FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Twinibeam66 on November 20, 2019, 10:20:19 AM
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Question i have a 416 build with a RPM intake real close to getting it running, i have a 4 hole super sucker are most of you running a open spacer of any kind under it or are you just using a heat gasket on the intake and then the 4 hole ???? What works best ??
Great forum
Thanks Everybody !!
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Yes, no, maybe, I'll have to check. And that's he truth. Spacers are very, very engine dependent. Of all the varieties, one in particular may really wake up one engine and be a real turd for another similar engine. I have a variety of spacers for this very reason. Pay no attention to marketing. Your engine can't read and is going to do whatever it's going to do regardless of marketing ads.
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Ok thanks for the reply GerryP i have NO experience with a super sucker so was just wanting to see what had worked for everybody else.
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I usually run a 4 hole on everything as a default. The 1" Moroso part is my go-to. I use it to help reduce heat transfer to the carb. Other than that, you won't know one way or the other (4 hole vs open) without a dyno or controlled drags trip runs. I use an aluminum "super sucker" type on the dragster. It runs alcohol, so heat isn't much of an issue. It's blue and I like the look of it - there's your science.
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Thanks Falcon67 i like the way you put that haha
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Question i have a 416 build with a RPM intake real close to getting it running, i have a 4 hole super sucker are most of you running a open spacer of any kind under it or are you just using a heat gasket on the intake and then the 4 hole ???? What works best ??
Great forum
Thanks Everybody !!
I have seen fuel mileage gains stacking the carb over 2".
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I'll add that I run a 2" 4 hole on the Falcon. Power? Heat? Testing? Nah - because with a 1" the scoop is down in the hole of the hood and just looks weird. ;D
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For what its worth, my 428CJ with out of the box Edelbrock heads and RPM intake gained 12 HP on a chassis dyno with a 1" Jomar Powercone spacer.
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For what its worth, my 428CJ with out of the box Edelbrock heads and RPM intake gained 12 HP on a chassis dyno with a 1" Jomar Powercone spacer.
Simply due to straightening out the air/fuel flow I can see why a spacer, the taller the better, may increase hp/torque...but just a tad. As we all know from Jay's extensive intake manifold and spacer tests and as noted above, without dyno or track testing it;s damned hard to pin down actual gains.
Yet, I did finally get the nerve up to cut up my OEM steel hood on my '70 Mach 1 late this Fall, add a 1" spacer and a Boss 429 type scoop and get in some limited driving. Seat-of-the pants told me I did pickup some real power although how much is unknown. Was it the much cooler air admitted from the scoop? Or the 1" 4-hole spacer on a plane intake? Ram air effect at speed? Don't know and don't care as it is faster!
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I ran a test in the way-back between a regular 14" air cleaner under a tear drop vs sealing same air cleaner to the hood using a pan and foam. The change from just the vent and under hood air to sealed air from just the scoop was worth .3 in the 1/8 mile and nearly 2 MPH. The car was running the equivalent of low 12s at that time.
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Here is an actual dyno test with three spacers. Joe-JDC
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/2012/09/29/carburetor-spacer-testing/
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Wow Ctcobra 12 HP thats good i will check that spacer out, also Joe-JDC good article , thanks for the replys. Im thinking i am going to try a 1/2 inch open spacer or one that matches the RPM intake with the 1 inch super sucker on top and start there and see what happens ??? Great forum appreciate all the help everybody
Twinibeam66
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I'm going to go order a 2" sucker now LOL. Nice article, great test.
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I make my own, and actually have dyno tested them against that red one in Ted's dyno test, and beat it by 1 hp every time. Joe-JDC
Here are just a few of the ones we have tried on different combinations.
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I make my own, and actually have dyno tested them against that red one in Ted's dyno test, and beat it by 1 hp every time. Joe-JDC
Here are just a few of the ones we have tried on different combinations.
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Dang you did a good job Joe-JDC they look great ! And i have 1 haha, Falcon67 let me know how the 2 inch super sucker does when you get it, like i need to spend some more money ?? Cant buy enough to keep this 390-416 going haha
Thanks everybody
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As has been said, no two engine combinations are identical and it is difficult to predict what spacer will work best. That said, I have found that spacers typically add hp compared to no spacer. That is in addition the insulating affect between the intake manifold and carburetor. In general, for most street or street/strip applications, I think a 4 hole spacer, as tall as you can fit, works the best. That is, if you are not going to dyno or track test different spacers. I've never tried a Supersucker, but it is tapered 4 hole spacer.
I believe in using up all the available height between the carb and hood with a combination of spacers and air filter elements.
I have a 1" cloverleaf spacer and a 3-1/2x14" air filter on my 428.
JMO,
paulie
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Thanks plovett i will remember that i should have plenty of room , going in 66 Truck
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The 66 can fit a 2 inch spacer with a performer rpm if you have a drop base filter.
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I use an L-88 air cleaner base (Chevy!). Probably the best thing Chevrolet ever made. ;) It drops the filter way down. I don't remember the actual height drop now, but it is a lot.
Anyhoo, with the tall hood of a truck, it isn't nearly as much of an issue.
JMO,
paulie
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I use an L-88 air cleaner base (Chevy!). Probably the best thing Chevrolet ever made. ;) It drops the filter way down. I don't remember the actual height drop now, but it is a lot.
Anyhoo, with the tall hood of a truck, it isn't nearly as much of an issue.
