FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: JimNolan on January 03, 2013, 05:56:10 PM
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Guys,
Got tired of waiting for the rocker stands from Doug to come in so I went ahead and put the valve train together. I didn't use the studs from Edelbrock because they stuck up in the air so high and I've got a pair of Erson ( I think that was the name ) cast Aluminum finned valve covers I want to use. Soooooo, Edelbrock calls for 40-45 lbs torque using engine oil for lube. I went up to 30 lbs and quit there. It's starting to get scary on me again. So I thought I'd stop and ask what you guys what torque I should take it to. I couldn't find anything about it in the way of a post. Help. I'm ready to put the engine in the test stand as soon as I get the fuel lines hooked up. Jim
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If I understand correctly, Edelbrock calls for 45 ft-lbs of torque on the studs? But you are using bolts? I think 35 ft-lbs on the bolts ought to be plenty.
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Yes Jay, I'm using bolts. The threaded studs stick up so high I'd be using $250.00 custom made valve covers to seal it with. I'm using the original bolts. I'm scared to death of this aluminum stuff anyway. Did you ever pull on a bolt just knowing any minute you were getting ready to tear up something. That's what it feels like at 30 lbs on these bolts. Edelbrock calls for the same torque that Ford calls for the cast head. It just don't make sense to me. Jim
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Jim,
What's the delay on the end stands? Also, did you measure the depth of the bolts into the threads?
Here's my opinion
1 - Wait for the end stands, even if marginally, it will make the valve train more stable
2 - Use the studs, cut them down or get the correct ones. Having the studs fully threaded in, then clamping from the top is much easier on the head
3 - Maybe have your torque wrench checked, 30 ft lbs isn't much.
4 - Just in case, remember, if you do use the bolts, one will be different from stock with the Edel heads and have to be replaced
Good luck
Ross
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X2 what the guys said, but
got a pic of these Erson covers. Sounds pretty Kool.
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X2 what the guys said, but
got a pic of these Erson covers. Sounds pretty Kool.
ScotiaFE,
Here's a pic of the engine I took the other day. The 390 emblems are coming off.
Ross,
I'll slow down. Use the studs and wait for the rocker stands. I get impatient. I made the mistake of telling Doug that I had all winter to complete the engine build. That may be part of the problem. Usually companies don't run your Credit Card before they intend to ship though. The push-in restrictors haven't come from Survival yet either. I want to hear this thing make noise. Jim PS That 750 Holley is SHINEY. (http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag84/JimNolan/Photo12291240_zps25610f6a.jpg)
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Jim, you can be proud of that mill and the 57! Love that tutone red and white paint scheme and the Cragars look good with it too. Be sure and tell us how it performs once you get 'er broken in.
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Yup...pretty kool covers.
Trade ya a old set of dented up stock early 70's truck ones for them.
You know aftermarket always needs extra fitting. :P
Nice looking engine.
Patients Grasshopper.
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Yup...pretty kool covers.
Trade ya a old set of dented up stock early 70's truck ones for them.
You know aftermarket always needs extra fitting. :P
Nice looking engine.
Patients Grasshopper.
ScotiaFE,
I got the valve covers fixed. I made a rather large hole in both bafffles inside the valve cover so the bolt could stick up through. Works great. I didn't want to be hacking on the Edelbrock rocker studs to get clearance. I can use the studs now. I've got the engine lift brackets made and put on and tomorrow I'll set it in the test stand and attach the flywheel. I'm calling Doug in a few minutes and let him know I need the rocker stands. Thanks again for the help you guys have given me. Jim
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Restrictors went out US Postal...look out for a rather small box....
We've been way backed up for a bunch of reasons, and are working at a fever pitch to try & catch up...
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Thanks Barry
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Ross,
I'll slow down. Use the studs and wait for the rocker stands. I get impatient. I made the mistake of telling Doug that I had all winter to complete the engine build. That may be part of the problem. Usually companies don't run your Credit Card before they intend to ship though. The push-in restrictors haven't come from Survival yet either. I want to hear this thing make noise. Jim PS That 750 Holley is SHINEY.
There is an old saying, "if you want it bad, that's how you'll get it"
Good call on waiting, sounds like you have a solid plan now. The engine looks great.
One comment, I have never had good luck with the FE oval air cleaners and the short filter. When you look at the hold down, the sharp bend, and how close the choke is to the lid, you can see they don't flow too well.
They look cool but if there is any way you can switch to a 14 inch chrome with a flat base, maybe a repop Hipo air cleaner, they work well. I use a 4 inch filter from a 454 application and it really lets them breathe.
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There is an old saying, "if you want it bad, that's how you'll get it"
Good call on waiting, sounds like you have a solid plan now. The engine looks great.
One comment, I have never had good luck with the FE oval air cleaners and the short filter. When you look at the hold down, the sharp bend, and how close the choke is to the lid, you can see they don't flow too well.
They look cool but if there is any way you can switch to a 14 inch chrome with a flat base, maybe a repop Hipo air cleaner, they work well. I use a 4 inch filter from a 454 application and it really lets them breathe.
