FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: wayne on September 03, 2021, 10:16:55 AM
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Mr Paquet wins ss/a at indy with a real thunder bolt l think its number 30 class wins sure makes hemi and rat look bad. He sure knows how to build a fe.
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Congratulations to Mr. Paquet. Is there anyone today who can compete with him in the FE world, as far as SS goes?
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looks like it was an all Ford Thunderbolt SS/A final
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Still rowing the gears at his young age is awesome. I have seen interviews and he still is having fun and doing what he loves.
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He is as sharp as they get on a high riser. I made some parts for him ten years ago that won some races.
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Also Bill Feist A/S 428 mustang in stock eliminator final
https://youtu.be/Qa9AgLeQLZM
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Coverage is largely Ray Paquet's victory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTqgW0ZUBIE&ab_channel=CompetitionPlusTV
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What tranny is Ray useing these days ?
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How does a 428 Mustang fit into A/S ?
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What tranny is Ray useing these days ?
(https://i.postimg.cc/8cbb9Z5F/9370-CA55-B342-4-F9-C-956-B-E129-E3-F1-F37-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSJX0jYZ)
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How does a 428 Mustang fit into A/S ?
F5 or Edlebrock heads, 3,210lbs
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What tranny is Ray useing these days ?
Jericho hybrid
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How does a 428 Mustang fit into A/S ?
years ago nhra made a rule that you can move up and down a class.. Most of them in the A class run alum head
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Mr Paquet wins ss/a at indy with a real thunder bolt l think its number 30 class wins sure makes hemi and rat look bad. He sure knows how to build a fe.
Ahh, you do know that the HEMI Darts, and Barracuda's have their own class right? The winning car ran 8.30's @ 160mph. The FE isn't going to touch that.
Most stick cars in SS run a Liberty 4 speed. Ray has been running a Jerico with a 5th gear delete. He's had it so long, and it works, so why change?
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Mr Paquet wins ss/a at indy with a real thunder bolt l think its number 30 class wins sure makes hemi and rat look bad. He sure knows how to build a fe.
Ahh, you do know that the HEMI Darts, and Barracuda's have their own class right? The winning car ran 8.30's @ 160mph. The FE isn't going to touch that.
Most stick cars in SS run a Liberty 4 speed. Ray has been running a Jerico with a 5th gear delete. He's had it so long, and it works, so why change?
Only the 1968 Hemi Darts & Cuda’s have their own class, there are other Hemi cars that could run SS/A , correct?
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Mr Paquet wins ss/a at indy with a real thunder bolt l think its number 30 class wins sure makes hemi and rat look bad. He sure knows how to build a fe.
Ahh, you do know that the HEMI Darts, and Barracuda's have their own class right? The winning car ran 8.30's @ 160mph. The FE isn't going to touch that.
Most stick cars in SS run a Liberty 4 speed. Ray has been running a Jerico with a 5th gear delete. He's had it so long, and it works, so why change?
Only the 1968 Hemi Darts & Cuda’s have their own class, there are other Hemi cars that could run SS/A , correct?
The only cars that can bump from SS/B to SS/A, are the 64 light weight B body HEMI's. Most just don't run the class since it cost the same to run a AH car as it does a A or B car.
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Ahh, you do know that the HEMI Darts, and Barracuda's have their own class right? The winning car ran 8.30's @ 160mph. The FE isn't going to touch that.
Makes me wish that Ford would have continued on the Thunderbolt program. Imagine a batch of 100 1968 Fairlane's that had the Tunnelport in them, or even a batch of 68 Mustangs. This certainly would be a contender. "SS/AT"
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Mr Paquet wins ss/a at indy with a real thunder bolt l think its number 30 class wins sure makes hemi and rat look bad. He sure knows how to build a fe.
Ahh, you do know that the HEMI Darts, and Barracuda's have their own class right? The winning car ran 8.30's @ 160mph. The FE isn't going to touch that.
What was the bubble on the AH cars ? trying to figure out where a T Bolt ( Rays) would fall into this class
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Mr Paquet wins ss/a at indy with a real thunder bolt l think its number 30 class wins sure makes hemi and rat look bad. He sure knows how to build a fe.
