FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Mach1428cj on December 28, 2020, 08:57:47 AM
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Need opinions on what radiator to buy. Looking at a 24 inch 2 row with 1 1/4 inch tubes or a 3 row with 3/4 inch tubes. both are aluminum. Which one would cool better. Both radiators are ACP's from CJ Pony parts. This is for a 69 mustang with a 462 stroker with aluminum heads and is a street driver. Beat on a little bit but never raced. Thanks for your help
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2 rows will flow more air so I vote 2 row.
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The two row radiator with the 1.250" tubes.
There is more cooling area with the big tubes. They are also more expensive to make. The reason copper/brass radiators of high capacity use three or four rows is because using large tubes would lead to an extraordinarily heavy radiator. The large tubes are preferred but not practical in copper/brass in automotive applications.
I know there are a lot of cheap aluminum radiators out there advertising their three-row design, but those are inferior small-tube designs and have much less cooling capacity than a two row with big tubes. They are relying on consumers being experienced with copper/brass with more rows meaning more cooling.
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I run a 2 row like that with a 489 and A/C, but I do run a big clutch fan and good shroud. I think either will work, but I like the free flow of the 2x big cores (not that I don't like the 3 row, just haven't used them and they seem to get tighter)
My experience when living in Vegas (you learn temp control quick there) is that having a good fan, 1:1 or overdriven, is more important than the radiator above a certain minimum (think old stock rad), so in the end, I say it's OK to pick the one you like better, but think hard on the fan and pulleys behind it
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I compared 2 row to 3 row and the 2 row came out on top on my car.
My 2 row I think is only 1 inch cores from Ron Davis Radiator.
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Check out autocity1958 on Ebay motors. They have a nice original style radiator in aluminum with 2 row 1 1/8th tubes. Painted version $249 with free shipping, but, I know they offer unpainted for less. I bought my 69 Fairlane Cobra radiator from them. Super nice radiator and packaged very well.
Brian
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Be Cool, Griffin, etc are some of the favorite go-tos, but they are pricey. Check out Northern:
https://www.northernradiator.com/HIGH_PERFORMANCE/SEARCH_BY_VEHICLE/FORD/MUSTANG/1969/205132
I have this exact radiator, machined polished it to a mirror finish. Half the price of Griffin. Another cool one to check out is Engineered Cooling Products.
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I installed an "ACP Radiator MaxCore Plus 3-Row Aluminum Type 379 OE-Style 390/428 1967-1970/With Air Conditioning 302/351 1970" in my 70 Mach 1, 454 sideoiler and it runs much cooler. It is nearly identical to the stock radiator so I could paint it black and no one would know it was an aluminum radiator.
(https://i.imgur.com/tIl1ApXl.jpg)
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did the mounts work and was the fan spacing from the radiator OK. Looks awesome
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The ACP radiators fit the stock mounts for 68-up cars. Nothing is made anymore that fits the 67 only lower. They also come in a black finish from ACP that is semi-gloss black. It won't peel like a spray paint will either.
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Everything dropped into place, stock mounts and all. I installed a new flex fan at the same time so i changed the spacer to put the fan 50% in/out of the shroud. The old fan was probably not spaced properly to begin with, so I purchased a 2.25" OEM-style spacer from CJ Pony parts that put the new fan right where I wanted it.
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Check out autocity1958 on Ebay motors. They have a nice original style radiator in aluminum with 2 row 1 1/8th tubes. Painted version $249 with free shipping, but, I know they offer unpainted for less. I bought my 69 Fairlane Cobra radiator from them. Super nice radiator and packaged very well.
Brian
I have an Auto City Classic stock appearance aluminum radiator in my 59 2 door sedan, with a 428 Cobra Jet engine. It looks almost identical to a stock 57-59 ford radiator, including the shape and fins of the top tank. I also has 2 1 1/8" tubes, and I am very happy how it cools, I have a 160 thermostat, and it will cruise down the road or freeway right at 160. In gridlock, or long idling periods on a hot day, the temp does slowly start climbing, but pretty sure that is more of a airflow/fan issue, since these cars never used a shroud from the factory. But not much of a concern, as it takes quite a while to creep over 22o, and as soon as you start moving, the gauge drops back down quickly. If the AutoCity radiators for Mustangs and other cars keep the factory looks, I think they are a great radiator for the money. By the way, Auto City offers lots of other products, my 59 also has a new gas tank and windshield that I bought from them, they also have door and side glass, disc brake conversions, and lots of other stuff too. They are in Minnesota, and they have been great to deal with. In fact, they travel to many major swap meets, and can deliver to the meets they attend. 57tru 59 Ford car windshields have large wrap around sides, so the take a much larger box than most windshields, so shipping can be pricey. So when I noticed that one of the swap meets they were going to was the big meet in Portland Oregon, I arranged to have them deliver the windshield to there, and I picked it up from them directly. That way if the windshield was damaged in transit, it wouldn`t be my problem, plus I saved the shipping costs. Worked out great.
