FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fryedaddy on June 10, 2022, 02:22:17 PM
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i just bought my papaws 73 f250 back.i sold it 40 years ago.problem is the 360 got some moisture in the carb and its been sitting for a few years too.when i got it i could not turn the engine with a powerhandle on the crank bolt.i took the plugs out and sprayed wd40 in each cyl.still could not move it.i took the belts off too,no luck.i took the valvecovers off and rockers off,still could not turn it over.i peckked on the valves with a rubber hammer.they were not stuck.the guy said it was not stuck the last time he tried it 3 years ago.i put a battery on it and thought i would bump the starter 1 time and see what happens.i hit the starter and i looked at the engine and i saw my powerhandle move.its free and it spins.now what,should i put it back together and try to start it?it only has 78,000 miles on it.
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At this point what do you have to loose? Make sure it's go oil in it, put some ATF in the cylinders crank it until you get oil pressure, plugs back in and see what happens.
Likely it will run but will probably use some oil. I don't think you'll hurt it worse just getting it started, if it's hurt bad you'll know fairly quick, but really, the damage was done when it got the water in it.
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the guy who had it said it never used a drop of oil the whole time he had it.the oil in it is very clean too.
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what is the absolute best thing you can spray-put in the sparkplug holes to loosen the assembly?thanks Rusty,i have heard of using tran fluid.
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]Since You Dont know the amount of rust or damage it caused to the cylinders, it would make more sense to pull it and at least do a minor rebuild. starting it now, could damage the block, and/or pistons. Truthfully, after being stuck, it is never going to run right untill the rusty cylinders are reconditioned anyway, so why tear it up, or damage potentially re usable parts?. Chances are, whatever valve(s) that were open have rust issues, and wont seal properly, or for very long. If it is the original to the truck block, I, personally wouldnt want to damage it. There are a lot of stroker kits being installed in otherwise decent 390s, therefore a bunch of 390 cranks and rods available. Have it bored to a 390, and put it back together. If you can find a known good 390 or 428 camshaft and lifters, they would add some zip to it as well. The 73-76 FE engines were performance slugs, due to emission changes to cams and cam timing chamges, So, even a rebuild with earlier, and fresh parts will leave a grin on Your face every time you hit the throttle. Again, try and resist the urge to fire it up and possibly ruin the block, and even the stock pistons, if they can be cleaned and re rung, at the veryminimum. No reason to spend a fortune on it, unless you want to, but, preserving it, and the accomplishment you will feel when its reconditioned, are priceless.
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i thought the 360 and 390 had the same bore so how could i bore it out to a 390? i have other engines i could put in the truck,i was just wandering if i could get it running the way it is.thanks for your opinion Woody.anyone else want to comment on what to do.i looked in the plug holes with a bore scope and i did not see any rust,the pistons were all blackish looking on top.
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FWIW. I have a 63 352 that sat un-turned for 41 years. It was seized. Squirted Kroil in all cyl. and eventually it came free. I then juiced the cyl, with atf and turned it over by hand and then with the starter, that's it. It took a tune-up, rebuilt carb and a new fuel pump. It's been running perfect for two years. I did change oil in it and added a can of Rislone before starting it, ran it a 100 miles and changed it again. I say fire it up and then see how it does.
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Some years ago, I bought an Austin Healey 3000 that was somewhat in pieces. The trans was out and laying across the seats. The front suspension was all sitting in cardboard boxes. I had to re-assemble the front to be able to move it.
I had a guy go through the trans and re-install it. Then found the motor was frozen. I know for a fact that it was running before the car was taken apart. I had the garage guy give me a push down a side street, and about 25-30 MPH back off and I dumped the clutch in second.
The first time the back tires dragged so I stopped, put some starting fluid in the carbs and we did it again. It started, and to make a long story short it became a daily driver for several years.
If it has to be rebuilt, so be it. You might as well try to get it started.
KS
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If it has to be rebuilt, so be it. You might as well try to get it started.
KS
Indeed. The damage -if any- is already done so might as well try. I would use Marvel Mystery Oil which is a very light oil that can get behind the rings as well as between the rings and wall.
