FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: blykins on October 08, 2013, 07:41:55 AM
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Duplicate post from the other forum, but I didn't know how many people were just members here.
It's interesting to see some of the trends that come and go with customer builds. It's almost like fashion....bell bottoms were in, out (thank goodness), back in again, back out, etc. I see the same trends with engine builds....guys want big inch stroker builds, then the old factory stuff comes back in style.
I enjoy the swing, sometimes doing the same build over and over gets boring and after 4-5 482-500 inch all aluminum engines in a row, a few old school builds are welcomed.
Here is a 427 S/O LR build that I did for Matt Moore, a forum member in the UK. I think I posted the dyno results a while back, but I didn't post any pictures that I can remember.
This was an NOS 427 block, and we used a 391 crank that Adney cut for me. The heads were ported C3 LR heads, and the LR 2x4 intake was modified as well. Oliver 6.800" rods, Race-Tec pistons with .043/.043/3mm rings, and a Bullet solid flat tappet cam 255/263 @ .050", .640/.640" lift, 106 LSA on a 102 ICL. Compression ratio was a little over 11:1. The carbs were custom built by my carb guy, a pair of 600 cfm Holleys. Even running factory adjustable rockers and a dual points distributor. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">
This one made 510 hp @ 6000 and carried it all the way to 6500, only losing 5-6 hp there. Torque was 511 lb-ft @ 4200. The Stuska dyno that I use is a little on the conservative side and compared to other DTS and Superflow dynos, we usually see about 5% difference on peak hp results.
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/1AA1468A-8FA5-4671-AAAD-6E0400AD0FA9-1054-00000185EDB81E1E_zps548552a3.jpg)
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/FE41C7E2-6BD9-4197-AEDD-9ABCB5129031-90-00000000DDC1307F_zpsd73912e2.jpg)
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/53D2EE5A-61D5-4364-AF81-75E7468B46EF-90-00000000D3258810_zpsbe9b77a1.jpg)
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/BCFD93DE-00D7-45AF-B6E6-A99422A1E281-90-00000000C43C4EAA_zps675b8489.jpg)
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/15CCDE04-4001-40D4-A97D-961B66B77823-90-00000000B292C42F_zps7cd1fd52.jpg)
I'm currently working on four other old school pieces.
1. If you're ever around the Columbus, OH area, I would suggest stopping by Boss Cars in Gahanna. It's pure pleasure for any Mustang fan. Boss 302's, Boss 429's, GT350's, GT500's, you name it. A forum member, Grant Hukle, is having them restore a GT500, and I ran up there to pick up his 428CJ to build. It will be showroom-correct on the outside (down to the 78lb intake manifold), but is getting treated to a hydraulic roller and some other updated parts inside.
Just ordered some Ferrea valves for the heads and I will post some flow numbers on the heads with an updated valve job. Will be dyno'ing the finished engine as well, so it will be cool to see some 428CJ numbers.
2. Rick Bagley isn't a member here, but is a member on some of the Cobra forums. He lives here in KY, about 35 minutes from me and has a 427 that I'm rebuilding for him. He had a leaky intake gasket and while he was in the motor updating things, found out that he had a broken ring that was scuffing the cylinder walls pretty badly. He took this time to completely freshen the engine up, with a new solid flat tappet cam from Bullet (240/245 @ .050", .620" lift, 108 LSA), new Diamond pistons, and new Scat rods.
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/photo16_zps88934ade.jpg)
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/photo15_zps56ab278d.jpg)
It will get prettier, I promise.
The top end is a set of Edelbrock heads and a Blue Thunder intake.
3. Next up is a new/old build for forum member Gary Veres. Gary has a set of Tunnel Port heads that hit a pretty good lick....about 345 @ .600". They're going on a new Pond cast iron block, 4.310" x 3.980" using a new forged RPM crank with BBC rod journals. Running Lunati H-beam 6.800" rods, custom Diamond pistons, a custom Total Seal .043/.043/3mm ring package, a Bullet solid flat tappet cam, and a TP 2x4 intake with a set of our Quick Fuel 2x4 725cfm carbs. We're going with some more modernized pieces on the top end....T&D rockers, MSD distributor, etc.