Ahh, you do know that the HEMI Darts, and Barracuda's have their own class right? The winning car ran 8.30's @ 160mph. The FE isn't going to touch that.
What was the bubble on the AH cars ? trying to figure out where a T Bolt ( Rays) would fall into this class
1 1968 Steve Comella, Webster NY, '68 Baraacuda 8.431 159.04 159.04
2 2198 Stephen Yantus, Charleston SC, '68 Barracuda 8.480 156.64 156.64
3 1058 James Daniels, Yardley PA, '68 Dart 8.503 155.83 155.83
4 1426 Bucky Hess, Bunker Hill WV, '68 Barracuda 8.525 155.78 155.78
5 350 Jim Pancake, Cardington OH, '68 Dart 8.565 155.22 155.22
6 1979 Eldon Baum, Wellsville PA, '68 Dart 8.582 155.13 155.13
7 7405 Eric Bell, Chandler AZ, '64 Barracuda 8.626 152.14 152.14
8 364 Tony DePillo, Dayton OH, '68 Barracuda 8.654 154.26 154.26
9 1945 Gary Wolkwitz, Whitehouse Station NJ, '68 Dart 8.660 152.23 152.23
10 452 Steve Kent, Belle Rose LA, '68 Barracuda 8.679 154.32 154.32
11 7077 Richard Locker, North Royalton OH, '68 Barracu 8.684 151.66 151.66
12 5651 Rick Johnson, Wayzata MN, '68 Baracuda 8.702 152.38 152.38
13 5529 Russ Campbell, Springfield MO, '68 Barracuda 8.730 153.49 153.49
14 403H Stephen Hebert, Westlake LA, '68 Barracuda 8.743 155.17 155.17
15 5748 Marlin Bogner, Kearney NE, '68 Barracuda 8.933 146.81 146.81
16 5122 Jack Peterson, Hartford SD, '68 Barrcuda 9.242 145.27 145.27
17 498Z Benny Kimberly, Springfield LA, '68 Barracuda 11.787 96.58 96.58
18 342 Harold Leiter, Troy OH, '68 Barracuda 12.064 121.23 121.23
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i thought i saw him run a 8.54 that would put him up near the top. He cuts good lights so he might be able to squeek up alittle
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The Hemi's are on a whole different level. NHRA looks the other way on engine modifications that put the cost out of reach for most people.
Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET---Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT----ET---Speed
1968 Steve Comella 1058 James Daniels
E5 ****WINNER**** 0.079 8.364 161.17 0.040 8.423 158.02
Prior rounds:
E4 (S Yantus ) 0.001 8.386 160.59 -0.068 8.413 158.35
E3 (B Hess ) 0.069 8.525 158.71 (J Pancake ) 0.050 8.400 158.89
E2 (Bye ) 0.054 8.588 157.19 (E Bell ) 0.077 8.412 158.09
E1 (S Kent ) 0.045 8.399 161.21 (R Johnson ) 0.044 8.380 159.38
Qualified: #1 8.431 159.04 #3 8.503 155.83
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The Hemi's are on a whole different level. NHRA looks the other way on engine modifications that put the cost out of reach for most people.
Super Stock in general is on a whole different level than Stock, or your average bracket car. If you think Ray's FE is closer to stock, than a AH HEMI, you are dead wrong.
Don't get me wrong, what Ray has done is nothing short of amazing, and he is one of the nicest guy's you could ever meet.
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Super Stock in general is on a whole different level than Stock, or your average bracket car. ...
I am reminded of a quote from an SS racer: (paraphrasing) A top fuel hemi head is more like an original 426 hemi head than is a super stock hemi head.
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(https://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2008/01/mopp_0801_09-super_stock_hemi_engine_build-.jpg)
(https://www.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2008/01/mopp_0801_10-super_stock_hemi_engine_build-.jpg?fit=around%7C770:481.25)
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(https://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2008/01/mopp_0801_09-super_stock_hemi_engine_build-.jpg)
(https://www.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2008/01/mopp_0801_10-super_stock_hemi_engine_build-.jpg?fit=around%7C770:481.25)
I'm assuming the vein in the roof is what used to be the old height of the roof ? ... 426 Hemi is my favorite Mopar engine
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Hey, way cool pics!
