FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Member Projects => Topic started by: jayb on April 14, 2013, 08:38:56 PM
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I kind of figure from talking to some of my friends who know about this project that you guys will either love them or hate them LOL! Feel free to respond to the poll above. The photos below show the first pair of valve covers, and what one of them looks like mounted on the 428CJ that is currently on my dyno. The covers are not yet complete; more on that farther down the page.
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvc1.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvc2.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvc3.jpg)
I've been thinking about doing these for a long, long time. After our kids were born and my wife went back to work, I spent a lot of time in the house babysitting the kids when I wasn't at work. Because I couldn't spend time in the shop I started on the radio control model airplanes; I could build them on the dining room table while I was watching the kids (much to the wife's chagrin ;D). I got into that pretty heavily over the years and started doing a bunch of scratch built planes, and in order to make parts like canopies and gun turrets for some of the more complex models I wanted to have a vacuum forming capability. In the back of my mind I was also thinking about vacuum forming car parts, like valve covers... So, back in 2004, just as I was transitioning back to cars, I bought some plans and all the materials required to build my own vacuum forming machine. Shortly after all the parts arrived, my Mach 1 came up for sale on ebay, I bought it, and got completely immersed in that project. So the vacuum forming machine sat in pieces, awaiting fabrication and assembly, for about 8 years.
Fast forward to this fall, and I was cleaning up my shop after last year's unsuccessful Drag Week thrash, and kept having to move all the vacuum forming machine parts around as I was cleaning. I finally decided at the end of November just to put the freaking thing together. This turned out to be a fairly arduous task, involving lots of cutting, welding, plumbing, wiring, woodworking, etc. Took me a whole month, but over the New Year's holiday I finally finished it, and tested it with success on a clear plastic canopy for a 1/5 scale AT-6 Texan.
Of course, now I didn't want to do airplane parts, I wanted to do valve covers. Starting with 428CJ valve covers as a guide, I built a plug that I thought would work, and then shopped around some for the right plastic. I finally settled on 1/8" thick Lexan, which is supposed to stay hard up to 280 degrees, and was rigid enough to make a decent cover.
My first experiments with vacuum forming Lexan were not all that successful, but as I learned I modified the valve cover plug and my technique until I got better results. This has been kind of a back burner project because of the work I've been doing on the CVR water pump adapters and the FE intake adapters, but finally this weekend I got a passable valve cover off the vacuum form machine.
Here's a photo of the vacuum forming machine, with the valve cover plug on the forming surface (called the platen), and the plastic attached to the frame and up in the heating position.
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/vform1.jpg)
From below, you can look up through the clear Lexan and see the heating elements in the top of the vacuum forming machine:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/vform2.jpg)
When the plastic gets hot enough it starts to droop, and when it droops to a certain point the frame holding the plastic is pulled down over the plug and stretched onto the platen. Then a valve is opened feeding vacuum to the platen, and sucking the plastic down onto the plug. It happens really fast. The challenge then is to get the plug back out of the plastic, but after working it for a while you can do this if the plug is designed correctly. Mine gave me some trouble at first, but I finally got it working.
Next steps are to machine a couple of valve cover rails that will sandwich the Lexan, and bolt together with an O-ring seal to provide a leak-free, rigid frame to bolt the valve covers down with. This will ensure that sealing to the valve cover gasket isn't an issue. I also plan to machine a fitting that bolts to the top of the valve cover and will accept a factory breather. Then I want to develop a light kit that fits into the aluminum frame, and will turn on some LEDs when energized. Finally, when I've got all that worked out I think I will put a set of these on an FE car for testing over the summer, to see if the Lexan really will hold up to underhood temperatures. If they look like they will survive without any trouble, I may start building them for sale this fall.
I've also given some thought to doing a set of covers based on the pentroof design. It is a difficult process to build a plug for the vacuum form machine, but if these covers last the summer without durability problems I think I may give that a try. One of the real distinctive things about FE engines is the valve covers, and the pentroof covers are a real signature piece, so I think I may have to give those a try. I've also thought about an SOHC version, but that would be REALLY tough, with the spark plug tubes coming through the valves covers. On the other hand, I like a challenge...