I think I'm looking forward to this build the most...
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/40BE452C-A763-4219-9BE6-FC6191187709-1103-00000271BA287924_zpsc2b29323.jpg)
4. Lastly is an old 352 that I'm doing for myself. I bought a complete running core from James Hunter, a forum member in WV. Believe it or not, I'm going to dyno this puppy as it sits with all the factory parts on it. Past that, I'm going to keep a tight lip....I've got some big plans for it using the factory stroke, C6AE-R heads, and some other goodies.
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/imagejpeg_0_zpsd53f70fb.jpg)
Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC
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Very cool stuff Brent, and that 352 looks like it'll be a blast
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I think so too. Never built a 352, and certainly not with a big fatty solid roller cam. :) This one is going to serve several purposes and should be a lot of fun.
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I've got a bone stock 352 that came out of my '64 Galaxie when I bought it. I've always been tempted to dyno it just for fun, but have never gotten around to it. I'll be looking forward to your results with that, and also that tunnel port motor. Tunnel ports are cool... 8)
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Anyone care to guess what it will pull? It's a '66 model, out of an F-100 if I understand correctly. Haven't got it in hand yet, but it will get thrashed once I do.
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2 barrel carb? I'll say not over 200 horse. 66 passenger with 4 barrel was factory rated at 250. I'll be watching for the before and after pulls with great curiosity.
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I gotta think that if I was building a new Pond block, I wouldn`t be sticking a cheap RPM crank in it.
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I bet that 352 2V will hit 220 hp with the log manifolds on the dyno. Interesting builds. Joe-JDC.
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Rory,
I've used quite a few RPM cranks. Nothing wrong with the composition of them, they just often need some machine work to be perfect. Last two RPM cranks that I bought for an FE were 4.375" and 3.980" stroke cranks. Both of them needed turned .010"/.010", but I would trust them. Just made 580 hp with one in a 482 inch engine....
I've heard of lots of Eagle cranks breaking....but I personally have not heard of any Scat or RPM cranks going south.
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I say.....205 hp on the dyno, crappy OEM logs, and approx. 275 lbs./ft.
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I'm going to say 220 HP with that 2 barrel carb, log manifolds, stock distributor, etc. But I really have no idea. I should sneak mine onto the dyno first ;D
Also FYI Robert Pond had an RPM crank go south on him on an SOHC he built last year. I think he said it developed a crack on the dyno and the engine started vibrating. He shut it off without damaging anything, and replaced it with a billet crank. He was making about 860 HP with the RPM crank, though, so maybe that was the reason...
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Very cool stuff indeed , look forward to some results posted for sure
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Yeah, 860 hp at over 7000 rpm is quite a load. I know that Robert uses a ton of the RPM 4.250 cranks and I think Blair uses their 4.375 cranks a lot. I think we all have them machined before we use them.
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Brent,
Great FE eye candy! For that 'lil 352 I'll go just under the factory rating of 220hp and guess 215. Gets me to thinking about possibilities for my original 352-2v equipped '63 Galaxie fastback. I think Jay's right; the Galaxie needs a stroker...
Bruce
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Very cool. I'm a little partial to the old school builds myself, partly for the nostalgia of it.
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Very cool to see some 'traditional' builds, thanks for sharing Brent.
The truck 352 was rated at 208 horsepower from 65-67, and was the top dog in truck line up. I'd bet somewhere just south of 200hp.
Curious to know what heads that engine has? Interestingly, of the 352's I've seen, in 66 Ford kept the earlier 'low riser' style intake port for both car and truck applications, while the 390's all got the new head design with short intake ports. Head casting numbers I have seen have been C6AE-R and C6TE-_, whether car or truck. In 67, truck 352's had the small port heads just like the car 390's.
That 352 might have a 2BBL intake with low riser sized ports as well, and that carb might be a big venturi version. A;; trival information, I suppose, but still curious to see what numbers that old work horse puts out.
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The heads are C6AE-R's....another reason I bought this engine. :)
It cracks me up that most people are responding about the 352...hahaha I love the underdogs too. :)
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I really like the " old school" type stuff. Seems everyone has a big stroker motor.