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Ross,
It'll get the 14" round with the 11" round 410 Mercury Marauder sticker. I've never liked the long flat air cleaner on one 4V. It makes me think I'm trying to depict it as something it's not. I bought that air cleaner when I got the erson valve covers because it matched the color and it was aluminum cast with fins. I've never put the 57 on the track with something like that. To tell the truth I don't like those erson valve covers and they've been sitting on the shelf for 6 years.
I've been considering Jay's suggestion of using multiple gaskets with my (perfect set of original 66GT covers that most people would give up custody rights of their first born child to have) well, maybe not the first born. But you get my meaning. Jim
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I agree with Ross on the air cleaner, but if you want to use it you can buy a taller element for it; I assume a taller element would still fit under your hood with no problem. You can also stack two of the shorter elements. Raising the air cleaner lid on those oval air cleaners by an inch or so will really help...
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Well Jay, I installed the studs (except for the oil supplys) and put the GT valve covers on. They sit on the engine OK. Sooo, that means it's the adjusters that are hitting the valve cover. I'm going to use multiple gaskets like you suggested to get the height I need. With a little more effort I think I can acomplish what I wanted to start with. That said, it'll have a 66 GT air cleaner and height of cleaner will be totally dependant on hood clearance. I should be able to get 2-3" of air filter in there. Hopefully.
While you're on the phone I want to know something.
What's the difference between a Carter fuel pump with built in filter that delivers 120 gph flow for $35.00 and a shiney Edelbrock fuel pump that delivers 120 gph for $140.00. I've got both. I really want to run the Carter because of the built in fuel filter so I don't have to have a filter sticking between the pump-carburetor. Other than the shine and $105, is there a difference. I bought the Edelbrock after a meet at Columbus where it was 105 degrees and I was starving for fuel because of heat soaking. I didn't have that trouble any time other than that one 105 degree meet. I've never run my car all day long in 105 degree heat after that to find out if I really needed it. Jim
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Sounds like you were having a vapor lock issue. This happens at high temps due to the fuel turning from a liquid to a gas from absorbing latent heat.
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Sounds like you were having a vapor lock issue. This happens at high temps due to the fuel turning from a liquid to a gas from absorbing latent heat.
I realized that after I'd bought that Edelbrock fuel pump. I was stupid. My engine was 190 degrees internally and everyone else had their hoods open trying to keep from overheating. I left mine shut. Ran OK until you got to within the last 100 ft. of the finish line. I now have a fiberglass insulation sleave that I put on the fuel line crossing in front of the motor to the carb.
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Guys,
Maybe I shouldn't take up space on the website with photo's but I thought some of you might want to see this. It astonished me.
I was worried about hood clearance with the new Edelbrock Performer RPM intake being so much higher than my cast iron 63 intake I had on my 390 FE now. The 14" round air cleaner I had on the 390 just had enough clearance. From the top of the Valve Cover to the top of the air cleaner wing nut on the old engine was 6 3/4".
I bought a air cleaner base made for the Corvette 427 L88. It had about a 2" drop from the top of the carb. It worked great. It has the notches for the float levels, the vacuum secondary and choke and fit the carb perfect with no way to turn.
The top of the valve cover to top of the wing nut is 6" now. I could put a 3/4" spacer on the carb along with the 1/4" gasket/spacer I have on there already. Jim PS I have to have a dome lid to clear the top of the carb now. You could use a 4" air filter with a flat lid instead of the 3" air cleaner if you wanted to. (http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag84/JimNolan/IMGP1400_zps1f36bbdc.jpg)
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Looks great!!! Should really put some thunder under the hood.
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Jim, you are welcome to post photos anywhere on the site. Engine looks great!
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^^^ That's a great idea Jim. I had planned on using a 1" spacer on mine but the clearance with my air filter was just not there. ;)
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^^^ That's a great idea Jim. I had planned on using a 1" spacer on mine but the clearance with my air filter was just not there. ;)
I'm not going to take credit for it. The idea came from a Ford Cobra website. Ford made air cleaner bases for 4160 carbs but none that I could find that fit a 14" filter without all kinds of tubes coming off it. This one just has one 1" tube coming off the back shooting directly at the PCV valve, and it's hidden enough not to matter if you just put a plug over it. It cost's a little more because it's a reproduction type deal. Good Luck, Jim
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With my FE tucked under the hood of a Cobra this was my solution. The drop base air cleaner is quite low as you can see and with the rounded H/M upper it allows me to run a 4" filter with a 1" carb spacer on a PI intake and Demon RS 1050 carb. At the end of the day (on the dyno), this air cleaner set-up gave me a repeatable 5hp bump over no air cleaner at all.
(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_1881.JPG)
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Rocker stands came today. They were worth the wait. Thank you Doug. I got one side on today. I was planning on using no oil restrictors and using the oil tray. That didn't work out. By the time you get through cutting up the tray for the rocker stands to fit you might as well not have what's left of the trays. Sooooo, I installed the .070" restrictors and bolted down the rockers. I'm throwing a picture of the one side that's done. Jim(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag84/JimNolan/Photo01151934_1_zps5767b83b.jpg)
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Pretty well done until I get the old engine out of the 57. Jim(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag84/JimNolan/Photo01161618_zpsf8a6e47c.jpg)
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Wow, that looks great! Nice job, Jim...
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I like the radiator tank on the right side, what is the can on the left power steering?