FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: yellercat on April 27, 2020, 09:32:14 AM
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First 390 is on the floor and going into a 69' F250 with a C-6.
Have ordered new flywheel bolts and did not disassemble either the engine (or the truck), so the simple question is whether a reinforcement ring is required with the flexplate?
Presuming also that threadlocker and no washers is appropriate. All comments appreciated. Really ;D
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Yes, the ring is a critical component. You may experience stress fractures in the plate holes without the ring. Threadlocker is recommended.
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X2 what Gerry said.
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Thought that might be the case, thank you.
Bot the engine apart so tho I got a bellhousing and flywheel, there was no reinforcement ring for the flexplate. :P
Thanks Gents!
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what is part # for the reinforcement ring? I think I need to get one as well
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Actually, in the early 80s I worked at a production engine shop, installing the new engines in customers vehicles, and at that time we did quite a few 360 & 390 Ford PU trucks, as well as some 330/361/391 FTs in cab overs, Louisvilles and 5 ton style F series trucks. I did several 75 &76 Ford pickups, and was suprised to see that there was new reinforcement ring for the flexplate bolts, and the bolts themselves were a bit shorter. So perhaps, towards the end of FE production, they stopped installing the rings? I do know that I seen enough of them that it was unlikely that there were this many that had the rings removed during say a transmission rebuild.
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what is part # for the reinforcement ring? I think I need to get one as well
The Ford part number is B9AZ-6A366-B. That was for a package of 3, which is how Ford serviced them at the end. Slight chance you might find one at your Ford dealer if they didn’t use up their package of 3. The same reinforcement ring also was used on MEL engines and early 429/460’s. If you search that part number on EBay you can usually turn up some originals.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXZDrKhJ/60-EF6-DB8-000-C-4155-9743-628-DEEB0-A8-C4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8r7LJTH)
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...So perhaps, towards the end of FE production, they stopped installing the rings? ...
They did. In the early '70s is what I recall reading historical literature. I know when Ford quit using the ring, they spec'd a shorter flywheel bolt. So, if you don't use the ring but are reusing the factory bolts, just something to keep in mind. So, you have them dropping the ring and a shorter bolt. What I don't know is if there was a material change in the flywheel so that the ring wouldn't be necessary, or if they just said "screw it, we can save one penny if we dump the ring."
And this ring thing isn't just an FE thing. All Ford products with an automatic used the ring. It might be easier to understand this by researching the ring for the smallblocks.
Unless it's a later application, I believe the ring is necessary since the bolts don't use a washer and, again, I don't know why they stopped using it. I don't think you'd die and go to hell if you didn't use one, but you never know. They must have had some fractures in testing, so along came the ring.
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I have a Performance Automotive flex plate, does it need the reinforcement ring? Always ran a top loader previously, so I have never ran into this before Thanks
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I have a Performance Automotive flex plate, does it need the reinforcement ring?
No. Strictly a factory Ford specification.
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Make sure that whatever combination you end up with doesn't get the flexplate bolts into the rear main cap. Some bolts are too long. Takes thrust bearings out in a heart beat.
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So factory CJ's with the wagon wheel pie wedge whatever flexplates are supposed to have rings, as they are not solid and maybe weaker than the typical?
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So factory CJ's with the wagon wheel pie wedge whatever flexplates are supposed to have rings, as they are not solid and maybe weaker than the typical?
OK, I went over to Mr. Hollenbeck's site and yes, the B9 ring is stock. I bought out a large stash a dozen years ago or so and there were a half dozen wagon wheels, but I cannot remember any rings. Dagnabbit. Boxes of misc stuff so maybe I better dig. https://www.428cobrajet.org/id-flywheel-auto
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Yes, I just double checked the Ford Parts books - that reinforcement ring is listed for all the car FE’s with automatics from ‘58 to the end of car FE production, including all 428’s and the ‘68 427 w/automatic. It’s even listed for the 330/361/391 FT with certain automatic transmissions. For 352/360/390 pickups it’s listed through the 1973 model year, it’s not listed for the ‘74-‘76 pickup FE’s.
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So factory CJ's with the wagon wheel pie wedge whatever flexplates are supposed to have rings, as they are not solid and maybe weaker than the typical?
OK, I went over to Mr. Hollenbeck's site and yes, the B9 ring is stock. I bought out a large stash a dozen years ago or so and there were a half dozen wagon wheels, but I cannot remember any rings. Dagnabbit. Boxes of misc stuff so maybe I better dig. https://www.428cobrajet.org/id-flywheel-auto
So, FElony, the next logical question: was the CJ/SCJ the only engine that had these flexes, and did Ford engineers think the couple of pounds of reduced rotating weight was going to make a smidge more power?
