FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Joe-JDC on November 02, 2022, 10:30:01 AM
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Just trying to be politically correct on the forum and keep it civil. I just received a manifold to check over and give my findings to the FE forum members. The box does say made in China, but there is not another identifying mark anywhere on the intake: no firing order, no part number, nothing. It does have a couple of machining tabs that are unique but overall looks decent and clean. I am not sure of fitment at this point, but the ports do look closer than some USA made FE intakes. Here are the flow numbers as cast out of the box and pictures. Joe-JDC
1. 299.59
2. 325.33
3. 329.79
4. 298.59
5. 300.82
6. 316.42
7. 316.42
8. 303.05 for an average flow of 313.13 cfm. It should be comparable to an Ed RPM after plenum work and gasket match, etc. The RPM as cast is not very different from these numbers. Joe-JDC
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Thank you Joe for posting the test results.
It appears that the manifold ports are a little larger as cast and more centered than the edelbrock?
Perhaps I am just seeing things.
Anyhow, good to know!
Fitment will be another test.
Cheers
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That's great info, Joe.
Is there any notable differences on 1,3,5,& 8?
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??? The flow numbers are there for you to see the differences in any port flow. I am just posting what it is, as it is. Not prejudiced for or against it. Joe-JDC
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Thanks for info Joe
Are ya gonna fit it to a mill to see how it fits if I may ask ??
Ricky.
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Maybe it is just this particular manifold, but many of the bolt holes seem to be noticably off center in the casting bosses. I am really not a fan of Chinese companies making ripoff copies of North American designed and made products, but if there is any legal recourse, certainly seems that Edelbrock, and others have not been able to stop the counterfitting. But if these are actually going to be readily available, and the Edelbrock originals are not, they will likely sell a bunch of them.
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Just so guys have some practical information
The Chinese intake manifold is $490
The Edelbrock intake manifold is $680 in the new Summit catalog.
I have a great admiration of the Edelbrock company. They have supported the Ford FE platform since its inception. When rumor was that Edelbrock was coming out with a cylinder head for FE's, I raced down to Blair's Speed shop and told Phil Lukens to get me a pair as soon as they're available. After running used up Ford castings for many years I was ready for a brand new cylinder head.
I was not disappointed.
That said, 2 hunnert bucks is enough clams to buy something else you might need for your build.
I'm glad I have a couple of intakes on my junk pile so I don't have to buy one.
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I have had a second chance to look the manifold over, and I found a couple of differences that are significant. The hump is missing in port #1 over the #2 runner, and the port walls are very straight and not angled around the turns like the RPM in places. It has a nice taper from the runner out between the pushrod holes and can be blended very easily to a 1247 gasket size or less. Should be possible to radius the corners like a TFS port very easily. I don't have a RPM here to measure the depth of the plenum. Overall, it looks to be a decent intake manifold. Joe-JDC
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Thanks again Joe.
Looks like the manifold is possibly better than the one it is "copied" from.
Cheers
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Update: I started tweaking the intake this afternoon to see how it will respond, and found a couple of places inside the runners that were porous, but not enough to leak air or fuel. Still overall it is looking promising as a decent manifold for street usage. There is not a heat crossover passage in the manifold. Joe-JDC
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Update: I started tweaking the intake this afternoon to see how it will respond, and found a couple of places inside the runners that were porous, but not enough to leak air or fuel. Still overall it is looking promising as a decent manifold for street usage. There is not a heat crossover passage in the manifold. Joe-JDC
That will be where the issues will lie. They can copy port and runner shapes and maybe even hire someone to make "improvements" but their casting processes will always be suspect. That one may not leak, but the next one may.
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As for me I'd rather spend my two extra hundo employing people working here.
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As for me I'd rather spend my two extra hundo employing people working here.
My sentiment too. Any savings is likely to be used up trying to seal it, unless you get lucky. For the record, I've never been that lucky.
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As for me I'd rather spend my two extra hundo employing people working here.
And to support guys who are not just blindingly copying products in order to make a sale, but to support guys who have knowledge and interest in the hobby.
I'm working on an aftermarket FE block and the main caps are numbered/scribed backwards...i.e. front cap was #5, rear cap was #1. Not a big deal in any way, but you can tell the guys who were working on it were not familiar with basic engine building principles/nomenclature.
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For the record, the pitting that I see can probably be cleaned up if someone were to port the manifold to full gasket size or even more for all out performance. I worked each port so that it only flowed up to 335 cfm average, so each port is nearly identical in flow and size which is a lot smaller than the 1457 gasket size. It should make any street engine super responsive with a head than flows 280-310 cfm. Reaching 335 cfm only took about 5 hours work total including flow bench time between reworking ports. Joe-JDC
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There was a guy at SEMA last week selling these at 350 a pop when bought in volume. The quailty looked very good.
