FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: frnkeore on November 29, 2020, 01:38:52 PM
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I've only been on this form, a little over a year. I hear of recommended head gaskets for this or that but, I haven't seen a thread on how and why, to select one for a particular application. Besides their sealing ability, they can make a fair difference in CR and especially quench. What gaskets are the best for aluminum and cast iron heads?
I compiled a list of commonly available gaskets, with their cc capacity. I found two problems, the first was the lack of a cc capacity for the Fel Pro 8554PT. It uses the original Ford shape and I can't compute it's capacity. Does anyone have that info? The second is the Edelbrock, it, like all the others has a round bore, by it's pictures but, it's said to be 9.9cc. Computing it's dimension, it is actually 9.17cc and it's been said, on this forum, that it doesn't compress to .038. Does anyone have any hard numbers on it? I verified the the listed capacity of all on this list, with the noted acceptations.
The 8554 seems to have conflicting compressed thickness, some on here, say .053 and another source says .050 +/- .0015. I would say, that the actual head bolt torque could account for that. By that, the I mean, the accuracy of the torque wrench and what the bolts are oiled with, along with how well the block and bolt threads are preped.
Do the MLS have a more reliable compressed thickness and has anyone used the Mahle/Clevite 3389?
Here's my list, feel free to add to this list and comment on any of them, in actual application:
Mr. Gasket 5790G .038 x 4.400 Graphite 9.468cc
Mr Gasket 3256G; MLS .040" x 4.400" 9.967cc
Mr Gasket 3255G MLS .040" x 4.325" 9.630cc
Edelbrock 7337 .038 x 4.33 9.900cc / 9.170
Fel-Pro 1020 .041" x 4.400" 10.100cc
Fel-Pro 8554 PT .051 x 4.330 not round 4.33 x 4.57 est 12.70cc
Fel-Pro 8045 PT .051 x 4.200 not round 11.86cc
Fel-pro 9061 PT .061 x 4.200 not round 14.20cc
SCE M343239 .039" x 4.325" 9.389cc
Cometic Gaskets C5835-027 .027 x 4.25 6.277cc
Cometic Gaskets C5834-030 .030 x 4.165 6.698cc
Cometic Gaskets C5835-040 .040 x 4.25 9.299cc
Cometic Gaskets C5840-051 .051 x 4.44 12.708cc
Trick Flow TFS-56494080-040 .040 x 4.08 8.570cc
Trick Flow TFS-56494165-040 .040 x 4.165 8.931cc
Clevite 3389 .050 x 4.33 12.065cc
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A couple of random thoughts here:
1. Bore size doesn't affect the compression ratio like thickness.
2. I prefer the gasket bore to be close to the cylinder bore, but not close enough so that the fire ring gets into the cylinder when hot.
3. Aluminum heads don't need a special gasket.
4. Some aluminum blocks need a special gasket as the fire ring matches up to the sleeve and helps if the sleeve drops slightly below deck. A 1020 fits a lot of aftermarket aluminum blocks well.
5. An 8554 gasket works very well in a lot of applications. When I use them I will let the piston hang out .010". They compress to about .050-.051" here.
6. Gasket thickness depends on quench distance.
In most cases, I will either run an 8554, 1020, or a Cometic. I do have some new SCE MLS gaskets in here that I plan to use soon. They are a 4.325" and 4.400" bore, with .039" thicknesses. Those seem to be good combinations in dimensions. The MLS gaskets work well with boost and also are offered in many thicknesses for use with aluminum rods, etc. They will be more reliable in thicknesses. There are a lot more Cometic gaskets offered than what you have shown.
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Yes, there are a LOT more head gaskets, I kinda stopped at the ~ $100 each mark. I was looking for a affordable .060
I also forgot to ask about the original Ford, steel shim gaskets. you can still find them on Ebay and swap meets. Does anyone know what the diameter and cc capacity is of those? I used them when I was a mechanic and don't remember any issues with them. We had blown head gaskets but, that was only after a sever over heat.
The 8554 is used a lot and I've got some to use. I thought their capacity would be a quick answer. As a guess, I would say ~ 11.5cc?