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Jay, great idea! I would go for the pentroof versions as they're my favorites, and yes they are a signature piece as you've said. The rounded, baldy style might be popular with some folks too. My only doubt would be sealing, but I read that you're addressing that... Bruce
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Always thought the PSE clear valve covers were pretty cool. Would be great to be able to look at your rockers and springs without taking the covers off. I'd be interested in getting a CJ style set or two. Hope it works out and passes your test.
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Helluva idea!
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A couple of things Jay.
It's not called babysitting Dad, it's called parenting. ::)
Babysitting is when the young girl comes over and you go out, then her boyffiend comes over and eats all your GOOD food and does things on your couch
you don't want to know about. Then you pay her.
And do they clear a set of Erson's
And how much for a set.
Very Kool!!!
Got to try that oil pan next, that will be an interesting show on the pump.
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Hey, I remember that Howie, now that you mention it. 35 years ago I was that kid who knew the babysitter 8)
They should clear Ersons, and no idea how much yet - I need to figure out if this will even work in the longer term.
If I did the oil pan and the timing cover, I'll be getting close to the visible V8 engine ;D
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How about a clear plastic intake manifold? LOL Lot of the new cars come with a plastic intake.
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I remember at Ford we spent a ton of time and money getting clear covers and oil pans made up for the first Modular V-8's. The engines were spitting rods out the block, and no analysis could explain it.
Finally after putting an engine on the dyno with those covers, the oil return woes came to light.
I imagine if you have to machine aluminum pan rails it will get expensive. Hopefully you can find a way to make half-rails so you don't waste so much material. Fun project!
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Jay, What about a plasma cut rings out of stainless for the hold down rings? Only drawback is the amount of waste after cutting. If I can help let me know as I have a CNC plasma cutter and fab SST every day.
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Very cool Jay. And that is one hell of a vacuum forming machine. You could make lots of kit car and model airplane parts with that baby....among other things!
I like the clear covers with one big caveat: the originals, from the few I'd seen long ago, discolored rather quickly on the inside from the oil heat and became rather unsightly. Perhaps with the advances in modern plastics the material you're using won't do that.
Hey, it just dawned on me that you've turned into...wait for it..........
Pro Stock Paul (of P.S.E. yore)!
Hah, at least your stuff will actually work.....LOL!
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Very cool. I wouldn't run them permanently but would definately love to slip a set on and watch the show.
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Hey, it just dawned on me that you've turned into...wait for it..........
Pro Stock Paul (of P.S.E. yore)!
Hah, at least your stuff will actually work.....LOL!
I was wondering when somebody was going to bring that up LOL! Looking in the old PSE catalog, their clear valve covers were kind of rounded looking, not really FE-ish except for maybe the old baldy valve covers. The CJ shape of my covers look a lot more like FE parts, and the pentroofs would really make the FE statement.
I hate to be seen as just copying PSE's old parts, because my parts are substantially different, but I suppose comparisons are inevitable. And PSE did have a lot of cool parts back in the day...
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"I hate to be seen as just copying PSE's old parts, because my parts are substantially different, but I suppose comparisons are inevitable. And PSE did have a lot of cool parts back in the day... <JayB>"
Up next... The Jay Brown Billet Aluminum 5.00 inch stroker crankshaft!
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Geez Bill, did Pro Stock Paul really make one of those?? Guess I'd better review my 1980 catalog... :o
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How about a clear plastic intake manifold? LOL Lot of the new cars come with a plastic intake.
You know, Earl, when I get my intake adapters finished up I could build one with a Lexan cover for the middle, rather than using a machined aluminum cover. It would be cool to see the lifters going up and down...
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A friend had a bbc with Kinsler FI
with a lexan sheat over the lifter valley
but you couldnt see much from all the
oil spraying around
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How about a clear plastic intake manifold? LOL Lot of the new cars come with a plastic intake.
You know, Earl, when I get my intake adapters finished up I could build one with a Lexan cover for the middle, rather than using a machined aluminum cover. It would be cool to see the lifters going up and down...
Since its a simple flat panel, i have been kicking around the idea of making a Lexan cover for the bottom of my Tunnel Wedge. It has an ugly homemade aluminum cover on there now, and I am not aware of anybody that reproduces the stock stamped steel cover. Not only would it be interesting to see how much oil drains back thru the lifter valley, it would be easy to run with and without the lifter baffle tray, and see if it makes a noticable difference.
