FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: v8Dave on March 12, 2023, 04:38:10 PM
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Hello Everyone
What are peoples recommendations as regards to a very good double roller timing chain set for a fe445 stroker.
The 445fe stroker has a billet steel hydraulic roller camshaft and roller lifters if that helps as i know in the past i have been advised stick to the same style materials(billet steel camshaft there for billet steel double roller timing set so the strength of materials used is the same.) I was looking at a coyles timing set however according to some reviews, posted on websites there was a problem with a lot of them not having the degree markings in the correct place from what i have learned. I have then looked at precision oil pumps, and they sell a rollmaster timing chain set with a Ford Torrington Needle Bearing Cam Retainer Plate Kit. I have then looked at just rollmaster double roller timing chains on there own(no torrington needle bearing).
So the question i have is, is it neccessary (do you have to) use a torrington needle bearing set up when you are using a billet steel hydraulic roller camshaft? or can you just buy the normal rollmaster(romac)/coyles ect) billet steel double roller timing sets and use the stock camshaft thrust plate(retaining plate) without going to the torrington needle bearing set up?
And if you can use the stock double roller billet steel timing set recommendations? rollmaster(romac)/coyles/ howards cams ect?
Are there any benifits to going to a torrington needle set up on the thrust plate?
Thank you for any help or advice that you can offer.
Many thanks
Dave
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Use the Cloyes 9-3508X9......the timing dot 180° from where it used to be is absolutely no bearing on anything at all.
Don't need a torrington bearing, but I would advise using a new steel thrust plate.
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Original Ford thrust plate is cast iron.
As Brent said, get a new steel thrust plate if not using the torrington bearing type.
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With a roller cam, there is no taper on the lobes for lifter rotation, so there isn't any significant thrust load on the end plate. If the needle bearings in the thrust plate fail, then your engine will have lots of little loose hard parts inside. No such concern with a standard flat plate.
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Roller cams load the opposite direction, that's why in Chevy/Mopar configurations, you need a button of some sort to push up against the timing cover. Ford was the smart ones who used a cam thrust plate.
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While talking about timing chains.... does anybody sell an FE single roller rather than double roller? There are tons of options for LS engines of course.
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Cloyes 9-3508X9
I'll use a Torrington if a customer really wants it, but I haven't ever seen a benefit, nor have I seen any FE ever make any cam end play if it started out right
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With a roller cam, there is no taper on the lobes for lifter rotation, so there isn't any significant thrust load on the end plate. If the needle bearings in the thrust plate fail, then your engine will have lots of little loose hard parts inside. No such concern with a standard flat plate.
Automatic transmissions are loaded with Torrington bearings and in that application those bearings seldom fail unless the transmission is severely abused. Torrington’s are very reliable. Even with the high thrust loads in an automatic.
That said Torrington bearings for a cam thrust plate seem like overkill for the application.
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Hello Everyone.
Thank you for the information and help as regards a timing chain recommendation. Last question is where would you recommend to purchase a new steel thrust plate for the ford fe.
I saw a nice blue thunder one on ebay for sale however it does not say if its a steel one? Again thank you for your time and help.
Many thanks
Dave
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With a roller cam, there is no taper on the lobes for lifter rotation, so there isn't any significant thrust load on the end plate.
Roller cams load the opposite direction, that's why in Chevy/Mopar configurations, you need a button of some sort to push up against the timing cover. Ford was the smart ones who used a cam thrust plate.
Yes, the camshaft lobe taper does create a thrust value, but for the most part (not completely) this is self-cancelling as there are just as many lobes exhibiting taper to the front as there are those to the rear of the block. In the instances of where there isn't due to valve timing events, this is where the spring and/or button comes to play (and remember early FE's didn't have a thrust plate.) :)
Actually, the major thrust value is imparted to the camshaft due to the resistance of rotation of the oil pump and the drive configuration dictates whether this overriding sum is either to the front as in a Chevy (with a button under the timing cover) or to the rear as in the Ford (in the early FE's the camshaft had a flange that located the rearward movement) and this is evident if you'll notice wear in this relationship most often is between the cam-gear to thrust-plate surfaces, not thrust-plate to camshaft surfaces. ;)
Scott.
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Hello Everyone.
Thanks again all for your help and information. Galaxiex and Brent where would you recommend a purchase/ what brand of a steel fe camshaft thrust plate? I see a blue thunder one listed on ebay.com however it does not say the material its made of? it just mentions about Aircraft etched surface with molybdenum disulfide, i know blue thunder make great products, however just want to be sure what i buy is right for my application(hydraulic steel billet roller camshaft).
Many thanks again for your time.
Kind regards
Dave
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Hello Everyone.
Thanks again all for your help and information. Galaxiex and Brent where would you recommend a purchase/ what brand of a steel fe camshaft thrust plate? I see a blue thunder one listed on ebay.com however it does not say the material its made of? it just mentions about Aircraft etched surface with molybdenum disulfide, i know blue thunder make great products, however just want to be sure what i buy is right for my application(hydraulic steel billet roller camshaft).
Many thanks again for your time.
Kind regards
Dave
I have no experience with that Blue Thunder thrust plate.
You could message the seller and ask what the material is.
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Automatic transmissions are loaded with Torrington bearings and in that application those bearings seldom fail unless the transmission is severely abused. Torrington’s are very reliable. Even with the high thrust loads in an automatic.
That said Torrington bearings for a cam thrust plate seem like overkill for the application.
I run a rollerized C4 in the race car and the Torringtons have been in there at least 8~9 years and lots of hard passes. No problems. Very reliable. But yes - steel-on-steel and if there is good lube there should not be a problem with excessive wear on the cam plate. The cam plate used in the dragster 393C was abused for 3 years with a solid roller and only shows some minor surface wear indications.
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Hello Everyone.
Thanks again all for your help and information. Galaxiex and Brent where would you recommend a purchase/ what brand of a steel fe camshaft thrust plate? I see a blue thunder one listed on ebay.com however it does not say the material its made of? it just mentions about Aircraft etched surface with molybdenum disulfide, i know blue thunder make great products, however just want to be sure what i buy is right for my application(hydraulic steel billet roller camshaft).
Many thanks again for your time.
Kind regards
Dave
As I understand, Doug's are steel. https://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/fe-ford-cam-retainer-plate-kit/ (https://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/fe-ford-cam-retainer-plate-kit/)