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Yes, there are a LOT more head gaskets, I kinda stopped at the ~ $100 each mark. I was looking for a affordable .060
I also forgot to ask about the original Ford, steel shim gaskets. you can still find them on Ebay and swap meets. Does anyone know what the diameter and cc capacity is of those? I used them when I was a mechanic and don't remember any issues with them. We had blown head gaskets but, that was only after a sever over heat.
The 8554 is used a lot and I've got some to use. I thought their capacity would be a quick answer. As a guess, I would say ~ 11.5cc?
Cometic will have the .060" gaskets, but I suppose affordable is relative. They will be close to $180 a pair.
You're probably ballpark on the 8554. I would use a 4.325-4.330 bore size with a .050" compressed thickness as data. The bores are not round, but bore size doesn't make a dent in the compression ratio like thickness does. Holding the thickness constant, changing the volume from 4.320-4.350" only decreases the compression ratio by .02 points.
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Yes, there are a LOT more head gaskets, I kinda stopped at the ~ $100 each mark. I was looking for a affordable .060
I also forgot to ask about the original Ford, steel shim gaskets. you can still find them on Ebay and swap meets. Does anyone know what the diameter and cc capacity is of those? I used them when I was a mechanic and don't remember any issues with them. We had blown head gaskets but, that was only after a sever over heat.
The 8554 is used a lot and I've got some to use. I thought their capacity would be a quick answer. As a guess, I would say ~ 11.5cc?
The Ford gaskets as best I can remember .030 for the B9AE gaskets don't know what the gasket bore was but were to be used up to 4.13 bore blocks not on the 4.23 bore 427's there was a similar gasket with a C2AE number that was .015 available for the 406's,when the 427 came out a new gasket was made in 2 thickness both with C3AE numbers with different suffixes that I can't remember 1 was .030 which was typically the 1 installed at the factory the other was .015 and was usually sold over the counter,I don't know what the bore dimension is on that one either I don't think it was round anyway,I know the earlier ones weren't.
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Frank, I am close to Brent, I use .053/4.36 for the 8554
When you start looking at small bore gaskets be sure to look at chamber dimensions too, very few, if any factory iron chambers are as small as a 390 bore. Easy to get a gasket with areas without full fire ring compression
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Cometic fan here.. Only expensive for the initial purchase but can be reused. Anyone know how many times? I know of some numbers that would be called BS however I'm not talking about longevity here. 1020's a good all round gasket.
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Cometic fan here.. Only expensive for the initial purchase but can be reused. Anyone know how many times? I know of some numbers that would be called BS however I'm not talking about longevity here. 1020's a good all round gasket.
I will reuse 1-2 more times. After the initial installation and tear-down, I'll spray with copper coat and throw on again.
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I did some measuring today. My 1958, machine combustion chambers are 4.125, at their widest point and my 8554PT gaskets, measure 4.570 to the corners of the gasket, 4.330 at the closest point, between cylinders and 4.325 vertically. That's a average of 4.408 so, I will call it 4.400 x .051, and will call the volume at 12.71cc. I think that will be pretty accurate, at least, until a official volume can be cited.
I think the Mahle/Clevite 3389, might be a better low cost choice than the 8554's for many.
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I did some measuring today. My 1958, machine combustion chambers are 4.125, at their widest point and my 8554PT gaskets, measure 4.570 to the corners of the gasket, 4.330 at the closest point, between cylinders and 4.325 vertically. That's a average of 4.408 so, I will call it 4.400 x .051, and will call the volume at 12.71cc. I think that will be pretty accurate, at least, until a official volume can be cited.
I think the Mahle/Clevite 3389, might be a better low cost choice than the 8554's for many.
I wouldn't put too much effort into trying to figure out the diameter. The difference between a .051" 4.320" gasket and a .051" 4.570" gasket is only .12 points or .089cc.
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You should add the Fel Pro 8045 PT and the 9061 PT. Heavy duty truck gaskets. They will compress to .051 and .061, respectively. Not quite round, but mostly a 4.200 bore. Very good gaskets.
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Thank you, Blair. I'll check them out.
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I think the 9061’s are in the process of being discontinued.
