FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: dozz302 on October 27, 2021, 06:10:37 PM
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Hello, I might put together a tunnelport motor and if I did I would put the best steel or other connecting rod money can buy it it. So looking for info on that. Motor would not make more than 600HP but just the same I would use the best possible rod so I wouldn't have to worry about RPM. Too large of an investment. Thanks
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There are more expensive rods but 600 HP or less the Scat H beam is plenty. I believe they are good to around 750.
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I think you actually want to ask: What is the best rod for my application?
Super and ultra cars such as a Bugatti or Ferrari or Koenigsegg often use rods made from titanium. The manufacturers believe that makes the best sense for their purpose. My own current project will carry aluminum rods made by GRP. My intention is to put together an engine that will run at insane RPMs, under exceptional boost levels, on a mix of methanol and nitrous oxide. All else is subordinate to those parameters.
The first TP I put together was in 1968. The last one was more than ten years ago, so I've been there a few times. If I were doing it now, within the limits you've set above, I'd use a good steel aftermarket piece. The exact budget you're working with and other factors you've not mentioned would tie into the ultimate choice. :)
KS
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Based on your question, Carrillo is the first name that came to mind.
They have been the leader in HP rod technology for 50 years, or more. NASCAR teams still use them and I would say, that is the gold standard.
Other rod makers may have a equal product but, there is no doubt when it comes to rods, if it's Carrillo.
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Pankl, Carrillo, Callies, Oliver, etc. There are quite a few that I would reach for. I prefer Oliver in my real high end stuff.
As mentioned, almost any rod would be sufficient for your build though. I use a lot of K1 or Molnar rods in my FE stuff (+/- 7500 rpm) and to be honest, a Scat I-beam would probably handle almost anything that a Tunnel Port would throw at it.
The biggest concern is what rod journal you have. If it's an FE rod journal, you're gonna have a limited selection and I would choose Molnar. For a BBC rod journal, the options really open up, but I don't see the need in paying $1500-2000 for a set of overkill rods.
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We have had good experiences and generally use Crower rods on things we want to last; and they have the capacity to manufacture a billet steel rod in nearly any dimension one wishes, one just has to wait for it though. :)
Scott
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I agree that Pankl, Carrillo, Callies, and Oliver are the best choices when we want a really good, no excuses steel rod. The variance in big end bore on my Oliver's was less than 0.0001 inch from rod to rod. I was very impressed
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I would add that you might want to educate yourself about various rod bolts offered. And use bolt stretch method when torquing.
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Pankl, Carrillo, Callies, Oliver, etc. There are quite a few that I would reach for. I prefer Oliver in my real high end stuff.
As mentioned, almost any rod would be sufficient for your build though. I use a lot of K1 or Molnar rods in my FE stuff (+/- 7500 rpm) and to be honest, a Scat I-beam would probably handle almost anything that a Tunnel Port would throw at it.
The biggest concern is what rod journal you have. If it's an FE rod journal, you're gonna have a limited selection and I would choose Molnar. For a BBC rod journal, the options really open up, but I don't see the need in paying $1500-2000 for a set of overkill rods.
+1 on Molnar. Tom was the metallurgist and engineer at Oliver for a long time. I guess he just decided to open his own business for it. I had Oliver rods in a 2000hp mod motor build. Can't complain when something doesn't break :)
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Pankl, Carrillo, Callies, Oliver, etc. There are quite a few that I would reach for. I prefer Oliver in my real high end stuff.
As mentioned, almost any rod would be sufficient for your build though. I use a lot of K1 or Molnar rods in my FE stuff (+/- 7500 rpm) and to be honest, a Scat I-beam would probably handle almost anything that a Tunnel Port would throw at it.
The biggest concern is what rod journal you have. If it's an FE rod journal, you're gonna have a limited selection and I would choose Molnar. For a BBC rod journal, the options really open up, but I don't see the need in paying $1500-2000 for a set of overkill rods.
that last paragraph is spot on.....
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The biggest concern is what rod journal you have. If it's an FE rod journal, you're gonna have a limited selection and I would choose Molnar. For a BBC rod journal, the options really open up, but I don't see the need in paying $1500-2000 for a set of overkill rods.
So, you don't care for the Crowers for FE journal? Or just the price? I happen to have a set for my 454
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Best connecting rod - no upper limit budget?
Easy - Titanium rod. Period.
Crower makes custom sizes, and I believe CP/Carillo offers Ti rods as well. Arrow in the UK offer Ti rods also - I believe custom as well - unlimited budget.