JMO,
paulie
We used to think and were told by a pretty savvy shop long ago that the L-88 drop base was 'good' even for a full race engine.
Wrong!
The ideal best base is one totally flat all across the top edge of the carb and actual track testing proved this with a scooped hood. Yet, I would not hesitate to use one if fitment was the issue with a streeter that needs a stock hood. Interesting too is that today, decades later, many vendors offer different height 14" bases pretty cheap so one can dial up any height one needs.
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I use an L-88 air cleaner base (Chevy!). Probably the best thing Chevrolet ever made. ;) It drops the filter way down. I don't remember the actual height drop now, but it is a lot.
Anyhoo, with the tall hood of a truck, it isn't nearly as much of an issue.
JMO,
paulie
We used to think and were told by a pretty savvy shop long ago that the L-88 drop base was 'good' even for a full race engine.
Wrong!
The ideal best base is one totally flat all across the top edge of the carb and actual track testing proved this with a scooped hood. Yet, I would not hesitate to use one if fitment was the issue wiht a stretetr or even a racer that needs a stock hood. Interesting too is that today, decades later, many vendors offer different height 14" bases pretty cheap so one can dial up any height one needs.
I like a flat base with a tall filter. Of course you can't always get there, but minimal drop is best for power and metering
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Thanks Drew Pojedinec thats good to know, thanks for the help everybody
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Anyhoo, with the tall hood of a truck, it isn't nearly as much of an issue.
paulie
My experience with trucks isn't the hood, it is the engine set back far enough to interfere with the firewall/hood interface/lip. At least with a full size 14inch filter. Totally dependent on the filter housing.
Being that my trucks have always been daily drivers, I view heat insulation of the carb as being more important than airfilter size/flow as I'm typically motoring along at 2200rpms.
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I use an L-88 air cleaner base (Chevy!). Probably the best thing Chevrolet ever made. ;) It drops the filter way down. I don't remember the actual height drop now, but it is a lot.
Anyhoo, with the tall hood of a truck, it isn't nearly as much of an issue.
JMO,
paulie
We used to think and were told by a pretty savvy shop long ago that the L-88 drop base was 'good' even for a full race engine.
Wrong!
The ideal best base is one totally flat all across the top edge of the carb and actual track testing proved this with a scooped hood. Yet, I would not hesitate to use one if fitment was the issue wiht a stretetr or even a racer that needs a stock hood. Interesting too is that today, decades later, many vendors offer different height 14" bases pretty cheap so one can dial up any height one needs.
I like a flat base with a tall filter. Of course you can't always get there, but minimal drop is best for power and metering
Sure. If you have the space, then all that makes sense. :)
A '67 Cougar with a 428 and no scoop. doesn't have the space to make the ideal induction tract. I'd rather have a drop base with a 4" filter than a flat base with a 2" filter. I have experimented with different base, spacer, and filter combos.
JMO,
paulie
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Ok Thanks Drew Pojedinec my breather is a Ford Motorsports im thinking its 12 inches but might be 14. But anyway i will check that really appreciate it.
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Joe, without a dyno test could you predict which of your spacers shown or not shown would yield a gain on a 427 low riser Comp 282S, modified plenum & port matched street master, iron heads bigger valves, 10.5 compression, efi, shorty cast headers. Quite a list I know.
Mike.
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You would probably do well to use either an open or tapered spacer, Mike. The reason being that the intake you're using has a pretty small plenum and the two mentioned spacers will add plenum volume. A regular open spacer is cheaper than the tapered spacer, so I would try that one first.
A four-hole spacer is cheap enough that you could also pick one of those up. Again, spacers seem oblivious to expertise and can surprise you.
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A lot of what folks experience in increased horsepower, is not the design of the spacer so much as the added plenum area and that allows the engine to draw from a larger area. Because of the larger area, the carb signal is increased, and everything starts working better, making more horsepower. I have actually increased spacer height to 4.00" on a 600 hp engine, and it kept increasing to that point. Any spacer that increases the velocity directly under the venturi will change the torque curve some, and should help with horsepower. On a dual plane intake, the divider is a turbulence inducer with an open spacer, and anything you can do to reduce that with a spacer will help, and increasing the height above the divider will aid higher rpm horsepower. Cutting down the divider does not always help, and causes loss of low rpm torque. In a race environment where low rpm is not needed, the cut down divider MAY help with horsepower production, but in my dyno testing, it causes a difficult tuning issue in most cases. As for what spacer to use, I like a super sucker in most cases, whether 1" or 2", they work. On the Streetmaster, a lot depends on what has been done to the plenum, and if it has been gasket matched. The better the manifold works, the less spacer needed. Joe-JDC
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A lot of what folks experience in increased horsepower, is not the design of the spacer so much as the added plenum area and that allows the engine to draw from a larger area. Because of the larger area, the carb signal is increased, and everything starts working better, making more horsepower. I have actually increased spacer height to 4.00" on a 600 hp engine, and it kept increasing to that point.
Which is one reason why tunnel rams work so good at producing power, and why everyone should have them on their engines. ;D
It's well proven that directing airflow into the carb helps all along the curve. A drop base certainly doesn't help in that area, but sometimes you just don't have a choice. And any time you can get outside air into the engine, rather than super-heated engine compartment air, is going to produce noticeable effects. Anyone who notices how much better their car runs on a cool day is seeing that effect.