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They seem to be the perfect head gasket for my build and give me just what I want compression wise. Because they are not round, I used 4.25 to calculate their capacity.
I ordered a set today.
Thank you, Blair.
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Frank, are your pistons sitting proud? If I understand the thread, you chose the .061 head gasket, wondering the reason.
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Ross, this is the combo but, a big part of the reason I started this thread, was to give everyone a accurate data base, for FE head gaskets, so they could make the best selection for their particular builds. I think it's important to know what the actual head gasket capacity is and found that the popular 8554 is near the bottom of desirability for what I'm interested in. I have a pair for sale now :)
I'd still like to get accurate figures for the Edelbrock gasket. Do you have any personal experience as to how much it compresses?
I would also like to have info on the old steel shim Ford gaskets, both .030 and .015. If anyone has a used one in good shape, I'd pay the shipping to get it so, I can do some measuring.
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Frank, I do not remember my Edelbrock experience from 2006, but I didn't use them because they weren't as advertised at .038. For the life of me I can't remember how thick they were, but were thicker and maybe not an accurate bore size. Heck I don't remember LOL
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Ross, this is the combo but, a big part of the reason I started this thread, was to give everyone a accurate data base, for FE head gaskets, so they could make the best selection for their particular builds. I think it's important to know what the actual head gasket capacity is and found that the popular 8554 is near the bottom of desirability for what I'm interested in. I have a pair for sale now :)
I'd still like to get accurate figures for the Edelbrock gasket. Do you have any personal experience as to how much it compresses?
I would also like to have info on the old steel shim Ford gaskets, both .030 and .015. If anyone has a used one in good shape, I'd pay the shipping to get it so, I can do some measuring.
It's an excellent gasket, but just wouldn't work with an engine with the pistons hanging out .020".
I think I have an Edelbrock gasket hanging somewhere, I'll measure it, but I remember it being a lot thicker than .038" as well. Like close to .050" or so.
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It's an excellent gasket, but just wouldn't work with an engine with the pistons hanging out .020".
What I was going to do with the 8554, was cut the tops .008-.010. The Truck gasket saves me from doing that and having to make soft jaws to hold the pistons.
I'm going to do a Member Project, with this '58 Edsel engine in a week or two. It's in the hot tank right now and the machine work will come very slow.
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It's an excellent gasket, but just wouldn't work with an engine with the pistons hanging out .020".
What I was going to do with the 8554, was cut the tops .008-.010. The Truck gasket saves me from doing that and having to make soft jaws to hold the pistons.
I'm going to do a Member Project, with this '58 Edsel engine in a week or two. It's in the hot tank right now and the machine work will come very slow.
Do you have an accurate way of measuring the decks? I've never seen any FE block clean up at 10.170". I've seen some be out .020" from end to end of a deck.
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I do.
I'll put it on my surface plate, to get the deck height. I'll do that both before and after it's line honed. I have to do the hone, it has one miss matched main cap. I'm hoping not to have to deck it but, we'll see. Each trip to the machine shop, is about a 1.5 to 2 month wait. I'll also verify the piston protrusion.
This will be a very inexpensive but, accurate rebuild. I'll list the the parts and dimensions and mods, as I go.
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I do.
I'll put it on my surface plate, to get the deck height. I'll do that both before and after it's line honed. I have to do the hone, it has one miss matched main cap. I'm hoping not to have to deck it but, we'll see. Each trip to the machine shop, is about a 1.5 to 2 month wait. I'll also verify the piston protrusion.
This will be a very inexpensive but, accurate rebuild. I'll list the the parts and dimensions and mods, as I go.
If it's at the machine shop, I'd let them measure the deck height while it's there. I think there's an extremely good chance that the block will need to be cut. Also, I've seen factory deck heights be below 10.170" as well. Even new aftermarket blocks can be all over the place.
If the shop it's at has a BHJ fixture, you can measure the deck height about as close as you can read a micrometer. The fixture locates off the main/cam tunnels and has a solid plate that is located between the two. With the included mic, you measure the distance from the deck to the plate.
I've also seen some shops use a piece of round bar in the main saddle and then use a large mic to measure from the deck to the round bar and then subtract, but it's not accurate, maybe +/-.005-.006". Remember, with your 352 factory rods, etc., there will be tolerances in part lengths, most likely a lot larger than new aftermarket stuff.