Wanted to do something a little different with mine. My 66 Fairlane is just an old school hot rod. Nothing more.
Kind of built like what Ford did with their factory cars.
The whole build was basically designed around the Tunnel Port heads. Once they were flowed we discussed the
options. I wanted to stay with a "stock" Ford stroke, flat tappet cam and a rotating assembly that would let it
rev. I think what Brent has come up with will let us achieve our goal.
I see that Brent's 352 has gotten the attention of a few. Will be interesting to see what he
comes up with for it. I'm sure when he's done with it it won't be a grocery getter.
garyv
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of course everyone is into the 352.
Same reason we all are in love with Cody's truck with 390.....
any idiot can write a check for a 482, stuff it in a mustang and tear around with it. Takes a real idiot to keep up with him in a 76 f100 with an iron headed 390 that was built in the garage.
Fe's by nature are a more grass roots type engine. This is the same reason that Nascar was cool in the 60's, you could see yourself in that car, it was real.
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I was just reading the last post by Drew and suddenly realized "Hay, he is talking about me!". It might make a nice license plate though, "Idiots487"
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of course everyone is into the 352.
Same reason we all are in love with Cody's truck with 390.....
any idiot can write a check for a 482, stuff it in a mustang and tear around with it. Takes a real idiot to keep up with him in a 76 f100 with an iron headed 390 that was built in the garage.
Fe's by nature are a more grass roots type engine. This is the same reason that Nascar was cool in the 60's, you could see yourself in that car, it was real.
So all of us that have a 482 are idiots?
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I wouldn't get too upset about it. Drew's next statement is that it takes a bigger idiot to hang it out with a 390....
If you know Drew, he's not pointing fingers, or trying to insult....that's just his lingo. His email address begins with "ringworm" if that helps you understand him better. He's a good guy.
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I'm the idiot that historically speaking, puts a $8,000 engine in a $1,000 truck.
If any of us were sane, we'd all be driving prius's like the rest of the soulless masses. If power was the issue, we'd all be stroking 460's into the stratosphere like everyone else. So yes, I think we are all nuts/idiotic, we chose to take the harder path. My reason for loving Fe's is "cuz they sound cool"
My comments are more self deprecating than anything else.... I always point a finger home first.... not my fault ya'll are standing too close :-)
(puts on bumper sticker that says "ThunderBucket" and parks way too close to Mmason)
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I'm the idiot that historically speaking, puts a $8,000 engine in a $1,000 truck.
If any of us were sane, we'd all be driving prius's like the rest of the soulless masses. If power was the issue, we'd all be stroking 460's into the stratosphere like everyone else. So yes, I think we are all nuts/idiotic, we chose to take the harder path. My reason for loving Fe's is "cuz they sound cool"
My comments are more self deprecating than anything else.... I always point a finger home first.... not my fault ya'll are standing too close :-)
(puts on bumper sticker that says "ThunderBucket" and parks way too close to Mmason)
I smell a good thread hijack here. Why do we love our FEs? As Drew says, if we were chasing the most HP and wanted to save money and stay Ford, we'd be building 460s. My reasons are:
1. They came in the coolest production cars ever (427 Cobras, 67-70 Mustangs, 66-69 Fairlanes/Torinos, 64-69 Galaxies, etc.)
2. They have a great racing pedigree (GT-40, 427 Cobra, Thunderbolts, LW Galaxies, CJ Mustangs, M/T 69 Mustang funny cars, etc.)
3. They are an attractive engine, with options like the pentroof valve covers, factory 2X4 setups, etc.
4. No engine sounds better than a solid lifter FE with open headers.
A 460 can't make any of those claims. They are attractive from a power and cost standpoint, but the FE's history gives it a soul that a 385 series engine can't match. What do you guys think?
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So all of us that have a 482 are idiots?
I must be a bigger idiot than you, Howie, 'cause I've got some 500"+ motors ;D ;D ;D
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Jay,
I hate to toss around a label like "idiot" but I can think of no other term for a fella that has changed what, 400-500, FE intake manifolds for fun.
You sir are the king. In this case it isn't a bad thing, heck I admire you and most of the other here as much further advanced than my own pitiful attempts.