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I have an Auto City Classic stock appearance aluminum radiator in my 59 2 door sedan, with a 428 Cobra Jet engine. It looks almost identical to a stock 57-59 ford radiator, including the shape and fins of the top tank. I also has 2 1 1/8" tubes, and I am very happy how it cools, I have a 160 thermostat, and it will cruise down the road or freeway right at 160. In gridlock, or long idling periods on a hot day, the temp does slowly start climbing, but pretty sure that is more of a airflow/fan issue, since these cars never used a shroud from the factory. But not much of a concern, as it takes quite a while to creep over 22o, and as soon as you start moving, the gauge drops back down quickly. If the AutoCity radiators for Mustangs and other cars keep the factory looks, I think they are a great radiator for the money. By the way, Auto City offers lots of other products, my 59 also has a new gas tank and windshield that I bought from them, they also have door and side glass, disc brake conversions, and lots of other stuff too. They are in Minnesota, and they have been great to deal with. In fact, they travel to many major swap meets, and can deliver to the meets they attend. 57tru 59 Ford car windshields have large wrap around sides, so the take a much larger box than most windshields, so shipping can be pricey. So when I noticed that one of the swap meets they were going to was the big meet in Portland Oregon, I arranged to have them deliver the windshield to there, and I picked it up from them directly. That way if the windshield was damaged in transit, it wouldn`t be my problem, plus I saved the shipping costs. Worked out great.
Checking out their website, the radiators don't have the correct inlet and outlet locations for an FE in a Mustang. One is for small blocks, and the other I'm not sure, maybe 385 series, or 6 cylinder? Or maybe they're just generic pictures?
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1968-1969-1970-Ford-Mustang-Mercury-Cougar-Big-Block-24-Aluminum-Radiator/291620347931?fits=Model:Mustang&hash=item43e5ed601b:g:TXYAAOSwwE5WYIIe&redirect=mobile
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1968-1969-1970-Ford-Mustang-Mercury-Cougar-Big-Block-24-Aluminum-Radiator/291620347931?fits=Model:Mustang&hash=item43e5ed601b:g:TXYAAOSwwE5WYIIe&redirect=mobile
Sometimes I wonder what the quality of these cheap parts are. $200 for an aluminum radiator is an almost unbelievable price. By comparison, US Radiator has a great reputation, is built in the U.S., but has a starting price of $525. It makes me wonder how they can produce that one for 62% less money ??? And yes, I'm aware that it probably came from China.
http://usradiator.com/ford-mustang-1968-70-v8-302-351-390-428-aluminum-radiator
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...??? And yes, I'm aware that it probably came from China.
There you go. I bought a Griffin for my Fairlane about 15 years ago. It was around $550. I just looked it up. It has gone up to nearly $700. There is no way Griffin or any other quality manufacturer could be in business if these were equal products. I have read some reviews for these bargain radiators. It seems they don't last very long. They tend to come apart after a couple years. Maybe not all of them. I'm sure some folks have had theirs for years. I would expect longevity would be different between a garage queen and a car that is regularly driven. The bumps and vibrations and disassemble even good radiators.
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If you pay your workers a sandwich,without butter and.... without bread for salary you keep low
prices ;) ;D
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Thanks for all the replies. I had been thinking of going with the two row to start with. Judging from the opinions and experiences I think I will try the two row.Thanks again
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No shortage of hem-haw about radiators and their cost. However, on the Mustang forums there are many, many FE cars that the ACP MAX-Cool has changed the game for. Most of us want to keep the engine looking somewhat as it came. The ACP radiators are in the 330.00 range. They work well, fit well and mimic factory fit, form and design.