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I can measure the deck height, to +/- .00025 on my surface plate, using my height gauge and to .000050 using my Height Master gauge.
That is measured from the deck, to the bearing bore C/L on each side. All measurements with be done to aircraft/areospace manufacturing standards. That is what my business supported as a sub-contractor for Erickson Air Crane.
Yes, I do know about tolerances, the long rod is 6.538/6.542 and i need new bushings in them. I haven't measured the big end yet but, it's 2.5907-2.5915. My pistons were suppose to have a CH of 1.660 but, they actually are 1.6575.
Thanks for the tips.
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I can measure the deck height, to +/- .00025 on my surface plate, using my height gauge and to .000050 using my Height Master gauge.
That is measured from the deck, to the bearing bore C/L on each side. All measurements with be done to aircraft/areospace manufacturing standards. That is what my business supported as a sub-contractor for Erickson Air Crane.
Yes, I do know about tolerances, the long rod is 6.538/6.542 and i need new bushings in them. I haven't measured the big end yet but, it's 2.5907-2.5915. My pistons were suppose to have a CH of 1.660 but, they actually are 1.6575.
Thanks for the tips.
Here's a couple of things that may bite you there:
1. The deck will not be flat and square, so you're holding a piece that's not straight/flat up to a machined surface. You can make a pass on the deck to have a machined surface against a machined surface, but then how much do you take off?? There's nothing straight/square/flat about a factory FE block and all 4 corners have the potential to be all whopper jawed, or cattywampassed, whichever term you prefer.
2. The deck surfaces are out front to back (alternator to bellhousing) and are also out side to side (intake to exhaust). I assume if you're measuring to the housing bore, you're planning on using a machined piece in the bore so that you can measure to the outside diameter of it, then subtract to get to the centerline, but you also need to be measuring to the intake and exhaust sides of the of deck and you can't do that reliably because only the centerpoint of the deck is inline with the centerline of the crankshaft.
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Frank, good luck, and in the end, if nothing hits, life is good enough to run. However, like Brent, I have never seen a flat or square FE block at 10.170. The good thing is, if you think you are an an average 10.170 with a plate with .041 clearance, you probably have .004-.005 to play with and it likely will only affect gasket crush along the run. not interference
FWIW, on a stock block, and Brent and I see the same, I find dips in the middle, canted every which way, and often the surface is a sine wave, low at the water ports, climbs to 1/2 or 5/6, drops away again, then climbs and dips.... then picture that whole wave twisted to boot.
I actually had one budget rebuild that a machinist (I no longer use for various reasons) called "good" ...bolted it up and water poured out of the head gasket at #5 above the PS pump during initial fill. It wasn't as crooked as you would think, but the uncut deck dropped away enough that it didn't seal. I think he should have caught it, and rarely do I not cut (almost never now) but he claimed it just dropped away in a small area and he missed it. Yes, he did LOL and I didn't back him up either and wasted a LOT of time
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This is all a bit premature and OT, it's best suited to when I open the Member Project thread.
I started this thread to talk about head gaskets and provide info for them to the other members here, to help with their builds. I'd also like to hear about problems, regarding any particular head gaskets.
I'd much rather hear about this, at this time:
I think I have an Edelbrock gasket hanging somewhere, I'll measure it, but I remember it being a lot thicker than .038" as well. Like close to .050" or so.
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This is all a bit premature and OT, it's best suited to when I open the Member Project thread.
I started this thread to talk about head gaskets and provide info for them to the other members here, to help with their builds. I'd also like to hear about problems, regarding any particular head gaskets.
I'd much rather hear about this, at this time:
I think I have an Edelbrock gasket hanging somewhere, I'll measure it, but I remember it being a lot thicker than .038" as well. Like close to .050" or so.
I looked for one, Frank, and I don't have one. I do remember it was nowhere close to being .038" though.
There aren't a lot of topics about head gaskets because the 1020 and 8554 serve most purposes. In extreme applications, or funky thicknesses, the Cometics are what most guys reach for. My advice is to always get the block fully machined, measure parts, and then step back to see what gaskets are needed. It usually falls around the 1020 or 8554.