On another note... I have a 500hp 429 in my 63.5 Galaxie. It is a superb engine. If I had a 300hp 390 in the shop right now I'd probably swap them :P The engine does anything I'd want it to do, but it just doesn't *feel* right. That isn't a normal line of thinking, is it?
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I like to look of the FE and what other
American Engine have won the lemans.....
(well the sbf i guess but thats later)
maby Its with Engines as with women if they look
good they are more expensive to maintain ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I smell a good thread hijack here. Why do we love our FEs? As Drew says, if we were chasing the most HP and wanted to save money and stay Ford, we'd be building 460s. My reasons are:
1. They came in the coolest production cars ever (427 Cobras, 67-70 Mustangs, 66-69 Fairlanes/Torinos, 64-69 Galaxies, etc.)
2. They have a great racing pedigree (GT-40, 427 Cobra, Thunderbolts, LW Galaxies, CJ Mustangs, M/T 69 Mustang funny cars, etc.)
3. They are an attractive engine, with options like the pentroof valve covers, factory 2X4 setups, etc.
4. No engine sounds better than a solid lifter FE with open headers.
A 460 can't make any of those claims. They are attractive from a power and cost standpoint, but the FE's history gives it a soul that a 385 series engine can't match. What do you guys think?
I like where this is going...
For me, it's how I was raised. These engines were in cars 25 years before I was born. But growing up we only had Fords, and my dad has had the donor car for his Thunderbolt clone since I was 7. I remember working on it with him before I was 10. Then having kids caught up with him and he set the project aside. Now 20 years later we are working on it together again. I still remember when he picked up the 427 for it.
As for me personally, I'm partial to the 406 and 427 because they were a HiPo only engine. They weren't just a performance variation of a standard engine. They never came in a production truck. If you look at others like the 460 based engines, or numerous others, they were available in almost anything. A guy can say his drag car is 460 powered, and the guy next to him says "hey thats the engine I have in my motorhome." But if you say it 427 based, well that is something special.
I also like my FE engines because they are unique. At any given car show you may only have a handful there, and maybe not any that have been really built.
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For me it's the first engine I was really aware of because it was in my dads brand new 1965 Pickup.
The racing history built on that.
And Jay's point of the sound is right on. There is no engine that sounds better.
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From one Idiot to all the other Idiots my love for the FE started with my first pickup. I liked the 390 so much more than the next 2 trucks with 302's. Then I got a chance to hear a few at the drag strip and fell in love with there sound. It's been an addiction that there is no cure for ever since.
I don't even want to think what a 460 based motor would do with what I'm getting ready to spend on my new FE build. It's a full on IDIOT of a build with a Shelby block based centrifugal supercharged, EFI monstrosity with the help of Blair. More to come on that later.
I do have a few cars that need a few of these so called old school builds. Also have a 428scj that's an older rebuild with stock type parts that I need to find a car to put it in someday. Get it out of my bedroom. :)
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I'm a bigger idiot!! People ask me how long have you had this car? I say 40 yrs? They say are you the original owner? I say nope, bought in 1974 for 400 bucks with 85k on it. It was my daily driver till 1990!
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I have always been a Ford man and come from a Ford family. My first truck had a FE in it and it it when it wore out, I did not have the funds to pay someone to rebuild it, so I did it myself. I have rebuilt 4 FEs since. Hate to say it, but the only other engines I have ever rebuilt were air cooled Volkswagens.
I have owned For a 460, a 289.a 302, a 4.0 and still have a V-10 F-350 and a new Exploder. Never had engine trouble with any them,except for the FE's.
The FE is engine that puts lead in my pencil, so I guess that makes me a candidate for an FE Idiot's Award too!!!!...crate 460 or SBF would have been too easy I guess.
My guess for the 352 horsepower number 165, as I'm assuming it's a bit tired.
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Another idiot checking in! Sure, a 460 based build would have been cheaper and more horsepower than what I'm doing, but after agonizing for weeks over the decision I'm very sure that the FE stroker is the right way to go for me.
Also looking forward to seeing what the 352 does before and after!
