FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: bsprowl on May 11, 2020, 05:46:45 PM
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My new house doesn't have a shop. I'm in the process of building one.
My F-250 had a miss that the code indicated was a bad plug or coil. I had the plugs changed at 305,000; now has 397,000.
Dealer estimate was $350 plus a half hour labor for each spark plug that stripped coming out. Told me one of the bolts holding down a coil stripped .
WTF!!!
The truck had regular servicing by my last employer who sold it to me a year ago.
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My new house doesn't have a shop. I'm in the process of building one.
My F-250 had a miss that the code indicated was a bad plug or coil. I had the plugs changed at 305,000; now has 397,000.
Dealer estimate was $350 plus a half hour labor for each spark plug that stripped coming out. Told me one of the bolts holding down a coil stripped .
WTF!!!
The truck had regular servicing by my last employer who sold it to me a year ago.
Wait a minute. Did you actually have this done yet?
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I've repaired the spark plug threads on a lot of mod motors and never had to do all 8, especially if they've been serviced regularly. I think the worst ones I've done are early V10's in work trucks and F600's and even then I haven't done all of them unless someone requested it.
Hopefully they didn't just do the work and then hand you a bill for work you didn't fully authorize.
1600 bucks is half the cost of a nice 2 post to put in your new shop!
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The bill included R&R of the intake manifold which I DID NOT authorize. I walked out mad (should have taken the bill with me so I could read it more closely). Told them I would be back in the morning.
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The bill included R&R of the intake manifold which I DID NOT authorize. I walked out mad (should have taken the bill with me so I could read it more closely). Told them I would be back in the morning.
Why in blazes would they do that? This dealer is ripping you off big time. If the plugs were changed 100k ago, they would have the revised design and should have been installed with anti-seize per Ford spec. Nice and easy removal. I've changed the coils, injectors, plugs on my 5.4. No outside labor needed. No broken parts or stripped threads. The 5.4 guru is https://www.youtube.com/user/FordTechMakuloco
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A 2000 would be a 2 valve. They didn't have the spark plug seizing problem, they had a problem with the plugs coming loose and blowing out. Sometimes when they blew out they took the threads with them. A heli-coil usually fixes that. I don't know why they would take the intake off. Exhaust manifolds were a problem, are you sure they didn't do that and not an intake.
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Some Ford dealers are now part of conglomerates who own other dealerships including foreign brands. Their customer relations are like Godzilla vs boy with a squirt gun. Happened to the local Ford dealer here.
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I would file a complaint with my state attorney general and consumer protection agency.
This is nothing more then a total rip off.
I have quit dealerships I worked at in the past for doing this very thing.
Greg
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Unfortunately a common issue on Ford mod motors....internet info leads you to believe they fixed it on V10's in '02 but I am hear to tell you they did not. My '03 warped a head, different story, and got both heads done....had I known about the plug issue at the time I would have had inserts put in while they were on the bench...but no. Blew one about 20 miles from home at 4:15 going duck hunting. Thought I blew a rod honestly....figured it out and up-lugged the injector and went home. Never threw a code until I pulled it into the garage to fix it! I used a mid level kit that has a reamer, tap, and guide with nice inserts.
Took about two hours start to finish...took longer to get it on TDC than anything. Intake should not have to come off, on my V10 the back would be hard to do though...not sure on a 5.4.
Some will cringe but I put all new plugs in, and red Loctite on them. What happens is the plugs get loose from heat cycles, then start vibrating and eat the few threads up and spit the plug. My theory was eliminate this and if it does not work, so what, you have to ream the hole anyway to do the job correctly. Fingers crossed a plug does not go bad. Granted I don't see my truck going another 100K miles, has 105,000 on the clock now. I can't believe yours made it that long!
Ford really dropped the ball on this aspect, and head bolt suppliers circa 03.
Good luck at the dealer....around here that is 300-500 job...at least a few years ago.
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Must have been one of the coil bolts at the rear under the cab. The passenger side is hard to get to.
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Must have been one of the coil bolts at the rear under the cab. The passenger side is hard to get to.
Yeah, I usually remove the PCM's and bracket to work on #4. Good design, Ford!
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A 2000 would be a 2 valve. They didn't have the spark plug seizing problem, they had a problem with the plugs coming loose and blowing out. Sometimes when they blew out they took the threads with them. A heli-coil usually fixes that. I don't know why they would take the intake off. Exhaust manifolds were a problem, are you sure they didn't do that and not an intake.
I'm gonna bet they claim there was a crack in one runner that leaned out that cylinder, causing the misfire code.
My truck does eat coils. Ford or aftermarket, doesn't matter. The scuttle is that they just heat up too much from being a true coil-on-plug. I was considering rigging a coil bank for each side and running wires to the plugs, like the LS [cough, wheez,] setup. Make sense?
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I was considering rigging a coil bank for each side and running wires to the plugs, like the LS [cough, wheez,] setup.
Be careful FElony, thinking outside the box will get you in trouble....Ford would not have engineered it that way if it did not work, right? I mean who do you think you are to use that thing between your shoulders for the betterment of mechanics....you have to have mile long titles and schooling for all that....and to speak the words L....S....
You may be on to something, could be a million dollar idea ...hmmm.... "Coil Savers"...I want royalties.
Someone needs to go back in time and slap the person who only put room for three/four threads in a spark plug hole.
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I believe that is a high figure but, a big but, labor here is $110/hour. Does not take long to get the bill up in the stratosphere. The dealer should have asked before doing the work, pretty simple. One can complain , but usually doesn't put any money back in your pocket.