Long ago, we saw Pro Stock hemi runners (Landy, Sox & Martin, etc.) literally change little blocks of aluminum/wood inside Rat Roaster intakes in the pits! Screws, Loctite and other methods to keep channeling pieces that re-directed air flow in place. Geez, now seeing these highly modified intake ports on 426 heads makes me wonder how far even SS rules have gone crazy.
Still, love to see those Hemi cars runs in the 8:30s!
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Still, love to see those Hemi cars runs in the 8:30s!
While ETs have dropped with every class, it is astonish to think that in Pro Stock's debut year, 1970, they were running low 10s at 140MPH.
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About the only hemi car that gave ray a run was the honkin hemi, and that car was sold and has an auto in it... I doubt you will see another hemi run A or B ... The next car to give ray some competition could be Brandon Wilkinson... He has been 8.60s .. Ray is the man in the Fe world and A class.. There is a nice video interview by Evan smith on YouTube
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Nice interview with Mr. Paquet:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V7_kZyMoagk
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No doubt Ray is a heck of a guy, and he is no doubt the king of the Thunderbolts in Super Stock. His whole car is a product of years of hard work by an extremely smart individual.
There are no 64-65 Hemi cars with OE style hoods and longer wheelbase that can touch Ray in SS/A trim. The AH Darts and Cudas do take advantage of some creative rules interpretations. NHRA has kinda let things slide with them because they only race each other.
Last point.......all approved FE High Riser heads retain the same valve locations and angles as original. The approved Hemi heads are not the same as original. If they had to retain the OE valve location and angle, the valves touching each other would limit camshafts, and the FE High Riser would be much faster........even with the short wheelbase and mailbox on the hood that the '68 Hemi cars have. No telling how fast a '67 Mustang with a Tunnelport and 50 years of massaging those pushrod tubes would be.
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Amen on the valve angles ! You can only sink a valve so far to avoid valve to valve clearance problem , pretty much what ended the Hemi in Pro Stock once the field was leveled in the 80's with 500 inch rule (my opinion), by the time the 500 inch rule came out in Pro Stock the cam lift surpassed what Hemi's could run to be competitive , Harley Davidson Shovel heads had the same problem if you build them up they run into valve hitting the valve compared to what replaced it with the EVO design , but the Hemi like the Cammer when they were designed a .600 lift cam was considered big cam where now it's a street cam lift
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Would slightly smaller dia. valves alleviate the valve clipping problem?
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the valves just face each other too much , wedge motors don't have this trouble , Boss 429 doesn't have this trouble , Cammers don't have much trouble but they only have a designed in 1.3 rocker ratio limiting lift . Sinking the valves in by cutting the seat down is common practice to move the valves away from each other in the Harley Shovel head world and would imagine that's what the Mopar guys did too
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Good Paquet video - car details
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7_kZyMoagk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7_kZyMoagk)
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That's Fantastic! Thanks for posting.
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Yes Ray has now 30 Class wins at the US Nationals. He has many other class wins other places. There is some speculation that he has more wins in the other car and some say that's the 2 cars combined. Honestly not positive myself. Fastest run was 8.42@159. IDK if the Hemi`s ran under the same rules would they be beating up on him, IDK. I do know before they separated them he was winning.
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Awesome car, more awesome individual. Thanks for the Friday moment of fun!
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I watch , DragBoss garage, Tim had Darrin Morgan on and someone asked him to explain the work he did on the S/S hemi head package. He described how he spent 4 months redesigning the heads to get them to work, under what is acceptable to NHRA. They are completely changed from a stock head, not even close. Very intriguing what work he accomplished, and still make them acceptable. Let's face it, far from stock, with 4 months development by a man I consider , one of the best ever.
Ray is accomplishing what he has with a very different program ,and a very different set of rules. Plus it's Ray's work. He does the development.
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One more bit, Darrin's step father was Ford racer ,Kip Martin, who should be a legend, and in my opinion is, running a 352 Fe and kicking butt. If You put Ray and Darrin's fertile minds together, for a month , no telling what they would accomplish. Maybe a 7 second high riser?