In your scenario, my guess is that the block will need whacked at least .010" if not more and you'll need something besides a .060" gasket.
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It looks to me that the Clevite 3389 .050 x 4.33 12.065cc or Fel-Pro 8045 PT .051 x 4.200 not round est 11.86cc might be a better choice if your trying for as much compression as possible with a .050 gasket.
Have you tried either of them?
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It looks to me that the Clevite 3389 .050 x 4.33 12.065cc or Fel-Pro 8045 PT .051 x 4.200 not round est 11.86cc might be a better choice if your trying for as much compression as possible with a .050 gasket.
Have you tried either of them?
No sir, sure haven't.
Also, the difference between a 4.200 x .050" and a 4.350 x .050" is only .07 of a compression point. Not .7, but .07. The gasket bore just doesn't make any difference.
I did look up the .060" felpro gasket and I think it's being done away with. I know the 1020 and the 8554 are always available.
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This is all a bit premature and OT, it's best suited to when I open the Member Project thread.
I started this thread to talk about head gaskets and provide info for them to the other members here, to help with their builds. I'd also like to hear about problems, regarding any particular head gaskets.
I'd much rather hear about this, at this time:
I think I have an Edelbrock gasket hanging somewhere, I'll measure it, but I remember it being a lot thicker than .038" as well. Like close to .050" or so.
Well we all tend to comment on what we have seen in the past, and yours rang a few bells. That being said, I haven't strayed far from the Felpro gaskets. Reliable and easy on the street builds I do. I also haven't had a head gasket issue if the deck was straight, even with Enginetech ultra-cheapos (only used once, farm truck valve job, supplied by owner, didn't care thickness)
Rip open that wallet Frank, buy a pile from Rock Auto and start measuring!
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Well Ross, I have a machinist back ground, some skill at math and I'm inquisitive. I've never been someone to do something, just because someone else does it or it's the popular thing to do. If I'm interested in something, I always want to know "why". I've always had a racers mentality, from as far back as 12 years old and look for that last bit of advantage or strive to get as close as possible to the rules, w/o braking them.
Compression is one of the best and fastest ways of making HP. From what I've seen, most do not consider the area, from the top ring to the top of the piston, in their calculation of CR, leaving 1 to 1.5cc out of their total chamber. As a racer, there is no way I would leave .07 of CR, off the table. If X CR = some amount of HP, then X/CR = another amount.
I did not do this for HP, I did this for quench and to keep my CR below 10/1, knowing what my actual CR is so, I can use most pump gas, with my valve and ignition timing. I did this thread, because I thought it would be interesting and valuable for others and I was hoping that I could get some blanks filled in.
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Well Ross, I have a machinist back ground, some skill at math and I'm inquisitive. I've never been someone to do something, just because someone else does it or it's the popular thing to do. If I'm interested in something, I always want to know "why". I've always had a racers mentality, from as far back as 12 years old and look for that last bit of advantage or strive to get as close as possible to the rules, w/o braking them.
Compression is one of the best and fastest ways of making HP. From what I've seen, most do not consider the area, from the top ring to the top of the piston, in their calculation of CR, leaving 1 to 1.5cc out of their total chamber. As a racer, there is no way I would leave .07 of CR, off the table. If X CR = some amount of HP, then X/CR = another amount.
I did not do this for HP, I did this for quench and to keep my CR below 10/1, knowing what my actual CR is so, I can use most pump gas, with my valve and ignition timing. I did this thread, because I thought it would be interesting and valuable for others and I was hoping that I could get some blanks filled in.
Frank, your chambers will vary by a lot more than .07 points and if your block isn’t perfectly machined, it’s gonna vary by a much greater degree, and on differing cylinders. Even your crevice volume will differ depending on the lengths of your connecting rods.
I think you’re splitting extremely small hairs on head gaskets when the other facets are like splitting tree trunks. What are you going to do when those head gaskets compress to .050" on one and .052" on the other? You going to re-bush and resize your rods when the lengths vary by .002-.003"? You're not working with high quality, precision, aftermarket pistons and rods. Your crankshaft stroke can even vary.
