FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: cjshaker on January 26, 2020, 02:05:41 PM
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I've always had a problem with getting no smoke off of my burnouts. I run MT ET Streets, and even when they were new I would get very little, if any, smoke during my burnout. I started out using 1st gear (newbie, so wasn't familiar with using 2nd), but even when I changed to using 2nd gear, they just will not smoke. I currently have 4.30 gears and would wind it up to about 5000 on the burnout. Is that not enough wheel speed to heat the tires up? Nobody else seems to have that issue, so I don't know.
It makes me wonder if my tires are not heating up enough to get full traction on launch, and most of you know that traction on launch is an issue I have. Even though I'm still sorting out the Caltrac adjustments and shock settings, I think the lack of smoke on my burnout is telling me something, so I was looking at getting a set of full slicks for racing this year. Looking at Mickey Thompsons' website, the ET Streets and full slicks use the same compound (M5), so that doesn't explain it. I was looking at Hoosiers' website, but they don't have much info about compounds, or at least it's very confusing, so that doesn't help. They also don't state anything about stiff sidewalls for stick cars (which mine is). So can any of the racers here give me some helpful tips or information to help me make a good choice? Hoosier seems to be a popular tire, but I've seen plenty of guys running pretty quick with MT tires.
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My car doesn’t smoke a lot during the burnout.
https://youtu.be/3WULNOsYYeI
Here is a video of a 9.5 pass watch the burnout and no wheel spin leaving
Now on the street a burn out like the video leaves tons of smoke but on the street no water is used
My 2 cents
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Are you sure it's the tires and not your procedure? Are you doing your burnout in the waterbox/wet area? Try pulling forward just out of the water before doing your burnout. Have someone check your tires to make sure they are dry before pulling up to the line.
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My car doesn’t smoke a lot during the burnout.
https://youtu.be/3WULNOsYYeI
Here is a video of a 9.5 pass watch the burnout and no wheel spin leaving
Now on the street a burn out like the video leaves tons of smoke but on the street no water is used
My 2 cents
Russ, are those radials? Seemed like a short burnout, and if I recall, that's what they like? I have bias ply, and they require a longer burnout to heat up the compound.
Are you sure it's the tires and not your procedure? Are you doing your burnout in the waterbox/wet area? Try pulling forward just out of the water before doing your burnout. Have someone check your tires to make sure they are dry before pulling up to the line.
No, I'm not in the waterbox.
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Doug,
My experience is it depends on the mfg and the compound that is used. Hoosier with bias ply claims you don’t really need a long Smokey burnout. The tires are getting hot and as long as they are dry. I use third gear with a stick car but that is due to gearing I have. If it hooks and you get the 60’ times your happy with, don’t worry about the amount of tire smoke. Dragsters barely haze the tires on their burnout as they don’t have front brakes and they hook just fine.
I’ve used Goodyear and Hoosier. I like the Hoosier’s a little better so far. Can’t remember the compound # I have but aren’t stiff sidewalls
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I had to really get after the M/T ET Street's on the F100 to get em smoking. They're DOT radials though. But like Blair told me, it didn't matter what the tire was. The rubber has to get smoking hot in order to bite. So once I started smoking the shit out of them, my 60' time improved.
After realizing the QC issues we had with the M/T tires, we decided to look for a different brand. So we're going to try Hoosier bias slicks this year. The Hoosier website has a drag tire section with a cool drag tire PDF download that list all the available sizes. Their range of compounds are listed at the end of the bias tire section. Will try to post a link.
https://www.hoosiertire.com/assets/Drag6.pdf
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"No, I'm not in the waterbox"...Where are you then?
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I was running Mickey Thompson Et Drag Slicks (Stiff sidewall, M5)on my Galaxie and they would put out a lot of smoke during a burn out. I put the same tires, I mean THE tires, on my '65 Mustang and they didn't put out much smoke. I never figured that out either.