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Gee, Drew sure is getting a lot of mileage out of that post ;D
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I guess I fall into the "idiot" catagory x 2. 4 FE powered cars, 1 FE powered trucks, 1 FE powered V-drive boat but also have 2 460 powered cars. My 60 Starliner has a mild built 460 and MK IV Lincoln. 2 more V-drive boats with 460 based engines. I like 'em all....anything Ford powered is fine with me from Model A 4 cyls to Flatheads to inline 6 cyls to Y-blocks to small blocks to Clevelands/Modifieds to FEs to MELs to 385s and all varities in between....Including the stuff from Europe as well. If it's built by Ford its all good to me. BTW, I like the Blykins' 352 build too...'nuthun like cheering on the underdog.
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I'll fall in that category too, because I have both alum headed and iron headed strokers in vehicles that I have owned for 18 and 30 years respectively.
I'll also add that I was beginning to think it was a stupid hobby, but I played golf yesterday (poorly) for 6 hrs or so, and spen7 75 bucks or so. When all was said and done and just had a sunburn, and empty bottle of Motrin and a bruised ego to show for it...maybe the car stuff is actually a better deal
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I've came to the conclusion that anything that you enjoy doing is going to cost a wad of money....golf, guns, cars, you name it. Gotta spend it somewhere though.
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ROI! Return on investment. Everything boils down to that. Time spent on whatever is important in life will yield a ROI; marriage, children, friends, job, hobbies. What is most important will eventually become evident by how much time you spend on it. It is hard to keep things in perspective sometime when you don't get the ROI expected in a particualr area.
The ROI on a stroker is so much easier than building a small engine to the same power level and not succeding. It is what it is when it is said and done. Unrealistic goals will lead to disappointment in any investment, so whatever goal you set for that "little 352" needs to be somewhere in the vicinity of 1.5hp/ci, or you will be disappointed. More will be an accomplishment. Soooo, anything over 535hp will be bragging territory! Go for it. Joe-JDC
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Guns, Golf, Cars.....Hah! None compare to spending money......on the ladies....Ouch & LOL!
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of course everyone is into the 352.
Same reason we all are in love with Cody's truck with 390.....
any idiot can write a check for a 482, stuff it in a mustang and tear around with it. Takes a real idiot to keep up with him in a 76 f100 with an iron headed 390 that was built in the garage.
Fe's by nature are a more grass roots type engine. This is the same reason that Nascar was cool in the 60's, you could see yourself in that car, it was real.
Wow guess I need to get over here more often... can we say thread hijack.... im really curious about the 352 also... I've always been a fan of the underdog... what I like about the FE's is nobody around here expects them to run very well and the younger generations don't even know what one looks like.... Im younger than a bunch of you guys but not as young as a lot of kids I see at the race track... thanks for the compliment drew lol. I also fall into the idiot category as I have a been stock piling parts for another Fe... or seven... yes its cheaper and easier to build a different platform but im stubborn and like being different. There's more in the pipeline for my truck and fe
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you are most welcome sir.
How many times do people scratch their head at the track over your truck? I could see the conversation now.
"Wow, so is that a Chevy engine in there?"
Nope
"So a 460 stroker?"
Nope, it is an FE
"ohh so one of those big 427 strokers"
No, 390 with iron heads... just some stuff I threw together.
"Yeah, we had one when I was a kid in a F350... got like 8mpg, leaked and burned a quart of oil every 100miles, low compression engine with no sack whatsoever."
Yeah... that's the one.
Anyhow, sorry if I ruffled anyones feathers here. Wasn't meant that way.
Thread hijack? I think I probably got Brent more press with this thread then he's ever had before, so some good comes of it all.
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This group of FE nutcases seem to all agree... we all like a engine family that takes us down the road less traveled in todays society. I think its great. Im usually first in line when somebody tells me this wont do that or that will never work...lol there are some very intelligent people on here and im glad I can read and learn about other peoples adventures... Drew you are too funny... that story has happened before.... carry on
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When you pop the hood on any of those cars , i think it makes a statement .. When i bought my 69 mach 1 m code ( 351 4v ) with no motor , no tranny the door was wide open for any of Fords engines .. BIG BLOCK f e was the only option i ever considered , and yes it costs more but its only money right .. : )
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Guess I too should get into the idiot pile also. I am probably alittle more than others because of the 466 stroker FE, a 67f100 drag truck and a clutchless Liberty 5 speed to boot. But mid10's is fun I will admit. Especially when all the Cheby goons ask if it's powered by a 460 and I give them the look. You all know it. It's the look of " what are you an idiot or something? " It' s a freakin FE dummy.