I have one I haven't installed yet. I am running an original ford 24" unit that I had re-cored as a three core. There is 3/8" between the fan clutch and the core.
It's very tight. The downside is the re-core was 422.00.
I just added factory A/C. I won't know how well it does until the late spring. The inboard headlights are also an issue.
I'll know where I am late this spring and if I am going to have to change over to the 2 core Max unit.
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1968-1969-1970-Ford-Mustang-Mercury-Cougar-Big-Block-24-Aluminum-Radiator/291620347931?fits=Model:Mustang&hash=item43e5ed601b:g:TXYAAOSwwE5WYIIe&redirect=mobile
I can`t say anything about that Mustang rad, but it does look pretty good to me. I have had my Auto City rad for my 59 for about 5 years, but I have only had the car actually on the road for 6 months, and have only put a little over 2000 miles on it, so time will tell how it holds up over time. But I figured for 200 bucks I would take a chance. So far, so good. And although it may very well have been made in China, I can`t say that for sure. But the new gas tank that I also bought from them, says "Made in Canada", so who knows for sure.
Sometimes I wonder what the quality of these cheap parts are. $200 for an aluminum radiator is an almost unbelievable price. By comparison, US Radiator has a great reputation, is built in the U.S., but has a starting price of $525. It makes me wonder how they can produce that one for 62% less money ??? And yes, I'm aware that it probably came from China.
http://usradiator.com/ford-mustang-1968-70-v8-302-351-390-428-aluminum-radiator
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Everything dropped into place, stock mounts and all. I installed a new flex fan at the same time so i changed the spacer to put the fan 50% in/out of the shroud. The old fan was probably not spaced properly to begin with, so I purchased a 2.25" OEM-style spacer from CJ Pony parts that put the new fan right where I wanted it.
Someone that admits to running a flex fan,on some forums that would instigate a lynch mob.Ford use to use them on pickups in the 70's and I think one of variations of the 428 or 429 fans was actually a flex fan.The factory ones I've seen were very well made with some sort of stainless blades and a rigid leading edge that the blade was rivetted to.I don't know if I could be convinced that modern ones were of that quality but to be honest I've never even looked at them,I run either a fixed blade fan or a clutch fan and don't even consider running a flex.I don't buy into the hysteria some people have about them but have seen the results of a couple of factory flex fans that had fatigued,granted they were on rigs that had less than meticulous maintainence and they do need to be periodically inspected for signs of cracks.As far as overseas parts I was watching a show on TV recently and they needed a part cast,it was in Malaysia or someplace like that and the small foundry they used had a guy dealing with the molten metal in shorts and sandals,no hot work gloves or safety glasses,I was surprised that Big Brother would even let it be broadcast on national TV.
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I don't think any FE mustang ever came with a flex fan. I thought running a fan clutch was a handicap, but the car actually stays cooler. I had the factory clutch restored. It works great. I spin the car to 6500 on occasion too. I see many installations lacking a shroud, which is another cooling handicap.
The Stewart EMP 180 thermostat works well with the high flow water pump. In 100 degree weather I am rarely over 200.
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Someone that admits to running a flex fan,on some forums that would instigate a lynch mob.
I've seen the aftermath of a few flex fans that exploded, so I won't run one myself.
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Someone that admits to running a flex fan,on some forums that would instigate a lynch mob.
I've seen the aftermath of a few flex fans that exploded, so I won't run one myself.
I had a brand new NAPA fan clutch lose about 12 blades. It did 1000.00 in damage to the fiberglass hood and forced me to re-core the radiator a second time. I'm with you on flex-fans as well.
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I run a good quality steel flex fan. No issues even in many blasts to 6kRPM. Been on the car for nearly 40 years. I suppose I'm doomed. Doomed!, I tell you.
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I run a good quality steel flex fan. No issues even in many blasts to 6kRPM. Been on the car for nearly 40 years. I suppose I'm doomed. Doomed!, I tell you.
Your fan wasn't made of paper thin aluminum in China! I have the factory C6OE-F unit with the C7ZX fan clutch.
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I run a good quality steel flex fan. No issues even in many blasts to 6kRPM. Been on the car for nearly 40 years. I suppose I'm doomed. Doomed!, I tell you.
Yep, me too; mine is stainless and rated for 10,000 rpm. Guess I'll keep a careful eye on the tach and move my shift point down a little.
