FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: rockhouse66 on December 28, 2012, 08:13:02 AM
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I am planning a street 428 stroker build. I intended to use the Scat 4.25" crank but a recent conversation with my engine machinist revealed he strongly prefers to use Eagle. On the FE Forum, Scat is great and Eagle is junk. I have an Eagle stroker kit in my SBF with no issues, so I know Eagle isn't "junk", but is there enough difference to worry about? Is this the item I should argue with him about or save that for some other component? Is it true that both are cast the same place but Scat is finish machiined in US and Eagle is not? (my engine guy seems to think the Eagle stuff is done here, and he can actually communicate with someone at Eagle about what he wants). He will probably also prefer the Eagle rods BTW.
I would value input from this Forum.
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IMHO I have used both steel cast cranks over 7000 RPM and as long as either I'd prepped properly both are good castings. It is more the application that determines what crank is better. I would not use a cast iron crank for a high performance engine for example, it will not last.
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I have never used an Eagle, but have used 5 SCAT 4.25s without failure.
If you search around the net, especially Club Cobra, you will see broken Eagles, but not broken SCATs
My local machinist said the same thing as yours, but this last 445 I went SCAT anyway. I would go SCAT for cast or RPM for forged, and its best to get it from one of the long standing FE guys.
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The truth is that the "cast steel" cranks promoted by Scat and others are really just cast nodular iron. However, it is the same kind of nodular iron used by Ford in their cast iron cranks, such as the 428CJ crank, so it is a good material. Many of us have run these cranks to 7000 RPM with no issues. "Cast Steel" is just a marketing term to make you feel better about the product.
I personally prefer the Scat cranks because they seem to come in with better quality machine work than the Eagle stuff. I bought one Eagle crank and it needed some serious touch-up machining to be right; in fact I think I had to go 10/10 with it if I recall correctly. But I haven't had trouble with either brand in terms of durability.
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I was under the impression that the cast steel is a high nickle part?
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Jim, I have an Eagle crank and H-beams in my 347 SBF. The engine has been in the car for 7 years with no issues. Mainly street use in my case...
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Jim, I have an Eagle crank and H-beams in my 347 SBF. The engine has been in the car for 7 years with no issues. Mainly street use in my case...
I did have one small issue with the Eagle crank in my SBF stroker. One journal was tapered a little (more clearance on one end than the other), so I guess you could say the machining was a little sloppy. I have also been running it for about 3 years with no issues.
Does anyone know for sure if Eagle stuff is machined in the US or ??
So far, it sounds like I should insist on the Scat crank for my project.
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I had to do some thinking to remember but cast steel is a high carbon alloy nodular iron is pure iron and no alloy. If you grind iron it does not spark steel does.
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I have done the some as jay. The scat cast fe cranks look great just balance and go but the Eagle cast fe crank was really bad had to remachine the crank and Eagle needed more heavy metal to balance. So more money in the Eagle and the casting just did not look as good as the Scat
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The Scat seams to lay down easier on the balancer over the Eagle. I bought a Cleveland Scat stroker (.030 over 408CI) kit. I had it balanced to see how close it was to the sheet that Scat sent me from the factory.... It was darn close! They make a great product.
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Jim, I have an Eagle crank and H-beams in my 347 SBF. The engine has been in the car for 7 years with no issues. Mainly street use in my case...
I did have one small issue with the Eagle crank in my SBF stroker. One journal was tapered a little (more clearance on one end than the other), so I guess you could say the machining was a little sloppy. I have also been running it for about 3 years with no issues.
Does anyone know for sure if Eagle stuff is machined in the US or ??
So far, it sounds like I should insist on the Scat crank for my project.
I bought a set of Eagle H beam rods about two years ago and the box had "made in China" on it. But they have been tough. Over reved past 8000 rpm several times.
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All of it is made in china Chicago has not one foundry left.
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IMHO I have used both steel cast cranks over 7000 RPM and as long as either I'd prepped properly both are good castings. It is more the application that determines what crank is better. I would not use a cast iron crank for a high performance engine for example, it will not last.
Sorry, gotta call BS on that last statement. I have ran nothing but factory Ford 428 cast cranks in my Fairmont for over 20 years with no failures. I have used the same, 45 year old 1U 428 crank in 3 different 428s in the last 14 years, one block split the main bearing webbing, one split 2 cylinder walls, and the 3rd kicked out a rod thru the block, but the crank is still good, and waiting for another build. Also the 454 cube 427 currently in the Fairmont also has a plain old 428 cast crank in it, as does DalePs 9.7 ET 67 Mustang. Dales crank has also been in there for many years.
As for Eagle stuff, I know a few FE racers who have had Eagle rods break. As much as I hate to admit it, the 331 cube SB Ford in my 85 Mustang has an Eagle crank and rods. The first crank ate up its thrust surface after 2 years, opening the thrust clearance to .050"! So far the 2nd crank seems to be OK. I`ve never had any thrust wear issues with any of my factory Amercan made Ford cranks. Although he always uses Crower rods in his own Chevy race engines, my engine machinest does use a lot of Scat stuff for customers with tighter budgets. He says the Scat stuff is fairly decent, but he doesn`t care a lot for Eagle or RPM stuff.
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Yep, and I've been told that Super Stock racers run their 428CJ cranks to 8500+ RPM. Nothing wrong with cast iron cranks as long as they are the good cast nodular iron, like Ford used and the Scat and Eagle cranks use.
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Here's my experience. I have one scat crank and one eagle crank. The eagle is now a two piece design and cost me a motor. I will not buy another eagle product as long as I live. If I were you I would give Blair Patrick a call and follow his lead. Just my .02
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The eagle cranks I have used were for stock application builds so they held up for me. Anything beyond that you are probably better off with the Scat. I have had big money custom forged cranks from Kenne Bell before for my Buick engines but the block failed first so I guess it comes down to what you are doing with it. Just my two cents worth,well maybe one with inflation LOL
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I have a rpm forged 4340 steel crank with 4.250 stroke going in my 390 stroker.
Went with scat rods.
I no it took at lot of Malory to balance, hopping its up to the task?
I expect my ford block to surrender first if the hp gets to high.
It's only a 2 bolt main block but I have fitted a main cap girdle.
I was reluctant to go past the scat cast as by all accounts it's a great crank at a good price.
Time will tell..