Bruce Faulkner
SSG U.S. ARMY (RET)
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Another idiot checking in….there is something in every post of this thread that I agree with, but I am addicted to the sound! No other engine has it. Just hope I can go the rest of my life being an idiot spending his extra money on FE powered Fords, tools and shop equipment.
Keith
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Only One of the reasons for my love of FE's!
Mario's '67 Daytona 500 winning Fairlane...
http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/Bselby1/media/image_zps4e7736c4.jpg.html
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4. Lastly is an old 352 that I'm doing for myself. I bought a complete running core from James Hunter, a forum member in WV. Believe it or not, I'm going to dyno this puppy as it sits with all the factory parts on it. Past that, I'm going to keep a tight lip....I've got some big plans for it using the factory stroke, C6AE-R heads, and some other goodies.
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/imagejpeg_0_zpsd53f70fb.jpg)
Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC
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Interesting builds Brent!
I too am very curious to see what the 352 does. My dad bought a new 1966 F100 in october 1965 with a 352, 3spd on the column with a 4.11 Ran really well.
I currently have 2 Running '66 Trucks with 352's & 3 More 352's under the bench. One of those had never had a bolt turned on it ran unbelievably well. Because it ran so well tore it down to see what it was made of so to say. Found out during teardown it had never been apart. With exception of the timing chain looked like it had very few miles. Plan on rebuilding it back to stock.
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Only One of the reasons for my love of FE's!
Mario's '67 Daytona 500 winning Fairlane...
http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/Bselby1/media/image_zps4e7736c4.jpg.html
Autograph day in Dartmouth NS ;D
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/PICT0022.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/PICT0022.jpg.html)
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I love FE's the last Nascrap race I went to was in 67 the old road course at Mid-america in MO. standing in the woods in the infield and 30+ 426and427 powered race cares roared up the hill toward me
I was in heaven,Mario had 2 67 farlanes at the race I can still close my eyes and hear them!
That pict bring back memories!
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I'm dyno'ing two FE's on the 22nd. A 487 with Pond heads, a Victor intake, and a solid roller cam.......and my little 352. I don't know which one I'm looking forward to the most...ROFL I just hope the 352 doesn't pee all over the dyno room. :)
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Brent (or anyone else),
any chance you weighed the Pond iron block? Just curious.... also I have never seen the block with the caps off, and/or the underside of the caps. I heard that they have dowel pins on the parting line. Is that true? Any more pictures of the block you can share?
Also, since you have assembled lots of different aftermarket blocks, maybe you can share some details as far as features and differences among them? Kind of a "cheat sheet" on pro's and cons of each, how they "stack up" against each other?
I am familiar with the Genesis block as well as OEM, having assembled several, just never had my hands on a Pond or Shelby. Now with the Side-oiler Garage and Bear coming on line... looks like we have several choices. Myself, I am still playing with my OEM center-oiler, but for how long who knows. I would like to "edumacate" myself for the future... I am sure others would like to know key features as well.
Thanks.
P.S. how nasty of a cam in the 487 and what are you hoping to get HP wise, target use for the engine?
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I'm hoping to make it up to Barrys to pick up my Sideoiler Garage block yet this week. I was going to do a comparison post with one of my spare OEM sideoiler blocks. From everything I've heard, they should be a good improvement over the Genesis blocks and the issues they had. Not insinuating they weren't good blocks, just needed some corrective work.
We shall see.
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I didn't weigh the Pond iron block, but I'll say that it's one of the heaviest blocks I've ever picked up....or helped pick up. My guess is that it weighs about 250 lbs. It's a chunk. They are made pretty much exactly like the aluminum Pond blocks, doweled mains, etc. The main caps have a threaded hole in the top and I use a little slide hammer to get them off when I need to. The iron block will go to a 4.400" bore. Not too shabby.