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I got a method kinda to this. I always spray the cylinders down with kroil or atf. Take the rockers off and hit all of the serval times to make sure they are not stuck. Prime the oil pump . Then rebuild or swap the carb to a known "good" carb. Change out the fuel pump to a new one. Verify said fuel. Check the distributor for fire, get that all sorted. Then hit it, should fire right up if everything is correct. The last one i did like this was my old 684 door galaxie i drove every where. It had set since 82, and once i did all that ran like a Swiss watch. That motor was kinda of slugged up , so before i changed the oil i poured about a pint of deisel fuel in with the oil to cut the sludge out. Once i had it running good i tuned it all up and , changed the oil and all the filters and water pump and timing chain. That is a big deal to get ride of the oil nylon gear if its still there. Thanks Lance
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great advice,Mr Kidd,that sounds like about what im doing.i have high hopes for this truck.me and my papaw put 39,000 miles on it from 73-84,and i sold it,and he put 39,000 more on it from 84-2017.he swore it never used a drop of oil the whole time he had it.it has not been tagged for over 10 years but he said he moved 4 or 5 years ago and he drove the truck to his new location and parked it.every little thing works from the dash lights headlights to the tail lights.inside is stunning for original condition.no rips in the seat,floor mat is perfect,and even the [TRUCKIN] floor mats i put in it years ago were still in it too.1 small dent on top of the bed rail,other than that some peeled paint and a surface rust spot or too.he dont know where it came from but he threw in a pass side door with the truck.it is a perfect door no rust or dents,even the rubber around the vent and side glass are perfect.perfect glass, nice panel and arm rest too. its been in a garage for over 30 years.he might as well just gave me the truck,i only gave 500 for it and i believe the extra door will bring that. i put atf in the cylinders and let it sit a day or two.i could not get it to move at the crank bolt.i tried bumping the starter and it moved 1/4 inch or so.i bumped it several more times and thats all it would move was 1/4 inch at a time.next day i tried putting pressure on the crank bolt with my power handle while tapping the solenoid with a screw driver and it started moving an inch or two at a time.then all the sudden it moved about a quarter of a turn,so i reached inside and turned the key and it started spinning freely and spitting trans fluid out the plug holes.ITS FREE
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I had the same thing happen to a forklift I bought. Bought it with supposedly no spark, been sitting. Put a battery in it, hit the key and it make about 200* and stopped. Was stuck so bad after that I ended up having to take the rod caps off 3 &4 and beat the pistons back to TDC. ATF and kerosene cleaned up the crap, bolted it all back together and it's been running ever since. It is a flathead, so it isn't picky, but I never thought it'd last this long being stuck so bad.
Fire it up, at least it'll run and drive and give you a chance to asses everything and decide what to do next. Besides cleaning up the mess from soaking the cylinders!
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If you have access to a bore scope take a look (Some places will rent them)
This can give you a good visual of what is happening inside the engine.
Look in each cylinder as you turn the crank by hand.
Look in the lifter valley too.
Take a look at the underside of the intake and the valley too.
This area often gets rusted but does not cause trouble until oil starts flowing well enough to wash things down.
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i have been using my bore scope everywhere i can.so far the only rust i have seen was under the pass side valve cover,near number 4 cylinder,very minimal.number 4 piston and cyl walls looked good through the plug hole with my scope.i took the carb off.it looks good and the intake was clean under the carb. i cleaned and oiled my rockers and put them back on. im going to put new plugs in it,change oil,fresh gas to the carb,check points.and if everything goes well im going to see if it will run.
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One thing that is often overlooked in resurrecting an engine is the distributor. The bushings and shaft go dry and there is no forced oiling. It takes a while for the oil to travel its way up to the bushings. In that time, the shaft can seize on the housing. You can prevent this by removing the distributor and giving it some life giving oil down the shaft to the bushings.
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UPDATE,i tried firing it up today.it would not start.i checked for a spark at the plugs,no fire.it is a stock 73 360.what next?
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What ignition system?
Voltage present at coil?
No spark should be reasonably easy to figure out.
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Double check the rotor is installed, and while the cap is off, crank it over and make sure the rotor turns (timing chain, etc.).
Pat
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stock points dist. i touched a screw driver to the points,i forgot i had the key on and it sparked at the points.yes its turning the dist.
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truck has been sitting for 10 or 12 years.tune up wise all i did was plugs,good gas,and sanded the points.it was running when parked years ago.oh yea i changed the oil too.