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Take this for the little it's worth. I used to have hardly any smoke with both the Goodyears or M/T's. Currently doing 2nd gear burnouts at 6000 which seems to be better but you also don't want to smoke your tires until they turn to mush. M/T says "little to no burnout required" and I've seen an 8 second car hook and go with almost no smoke. Older tire will require more heat.
Here's what I think is essential with a stick car. You need someone you can trust to put you in the box. Make sure there actually is water (not flooded) and slowly roll ahead to be just inside the water. Let her rip for however long you feel comfortable then thumb off the line lock. As soon as the car bites then put in the clutch. Problem is.. most burnout box guys don't know that a stick and auto need a different procedure. I watch what they are doing at all the tracks I run and they will stop you in the pothole or wave you ahead 1/2 way to the start line as they watch some Ducks fly over. Have a crew guy spot you.
As for tires, some smoke more than others but I think it's a wheels speed thing. Jerico's don't like 3rd gear burnouts so you need to up the RPM (maybe). Really hard to beat a M'T 28x10.5Wx15 on a stick car. Mine are 4 years old and still work. They are also a stiff sidewall whereas my Goodyears aren't.
Minimal tire smoke video. 8.81 @ 151 MPH.
https://youtu.be/dyfvOPxi9gE
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"No, I'm not in the waterbox"...Where are you then?
Just outside the water. Maybe that's still considered "in the box"? Track guy usually pulls me just ahead of the water until you're clear of the spray down area. Maybe I need to pay attention more to exactly where I am outside the water.
Thanks for the input, guys. Maybe I'm making more of the tire than needs to be, and that most of my problems probably still stem from getting the suspension right, and needing to slow down my front end rise. The tires are 6 years old though, so probably have reached their limit for lifespan, even though they don't have all that many runs on them.
Dale, I wasn't sure, but wondered if my wheel speed was enough with the steeper 2nd gear and 4.30 gears. I didn't want to go to 3rd for the burnout, so that's out. And I hate to run it at 6000 for the burnout (if I had to count, probably 5-6 seconds), just because it's a factory block and I don't want to stress it more than need be. Engine will get replaced this year, so then it won't be an issue. Maybe I'll just replace them with new tires. I've been pretty happy with them otherwise.
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I was running Mickey Thompson Et Drag Slicks (Stiff sidewall, M5)on my Galaxie and they would put out a lot of smoke during a burn out. I put the same tires, I mean THE tires, on my '65 Mustang and they didn't put out much smoke. I never figured that out either.
Alan, I wonder if weight has something to do with it? Your Galaxie is obviously heavier in the rear.
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I was running Mickey Thompson Et Drag Slicks (Stiff sidewall, M5)on my Galaxie and they would put out a lot of smoke during a burn out. I put the same tires, I mean THE tires, on my '65 Mustang and they didn't put out much smoke. I never figured that out either.
Weight of car perhaps? ....My wonderfully slow computer.I bet car will work a little
better when the bar is installed.
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Doug, my tires are M & H racemasters they are bias ply tire wrinkle wall tires I believe I went thru three gears during that burnout! I was just trying to point out that my tires don’t smoke a lot at the track like yours and my car hooks well at the track
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I count to 3 for my burnout and that is all it gets no matter(I don't look for smoke). I use 2nd gear in my nash and 4.56 gears.
I have a spot mirror stuck to the lower corner of my drivers door. I pay little attention to the typical person in the waterbox. I roll into it, give it a quick whip of the throttle and roll way out and pay attention with the mirror to make sure I'm not sitting in water(I also pay attention before driving into water and find myself a point on the track/wall that I know is ahead of water line). 6000 rpm, count to three and let go of line lok and let it roll forward. Just as it starts to grip I lift the throttle and push the clutch. Don't drive it out as at lower rpm your clutch will not be fully engaged and could start slipping.
With yours being treaded tires, maybe you need to make sure there is minimal water as it could build up in the tread. If backing into water, make sure you stay in damp spot, not the deep puddle(depends on the track).
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I was running Mickey Thompson Et Drag Slicks (Stiff sidewall, M5)on my Galaxie and they would put out a lot of smoke during a burn out. I put the same tires, I mean THE tires, on my '65 Mustang and they didn't put out much smoke. I never figured that out either.