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[quote author=blykins link
And to support guys who are not just blindingly copying products in order to make a sale, but to support guys who have knowledge and interest in the hobby.
I'm working on an aftermarket FE block and the main caps are numbered/scribed backwards...i.e. front cap was #5, rear cap was #1. Not a big deal in any way, but you can tell the guys who were working on it were not familiar with basic engine building principles/nomenclature.
[/quote]
Lol , just how many employee's at Edelbrock poring molten do you think know basic engine principals ? lol , besides looks like Joe has confirmed it's not a copy of a Ebrock after all
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They sure did look good and the timing cover and water pump as well.
Was that you I met who showed me the picture of his white 61 Starliner pulling the wheels? I had my red FE Reunion shirt on which acted as a magnet for FE guys. Met one from Brazil, one from Czech Republic!
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(https://i.postimg.cc/qqWBM61y/IMG-3554.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/Wpy17xsz/IMG-3555.jpg)
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I paid appx $1500 more for a lift for my shop for a USA made lift.
Not to be political, but from a quality issue
Tim MCAmis Rant
https://youtu.be/qMxdKcloRBQ
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They sure did look good and the timing cover and water pump as well.
Was that you I met who showed me the picture of his white 61 Starliner pulling the wheels? I had my red FE Reunion shirt on which acted as a magnet for FE guys. Met one from Brazil, one from Czech Republic!
Tom your pics are from the guy I talked to about the pricing.
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I grabbed one of the catalogs and just read through it. I don't see the intake in it and the only Ford ones they show are for 302 and 351W and appear to be Weiand copies.. Looks like perhaps another Speedmaster/ProComp offshoot. They also had a billet distributor for a Yblock, tach drive for 55-57 Tbirds. Maybe there's a bigger market than I know of?
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I have the TSP tach drive distributor in my 345Y Block that I installed in my '55 Thunderbird, and so far it has performed flawlessly. I have sixteen dyno pulls, several miles on the engine since installation in the car. Joe-JDC
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That T-Bird is a clean machine Joe! I noticed the summit carb too.
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TSP is a marketing group, under the AAM group umbrella. AAM stands for automotive Accessory marketing, which represents companies with traditional names like Hedman headers. These are just marketing groups with warehouses, they have no manufacturing, none. Most all their products are manufactured in China, and Taiwan, a few in Vietnam.
TSP has a warehouse in California. If they are able to work a deal, with whomever is producing a part, and feel they can make some money, selling the part, they invest, and add to their product line.
Joe that is a nice Tbird, hope you are enjoying retirement.
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That T-Bird is a clean machine Joe! I noticed the summit carb too.
I got tired of having to fill the carburetor every few days to start the Tbird. The Summit carb is a 750VS, and it has performed perfectly so far, even after sitting for a couple of weeks. I did a dyno test of several carbs, and the Summit was very close to the Holley in performance. The bad thing is the stock Thunderbird aircleaner will not work with the Summit carb due to the fuel linlet location on the top of the carb. Joe-JDC
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Comment FWIW - Speedmaster et al had a 351C 4V funnelweb knockoff listed for several years. There's a variation still in the list along with the "split" intake. Since there wasn't - at the time about 4 years ago - other options, I decided to try and purchase one via Jegs. After a year of waiting I cancelled the order. Seems like they run a batch of something and when it's gone, not much else happens later. The split intake is listed as out of stock and has been for a while. So if you think you want one of these lower volume type intakes, better buy it while they are sitting around.
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Just got my hands on one of the new Edelbrock RPM intake manifolds, and was a bit surprised with the flow figures. The lowest port flowed 280 cfm, and the best 325, but the average flow came in at 300 cfm. The offshore copy averaged 313 out of the box. I flowed a new M-9424-D302 SBF intake just before the RPM, and the D302 flowed 305 cfm average. This is a bit discouraging if it is a trend. The RPMs from several years ago would average ~315-317 cfm out of the box, and the Victor Jr 302 would average 315 cfm(D302 is copy for Ford Motorsports). I did calibrate the Flow Bench last month, and it is correct to my data plate. The weather is nearly perfect for flowing with low humidity and 71* in the shop. Joe-JDC
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Sorry if it's been mentioned, but is this the same one Jegs is selling? https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/513094/10002/-1 (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/513094/10002/-1)
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Yes, Jegs has added this manifold to their line.
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The RPM responded very well to porting which is a plus. I opened it up but left it a bit smaller than the MR G 202 or Fel Pro 1247 MR size to match a set of TFS heads, and it picked up 77 cfm average flow. It now flows 377 cfm which should be nearly perfect for a TFS head on a street and strip style engine. If I were to port the manifold to the CJ size ports, then it would be near 390 cfm average. It was easier to pick the flow up than the offshore manifold. There are subtle differences, but it is a "copy" of the RPM. Joe-JDC