You could go from 10:1 to 11:1 and not see 15 hp difference so I wouldn't be worried about .07 of a point. I don't even think you can read a meniscus on a burette to that degree of precision. You certainly can't measure that head gasket bore that accurately unless you mock it up and pour it, or sit down and do some integral calculus. Your actual compression ratio is going to be a big bunch of variables until that block is measured, all the chambers are measured, pistons are poured, and everything else is measured. Entering theoretical numbers into a calculator is not precision engine building.
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Well Ross, I have a machinist back ground, some skill at math and I'm inquisitive. I've never been someone to do something, just because someone else does it or it's the popular thing to do. If I'm interested in something, I always want to know "why". I've always had a racers mentality, from as far back as 12 years old and look for that last bit of advantage or strive to get as close as possible to the rules, w/o braking them.
Compression is one of the best and fastest ways of making HP. From what I've seen, most do not consider the area, from the top ring to the top of the piston, in their calculation of CR, leaving 1 to 1.5cc out of their total chamber. As a racer, there is no way I would leave .07 of CR, off the table. If X CR = some amount of HP, then X/CR = another amount.
I did not do this for HP, I did this for quench and to keep my CR below 10/1, knowing what my actual CR is so, I can use most pump gas, with my valve and ignition timing. I did this thread, because I thought it would be interesting and valuable for others and I was hoping that I could get some blanks filled in.
Frank, nice thing about the internet and the garage, everyone can do their own thing. I say have fun, I don't need to know why, but certainly can see what you are doing with the pistons proud and how you got there.
Guys who build nice stuff think about crevice volume, and if you do too, better. In some cases I have even played around with squish/dish surface area ratio and D-cup vs dish calculation, and realized in that case, it didn't mean much at small numbers. I am with Brent though that there is more substantial improvements to be made with machine work, but your circus, your monkeys to butcher an old Polish saying. (The Polish saying is "not my circus, not my monkeys", meaning none of my business...)
As an input, I do not know if your calculator adjusts the top ring land height to the negative deck clearance, but if you are getting that fussy, may want to run the volume numbers yourself and see
In the end though, Brent gave you some good info. Our comments may not apply to the actual head gasket discussion, but it's good info, and it's free. Guys like him, me and other builders on this forum making good power on small cams, pump gas, high vacuum really look close at how the block is machined to get there and are passing our experience. I just wanted to point out you may not be as consistent as you are calculating without a squared block and mains, along with the other things Brent mentioned
I meant it though, and not as a jab, Rock Auto is cheap, buy every option, measure, smell, taste, you name it, and tell us ... love to hear what you find.
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Brent, this always happens when you get evolved with any post or thread that, I do.
To begin with, yes, this is theory for now but, I do have the ability to measure almost anything. The heads have machined chambers, that are suppose to be 72cc. I haven't measured them yet but, I expect them to cc more closely than cast chambers.
I can split hairs on cc's. I don't use a burette. cc is based on the weight of water and I weight the distilled water. I will measure the protrusion of the pistons and if need be, machine them, to what ever distance I want. I could also machine the bushings, installed in the rods, to the same length, before honing but, that requires 2 trips to the machine shop.
Does it bother you that I split hairs? I don't have as many as I use to :(
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Brent, this always happens when you get evolved with any post or thread that, I do.
To begin with, yes, this is theory for now but, I do have the ability to measure almost anything. The heads have machined chambers, that are suppose to be 72cc. I haven't measured them yet but, I expect them to cc more closely than cast chambers.
I can split hairs on cc's. I don't use a burette. cc is based on the weight of water and I weight the distilled water. I will measure the protrusion of the pistons and if need be, machine them, to what ever distance I want. I could also machine the bushings, installed in the rods, to the same length, before honing but, that requires 2 trips to the machine shop.
Does it bother you that I split hairs? I don't have as many as I use to :(
Me either. I'm bald as a cue ball.
Frank, nothing you do bothers me, but you're not an engine builder and I'm trying to help you out. You're working with a bunch of used, factory parts, express no desire to machine the block correctly, and are worried about the bore size of a head gasket that will basically be immeasurable.
You do you, fam.