Alan, I wonder if weight has something to do with it? Your Galaxie is obviously heavier in the rear.
I don't know, it's only about 1000 lbs heavier. :) When I did the burnouts in the Galaxie I would shift into 2nd gear. In the Mustang when I did this it would immediately pitch the car sideways so I quit doing that.
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Put that thing into 3rd gear, and let it rip! It needs more wheel speed.
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Doug, my tires are M & H racemasters they are bias ply tire wrinkle wall tires I believe I went thru three gears during that burnout! I was just trying to point out that my tires don’t smoke a lot at the track like yours and my car hooks well at the track
Russ, thanks for that info.
I count to 3 for my burnout and that is all it gets no matter(I don't look for smoke). I use 2nd gear in my nash and 4.56 gears.
I have a spot mirror stuck to the lower corner of my drivers door. I pay little attention to the typical person in the waterbox. I roll into it, give it a quick whip of the throttle and roll way out and pay attention with the mirror to make sure I'm not sitting in water(I also pay attention before driving into water and find myself a point on the track/wall that I know is ahead of water line). 6000 rpm, count to three and let go of line lok and let it roll forward. Just as it starts to grip I lift the throttle and push the clutch. Don't drive it out as at lower rpm your clutch will not be fully engaged and could start slipping.
With yours being treaded tires, maybe you need to make sure there is minimal water as it could build up in the tread. If backing into water, make sure you stay in damp spot, not the deep puddle(depends on the track).
Larry, not sure if you've ever looked closely at the ET Street tires, but "treaded" is a bit of a stretch...lol There are 4 small grooves that barely have any depth to them. In fact, they are barely legal in minimum depth when they are new. Most of my "tread" is gone now, but I might set up a GoPro on the rear just to see if they are holding any water...but I doubt they are. I do my burnout the same; stop outside the water, line lok, crank it up in 2nd for a few seconds, then let it roll out and as soon as I hear the engine start to pull down, push in the clutch as I let off the gas. I never shock the drivetrain by letting the tires grab before pushing the clutch.
Judging from others experience, I think the tires are probably fine, and it's just a driver/chassis issue...lol Although I'm not sure at what age they are typically replaced. I always bring my tires/wheels inside in the winter months, so they're not exposed to freezing temps.
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Different tire brands smoke differently for sure. Nitto drag radials smoke like crazy. Goodyear slicks not so much. Phoenix slicks lots of smoke. Not sure about Hoosier , I haven't used them.
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Drag radials - depending on suspension setup - don't or should not need a whale of a burnout. Just a little clean off and warm up. The compound and track prep do the rest. I run 31 x 15w tires on the dragster and barely smoke them at all. I spin them until they bite and fling the car forward. 3 years so far on $600 worth of tires, no problem. 1.19~1.23 60' on them. Same with the door car - roll gently into the water box, when signaled roll out gently clear of the water, then 2nd gear hit for about 3~5 seconds and release the line lock. About that time the tires should bite. Last year I finished the year going to the 4th round on Hoosier 275-60x15 DRs with cords and steel showing. Bought new tires in December.
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Chris, it's my understanding that radials do not play well with stick cars. Radials are designed to dead hook, and a stick car works best if the tires turn a bit on launch...at least that's what I understand, but I have no direct experience. I also think that radials have a soft sidewall, where a stick car needs a stiffer sidewall.
But I will say, you've got brass balls for running with cords showing! :o I've had blowouts at highway speeds with just minimal cords showing (young, dumb and broke), and it is NOT something I care to repeat! I couldn't imagine it at top end speeds.
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But I will say, you've got brass balls for running with cords showing! :o I've had blowouts at highway speeds with just minimal cords showing (young, dumb and broke), and it is NOT something I care to repeat! I couldn't imagine it at top end speeds.