Um, FElony, that's two questions.
Hard to shut the brain off, FElony. You should know best.
Yes, I certainly understand, FElony. More than you think. More...than...you...think.
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Green Sales seems to have the corner on the NOS rings...
https://www.rearcounter.com/B9AZ-6A366-B-parts43548.html
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Green Sales seems to have the corner on the NOS rings...
https://www.rearcounter.com/B9AZ-6A366-B-parts43548.html
There are several used on eBay and three NOS with surface rust from one seller. Another seller had three shiny NOS. Well, until they got swallowed by the voracious FElonious buying machine. [burp]
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I've got a pile if anyone needs one. On the house.
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I've got a pile if anyone needs one. On the house.
Can I have ten?
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no , he said one .
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no , he said one .
Thanks for ruining my punchline.
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Just to throw in a bit of complete irrelevance, the proper nomenclature for what's being called a 'flex-plate' here is 'flywheel'. About a zillion years ago, when I was operating the hub polishing operation on the converter bowls, before they were completely assembled into converters, the operation just the other side of the aisle was the 'flywheel job'. We had just started using 'electron-beam-welding' to attach the ring gear to the plate.
I believe the label 'flex plate' comes from generic motors.
KS
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Just to throw in a bit of complete irrelevance, the proper nomenclature for what's being called a 'flex-plate' here is 'flywheel'. ...
Absolutely true. In the Ford parts books, the word flexplate appears nowhere.
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I have a Performance Automotive flex plate, does it need the reinforcement ring? Always ran a top loader previously, so I have never ran into this before Thanks
I 100% use the ring on all my flex plates, including the SFI rated units. I did not on a TCI neutral balance SFI plate in the past and had to junk it after one year thanks to spider cracks running out from the center.
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"Just to throw in a bit of complete irrelevance, the proper nomenclature for what's being called a 'flex-plate' here is 'flywheel'. About a zillion years ago, when I was operating the hub polishing operation on the converter bowls, before they were completely assembled into converters, the operation just the other side of the aisle was the 'flywheel job'. We had just started using 'electron-beam-welding' to attach the ring gear to the plate.
I believe the label 'flex plate' comes from generic motors."
Boy that makes me feel better.....I keep having to correct myself...now I don't feel like I am losing my mind. HAHA.
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I come from the "Other West Coast", West Michigan, which is also known as GM, Chevrolet, and Corvette land.
Around here I am sometimes reminded of the difference between GM talk and Ford speak.
Besides "flexplate", known in Ford speak as an "automatic transmission flywheel" (or simply a flywheel), we have "Speed Control" which in GM talk is called "Cruise Control", and of course GM's "Positraction" in Ford speak is call "Equa-Lok" or Traction-Lok.
I am sure there are more, but those three are very common. GM and Ford enthusiasts are separate sub-cultures with different dialects. The GM types are typically beer drinkers, Southern Hill-Billies or simple farmer types, whereas Ford men are far more sophisticated and more attuned to drinking wine or bourbon, and owning a Lincoln Town Car.
=
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case in point, FElony.
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case in point, FElony.
Juss watcherself, boah. I ain't no hah-falutin' pinky-liftin' wino. You wanna be tuff lahk my own bad self heah it izzz:
Put bottle of Rumplemintz in freezer.
Put bottle of Bailey's in refrigerator.
Pour 50/50 mix for first drink; adjust to taste.
No ice; that just dilutes the experience.
Use a shot glass. Mr. Badass here used a coffee mug (also in freezer) and was a tad enthusiastic when inhaling this yummy mix. Halfway down, I failed to recall what planet I was on. Fortunately, I was on the phone with another forum member who was nice enough to call back and check on me after I had walked into various vertical components of my house structure.
He was, understandably, disappointed that I was still alive. But hey, you can't keep a good man down. Or me, either.
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:) :) :) :) :) (That was very well said!)
KS
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:) :) :) :) :) (That was very well said!)
KS
Tell me, Ken, which you liked better... the part where I almost died, or the part where I almost died.
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Down in coldwater mi we call them rod knockers (chevys)and the name fits well.
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:) :) :) :) :) (That was very well said!)
KS
Tell me, Ken, which you liked better... the part where I almost died, or the part where I almost died.
I wish you well.
You are very definitely one of a kind! There have been times...
But generally speaking, this place is a bit brighter and more interesting when you are here.
KS