212
0.500 347 229
0.550 362
0.600 376 245
0.650 384 247
0.700 390 249
I really wish someone would do this for fords....
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CFE already has. Their billet Yates head outflows any LS head by a wide margin. Note too they have other makes of outlaw racing heads and blocks and billet blocks too. The Storm King head can do over 430 CFM on a 4.120 bore SBF. No FE heads of course but......
Hang around the Pro Sportsman's ranks and high-end Sprint car crowd and you'll find lots SBF's running CFE's heads and (drag racing) sheet metal intakes. The heads cast or billet accept mechanical F.I. down nozzles well, a must for Spring Car racing. Btw, a really good all-aluminum 410 CID SBF with mechanical F.I., ready-to-run will set you back $35,000 these days.
http://www.cferacing.com/?pid=67
Btw, if you really want a kick in the pants, check this 600 CID SBC article. As you read it, take a close look at the intake and exhaust port size, shape and spacing. As time has gone on, the Chevy crowd has slowly moved into the Ford Cleveland camp (an over 45 year old design!) as today's hottest non-LS engines sport identical heads and chambers to modern design Yates/Cleveland architecture! Heck, they have even dropped the Chevy firing order and rear mounted distributor.
And while the LS series is a hot engine, the hottest SB Chevys running in Pro Sportsman's and Sprint Cars owe nothing, zero, to the LS designs. They also have CFE type heads or similar canted valve heads ala' the Yates/Cleveland designs and they too flow well over 400 cfm.
As a Chevy guy told me LS's are for streeters and wimps, pro & real racers run CFE! LOL!
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/cfe-develops-600-cubic-inch-small-block-engine/
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yeah... the truth is the hurricane motor is supposed to be able to be bored/stroked out to 7 liters...
I'd love to see someone make that into a modern cammer...
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For a peak at a seven Litre Hurricane do a search on Don Bowles mystery motor Maverick.
All those small block heads are adorable. Things get fun as you approach or exceed 500 CFM on a 4.6" bore with a 2.45" intake valve.
Jay, do you run a block plate/ separator plate between the trans and the block under the flex plate? I still do although I'm not sure why.
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Bill, us FE guys have to run the block plate because it indexes the starter properly to the flywheel. If you don't run one you take the chance of having the starter misaligned, and wearing out the flywheel teeth or starter gear prematurely. Having said that, after my recent TRANSMISSION REMOVAL >:( >:( I cut the middle out of the block plate so I'd have better access to the rear main cap to check for leaks...