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You know, Earl, when I get my intake adapters finished up I could build one with a Lexan cover for the middle, rather than using a machined aluminum cover. It would be cool to see the lifters going up and down...
That would be really neat.
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I dig em! Need to do a clear distributor cap too. A buddy had one on his Cameo pickup in high school. We would stand around with the truck idling and the hood up in the dark. Just watching the light show. Mesmerized....... ;D
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I dig em! Need to do a clear distributor cap too. A buddy had one on his Cameo pickup in high school. We would stand around with the truck idling and the hood up in the dark. Just watching the light show. Mesmerized....... ;D
Clear distributor caps for Ford V8s using 1 piece caps have ben around for years (Mr. Gasket, I think), however, with a magnetic pickup ignition like a Duraspark or MSD, I doubt there would be much of a "light show" like with a breaker point system. ALED system like a Mallory Unilite may put on a show.
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Your survey questions are a crack up.
With the money I've spent on my valve train I'd love to see it work. At least once in a while.
Would oil spatter fog it up too much?
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Putting see through covers on your engine, now that is real FE porn!
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Your survey questions are a crack up.
With the money I've spent on my valve train I'd love to see it work. At least once in a while.
Would oil spatter fog it up too much?
No idea, but once I've got a pair installed I'll take a video with the engine running and we'll all be able to see...
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I think discoloring with oil staining and heat may be a prob over time, but let's see how they do in your road testing this summer! +2 or 3 on seeing the show!
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Getting brittle or warping like a Buick V6 intake would be an issue for a daily driver.
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So, I've been making a little more progress on the clear valve covers. The vacuum forming was the big thing, but I still had to design and machine rails to go around the outside of the valve cover, to seal the Lexan to the ring and have a rigid surface for sealing the whole valve cover assembly to the engine. Over the last couple of weeks I've managed to design and CNC the rails for one of these valve covers. My original plan had been to seal the Lexan to the aluminum with an O-ring, but with all the bolts required to hold the two halves of the aluminum rails together, there just didn't seem to be enough room for a decent O-ring, so I ended up using gray silicone to make the seal. I also designed the rails so that a strip of LED lights could fit in there, just for a little bling LOL! Actually, I'm thinking that under the hood at night, you won't be able to see anything through these covers unless there is some kind of light source, so I put the LEDs in there for that purpose. But if I had a Toyota and was a tuner, I'd be pretty excited about this... ;D
After vacuum forming the first few covers I decided to make a change to the plug, to provide a flat surface on the top of the valve cover that I could mount an oil fill cap or breather on. I don't have the plug modification finished yet, and I was going to wait until I had that done before I put one of these things together, but this morning when I came out to the shop I thought what the hell, let's see what one of these things looks like. So, I took one of the Lexan covers I'd previously made and bolted one of the assemblies together. Here are some photos.
The photo below shows all the parts required to build a clear valve cover, including the aluminum rails and the strip of LEDs:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvcparts.jpg)
I was able to get this machined out of a 6" X 30" piece of 3/8" thick aluminum plate, because I broke up the top rail into four separate pieces. Otherwise, if I had made the two rails as single pieces, it would have taken a 45" length of aluminum to fit. The single piece shown in the photo is the bottom rail; I wanted it continuous so that I could get a good seal to the Lexan and also to the valve cover gasket, but the top parts are only required to sandwich the Lexan, so designing them as four different pieces wasn't a problem. Note the LED light strip, which was real convenient to use for this application. Unfortunately, it is not rated for anywhere near automotive temperatures, but we'll see how it does. I don't plan to drive around with the lights on or anything...
Here's a couple pictures of the completed unit:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvcassy.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvcassy1.jpg)
In the bottom photo you can see the LED strip positioned inside the top aluminum rail. The rail assembly is nice and rigid, and I don't expect any sealing problems.
