FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fairlaniac on March 18, 2020, 10:01:29 AM
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Last week I had the engine upside down on the stand and the pan off checking dipstick clearance. Seems to be a nice notch at the front of the windage tray/screen and the dipstick passed freely but did seem angled pretty hard. Finished assembly and added oil. Did some pre-oiling exercises and checked the oil level. It's a Canton 7 qt. pan. I have 7 qts. in but nothing measures on the dipstick. I also hear the dipstick scraping as it goes in the last inch or so. Might be hitting the edge of the tray? I saw an old post of bending the last inch of the dipstick. I guess all I need is some oil to show up on the dipstick and knowing I have 7 qts. I should be good?
I took the dipstick from my 390 that was in my Fairlane to use on the 427. It's a much sloppier fit in the 427 block. I could just add some sealer around the insertion point. Any issues there?
I thought about using the dipstick port in the Canton pan but it seems low and oil would come out if I removed the plug. I assume Canton sells a dipstick and tube for this? Then how would I block off the OEM hole in the block? Seems using an OEM dipstick would be easiest? Any tips or suggestions?
Thanks,
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When I put the Milodon drag race pan on the 393 in the dragster, I had to actually drill the pan windage and tweak the stick to clear, so IMHO not unusual. I don't even run a stick now, so not a problem LOL.
On the door car, I use an aftermarket (china) dipstick. The ring on the stick doesn't meet the block properly and it reads wrong. I slipped a small clipped piece of hose over it to seal against the block port and just marked the oil level for the 7 qt pan using a chisel.
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Use the Canton dipstick. Put a cup plug in the block.
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This topic makes me curious about the correct oil level in a pan. Is there a target oil level? Since mixing and matching pans and dipstick tubes and sticks there must be an optimum level to shoot for.
For example: On a street engine, should the oil level be 2” below the crankshaft counterweights on an FE engine regardless of the style of pan?
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Doug, what is the part number on that pan? I can’t recall if you went with a T pan or not. The front deep sump pan they offer is a 7 qt system. 6 in the pan and one in the filter. Canton sells a tube and stick package. They might even ship direct to you. You have to manipulate the tube, ( it’s soft), to clear headers and oil filter mount. Can’t bend it too crazy or the stick will fight you going in/ out. Bend the tube, try the stick, repeat until you have clearance from headers, etc and have a removable dip stick.
Good luck,
JB
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I once measured the oil level mark on my dip stick relative to the pan rail. I believe it was 2 1/2". That was a stock dip stick on a '62' 406.....Hope that helps
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Doug, what us the part number on that pan? I can’t recall if you went with a T pan or not. The front deep sump pan they offer is a 7 qt system. 6 in the pan and one in the filter. Canton sells a tube and stick package. They might even ship direct to you. You have to manipulate the tube, ( it’s soft), to clear headers and oil filter mount. Can’t bend it too crazy or the stick will fight you going in/ out. Bend the tube, try the stick, repeat until you have clearance from headers, etc and have a removable dip stick.
Good luck,
JB
No T pan, I have the 7 qt. I did order a dip stick & tube by Canton. Now to figure the size for a cup plug to seal the OEM dip stick hole and if I have one on hand. I'm ready to drop the engine in. I'd hate to have to order a cup plug and wait.............. :-)
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A 7/16" plug gets you down against the shoulder. I use a roll pin punch and drive her in.
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A 7/16" plug gets you down against the shoulder. I use a roll pin punch and drive her in.
Brent,
The first diameter drilled is about 7/16" but if I put a plug there it will not be surrounded by 360 degrees of block material and it is just sitting on the ledge of the next hole drilled about 3/8". A 3/8" plug will go in the hole and seat on a ledge about 3/8" deep. See pic, I cannot image a 7/16" plug would seal here/
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/dipstick.jpg)
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A 3/8" plug is fine.
I have shallow 7/16" plugs that will drive down in there, but 3/8" will work just fine. Doesn't take much, sometimes when I dyno a factory style combo, I'll leave the dipstick out and just shove a bolt down in there, with no leaks or issues.
Your plug will work fine.
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Hi Doug,
You are going to want to drain it all out to get back to zero for dipstick marking purposes. With 7 qts in there you will be over the bung level of that pan anyways, might get messy screwing in the dipstick tube, lol.
JB
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I think you could plug it with a 9mm casing ;)
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Hi Doug,
You are going to want to drain it all out to get back to zero for dipstick marking purposes. With 7 qts in there you will be over the bung level of that pan anyways, might get messy screwing in the dipstick tube, lol.
JB
Yep, got that planned.