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I watch , DragBoss garage, Tim had Darrin Morgan on and someone asked him to explain the work he did on the S/S hemi head package. He described how he spent 4 months redesigning the heads to get them to work, under what is acceptable to NHRA. They are completely changed from a stock head, not even close. Very intriguing what work he accomplished, and still make them acceptable. Let's face it, far from stock, with 4 months development by a man I consider , one of the best ever.
Ray is accomplishing what he has with a very different program ,and a very different set of rules. Plus it's Ray's work. He does the development.
Charlie Wescott had a lot to do with Ray picking up a bunch!
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I watch , DragBoss garage, Tim had Darrin Morgan on and someone asked him to explain the work he did on the S/S hemi head package. He described how he spent 4 months redesigning the heads to get them to work, under what is acceptable to NHRA. They are completely changed from a stock head, not even close. Very intriguing what work he accomplished, and still make them acceptable. Let's face it, far from stock, with 4 months development by a man I consider , one of the best ever.
Ray is accomplishing what he has with a very different program ,and a very different set of rules. Plus it's Ray's work. He does the development.
Back when I was magazine writing on a monthly basis, I spent time with both Jim Dove and Ray. At that time, they were working quite closely together. I remember seeing a head in Ray's garage, sourced from Jim, that had a different combination of runners and combustion chamber for each of the four cylinders. It wasn't meant as a running piece, but as a handy workpiece for development purposes. :)
KS
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One more bit, Darrin's step father was Ford racer ,Kip Martin, who should be a legend, and in my opinion is, running a 352 Fe and kicking butt. If You put Ray and Darrin's fertile minds together, for a month , no telling what they would accomplish. Maybe a 7 second high riser?
not in superstock
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Maybe not superstock but , I believe that was Ted Wells. But Darrin worked with Kip , and learned from his step dad. Darrin said that 352 was turning 8600 rpm. The forerunner of Lykins project , J J 😁
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I watch , DragBoss garage, Tim had Darrin Morgan on and someone asked him to explain the work he did on the S/S hemi head package. He described how he spent 4 months redesigning the heads to get them to work, under what is acceptable to NHRA. They are completely changed from a stock head, not even close. Very intriguing what work he accomplished, and still make them acceptable. Let's face it, far from stock, with 4 months development by a man I consider , one of the best ever.
Ray is accomplishing what he has with a very different program ,and a very different set of rules. Plus it's Ray's work. He does the development.
Charlie Wescott had a lot to do with Ray picking up a bunch!
Charlie knows how to make cars go fast, no matter what they are.
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You are correct, Westcott is a very smart man. ( Genuine nice gentleman) I wasn't aware he had worked with Ray. If you have Charlie in your arsenal, you have really got something.
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“Ahh, you do know that the HEMI Darts, and Barracuda's have their own class right? The winning car ran 8.30's @ 160mph. The FE isn't going to touch that.“. You know that 8.54 run Ray clicked it off early
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Well Russ who the hell would have thought it would run 8.54 10 years ago!
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“Ahh, you do know that the HEMI Darts, and Barracuda's have their own class right? The winning car ran 8.30's @ 160mph. The FE isn't going to touch that.“. You know that 8.54 run Ray clicked it off early
are the heads in that class stock configuration ? i believe the valves are moved around in them
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Hemi has its own ciass they are allowed to do cyl work the the rest cant you cam one big the valves hit one another So they get to move them a true stock hemi they are not.
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If you think Ray’s heads are closer to Stock, than a set of AH HEMI heads are, you couldn’t be more wrong. I’ve talked with Ray, and Kurt Neighbor about their combos at great lengths, and some of the stuff the Ford Thunderbolt combo gets away with was quite shocking.
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Hemi has its own ciass they are allowed to do cyl work the the rest cant you cam one big the valves hit one another So they get to move them a true stock hemi they are not.
cams raised up etc etc....they do get more things then a typical SS....but maybe they should....they are in there own class....
The Fe heads look more stock than the hemi guys lol
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As I posted previously, Darrin Morgan talked about the work he did on the super stock Hemi heads, the project lasted 4 months. He really had to analyze the whole head, and the intake ports are really something. Is it like stock? No. Does it work? Yes. Super stock is really a different animal. Trying to compare cars, is not apples to apples, so it is kind of pointless too try.