This burnout was done with cords showing and it was nerve wracking! It was the end of the 1984 season at Spokane Raceway Park and I wanted to get my burnout photo. I noticed cords were starting to show so I coordinated with the guy running the staging lanes and the track photographer. They had me come down just after they announced that the staging lanes were closed. I went into the burnout area with the understanding that the photographer would wave after he got the photo. I go through 1st, 2nd, and into 3rd gear and I'm watching the photographer and waiting, and waiting, and waiting..... I'm expecting one of the tires to let go after what seems like an eternity when he finally waves. As I look down at the tach, it is slowing through 7000 rpm, much higher than I normally ran it. I then backed out of the starting area and headed back to the trailer, not wanting to risk running on worn out slicks.
(https://i.imgur.com/WVxaaCOh.jpg)
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>Chris, it's my understanding that radials do not play well with stick cars.
This could be true for sure. Since I run autos, the driveline stays loaded when staged. A 4000+ converter has a pretty good hit but likely not near same as smacking the driveline at a good RPM number. I tend to run stiffer sidewalls - the 15w tires on the dragster are really door car tires.
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I have a question which seems germane to this thread. Too avoid too many rpms in the burnout box and get more wheel speed I see many references to being in second gear heating the tires. Does one start the heating in second or shift to second? My application is a wide ratio TL with 4.57 cogs.
I think it is awesome that experienced manual trans racers are chiming in here.
Thanks,
JB
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You start in second. Most transmissions don't like changing gears with a lot of wheel spin including a Jerico. Unless you have a clutchless transmission you will break parts. Starting in 2nd or 3rd (also not recommended with a Jerico) means it's going to be very hard on the clutch if your tires aren't wet or you don't dump with enough RPM.
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I've been doing 3rd gear burnouts with my Jerico trans since 2000. Jerico told me to burnouts in 3rd gear. Haven't broken it yet...
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I've been doing 3rd gear burnouts with my Jerico trans since 2000. Jerico told me to burnouts in 3rd gear. Haven't broken it yet...
I suppose several factors can make a difference on this. A light car with smaller tires and 5.+ gearing is much different than a heavy car with high 3s or low 4s for gearing. Most everybody I see does 2nd gear though. The only guys I see shifting during a burnout are Lenco guys or a few with clutchless, as Dale stated.
I get good wrinkle action on my tires when I launch, but once they start to turn, they just let loose. When I see cars that have really good tires (and suspension set-up), they will turn maybe one full turn before hooking up hard. I'm trying to determine if it was my tires or if it was my suspension limiting out and unloading the tires. Since I don't have anyone to guide me or watch my launch and give me feedback, I'm just groping in the dark until I get this figured out. I need a crew chief..lol
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In my toploader days, I used first, but my car was 4600#. With my Nash I use 2nd gear at 6K rpm and 4.56 gears. I'm very anal about water on the tires with such a light clutch, though I don't dump it until I hit 6K rpm.
Doug, my .02. If they are actually wrinkling up then they are likely biting okay for a DR. Two points: I'm guessing you walk off the clutch(Not dump it), so it's locking up about that time. Second, your front end is likely topping out and allowing the rearend to unload. Those two things are making it twice as hard to get it to stay hooked up. So a lower RPM launch, looser clutch and slower reacting front end would all help keep the power to the tires more linear and allow the tires to keep their bite.
The turbo guys are going stupid fast on a small tire, but they control power and chassis very tightly to enable that to happen. Shock settings are likely a VERY big deal for them.
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What shocks are you running Doug. Our cars are obviously nose heavy and I was having traction trouble with the automatic!!
Got a set of shocks from Calvert and havent had a problem since. Between the caltracs and the calvert shocks front and back you should be able to tune it yourself. Shit Im no suspension guy I just made some tweaks here and there. I didnt know what number to put the shocks at so I asked Don Fotti and he told me were to start and it worked so I left them were I started and just played around with preloads. My car did the same thing it would hit hard then release. You can do it Doug your a pretty fart smeller. :) 8)
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Doug, my .02. If they are actually wrinkling up then they are likely biting okay for a DR. Two points: I'm guessing you walk off the clutch(Not dump it), so it's locking up about that time. Second, your front end is likely topping out and allowing the rearend to unload. Those two things are making it twice as hard to get it to stay hooked up. So a lower RPM launch, looser clutch and slower reacting front end would all help keep the power to the tires more linear and allow the tires to keep their bite.