Thanks
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I just knocked the plug out of a 360 from a 4x4. It is a cup plug in the smaller hole down deep.
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This topic makes me curious about the correct oil level in a pan. Is there a target oil level? Since mixing and matching pans and dipstick tubes and sticks there must be an optimum level to shoot for.
For example: On a street engine, should the oil level be 2” below the crankshaft counterweights on an FE engine regardless of the style of pan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOmMDF8sNro
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If you have a known 7 quarts in the pan, you can cut the tube off at the top, and re-check for a reading, mark the amount on the dipstick, and remove more off the tube. That is how we did the first few Canton pans with the dipstick tube in the pan. They were/are removeable, and you can shorten the tube at the top by using a cut-off wheel, bansaw, or grinder with smooth stone to even up the top of the tube. Paint to keep from rusting, and you should be able to correctly read the oil level. Make sure you blow out the tube before re-installing it each time. Joe-JDC
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So I plugged my OEM dipstick hole with a 3/8" cup plug and sealer. Also received my Canton dipstick yesterday. I notice the dipstick end is about even with the tube end. Is this the way to install it? OEM usually has the stick, sticking out into the oil. The fitting is positioned on the tube as shown. I'll assume I just stick it in and tighten?
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/canton%20dipstick.jpg)
Thanks,
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Make sure you don't just slide the tube down in the fitting and retighten, and let the bottom get close to the oil level. Any build-up of pressure in the crankcase will then push oil up the tube and all over your engine compartment. The tube needs to be far enough above the oil level that it is not ever covered with oil. Joe-JDC
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Make sure you don't just slide the tube down in the fitting and retighten, and let the bottom get close to the oil level. Any build-up of pressure in the crankcase will then push oil up the tube and all over your engine compartment. The tube needs to be far enough above the oil level that it is not ever covered with oil. Joe-JDC
So at this point oil is in the pan and the engine is between the shock towers. For the stick to stick past the tube it needs cut but is that what I am to do? The stick has Canton "pre-calibrated" markings. As of now the bung on the pan is obviously below the oil level. If the bung is in the oil there is no way the tube can be above it or the tube would be out of the fitting I'm a bit confused? I would think if Canton designed the pan for 7 qt. and designed a dip stick with calibrations marks you could just purchase and install. I should know better knowing the modifications I had to do to get the pick up tube from touching the windage screen. If only they sent instructions?
Thank you!
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Here are the instructions taped to the tube.
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/cp1.jpg)
You can see the bung will be well below the top of the oil level. So as the instructions are stated the end of the tube will be in the oil.
(http://www.fairlanet.com/images/cp2.jpg)
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Doug,
I have trimmed the part of the tube past the ring stop. You will find that with the contortions the tube experiences to clear various interfering components it may become difficult to even get the dipstick through the tube. Also that extra amount of tube extending into the pan could make the difference as far as easy installation. Every bend that gets added to the tube itself can become an obstacle. If you have any reservations about cutting the tube just take off .750 of an inch at a time and dress cut afterwards. If the uncut tube and dipstick go in without interference on tray or anything else that is great but you might have to trim it.
JB
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Doug,
I have trimmed the part of the tube past the ring stop. You will find that with the contortions the tube experiences to clear various interfering components it may become difficult to even get the dipstick through the tube. Also that extra amount of tube extending into the pan could make the difference as far as easy installation. Every bend that gets added to the tube itself can become an obstacle. If you have any reservations about cutting the tube just take off .750 of an inch at a time and dress cut afterwards. If the uncut tube and dipstick go in without interference on tray or anything else that is great but you might have to trim it.
JB
Thanks! I'm still concerned about something Joe brought up. It doesn't matter how much tube I cut, it sure looks like it will be in the oil. Here is Joe's comment.
"Make sure you don't just slide the tube down in the fitting and retighten, and let the bottom get close to the oil level. Any build-up of pressure in the crankcase will then push oil up the tube and all over your engine compartment. The tube needs to be far enough above the oil level that it is not ever covered with oil. Joe-JDC"
Thanks,
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Really? 2 pages on oil level and how to install a dipstick tube?
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Really? 2 pages on oil level and how to install a dipstick tube?
Yes, really. You buy parts from a manufacturer and they don't offer much installation confidence. I never went through the pan with a dipstick. Want to get it right.
I could have asked how to install the oil ;-)
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The tube/stick assembly may be a universal part for a number of their pans.
With six qts. in the 15-850 pan the oil will be over the tube bottom, no way around it. All you have to worry about is getting the tube and stick to play nice with each other.
JB