After dummying this together (no sealer between the Lexan and the rail yet), I bolted it on the engine to see what it looked like. I had purchased two different colors of LED strips, white and green. (I had wanted blue, but Digikey was out of those.) Here's some photos of the valve cover installed, and with the white LEDs turned on:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvcinst.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvcwhled.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvcdark.jpg)
In the last photo I had decided to flip off the lights and take a picture with the LEDs turned on, but this didn't look so hot; you've got a good view of the pushrods, but the position of the LED strip in the valve cover rail doesn't really illuminate the rocker arms all that well. Next I tried the green LEDs:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvcgrled.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/cvcgrld2.jpg)
I decided I liked the green LEDs better, so I used those when I did the final assembly on the cover. Prior to final assembly I sanded the lower flange of the Lexan to give the silicone something to bite on, and then bolted it all together. Pretty straightforward, really. Next I re-installed the valve cover on the engine and tightened everything down this time. So, it was time for the moment of truth. When I fired up the engine I was concerned about leaks, but after watching it for several minutes none developed. So, I think I must have a good seal between the Lexan and the aluminum rail. I made a video of the engine cranking and then running with the valve cover in place, and found that after the engine was running the frame rate of my camera was such that around 1600 RPM the rocker arm movements appear to slow down, and you can see the rockers in motion. A link to the video is below:
http://youtu.be/mIl9DbAopyU
I have to admit that I was kind of surprised at how little oil was splashing around under the valve cover. There was no problem making out what the valvetrain was doing. After making the video I continued to run the engine to warm it up, and then turned on the camera again to record a dyno pull. This time there was a little more oil splash, but still not enough to really occlude the valvetrain from view:
http://youtu.be/7wQsvOB4fJc
At this point, so far anyway, this project has been a success. Over the next few weeks I'll get a couple sets of these cranked out, equipped with breathers so that they can actually be used on the car. Then I'll try to get the engine installed in my 68 Mustang and see how these things hold up. I have to say I think they're kind of cool, and I'm hoping for success with the summer road test...
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Jay that is SOOOOO cool .....
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Cool! That is pretty neat. Have you considered putting the LED strip on the lower (exhaust) edge? It may show more spring/rocker action simply due to the rocker ratio.
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Jay, bloody awesome very interesting on the amount of oil up there no where near as much as I would have thought. also you are now right hand drive??
a job very well done.
Kevin.
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also you are now right hand drive??
Kevin.
LOL! Must have been the exhaust fumes in the dyno room...
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yea I thought more oil to ....are your heads restricted ? p.s. I did see them leaking on the dyno pull... lol ...
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The heads have .070" Holley jets installed as restrictors, and unfortunately I see that you are right, the dyno pull does show a leak around one of the bolt holes, and it looks like also at the rear corner. I think the rear corner might be the valve cover gasket; its pretty beat up. But I obviously need a better seal around the bolt hole...
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Great way to determine what size oil restricter to use in the heads. 8)
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I'd like to have just one clear valve cover....for checking drain efficiency of the head
...Sure would beat slicing and diceing a good aluminum v/c just to monitor the oil flow and draining. Jay, are those covers on a sideoiler? I check oil flow on my s/o and found very little oil going to the heads, I think I asked you about this a few months ago.
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So, you want to borrow my valve cover LOL! Sorry, not quite ready to let go yet. The engine is a 428CJ, not a sideoiler. The oil to the heads from a sideoiler block has to go through the grooves on the #2 and #4 cam journals, and this functions as a similar restriction to the Holley jets I dropped into the heads on this engine. So I sideoiler shouldn't need restrictors, and should have a similar amount of oil up in the head as this engine.
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Very cool Jay.
I've got a love hate thing going with the lights.
Also can't help but think of your 2008 vids on drag week and the SOHC rocker deal.
Wondering if......
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Very cool....I saw a set of clear ones on the Motown Missile pro stock in 70' at Suffolk dragway. Very neat !!
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Yea Im the same way ..would love just a single cover for testing /valve/oiling/testing ect .... I dont think I would want them all the time, just for testing. for a decent price Im a buyer ....
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I kinda like them. Probably be a big hit at the car shows, and just fun see reactions whenever you pop the hood. Nice job Jay. Mike
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me likey A LOT!!
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Do the LED's have a fast enough response time to use them as a stroboscope?
It the plastic transparent to one of those newfangled hand held laser temperature probes?
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Do the LED's have a fast enough response time to use them as a stroboscope?
It the plastic transparent to one of those newfangled hand held laser temperature probes?
