FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: motorheadted on February 22, 2022, 10:18:01 AM
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Can't get tranny installed the last half inch (probably pilot shaft) no matter how much I move it around. I have the clutch working, and last time just pushing the clutch in was enough to let it slide in that last little bit. But this time that doesn't help.
Anyone have any tricks/tips ?
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Had this happen years ago myself. Went to the hardware store and bought (4) 7/16-14 bolts about 4" long. Screwed them in the bell holes with about 1" of threads exposed. This ensures that the tranny is close to where it needs to go to slip in. It will also show how much gap there is between the tranny and bell on all four corners and is holding the weight. Grab the tailshaft and wiggle while pushing forward and it should slip right on in. Another time I got frustrated and called it a day. Next morning crawled under the car, grabbed the tailshaft and it slid right in - go figure. A two or three beer break would probably work also.
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is this something thats already been together and you are just renewing everything or do you need to be measuring input shaft to crankshaft distance or spline to disc depth.
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Usually when I know the input shaft is through the throw out bearing. I will hook up a come-along to my fork and somewhere on the rear axle, frame or hook the other end onto my lift and actuate the clutch. It loosens up the t/o bearing and allows you to push the transmission home. I've fought with the "last half inch" too many times. As I get older I work smarter, not harder. I also have the studs mentioned that I install to align and guide the trans.
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X2 on what Stangman said.
I have seen small block length input splines,( on a 1-3/8” shaft), get too close too the pilot bushing or an inordinately long bearing retainer collar get too close to the disc hub. If none of those have been changed/different than the last iteration and the bell has not been changed I believe you will win out.
You can also do a search on this subject that I started when encountering the same problem a few years back. Search for “ losing my mind soon”, lol.
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I've done this many times before, but this time nothing worked. I had 8" of threaded rod at all 4 corners, and it would always go in easily. I happened to look into the gap with a mirror and flashlite and saw metal. It was the input shaft support housing, the round cast base, which just fits the I.D. of the bell that was hanging up. put bolts in the open 4 holes and slowly cranked them in.
Have lots more to put back together, so will be a few days before I can start it. I'll post results.
Ted
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Ted, b/4 you start her up, have someone push the clutch in while underneath you see that the driveshaft spins freely, meaning the disc of course fully disengages. BTDT!
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Over the years, I have done hundreds of clutch jobs, FWD,RWD, 4x4 and AWD, and I have never had to use the transmission bolts to "pull" the transmission into the bellhousing, provided the clutch disc is properly aligned. I have seen far too many Muncies, T5s, and even the occasional Toploader that had one or more mounting ears broken off from this practice. I rarely use those cheap plastic clutch aligning tools that come with many clutch kits, they are just too sloppy fitting. I have a good steel universal alignment tool, but for my Toploader/Jerico/GForce, T5 stuff, I have old factory input shafts that I much prefer. Even if the transmission case doesn`t get damaged, by using the bolts to force the transmission into place, chances are the clutch may chatter, due to bending or distorting the disc. If everything is aligned correctly, the transmission should slide in all the way with no force.
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Agree Rory. It should never take bolts to pull it in. I've seen and used plenty of old toploaders with one ear broken off from previous owners.
I don't use the plastic alignment tools either. Way too sloppy. On a typical Long style clutch I use my fingers to check for disc alignment as I snug the plate down. Just run it around the edge of pressure ring. The disc should be equal all around.
I do have a couple broken inputs I use for alignment, but I always recheck the disc/pressure plate also. I also wiggle the alignment shaft and recheck "Fit" after plate is tightened. It should freely slide in/out. If you let the disc hang on the alignment tool, it will sag and not be on center.
I've had good days and bad getting a transmission seated. Sometimes you just have to walk away for a minute and regroup. There are times it falls in without looking.
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Only time I had a real head scratcher is when someone put dowel pins in the block that were too long.
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X3 with Rory and Larry Ive done hundreds of clutch jobs and rarely use an alignment tool and never needed to pull in a tranny. somethings stopping it from going in
go over everything slowly and with a good eye. You could put alittle lithium grease on splines and slide it in as far as it will go and see were you are on the splines. Leave the throwout bearing out just for that test if it goes in now you know its something to do with bearing. Put some lithium on input snout also. Also silly question make sure disc is not flipped the wrong way, the splined
part of the disc is higher on one side.
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Coincidentally I had a problem installing my Revision 4 Jerico today. It would go in as far as the bearing retainer collar and that was it. I pulled it back on the the two lower 7/16 x 14 pins and turned the input yoke to move the input shaft a little to see if that would help but no dice on getting trans flush. WTF?
Better take a little look around and see if I can find the interference. Get around to the drivers side and I see the lower of the two clutch release fork fulcrum nuts is interfering with the trans case! What kind of nonsense is this? Rotated the trans slightly and it went flush easily. Of course now I have to relieve a little of the shoulder that is above the lower mounting ear to be able to rotate trans into correct position. Any of you Jerico guys ever run into this?
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As soon as I began using trans, other than TL, I realized the interference you described could become a problem. I chose to reverse the install of the bolts; heads on the outside of the bell. Using countersunk machining into the flat surface of the bell along with the appropriate screws completely eliminates the future possibility of interference, regardless of whose case design you utilize.
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I like that fix. For the time being the trans is going to get a shave.
Thanks.
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If there is concern of a problem I would put the transmission in neutral, ask someone to push in on the clutch and see if you can turn the disc by pushing on the edge with a screw driver before starting.
If it does not spin easily you may be overloading the pilot bearing or something in the transmission. Take it apart before you ruin it.
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What can happen some times is when using a roller pilot bearing, a very slight bellhousing misalignment will not allow the trans to pilot. Roller bearings fit tighter than bushings and require the bellhousing to be indexed. Not that it is an absolute you will have a problem if you don't index the bell, but it is common enough to pay attention to if you are having a locating issue and using a roller pilot bearing. If the bellhousing is not aligned to where you can glide the trans into position and you manage to get the input piloted into the bearing, you will side load the bearing and it will eventually fail.
It is too late in this instance, but what I do when I have parts that are not familiar to one another is that I fit everything up and take nothing for granted. When replacing the pilot bushing, I first slide it onto the input to see if it fits correctly. I put the throwout bearing on the collar to see if it moves smoothly in all directions. I put the clutch disc on the input to see if it rides smoothly on the shaft. For new trans and bellhousing, I fit the bellhousing to the trans to make sure the collar slides into the bellhousing and that the bellhousing actually fits flush on the block. A lot of times, you encounter fit issues as you're assembling things and you can easily make corrections, but it just wastes time and is frustrating when you have to pull things down as you're motivated toward assembly.
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If you drove a new bronze pilot bushing in that may be your problem. Have had several that the bushing would fit the pilot shaft until you drove it into the crank.
Not sure but I suspect poor machining or material. A complete bitch to get them back out. Steve