FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Heo on February 10, 2020, 04:57:36 PM
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Any one who knows what material there is in
the stearing arm in a 64 Galaxie?
Why i ask is to know how a shall weld it
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I don't know about there but in Australia any welding on a steering component is illegal.
Having said that, as a Welder, I would say they would be cast steel. I would use a high nickel or low hydrogen electrode, full weld prep, pre-heat, post heat and finish peen.
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I believe the "steering arm", or I think perhaps your referencing the "pitman arm" are generally in this era of forged steel construction, and although perhaps appear easier to weld than cast, it would still not be a recommended procedure, except under controlled circumstances, with testing to prove the result. :-\
Scott.
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Heo why are you welding it in the first place.?
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Agree that the steering arm will typically be forged low-carbon steel.
Like the others say, it can be welded with good preparation, but there are risks if you don't do it right. What's the reason to weld?
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Sorry Pitman arm. Definitely Forged steel, definitely weldable probably illegal to weld
but so are my track width, horsepower level, noise level....
I have worked welding components more critical than a pitman arm
so if someone can give me the steel alloy i can find out the method to
weld it. Reason to weld it is I'm changing steering box and need to modify
the pitman arm to fit the new box
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4140 alloy steel?
http://ijsetr.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/IJSETR-VOL-5-ISSUE-6-1901-1903.pdf
This generic PDF may be of help. Good luck otherwise as most USA makers (Moog, TRW) do not list any material specs.
Btw, heating and minor (!) bending used to be a rare but doable thing. (on edit) Today, it's rat rod builders who likely do the most bending of steering componets. Never heard or saw someone welding same however on OEM builds (i.e. muscle cars) as it not really necessary in almost all cases. These days, some makers offer a host of steeering arm components that fit most rat rod builds.
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Pre heat , weld with 7018, post heat. Do not rapid cool! I do not recommend, but 4x4 guys do it all the time. Definitely not for the unskilled as someone’s life could depend upon it.
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4140 alloy steel?
http://ijsetr.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/IJSETR-VOL-5-ISSUE-6-1901-1903.pdf
This generic PDF may be of help. Good luck otherwise as most USA makers (Moog, TRW) do not list any material secs.
Btw, heating and minor (!) bending used to be a rare but doable thing. Never heard or saw someone welding same however.
I have welded steering arms before was able to get the SIS nr from Volvo
Equal to SIS 2244 then, shall be preheated to 200-350C if my memory is corect...But don't think they used that
high alloy steel due to machining the splines. But wont hurt anything preheating "to much". Dont know if the splines is
Induktion hardened have to take a file to them and check
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Opel/Vauxhall steering box?
High nickel wire should work there are some trick wires for tic welding too.Wich you all already know I'm sure.
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Yes, Opel Omega box. Almost to easy, one bolt hole in the right place
just have to drill two new holes shorten the steering shaft about 100 milli.
Yes no problem for me to chose the right wire/stick
If i know the alloy. I can send it for analyze if i have to
but thought if some one knew the alloy
I bet it would hold just V notch and weld it with 48.00
but trying to be serious here ;)
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Pitman arms and front axles have been bent and or cut and welded for many year's by hot rodders. It was a common fix for the result wanted back in the day. If you can determine the alloy I don't see much of a issue.
Unless it's a land speed record car.
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I have cut and welded pitman arms in the past. I will drill and pin the center of the arm, V it out and triple pass it. Let it cool naturally.
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Because of the application, I believe it will be either 1045 (first choice) or 5140. I doubt that it is 4140 but, what ever it is, it will have that % of carbon. As far as welding goes, the process should be about the same for all three. As a forging, 1045 is a very tough and durable steel.
I would say the weld process would be, pre heat, weld, air cool and reheat to normalize the steel. V the area, stabilize the parts and leave a ~.015 gap before welding.
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I forgot to add that, the steering arm is heat treated and you'll loose that heat treatment. To see how much strength you loose, check the difference between HT 1045 and normalized.
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When welding on a drag link was necessary on the gasser build and now on the Bronco build, I have the part annealed at a metallurgy shop and de-stressed. did not cost too much and I sleep better. 7 years of use on the gasser and no problem, also passed IHRA tech inspect. I used Flame Metals Processing Corp. in Rogers, Mn. they provided a grain structure and brinell test results b4 and after.
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That is the way to do it!
I manufactured aircraft parts, until 2000. What you describe would have cost me about $200, with aircraft certs, at that time for one or 20 parts. They are done in batches.
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I have over 30 years on a extended and dropped pitman on my F100. I am changing it out after 30 years, only because Marc (turbohunter) set me up with an aftermarket one that will match a better and newer tie rod design, not because I fear it in ANY way.
Way back then, I built my pieces out of a second arm, drilled them to have a pin to locate them, then MiG welded. Keep in mind though it was a BIG MiG that built some heat, not a 120V buzz box. Pretty sure the pitman arms are soft, otherwise a curb would take them out.
With all of that, anything you do, is on your own, don't let my experience be what I may do today, or what I would recommend. Steering is sorta important :)
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My427stang reminded me.
I have seen lot's of bent pitman arms in 50 years of collision work.
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Did some Google digging on steering box swaps years back.I remember omega/Vauxhall boxes and I remember that the pitman arm needing some massage but not welding. But then again Google wisdom and my memory
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This is the and most expensive way to do it:
1. Send the part to a metallurgist, to identify the base material.
2. Anneal the part. You can do this part, by heating to a medium red, in artificial light and submerging in dry sand, in a enclosed metal box. I use a ammo box and cat litter. Or, have the metallurgist do it, while he has it.
3. Weld prep the part as I outlined above.
4. Have a certified welder, weld the part with the same rod or wire, as the base metal and air cool.
5. Send it back to the metallurgist for X-ray and re-heat treat.
The welder and the metallurgist, has to know the alloy, before they can accurately weld or HT the part.
I can guaranty it will cost more than $200, plus shipping but, I can also, guaranty It will be as strong as new.
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Did some Google digging on steering box swaps years back.I remember omega/Vauxhall boxes and I remember that the pitman arm needing some massage but not welding. But then again Google wisdom and my memory
The Omega Pitman arm is to short if i dont move the box further to the front. May be a possibility if
it dont hit anything
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Forged Iron welds super easy. You guys are over thinking it. Heat, weld 7018 Low Hydrogen with a DC welder, peen, post heat, peen some more. Throw it on top of the wood stove until it burns out overnight.
You could even wire weld it but the 7018 will weld up nicer.
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Forged Iron welds super easy. You guys are over thinking it. Heat, weld 7018 Low Hydrogen with a DC welder, peen, post heat, peen some more. Throw it on top of the wood stove until it burns out overnight.
You could even wire weld it but the 7018 will weld up nicer.
Yes this turned in to a science project ;Dt
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Did some Google digging on steering box swaps years back.I remember omega/Vauxhall boxes and I remember that the pitman arm needing some massage but not welding. But then again Google wisdom and my memory
I may go with A Opel Power R&P found one in my stash of steering
components pretty easy to fit that one to
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Rat rod, Vega, etc. parts: https://www.google.com/search?q=rat+rod,+pitman+arms&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS768US768&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiW2beaq9bnAhUTOs0KHag7CUQQ_AUoAnoECAwQBA&biw=1280&bih=657
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Rat rod, Vega, etc. parts: https://www.google.com/search?q=rat+rod,+pitman+arms&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS768US768&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiW2beaq9bnAhUTOs0KHag7CUQQ_AUoAnoECAwQBA&biw=1280&bih=657
Great link, that leads to a lot of info I've not see.