FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: machoneman on June 21, 2011, 11:29:34 AM
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Seems like we've been here before. The benefits of the plastic intake design though are many...wonder how hard it would be, using the old PSE aluminum base, to cast-up a composite intake using much more modern 351C intakes (CHI, Trickflow etc.) with the finished aluminum version as a mold pattern? Maybe you were right Jay, a whole new set of FE intake comparos may be in the offing.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/1107phr_afr_titan_series_intake_manifolds/index.html
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LOL hearing of the inherent aging problems with all the new FANG-led under hood plastics from radiator tanks, rocker covers to intake manifolds all failing just scares the shit out of me. This week I was with a top NMRA racer that runs a very stock MUSTANG and drives all over the country. He does not like to open the hood between rounds because it makes for inconsistency...........the byproduct is all that trapped under hood "race heat" takes a toll on plastic parts from thermostat housings to electrical connectors.
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I'm curious to know exactly what kind of plastic or polymer materials are used in these intakes. I have some experience with polyester and epoxy molds and plugs, to make fiberglass or carbon fiber reinforced finished parts, and I wonder if they are similar to what I've already used.
I can definitely see the weight and heat transmission benefits of a plastic intake. Bottom line though is that aluminum would be faster and cheaper to make a manifold, plus there wouldn't be any question about longevity.
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It seems that either BASF's Ultramid polymer or DuPont's Nylon #66 get mentioned the most.
http://www.automotive.basf.com/p02/Automotive/en_GB/portal/show-content_powertrain_chassis/content/Our_solutions/Powertrain_and_Chassis/Air_circulation_system/Air_circulation_system
http://home.comcast.net/~roadska/nylon66.pdf
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I know the PSE base made it easy to use a 351c intake but there still is some port mismatch and change in direction of the ports. It would be cool if a new base was made with tops that could be changed from dual plane single 4, single plain 4, dual and single plane 2x4 that were specific to the fe. I know it would cost more but it would work better I think.
Also the new 787 Dreamliners are about 80% composite's so there has to be some longevity to them. Scott
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"new 787 Dreamliners are about 80% composite's so there has to be some longevity"
Those composites in a plane can be everything from structural members, interior pannels, seats frames, doors, ducting, tanks, toilet seats to exterior panels etc
"Composite" covers an enormous spectrum, where as automotive intakes are a small segment but that specific composite must handle fuel/vapor, hot water/antifreeze, heat/cold, be rigid enough to seal gaskets etc. Obviously with the failures of every blasted marks plastic intakes from BMW to Volvo it is no cake-walk.
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I forgot that I had some pictures of a composite FE intake (http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/cyclonescott/folder1384.jpg) (http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/cyclonescott/folder1389.jpg) (http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/cyclonescott/folder1390.jpg) (http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq290/cyclonescott/folder1379.jpg)
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Nice piece. What was it run on and how well did it do?
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That is a good looking setup. The upper is carbon fiber, which is a composite of course but not the same kind of material used in the other composite intakes we've been discussing in this thread. The carbon fiber parts use carbon fiber cloth and an epoxy resin. I actually have a lot of experience with carbon fiber cloth and epoxy resin from my model airplane days, and if I thought that I could build the whole manifold using that technique it wouldn't be to daunting. I wonder if the thick flanges at the base of the upper are also carbon fiber construction? Kind of hard to tell from the photos...
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This intake was for sale on the fordfe site a few years ago. I think it was on a nostalgia super stocker fairlane. To me it looks like the thick flanges on the upper manifolds are also carbon fiber. I wish I could get some of the engineers at work to do some modeling work for me on some of these. I take my first composite class next weekend so maybe I will learn some more on how to put something like this together. Scott
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As some of you know, I'm in process of modifying a four litre Jaguar engine for my Lincoln LS Maxton top speed car. The new engine will make use of a pair of turbos; therefore the intake manifold---composite from the factory---will be subjected to forces that almost might be considered as the opposite of the original design.
Tony Gentilozzi, who's head of the engine program at RSR, the factory race shop for Jaguar, is of the opinion that the factory manifold is max'd out at around ten pounds of boost, and is likely to flex and leak, or perhaps have a catastrophic failure at much beyond that figure. RSR went to the use of the blower manifold from the Aston Martin, which is a cast aluminium piece. I'm going to try to use the factory Jag piece first, since the A-M manifold is rather complicated to come by and A-M is VERY proud of them. ($$$$)
I'm not concerned about the non-heating of the incoming charge factor, because I'll be spraying methanol when the engine is in boost
We shall see what we shall see!
KS