I've never touched a Shelby block, just OEM stuff and Pond stuff. I was a distributor for Genesis, but I got in right around the time people started complaining of the porosity issues and the time it took to have the issues fixed. I was gun shy.
I'm pretty fond of the Pond blocks, especially for what you get for the price for an aluminum block. The aluminum blocks are really light, I can pick them up with the caps on them and pack them around wherever I need to.
They come needing all machine work, but that's kinda par for the course. I don't know of any aftermarket blocks that don't need touched in almost every facet. My plan of attack is to usually check the plug behind the distributor, and they usually need tapped deeper. I pop the cam bearings in with some green Loctite, using Durabond bearings. The casting behind the front cam bearing needs clearanced for the distributor gear, and depending on which bearing you use, it will need clearanced too. The oil pump hole needs a little work, so that usually gets a little die grinder work. I also tap the dipstick hole for a plug.
The block gets torque plates put on, and then stuck in a hot jet wash cabinet to seat the sleeves. It's then bored and honed with torque plates, align honed, and then square decked. The lifter bores are reamed and honed to fit the lifters.
There are two things that stick out in my mind that I don't like....one is the rear "side oiler" galley plug is an o-ringed AN plug. Sometimes I have a hard time getting them to seal up. The other is that the holes that hold the oil filter adapter on seem to be pretty shallow and when I use a billet oil filter adapter that needs a socket head bolt, it seems like a 3/4" is almost too short, and a 7/8" is too long.
That was the Cliffs notes version I suppose.
The 487 is going to be pretty fun. The heads do pretty good for a mildly ported Pond head:
Intake
.300 221
.400 279
.500 323
.600 331
.700 344
.800 354
Exhaust
.300 179
.400 230
.500 254
.600 266
.700 270
The cam is a Bullet solid roller, 263/268, 110 LSA, with .700" gross lift. Not too wild, not too mild. It's got a Victor intake, ported by Joe Craine, and I got a free Holley Ultra HP 950 to try on it. T&D rockers, MSD, Aviaid pan, blah, blah, blah.
I expect on the Stuska dyno that I use, it will be somewhere around the 640-650 hp range. We've done a comparison between it and a neighboring Super Flow, and there has been around a 40 hp difference on an engine of this caliber.
It's going in a Shelby Cobra replica....pretty much 70-80% of my engines go in them.
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Only One of the reasons for my love of FE's!
Mario's '67 Daytona 500 winning Fairlane...
http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/Bselby1/media/image_zps4e7736c4.jpg.html
Autograph day in Dartmouth NS ;D
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/PICT0022.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/PICT0022.jpg.html)
What the heck was Mario Andretti doing in Dartmouth NS on a perfect summer day?
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Thanks for the info Brent. I appreciate it.
I found out the hard way on the wide Pond cam bearing clearance problem on the first Genesis block I assembled awhile back. The short block was done and pan and front cover were on, heads were on,etc. and as I was installing the intake, dropped the distributor in to center the intake... nope, wasn't going down. Gear on the distributor wouldn't clear the wide bearing. You know the rest of the story... cam had to come back out... then I made a tool to pull the bearing (versus trying to clearance it at that point... no way), I then re-installed a normal FE Dura-bond (performance) #1 cam bearing in its place (the only bearing that is basically a "normal" FE bearing... in the aftermarket blocks, all are modified #1 bearings, drilled for the side oiler passages etc. on 2 and 4 and correct drillings for 3 and 5... but all with the #1 OD diameter).
I won't make that mistake again!
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Only One of the reasons for my love of FE's!
Mario's '67 Daytona 500 winning Fairlane...
http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/Bselby1/media/image_zps4e7736c4.jpg.html
Autograph day in Dartmouth NS ;D
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/PICT0022.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/PICT0022.jpg.html)
What the heck was Mario Andretti doing in Dartmouth NS on a perfect summer day?
Checking out my Lane. He was sitting in having a good look at it, even had the hood up. ;D
Me thinks he likes Fairlanes. ::)
He's a very nice guy. Very down to earth.
