FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: MExpress on February 15, 2020, 07:42:16 AM
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I'm getting conflicting answers regarding running a hardened steel distributor gear with a cast iron flat tappet cam.
From what I've been reading some say it is compatible and others say no.
Which is it?
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It depends, there are many different gears out there. If it is a melonized iron gear, you are likely OK, but I would ask the gear manufacturer.
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Hardened steel? No go. You need a cast iron gear.
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Thanks Brent.
That's what I figured.
I just installed the iron gear as suggested.
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I prefer to run brass or composite and check them once in a while.
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Steel = steel, cast iron = cast iron. Never have to check.
Bronze is for Chevys. :)
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If it is a melonized iron gear...........
This is GM terminology and technology, and although this vocabulary is popularly implied to The Ford product, it didn't exist, until perhaps Comp-Cams, so confused with what their cam cores were being made of, and therefore unknowing of what to recommend as far as distributor driven gear material, did as has been so commonly practiced in the past, "if it works for the Chevy's just close your eyes and sell the same $het to the Ford guys"! But your still stuck with the question.............is it the correct gear material for your application? :o
Scott.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing
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If it is a melonized iron gear...........
This is GM terminology and technology, and although this vocabulary is popularly implied to The Ford product, it didn't exist, until perhaps Comp-Cams, so confused with what their cam cores were being made of, and therefore unknowing of what to recommend as far as distributor driven gear material, did as has been so commonly practiced in the past, "if it works for the Chevy's just close your eyes and sell the same $het to the Ford guys"! But your still stuck with the question.............is it the correct gear material for your application? :o
Scott.
Not sure what you are getting at here, not really a Chevy thing, a hardening thing. I brought it up because many "roller cam" gears are often melonized iron unless specifically listed as steel.
Best bet is as Brent said, steel on steel, iron on iron. I am not a bronze fan, seen too many towed in and the teeth pulverized into somewhere. Amazingly, it never seemed to hurt anything, but that's a lot of material. Haven't tried composites
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I already lost one cam from steel on steel eating each other up, not going $300 in the hole again. I'll stick with Chevy bronze. I just checked the one in the dragster motor after two season, looks fine.
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Well, when you only go a 1/4 mile, it's gonna look fine LOL....500 passes is just 125 miles.
The second biggest issue that I see, aside from wrong materials, is when guys install them wrong. Not saying that's what you did, but most guys think that you can pop one off and put the new one on right back in the same spot, pop the pin in, and you're done. Fords are much more sensitive to this install dimension and it can mean life/death on a gear. You'd be surprised at how many people mess this up. I bought a distributor off of a pretty well-known Cleveland engine builder once, dropped it in the engine, and fired it up on the dyno, only to immediately watch the spark plug wires get wadded up as the distributor turned.
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>Well, when you only go a 1/4 mile, it's gonna look fine LOL....500 passes is just 125 miles.
LOL - 62.5, I only run 1/8 mile. So even less wear and tear. Terrible gas mileage though...
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Want to have fun with that sort of math?
Calculate the lifespan of a top fuel engine in RPM.
They turn maybe 8000???
For under 4 seconds
Give them an extra two seconds for burnout and 10 for backup/stage at 2000
Then they get rebuilt.
Thats what - 1000-1200 crank rotations total?
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Want to have fun with that sort of math?
Calculate the lifespan of a top fuel engine in RPM.
They turn maybe 8000???
For under 4 seconds
Give them an extra two seconds for burnout and 10 for backup/stage at 2000
Then they get rebuilt.
Thats what - 1000-1200 crank rotations total?
It's a Chrysler design, what do you expect? :)
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Want to have fun with that sort of math?
Calculate the lifespan of a top fuel engine in RPM.
They turn maybe 8000???
For under 4 seconds
Give them an extra two seconds for burnout and 10 for backup/stage at 2000
Then they get rebuilt.
Thats what - 1000-1200 crank rotations total?
It's a Chrysler design, what do you expect? :)
Ha!
A friend has a nitro funny car, he was telling me some of these numbers. It's truly unbelievable.
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Want to have fun with that sort of math?
Calculate the lifespan of a top fuel engine in RPM.