Larry, my tires are bias ply, but I've been thinking the same thing about the front topping out and unloading the rear being the issue. I'm going to be switching to double adjustable shocks for the front (probably QA1 or Viking, already have QA1's in the rear). I see lots of guys using standard 90/10 shocks with good success, but I don't think it's working for me for a couple of reasons; 1 being a stiff street clutch, and me not slipping it just right. 2 being I have to launch at a higher rpm (currently I launch at about 5k by easing off the clutch quickly). With the short stroke 427, if I try a lower launch, the car will grab and bog unless I slip the clutch pretty drastically, which I really don't like doing. It's a fine line for sure.
Still trying to get the hang of how hard to hit the tires with the Calverts, and how fast the front should rise. Since, after this thread, I don't think the issue is tires, if I can get those 2 things straightened out, I think I'll be okay. Still, it comes down to me slipping the clutch just right. If I can limit the front rise, or at least slow it down, it might help the tires recover if I hit it a bit too hard and they do turn a bit.
What shocks are you running Doug. Our cars are obviously nose heavy and I was having traction trouble with the automatic!!
Got a set of shocks from Calvert and havent had a problem since. Between the caltracs and the calvert shocks front and back you should be able to tune it yourself. Shit Im no suspension guy I just made some tweaks here and there. I didnt know what number to put the shocks at so I asked Don Fotti and he told me were to start and it worked so I left them were I started and just played around with preloads. My car did the same thing it would hit hard then release. You can do it Doug your a pretty fart smeller. :) 8)
Joe, this stuff is rocket science, don't ya know? ;D I have QA1 double adjustables in the rear and Calvert 90/10 in the front, but my front rises very quickly, and I think it's peaking too hard. I need to slow down the extension. When I watch good hooking cars, the front is rising as the car starts to move forward. When I watch mine on video, it comes to full rise by the time the car has barely broke the beams.
I've shaved 1.7 seconds off since I started racing it, but according to my mph, I should be able to shave another .3 off of my ET. Having to slip the clutch excessively to keep from killing the tires is killing my 60'.
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on my car it'd smoke the clutch rather than tires if I tried third gear. I use second and about 6000 increasing to 7000rpm as I let off the button. And drive straight to the line. If you need to turn to correct your position you need to back up before going forward again. Or one tire will have the sidewall wrinkled forward and the other backward.
I used the stickshift stocker 9 x 29.5" MT slicks and they worked way better than the various brands of 10.5's I tried.
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I totally agree with Dale! The biggest thing is to not put water where you don't want it! I do 3rd gear burnouts with a 3.05 1st & 5.14s. 2nd seems to drag down to much for how my clutch is set up. A wisp of smoke is perfect as long as I didn't put water in the wells!
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I think this is a great thread but one where there is no consensus since everyone's deal is different. 3rd gear burnouts with a Jerico aren't advised because from what I've been told (by Jerico) is that the 3d gear is on the weakest part of the mainshaft. I'm no transmission expert so can't confirm that. What I do know is what TomP stated that with a Softlok a 3rd will eat the clutch if you don't have enough RPM, base pressure, counterweight or water in the box.
Shocks are another thing I've run the game on. Some have great results with a 90/10 front and basic back. Mostly auto cars or big back tire. I had the Calvert/Rancho rear.. didn't work. Had 90/10 front and switch to the Calverts… didn't work. Single adjustable front and double back and things started to come around. Double adjustable front gained zero but then the tire and clutch adjustment come more into play.
I'm still not comprehending the front end topping argument as Doug mentioned. It's been posted as gospel that you need X amount of front end drop for a car to hook but if you look at a lot of Stock and SS car launches with the wheels in the air it's obvious they have the front end tied down. I have mine somewhat limited but as for topping out.... if you pick the front end off the ground, it's going to top out at some point. You just don't want your front shocks to be the limiter.