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If there is spark, across the points, there will be fire at the coil, if it and the coil wire are good, with clean contacts. Replace the coil.
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I'd also check the rotor is decent and the cap still has the button in it.
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the rotor looks ok and the button in the cap looks almost new.there is just no spark getting to the plugs
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capacitor?
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Make sure the wire between the points and the negative terminal of the coil isn't frayed and grounding to something, possibly inside the distributor. Same for the short wire on the condenser and its terminal. Not making contact with the distributor body.
edit: Also, are the points closing all the way, and about .016" when open?
Pat
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file the points. change the condenser.
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i changed plug wires,coil,and condenser.i checked a couple plugs for fire-NONE.i love these old fe engines.but wiring,volts,ohms,all that stuff i do not understand.
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i took the coil off my hotrod and put it on the 360 and still no fire to the plugs
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Do you have a volt/ohm meter ?
They are quite cheap these days and are an invaluable tool for diagnosis.
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If you are getting power to the dizzy and coil, and it is correct....meaning somehow the power simply is not traveling to the plug, then I would verify the rotor and cap are correct for the application, and eliminate that rotating "switch" of power. as the cause. I would also verify the timing of the rotor related to the cap, or the trigger to the rotor. Anything that would make power move, but not at the correct point in time and hence not making it to the plugs. You may even verify the the rotor turns when the starter is keyed(making sure the cam and dizzy gears are doing their thing). Easy enough to make sure the engine ground to frame is good while you are there as well. I doubt all 8 plugs and/or wires are bad.
You are getting there, just step back and pause and don't get frustrated.
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Could be a broken coil secondary. You can "ohm" the secondary wires. It can vary by wire type, but the rule of thumb is from 2,000 to 5,000ohms per foot. If the points spark, there is current in the primary system. You might also check the coil's resistance. Possible the terminal is broken.
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my son brought his volt meter over today.im getting power to the coil and the coil is good but its losing everything through the points and ground in the dist.i just bought new points and they are backwards.DOES THAT MATTER. the contact is on the opposite end than the ones in the dist.they look the same other than being backwards.WILL THEY WORK or did they give me the wrong points.
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FWIW, when I went off to college many years ago, I took my Craftsman 6 drawer box with me and became the go-to guy that didn't charge as much as the professional garages in town to do repairs. A very humbling experience one afternoon was doing a tune-up on a big Chrysler that was the family car for the Head of Department for one of schools there and his wife who was Head of another department.
After I replaced everything, I had no spark at the plugs. It took me better than an hour of removing and replacing before I realized that I had carefully thrown all the replaced parts in the junk and had had the new cap off and on the diz several times, I'd set the new rotot off to one side and had not once put it in place before snapping the cap down. Installing it was all it took. ;D :( :o :)
KS
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1964Fastback, you were right,after my son checked everything with his meter.the ground wire from the dist to the coil showed bad,i replaced it,put in new points,condenser rotor button.put the cap back on and gave it a try.IT FIRED UP INSTANTLY.it has an exhaust leak,but thats no biggie.
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after i squirted gas in the carb about 5 times the fuel pump finally started, the 360 started idling.oil pressure is good,it dont smoke,exhaust leak is not bad.thanks for all the help everyone,IM HAPPY
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Fantastic!
I knew you would get this figured out.
The ohm/volt meters are wonderful things - and important to have in the tool box.
Glad you persisted!
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ok heres where im at now.engine runs smooth with my dripper bottle feeding the carb,but it dies as soon as you turn the dripper off.im getting fuel to the 2bbl carb because i was going to take the fuel line loose from the carb and gas went everywhere,fuel pump is working but squirters are not squirting any fuel.bad accelerator pump or clog or something?
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Those 2 barrels are easy to take apart and inspect/clean/re-gasket.
Rebuild kit should still be available.
Things like accelerator pump rubber parts dry out. Gaskets shrink.
Inside is likely full of crap.
like I mentioned - easy carb to open up and inspect and clean.
Good luck.
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i guess i will get a kit for it.i hope its like the rest of the truck.this truck was took care of till parked.other than dust and mold where it sat it is very clean.i drained the tank,it was pretty clean other than the smell of old gas.i cant believe this 360 dont smoke and when its idling the engine is so still you cant see it moving.