They turn maybe 8000???
For under 4 seconds
Give them an extra two seconds for burnout and 10 for backup/stage at 2000
Then they get rebuilt.
Thats what - 1000-1200 crank rotations total?
I forget what the top RPM is, closer to 9 or 10K I think. 9~11K HP is kind of abusive on parts. That crowd is above my pay grade LOL. Spencer Massey does come out from DFW to race with us sometimes, but he's in his bracket car LOL. Good racer,
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HIJACK!
Some real cool facts about top fuel dragsters I stumbled across.....
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* One dragster's 500-inch Hemi makes more horsepower then the first 8 rows at Daytona.
* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1 1/2 gallons of nitro per second, the same rate of fuel consumption as a fully loaded 747 but with 4 times the energy volume.
* The supercharger takes more power to drive than a stock hemi makes.
* Even with nearly 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into nearly-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock.
* Dual magnetos apply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.
* At stoichiometric (exact) 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture (for nitro), the flame front of nitromethane measures 7050 degrees F.
* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.
* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression-plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting off its fuel flow.
* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in those cylinders and then explodes with a force that can blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or blow the block in half.
* Dragsters twist the crank (torsionally) so far (20 degrees in the big end of the track) that sometimes cam lobes are ground offset from front to rear to re-phase the valve timing somewhere closer to synchronization with the pistons.
* To exceed 300mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. But in reaching 200 mph well before 1/2 track, launch acceleration is closer to 8G's.
* If all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs $1000.00 per second.
* Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have read this sentence.
Did you know …
… that the nitromethane-powered engines of NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars produce approximately 7,000 horsepower, about 37 times that of the average street car?
… that one cylinder of the eight cylinders of a Top Fuel dragster or a Funny Car produces 750 horsepower, equaling the entire horsepower output of a NASCAR engine?
… that the gasoline-powered engines of NHRA Pro Stock cars produce about 1,200 horsepower, about eight times that of the average street car?
… that an NHRA Top Fuel dragster accelerates from 0 to 100 mph in less than .8-second, almost 11 seconds quicker than it takes a production Porsche 911 Turbo to reach the same speed?
… that an NHRA Top Fuel dragster leaves the starting line with a force nearly five times that of gravity, the same force of the space shuttle when it leaves the launching pad at Cape Canaveral?
… that an NHRA Funny Car is slowed by a reverse force more than seven times that of gravity when both parachutes deploy simultaneously?
… that NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars consume between four and five gallons of fuel during a quarter-mile run, which is equivalent to between 16 and 20 gallons per mile?
… that NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars use between 10 and 12 gallons of fuel for a complete pass, including the burnout, backup to the starting line, and quarter-mile run?
… that NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars travel the length of more than four football fields in less than five seconds?
… that NHRA Top Fuel dragsters can exceed 280 mph in just 660 feet?
… that from a standing start, NHRA Top Fuel dragsters accelerate faster than a jumbo jet, a fighter jet, and a Formula One race car?
… that a fuel pump for an NHRA Top Fuel dragster and Funny Car delivers 65 gallons of fuel per minute, equivalent to eight bathroom showers running at the same time?
… that the fuel-line pressure for NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars is between 400 and 500 pounds, about 20 times greater than the pressure on passenger-car fuel pumps?
… that depending on size and angle, the large rear wing on an NHRA Top Fuel dragster develops between 4,000 and 8,000 pounds of downforce?
… that the 17-inch rear tires used on NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars wear out after four to six runs, or about two miles? Some brands of passenger-car tires are guaranteed for 80,000 miles.
… that it takes just 15/100ths of a second for all 7,000 horsepower of an NHRA Top Fuel dragster engine to reach the rear wheels?
… that it's desirable for an NHRA Top Fuel dragster to race with its front wheels inches off the ground for about the first 200 feet of the run? This ensures proper weight transfer to the rear wheels, a crucial part of a good launch and quick run.
… that the nitromethane used to power the engines of NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars costs about $30 per gallon?
Sources: NHRA Communications and Technical Departments, NHRA race teams, motorsports equipment manufacturers (and boostedpimp)