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Thanks for the input, Dale, and everyone. I've considered before about cars that lift the front off the ground, which there's no shortage of in Stock and SS as you mentioned. I came to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly, that it depends on how fast it rises. When I watch cars that do it successfully, they seem to rise gradually, so there's a smooth transfer of all that weight (abeit, still fairly quick since things happen fast). On the other hand, my car seems to rise extremely fast, so I wondered if the car was hitting the limit and upsetting the rear? Or I could be imagining that and totally full of it..lol I had not considered if my shocks were acting as the limiter, so I'll check that out and add a limiting device if needed.
When I watch my in-car video, I can watch my body push back as the front rises and the tires grip, but I can also see that force let up (my body moves forward and the nose drops slightly) before the car is in full motion going forward. That has to be upsetting the rear, and I'm thinking if I can slow that down, it should help. Actually, now that I think of it, if I could stiffen the compression on the shock, that should help keep the front end up also.
You can watch what I mean in this video, which I've started just before the launch...
https://youtu.be/7NoKofCDF2Q?t=74
Here's a crop of my launch at Beaver last year. You can see that I've got decent compression and wrinkle on the tire. This is right at the peak of my front end rise.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L899DYdz/FE2019-601.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Stock and SS have their shit together. It takes a lot of tuning to get their cars to leave hard, especially with a small tire. They have their clutch tune up to perfection to allow the tires to get hooked and stay hooked. That and shock adjustments.
I found out about front end rise with my car. That is why mine sits on the bump stops and has 8" of travel before the wheels leave the ground. Though my car is a few feet longer then most other race cars. I also have to control front end rise. I used to have 90/10. Buddy with '70 Mustang runs generic MonroeMatics and can grind the rear bumper off at will. So, knowing that I put a set of generic shocks on the front and the stiffness helped slow the rise and it helped with my 60ft. That is when I bought QA1 SA shocks and that really helped! I should have bought DA because I need some resistance as the car falls back to earth!
Agree, with a big tire, automatic car front end rise isn't as critical. A hard hitting stick car with smaller tires it is more critical. If the motion tops out too quickly the forces applied to the back tires diminishes and once the clutch locks up it will want to spin the tires.
As for what gear and why. I know that any gear in the MIDDLE of the shaft will be the weakest due to deflection. That is likely why Jerico says don't use 3rd gear. A Nash/GF have handcuffs and bearing supports in the middle so gear choice is not as critical. But, like mentioned, I don't like to hit the clutch that hard using a higher gear for a burnout(remember my car is 500# heavier then most also). Some places there is a lack of water and I don't want to have problems so I use 2nd gear and it works fine for my car.
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Echoing the others, with light pressure clutches, I do my burnouts in 2nd gear, as a lack of water can hurt the clutch really easily. And as others have mentioned, on a Jerico, or most production based stick transmissions, 3rd gear is the weakest, as it is the furthest away from the mainshaft bearing, so it can spread away from the cluster. I broke my Jerico DR4 3 times in 20 years, and each time, it was in 3rd gear.One of the main reasons for my switching to a G Force G101A was the fact that the G Force has a "handcuff" that connects the front section of the mainshaft to the cluster, to prevent the shafts from deflecting. Like Larry said, my old Nash 5 speed had a pair of bearings in the center of both the cluster and the mainshaft, for added support. .
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Front end rate of rise has me as confused as Doug. I agree that a slow power wheelie looks great but we do all sorts of stuff to loosen the front end components then don't like the fact the car jerks the front tires out of the beams. Mine doesn't repeat run to run but I'm sure some of my Red lights have been because the front went up before the care moved forward. Another reason to stage as shallow as possible.
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Yeah, it occurred to me while thinking about all the responses here that, while I'm talking about slowing my front end rise, I just invested in roller control arms and roller spring perches. Why? Because of all the talk about making sure your front end is as loose as possible to aid in weight transfer. Apparently, spending money so that you can work backwards is part of racing. Good grief. ::) ::)
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Doug,
A lot of good advice for you and you seem to have a good grasp of what to do. I agree with the front shock change as opposed to a straight 90/10 set up. As far as gear selection for the burnout you do what works for you. I am the same as bobb428. I tried 2nd gear and it will toast my clutch set up. Before I knew about the 3rd gear weakness of the Jerico I had done it for over 10 years.