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I don't think any FE mustang ever came with a flex fan. I thought running a fan clutch was a handicap, but the car actually stays cooler. I had the factory clutch restored. It works great. I spin the car to 6500 on occasion too. I see many installations lacking a shroud, which is another cooling handicap.
The Stewart EMP 180 thermostat works well with the high flow water pump. In 100 degree weather I am rarely over 200.
Nope, no flex. Rather fixed pitch:
https://www.428cobrajet.org/id-fan
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I run a good quality steel flex fan. No issues even in many blasts to 6kRPM. Been on the car for nearly 40 years. I suppose I'm doomed. Doomed!, I tell you.
Yep, me too; mine is stainless and rated for 10,000 rpm. Guess I'll keep a careful eye on the tach and move my shift point down a little.
Same here, I have had a few 18" FlexALite stainless steel flex fans, and have never had any issue with them. I currently have one on my 428CJ powered 59, and also ran the same model on my 70 428 CJ Mach 1. That said, I did have an issue with the factory flex fan on my old 70 Mustang 351C 4 barrel. It didn`t actually come apart, but I did find cracks in the flexible blades , close to where the blades were riveted to the steel frame.
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I don't think any FE mustang ever came with a flex fan. I thought running a fan clutch was a handicap, but the car actually stays cooler. I had the factory clutch restored. It works great. I spin the car to 6500 on occasion too. I see many installations lacking a shroud, which is another cooling handicap.
The Stewart EMP 180 thermostat works well with the high flow water pump. In 100 degree weather I am rarely over 200.
Nope, no flex. Rather fixed pitch:
https://www.428cobrajet.org/id-fan
You might want to take another look at the table you referenced the fan at the bottom of the list is clearly described as a 7 blade flex fan with D0TA part #.
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I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I condemn the use of flex fans,I tried to avoid that,I personally prefer to use fixed or clutch fans but am neutral about others preferences,I did purposefully try stress the need for good quality and periodic inspection,but that really applies to any engine driven fan.
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My bad...
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I don't think most of us are particularly fond of flex fans. Not only destroyed hoods and radiators but one fatality from a flying blade.
The cheap ones are worse.
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Something I didn't see mentioned - you want to run an aluminum radiator "hot". 180 t-stat minimum, 195 better. Aluminum likes a hotter working fluid which works really well with the big tubes and large surface area on a dual row. I use a 195 for a street car, and a big 18" deep flute Flex-a-lite "flex fan". They don't flex so much but move big air. Salad shooter too, watch your fingers. Moved later to the big GM OEM fans so not a worry now.
Mine is a 31x19 from Summit, generic style (upper right/lower left). I run distilled water and "water wetter" - been in service for 20 years.
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Again, you're looking at it from one facet. Many Mustang actually drive their cars in other than 1320 spurts. Most of us don't take our cars to the drag strip. If you have factory AC you start having more issues with clearances. Griffin radiators, while well made do not follow factory form and fit. If originality aren't a concern, and purpose dictate, sure go with a Griffin.
For many, It has to look factory. Yes, I love power combined with reliability. There are just few exterior changes in my other than plating and headers that are obvious from a glance.
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In my car I originally had a modine 370. When I got a Griffin I asked them to duplicate a 370 but the tank on the drivers side wasnt the same so it wouldnt fit. It didnt bevel down on the bottom. I asked the guy to call the Griffin rep while I was there and he did and I asked him if he could duplicate it exactly and he said yes. Well he screwed it up one more time and when I said just give me my money back the guy said I will make sure it gets done properly and it did. It literally is a 370 in aluminum. So as far as originality if you were to paint it with radiator paint it would look original.
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The exact fit isn't the same as factory in looks. The neck is much taller. It's also 684.00 for 7-00042 FE unit. A bit over-priced.
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Mustangs are the worst - the generic 19" tall units won't fit unless narrow enough to fit between the front rails. With a proper shroud and fan a 24x19 dual core should cool a relatively tame street type engine. But they really need to be wider and not as tall. Fairlane/Falcon 66 up - 31x19 and open up the radiator support, decent fans or engine driven 18" with shroud will cool nearly everything.
(http://raceabilene.com/misc/LT1fanB.jpg)
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The cross-flow would be much better.... But.
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Yes, crossflow is way better, also better is moving the radiator cap to the suction side, away from the high temp pressure side.