The only car I ever drove that had Ti rods was an old 906 powered 1969 Porsche 911 lightweight road racer. Much fun after 6000 rpm - 9000 rpm
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The biggest concern is what rod journal you have. If it's an FE rod journal, you're gonna have a limited selection and I would choose Molnar. For a BBC rod journal, the options really open up, but I don't see the need in paying $1500-2000 for a set of overkill rods.
So, you don't care for the Crowers for FE journal? Or just the price? I happen to have a set for my 454
Crower makes a great rod. Already owning them is another plus. But if you have to buy them, I'd buy something else. I think there are more cost effective choices for the FE.
Most of the guys on here are making 550-650 hp. Pretty much any aftermarket rod will suffice there and for an FE-journal rod, the Molnar is much lighter than anything else out there and hard to beat at ~$650.
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Crower makes a great rod. Already owning them is another plus. But if you have to buy them, I'd buy something else. I think there are more cost effective choices for the FE.
Most of the guys on here are making 550-650 hp. Pretty much any aftermarket rod will suffice there and for an FE-journal rod, the Molnar is much lighter than anything else out there and hard to beat at ~$650.
That's exactly what I thought you would say, and I agree completely- nice but very expensive
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............... I would put the best steel or other connecting rod money can buy it it. So looking for info on that. ................. I would use the best possible rod so I wouldn't have to worry..................
So, the O.P. question was................? :-\
Of coarse we must apply a little reasoning to our responses (that leaves NASA out! ::) ), but he didn't ask for the most cost effective rod someone thought would be 'sufficient'.
And I understand, as being in this industry for over forty years, that the customers often wish to be of somewhat thrifty practice, but what does even say an addition one thousand dollars in cost of ones entire project really mean; that versus the damage costs incurred with a rod failure? ???
Scott.
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I read the OP post as well.
That is why I mentioned Titanium offerings.
Lighter reciprocating mass and extremely reliable.
Ti is used for many classes of racing engines unless rules prohibit its use.
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Titanium
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Hello, I might put together a tunnelport motor and if I did I would put the best steel or other connecting rod money can buy it it. So looking for info on that. Motor would not make more than 600HP but just the same I would use the best possible rod so I wouldn't have to worry about RPM. Too large of an investment. Thanks
I would just add similar to others, the rod alone, even if the "best money can buy" doesn't singularly determine RPM.
Piston weight, skirt design, block condition, main design, oiling, crank material and design, balance, etc, all determine if the lower end will stay together. If the money and machining is there for all of those things, it's a very expensive way to get to 600 hp. For 600 HP FEs, a set of Molnars and a light set of Diamonds and a SCAT steel crank are real nice, and even overkill, go up from there to Crower, but without looking at the complete assembly, I am not sure you gain a thing for your money
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I know of a 302 based SBF that's 396 CI and uses Titanium Honda rods. Drives on the street and has run mid 9's. Same engine builder with his C/A 442 CI and near 1000 HP uses a steel rod at 12,500 RPM. There's a reason for that and I'm not smart enough to explain. Most Pro Stock 500 CI engines were also using a steel rod. Really big power cars go with aluminum which has a finite (as in short) lifespan. Listen to Brent and you won't go wrong.
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I found this, over on ST. It may help in making decisions on buying parts:
Pankl Racing Systems owns CP Pistons / Carrillo / Arias. The P in CP is for Pankl. Pankl builds high end rods for NASCAR and Formula 1, and is an OEM supplier for Porsche AG.
Industrial Opportunity Partners owns Edelbrock, Comp Cams (which bought and dissolved parts of Crane Cams - RIP), FAST, TCI, and Russell
Kinderhook industries owns Racing Winning Brands, which owns: JE Pistons, K1 Technologies, MGP Connecting Rods, Rekluse (moto clutches), Wiseco, Manley, Dart, Diamond Pistons, and Trend Performance.
Sentinel Capital Partners owns Drive Performance Brands, which ownes: Flowmaster, B&M Racing and Performance, Hurst Shifters, and Dinan Engineering. In 2018, Sentinel acquired Holley Performance Products, which included: Accel, Hooker, Diablosport, MSD, Superchips, Mr Gasket, APR, Earl's, Racepak, Weiand, Tremec, Mallory, etc.
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Thanks for the help, a lot of great info. I was going to use either a CJ or 427 Steel crank. All stock journals. Just be real strong basic engine with a steel rod that would be the last thing that would break. The motor would probably not see above 7000 RPM. I have heard of Scat for example rods breaking. Carrillo & Oliver are 2 names I have been familiar with for years with an excellent reputation. I am reading all of this though > Thanks