You’ll get it figured out it just takes time.
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Thanks, John. The biggest difference came from increasing my starting line ratio. That helped tremendously with getting off the line without blowing the tires off. Since I typically only race a couple times a year, it's a slow process for me. I'm hoping to make some progress at the Reunion and the Dragway 42 event before hitting Drag Week again this year.
Thanks to everyone for your replies.
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Yes, having a free working front end is good. BUT, it needs to be controlled also. All the roller stuff helps make it move full travel without any kinks. Really good for road racing. They too use a lot of travel and must control it with shocks. Tomatoe, tomato.
With a much lower powered car, that doesn't need much chassis work to make it go, quick up is fine. Say a 12.0 footbrake car. Jump the nose up to plant the rear tires and let it go. Power is already applied and won't typically overcome the tires.
Now change that to a more powerful stick car with small tires. Everything needs timed properly to get the car to move properly. This is JUST the reason so many racers DON'T want to race a stick car. Too much work. LOL!! Even my friend with 18x33 tires has traction issues sometimes with his 9.0 car. It's good for most tracks, but can also blow the tires off at others. Though he hasn't graduated to changing clutch tune or shocks. He doesn't race enough.
My .02 is since the clutch is hitting so hard, you need more chassis control to help get it moving. If you could lighten the clutch then chassis isn't so critical. I'm literally in the same boat. I'm still trying to get clutch out of my at launch. Especially with the new motor making MORE torque at lower rpm. Ugh.
At Thompson, first race after new motor, car went 1.40 60ft(best ever). Then go to DW42 and it blazes the tires uncontrollably. Go figure. At Thompson I left at 5K or more> DW42 I'm at 3500 and dropping it each pass trying to get a hold of the track to get even close to mid 1.4 60 ft.
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Yeah, it occurred to me while thinking about all the responses here that, while I'm talking about slowing my front end rise, I just invested in roller control arms and roller spring perches. Why? Because of all the talk about making sure your front end is as loose as possible to aid in weight transfer. Apparently, spending money so that you can work backwards is part of racing. Good grief. ::) ::)
Nailed it.... LOL
Track prep always makes me mental. Where I generally run it starts out good then goes away as the day wears on. Track goes away and the clutch gets hot and more aggressive which is not a good combo but then the air also goes away later in the day so one would think a bit less power would be a wash with the setup. I don't have data logging and not interested in big adjustments during the day.
Some of the "hot" racers pull timing out in 1st gear to kill some power then it comes back in down track. Too complicated for my simple mind so I try and make do. Nothing more annoying than having one run hook then the next shortly after blow the tires off. We can't do anything about prep stuck with what the track gives us.
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Here is something a lot of people don't know about yet. These are GoodYear radial slicks intended for a clutch car. I was out at the Vegas Div7 race in November and Markus was out testing them. He was dead hooking every pass running 10.20s.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49471376746_44ec33efe0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2inBJKu)D31I4281 (2) (https://flic.kr/p/2inBJKu) by Bob Smith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142140235@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49471377826_cca86f8828_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2inBK57)DSC_0219 (2) (https://flic.kr/p/2inBK57) by Bob Smith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142140235@N02/), on Flickr
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Any idea what size tire that is and the pressure he was running?
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I guess my cars were never fast enough to worry about pulling the wheels, but I did run in the 10's with my Mach I, and I don't have a single picture of the wheels up off the pavement. I was always taught that pulling the wheels is lost motion, and ultimately is slower the higher it goes. If you watch the cars that run really quick times, many do not even lift the wheels off the pavement. It always amazes me to see a 7 second run where the front wheels stay on the pavement, or only a couple of inches at most. I had coil over shocks, adjustable ladder bars, and could adjust the car to leave level and hard against the line-loc. Joe-JDC