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If you trying to help me out, Brent, do it with head gasket info. That's what this thread is about.
Get a set of those Edelbrocks, put them on your 359 and and torque them, tell us what it is. That would be helping and maybe it will also help you in a build, down the road.
Send me a set of both, Ford steel shim gaskets I asked about (I'll pay the postage), that would also help me.
If I find that I have to deck the block, I'll do so but, not until I measure it.
As I said, this about head gaskets, not engine building. You'll have your chance when I open the Project thread. Until then, please help with this thread about head gaskets. That would be helping and appreciated.
If you only want to use 2 head gaskets, that's fine with me but, if someone else, wants to use something they think fits their build, a little better, why not let them, if the quench is safe?
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If you trying to help me out, Brent, do it with head gasket info. That's what this thread is about.
Get a set of those Edelbrocks, put them on your 359 and and torque them, tell us what it is. That would be helping and maybe it will also help you in a build, down the road.
Send me a set of both, Ford steel shim gaskets I asked about (I'll pay the postage), that would also help me.
If I find that I have to deck the block, I'll do so but, not until I measure it.
As I said, this about head gaskets, not engine building. You'll have your chance when I open the Project thread. Until then, please help with this thread about head gaskets. That would be helping and appreciated.
If you only want to use 2 head gaskets, that's fine with me but, if someone else, wants to use something they think fits their build, a little better, why not let them, if the quench is safe?
Sorry Frank, there hasn't been a set of steel shim gaskets here since I've been in business. Don't use them, don't want to, as that means the pistons are down in the hole and I don't run them that way.
I'm 99.9999992% sure that those Edelbrocks measured at like .050-.051", but you're more than welcome to get a set and try them out. The 352 got 1020's with the pistons .005-.006 out of the hole and the heads are at Joe's right now.
I understand your logic in wanting a cheap .060" gasket. With the pistons .020" out, you don't have that many options. But you may have been premature in pulling the trigger on them since you haven't measured anything yet. Regardless, if they were cheap enough, it's worth keeping a set as I don't expect them to be offered much longer. As for the other .050" gasket that was mentioned, there's not enough difference between it and an 8554 to go chasing them.
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Thanks for starting the thread, Frank. It is not something I had thought to do. Don't let grumpy old men bother you. I don't have much to add except I have always been a Felpro 1020 man myself. Good thickness for zero deck, big enough bore for most
any FE, and they have never failed me.
pl
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I was not a "grumpy old man" until I kept reading this banter over and over. Now I just glance to see who "got the last word in". Joe-JDC
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Said before I’ll say it again.
It’s very difficult to express the correct feeling/attitude/whatever with the written word.
One person reads a statement as an explanation, another reads it as a tongue lashing.
In reading MOST of the battles here and on the old site it was more times than not a misunderstanding of the writer’s intention that sparked the melee.
We all love the same thing. Some of us make a living at it and have quite a bit of first hand knowledge as they do it every day.
We should all default to giving the writer a break because WE ALL LOVE THE SAME THING.
Sorry I yelled there :)
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I was not a "grumpy old man" until I kept reading this banter over and over. Now I just glance to see who "got the last word in". Joe-JDC
Me too, well said Joe
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Thought I'd jump on this before it fell off the front page. I have a couple of other head gaskets to throw in.
The first one is the SCE Titan solid copper with silicone imprinting and a wire-in-fire-ring (like a 1020 Felpro). They are still available new in various thicknesses. I ran the ones pictured when I first put together my 8-71 blown 454 inch motor. They worked fine as far as sealing in compression, but they did weep a very slight amount of coolant and oil. It is totally possible that it was caused by my block prep.
The second ones I could use some help from the old farts here for some info. They are what I ass-u-me to be some old Mr. Gasket copper-asbestos sandwich jobs. I bought them from Ron Miller in the '80's because I thought they looked cool. I have seen several sets of these for FE motors over the years, and have seen them for Pontiacs and Chevys as well. Has anybody ever run them? They obviously fell out of favor some time in the '70's and have been out of production for a very long time.
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Copper asbestos like the old flathead gaskets. The oldtimers say you
Can reuse them if you boil them that make the asbestos layer to swell