You're reading my mind, Doug, and in fact I'm working on a strobe circuit for this setup right now. The LED's will be fast enough, but I don't know if their lighting is sufficient to really allow you to "see" the valvetrain slowing down or stopping when the strobe is turned on.
On the IR temperature probe, no reason why it wouldn't work that I can think of, since infra-red light should pass through the Lexan. But I haven't tried it...
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At one time or another I must have stated here that you've obviously found a way to get at least 28 hours out of each day! What you've done is up to your usual standard---stratospherically high. I, too, think that a pent-roof is the ultimate!
KS
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Progress report? Is the Lexan surviving?
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I've only had it on the dyno so far, I'm still waiting for a Quicktime bellhousing before I can put this motor into the car. They're telling me now early September, so maybe I'll have the car running in October, but I've missed the heat of the summer, so it will probably have to wait until next year before I can really give them the acid test. For what it's worth, when I broke the new cam in on the engine a few weeks ago the oil temp was up to 230 for at least 20 minutes, with the engine running at 2000-2500 RPM. This didn't affect the covers at all; they are still nice and clear.
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Thanks for the update. I'm quite curious to see how temperature cycling, crankcase moisture, and oil pH will affect them over time. Will you be running crankcase vacuum on this engine, or just a simple PCV/breather setup?
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I'm just going to be running breathers on that engine.
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Hey jay, wondering if you ever did find time to work on those clear valve covers? If you would be interested I have a set of tall pent roof mercury lightning bolt valve covers you could use as a pattern.
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Are we to infer that after this whole idea is proven, the next in line will be a similar product for a...wait-for-it...CAMMER?
KS
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A set of clear valve covers for the SOHC would really be cool, all right, but it would also be a lot of work, and I wonder if they would have sealing issues around the spark plug tubes. That is a big question mark for me on those.
Thanks for the offer on the pentroofs, but I already have a set that I will be using for a pattern. Haven't gotten too far on the clear valve cover project since this summer; been tied up with the intake adapter instead. But I will definitely get to it soon...
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cool!!!.
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Seems others are thinking along these same lines....
http://www.carthrottle.com/clear-valve-covers-will-be-the-next-big-thing-in-engine-modding/
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I'd buy at least a set just for dyno development
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Yep, I'd like to have a set for my test/break-in stand
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One can clearly see the advantage of these for the every day engine builder/Dyno guy!
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One can clearly see the advantage of these for the every day engine builder/Dyno guy!
Yes, very 'clearly' ;D
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One can clearly see the advantage of these for the every day engine builder/Dyno guy!
Yes, very 'clearly' ;D
That was good! LOL
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your going to be busy making alot of parts this winter lol
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Jay, I know your super busy with all the cool stuff you have made. Just wanted to give the clear valve covers a bump , to see if there was any progress . Hope that's ok, and all is well. Look forward to seeing them soon!
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At this point my only issue with them is that I haven't proven them out on the street, in underhood conditions. They work fine on the dyno. Sad to say that I did not have a wedge FE in a drivable car last summer, so I couldn't test them. For sure this year, and assuming they pass muster I will make them available.
I saw the set of clear pentroofs on the FE forum the other day (link below), but I don't know whose they were (or are). Anybody know? I don't think they are PSE, because the PSE catalogs I have show clear valve covers that don't look anything like those...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/message/1486364535/Clear+valvecovers
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Jay, I'm ready. :)
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In that same link Jay where you saw the pic a poster noted that the original PSE
tooling was up for sale:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/message/1486521265/The+orignal+Paul+Bedouin+%28PSE%29+tooling
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Those do look like a different shape versus the PSE. I have had a set of NOS PSE clear valve covers with the aluminum hold down flanges, or whatever you want to call them, for about 10 years now. I guess I am afraid to put them on? Might drop the value, not that I want to sell them (I don't).
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I saw those also. I also do not think they look like the PSE, which looked more rounded. I want to be first to offer my assistance in street testing the valve covers on my Galaxie. I have it back together and hope to do a bunch of cruses and shows with it this year! Let me know if I can help, and thanks Jay.
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Since I collect FE valve covers, those would be a must have.
Richard
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Looks like they have a metal base ring as well, probably a good idea to help them keep shape.
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I WANT!!!!!!