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Be careful FElony, thinking outside the box will get you in trouble....Ford would not have engineered it that way if it did not work, right? I mean who do you think you are to use that thing between your shoulders for the betterment of mechanics....you have to have mile long titles and schooling for all that....and to speak the words L....S....
You may be on to something, could be a million dollar idea ...hmmm.... "Coil Savers"...I want royalties.
Someone needs to go back in time and slap the person who only put room for three/four threads in a spark plug hole.
Yep, some people would rather I don't think at all. Just be a mindless automaton. Do as all the others do. FElony Chang? Has a ring to it.
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Turns out it was a pre-approval authorization. The new service writer didn't explain it correctly.
Two coil hold down bolt holes are stripped and the intake should be replaced since the brass inserts in the plastic intake can't be repaired.
I told them NO way and took the truck home. I had to pay to replace the 3 plugs they did install and for an hour of troubleshooting @ $130/hr.
I'll fix it myself when the shop is done.
Bob
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Not an approved repair, but I've had a few of those inserts spin in the intakes (or EVERY Cummins crankcase filter base I've changed). I pull them out or grind a bit of plastic away and epoxy them back in. As long as you don't install the intake with a 1/2" impact it usually works.
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Not an approved repair, but I've had a few of those inserts spin in the intakes (or EVERY Cummins crankcase filter base I've changed). I pull them out or grind a bit of plastic away and epoxy them back in. As long as you don't install the intake with a 1/2" impact it usually works.
This man speaks the truth. Put this advice in your tool box.
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I haven't done the plugs in the 5.4, don't see the need at 149K. But my go-to dealer is $140/hr plus parts and the repair kit - easy $750 plus with a couple of breakages. The advice is "repair the cylinder that has a problem, they'll run 200K well enough". So far, that's how it works. Had one coil replaced, didn't hurt the plug. I know the Master at that dealer and he can get them R&Rd, typically without breakage - but it takes time. Time = $.
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A 2000 would be a 2 valve. They didn't have the spark plug seizing problem, they had a problem with the plugs coming loose and blowing out. Sometimes when they blew out they took the threads with them. A heli-coil usually fixes that. I don't know why they would take the intake off. Exhaust manifolds were a problem, are you sure they didn't do that and not an intake.
I'm gonna bet they claim there was a crack in one runner that leaned out that cylinder, causing the misfire code.
My truck does eat coils. Ford or aftermarket, doesn't matter. The scuttle is that they just heat up too much from being a true coil-on-plug. I was considering rigging a coil bank for each side and running wires to the plugs, like the LS [cough, wheez,] setup. Make sense?
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A 2000 would be a 2 valve. They didn't have the spark plug seizing problem, they had a problem with the plugs coming loose and blowing out. Sometimes when they blew out they took the threads with them. A heli-coil usually fixes that. I don't know why they would take the intake off. Exhaust manifolds were a problem, are you sure they didn't do that and not an intake.
I'm gonna bet they claim there was a crack in one runner that leaned out that cylinder, causing the misfire code.
My truck does eat coils. Ford or aftermarket, doesn't matter. The scuttle is that they just heat up too much from being a true coil-on-plug. I was considering rigging a coil bank for each side and running wires to the plugs, like the LS [cough, wheez,] setup. Make sense?
My ECTA engine (Lincoln LS---Jaguar design, true COP) also went through factory coils to a surprising extent. The coils sit down in a well and there is a sheet-metal cover over the entire area, running down the middle of the cam cover. It seems to be generally accepted that the heat from being so enclosed is doing the damage. I replaced the coils with aftermarket coils from Accel. They're larger and I left off the enveloping cover as well. I also regularly changed plugs. That has been because I race running a witches brew of C16, Methanol, and nitrous oxide. Better safe than sorry on the plugs.
I'm done racing that combination, but had plans to change and go to the individual coils with a plug-wire pigtail such as is offered by Mercury Marine. The coils are twice the size of COPs and even more exposed to circulating air for cooling purposes.
KS
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I haven't done the plugs in the 5.4, don't see the need at 149K. But my go-to dealer is $140/hr plus parts and the repair kit - easy $750 plus with a couple of breakages. The advice is "repair the cylinder that has a problem, they'll run 200K well enough". So far, that's how it works. Had one coil replaced, didn't hurt the plug. I know the Master at that dealer and he can get them R&Rd, typically without breakage - but it takes time. Time = $.
Is this a 2V or 3V? If it's a 3V, they're not as bad to do as you think. I'll give you my secret on those. Use a 3/8" air impact and don't let off the trigger till the plug is all the way out or it has finished separating the body. I can usually get all 8 out without breakage. For the broken ones, I have the last iteration of the Lisle extractor. Last broken plug I did about 2 weeks ago took less than 5 mins. to remove. At any rate, I certainly would not heed the advise of letting them go to 200k. I have seen on the 3V plugs around 150k, that the ground straps get paper thin. Not to mention the extra stress on the coils...
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Uh, cringe. :o
I got the call one day years back, my sisters mustang had a problem. Got it to my buddy's shop and determined it popped a plug. Oh geez. He had the tools, reamer, tap, insert. It was a relatively easy fix, few hours and back on the road> Whew.
Friend had '02 f250 v10 and it puked a plug one day going to the race track. He limped it home that night and sent it back to the car dealer where he bought it used. Seems they replaced the plugs before purchasing. They fixed it no charge! Whew. He drove it for a few more years without issue before trading it in.
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I have a 3 valve V10, just the engine. I looked up the price of plugs, they wanted $20 each... A couple hundred bucks in spark plugs for my beloved FEs would last me forever!
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I think Chris from Merkel was joking. The mod plugs are 100,000 plugs. I have seen some start to misfire around 93,000 but not uncommon to see them last to 110,000 miles.