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You posted
I'm pretty fond of the Pond blocks, especially for what you get for the price for an aluminum block. The aluminum blocks are really light, I can pick them up with the caps on them and pack them around wherever I need to. They come needing all machine work, but that's kinda par for the course. I don't know of any aftermarket blocks that don't need touched in almost every facet. My plan of attack is to usually check the plug behind the distributor, and they usually need tapped deeper. I pop the cam bearings in with some green Loctite, using Durabond bearings. The casting behind the front cam bearing needs clearanced for the distributor gear, and depending on which bearing you use, it will need clearanced too. The oil pump hole needs a little work, so that usually gets a little die grinder work. I also tap the dipstick hole for a plug.
In regards to the cam bearings is the Loc-tite because its an aluminum block or do you do that as standard operating procedure
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I use it on all aluminum blocks.
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The expansion rate of aluminum is higher than that of the cam bearing base metal. I found out the hard, expensive way
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Well, unfortunately, the 352 will not be dyno'd. I picked it up today and in my mind it's more of a liability to the dyno room than anything else. And since it's not my dyno, I would rather not be responsible. :-) The carb was completely full of trash and when I pulled a valve cover, the oil drains were completely full of sludge, as well as everything else under the valve cover....hahaha
With a 1/2" drive ratchet and socket on the balancer bolt, it took all of 2 fingers to turn her over....with the plugs in. I can't imagine this thing would be a barn-burner fresh off the showroom floor, but especially not now.
Was really wanting to have some play time with it, mainly just for curiosity's sake. Just not a prudent decision at this point, so I'll pull it all apart when I get a free moment. Just hope it's standard bore. I can tell it's had gasket swaps, so who knows what I will find.
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Bummer! Too bad you're not closer, I'd dyno that thing for you. Despite its condition, it would still be fun to do one pull...
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Yeah, I'm bummed. Ive been looking more forward to dynoing this 352 than anything else lately....just for the pure stupidity of it...ROFL
Maybe if I had more time to qualify it, but at this point, it just looks like too much trouble.
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We've run some pretty tired stuff a couple times. Its fun, albeit kinda risky. I'd have let you drive it and just stood back with the camera rollin'
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Isn't it beautiful?
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/C3FF125F-8E75-4980-AD07-C52C6D5F39CB-4109-00000477BEC11723_zpsd4b77e18.jpg)
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Well, I was actually going to give it a shot, but things just keep stacking up against me. Took a piece of all-thread and stabbed it down the oil drains to clear out the junk....pulled the distributor and looked into the valley, didn't look too bad, so I continued on. Took the thermostat housing off and pulled the thermostat out, then put a new gasket on and bolted it back on.
The dyno I use is a Stuska and the way the cart is made, short exhaust manifolds just won't clear the cart. So, I started to remove the manifolds and every single one is frozen....hahaha At this point, I just don't have the spare time to try to bust every bolt loose.
At least I tried...
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(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/shellvalleyowner/CC891730-8E71-4117-B648-77D8B50CC83E-20835-000015C5F4FBE4C3_zps42aef7b5.jpg) (http://s170.photobucket.com/user/shellvalleyowner/media/CC891730-8E71-4117-B648-77D8B50CC83E-20835-000015C5F4FBE4C3_zps42aef7b5.jpg.html)
Got some time to work on my own junk this weekend. Got the heads off the 352, just pulled them without taking the manifolds off....LOL
Lifter bores were mushroomed. Cam had to be coerced to leave its home. Timing chain had a mile of slack in it. Everything appears to be factory. Standard bore, factory cam, appears to have factory chain, etc. Haven't pulled the crank yet, but I would imagine that the bearings are all standard as well.
Need to get it torn the rest of the way down and out of here...
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Keep posting on that 352, looking forward too see what parts you gonna use!
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I will post what I can. It will be getting its own magazine article, so I will have to be secretive about most of it for now. Magazines hate when you give away all the fun stuff before the issue comes out....hahaha
I will say that it's a solid roller motor now, about $700 worth of crank work done, $1100 in pistons alone......fun stuff. :)
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whens the magazine article coming out,, what one? Im playing with my '60 352 4bl motor :) but not to the extent you are (well money thrown into it anyways)
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With a SM intake