FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Member Projects => Topic started by: Barry_R on September 26, 2019, 05:38:19 AM
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I saw - and responded - JDC's post regarding his Y block.
Thought I should put something similar up for my entry as well
Rules mandate a factory combination with non-performance iron heads and max of .600 lift
Mine is a 410 Mercury engine
Bore at 4.100 (.050 over), stroke at 3.980, displacement ends up around 420 cid
Heads are C6AE-R castings that JDC initially ported for another customer. That project went another direction and I acquired and finished them for this engine.
Intake is a matching JDC ported Holley Street Dominator which seems to like as many spacers stacked on top of each other as rules will allow.
Compression is a rules limited 10.5:1
Cam is a rules limited .598/.596 lift which actually measures in the .574 range as installed.
Carb will be one of the five or six string in the test cell - they are all within a couple points of each other.
Oil pan is a C8AX factory piece
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With 105:1 compression, I’d guess about 4000 hp.
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Might need these
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505 tq, 555 hp Good luck! Joe-JDC
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Wow, 105:1! Is that too high for a turbo? ;D ;D
All kidding aside, are we guessing peak numbers or average numbers? And if average, across what powerband? Can't remember how Engine Masters is doing it these days...
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Everyone else is bringing Pontiacs and Y blocks, Barry is going straight to diesel.
Least you'll win the average torque section.
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My guess was real close to Joe's. I'll change it around a bit just to be different. 500tq, 560hp.
All kidding aside, are we guessing peak numbers or average numbers? And if average, across what powerband? Can't remember how Engine Masters is doing it these days...
My understanding is they are scoring a 3000rpm window of your choice anywhere between 3200 and 7200rpm. Average torque + average horsepower, then divided by engine size. For this I was guessing at peak numbers though.
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Everyone else is bringing Pontiacs and Y blocks, Barry is going straight to diesel.
Least you'll win the average torque section.
I was counting on a bunch of people bringing 396's and 427's. Barry/Joe, do you guys know all the entries at this point?
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You forget one decimal point at 5AM and everybody beats you up.....
Kaase is bringing a 427 Chevy
The rest of us are going for the glory of the deal.
I know of a Pontiac, a 289, and a 327 Chevy, and of course a Y block.
Blair also has an FE entry. I will let him elaborate if he so desires. The required cast iron heads and OEM bore/stroke combinations are right in his wheelhouse given his NHRA stock and Super Stock experience. I would expect him to do extremely well.
You choose a 3000 wide RPM band anywhere between 3500 and 7000. I cant really afford to work this deal as hard as I have in the past, but can tell you that the math favors the highest possible RPM...and the pucker factor is high with the parts I am using.
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478 hp - 505 tq
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You forget one decimal point at 5AM and everybody beats you up.....
The decimal police NEVER sleep.
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I’ll say 541 HP. Torque 507
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Really just a guess without all the specs, but I am guessing spinning it to meet the rules advantage
545 HP / 530 TQ
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I am getting it ready to pack up - - worked on this thing as an after hours deal using a collection of stuff that has been parked around the shop, and some horse trading. It will be a for sale item after the show, with the likely exception of a few "borrowed parts" - the intake still belongs to JDC, the distributor belongs to my buddy Tim, the carb and one of the spacers belong to Randy Malik...not sure that any of them can be talked or bribed out of their personal stuff.
Ends up as an interesting if not super competitive engine. I don't think I have ever tried to build a high output iron head 410 - never had a reason to I suppose. The folks who regularly build NHRA stock and super stock engines will definitely be bringing stronger entries with this rules package. Experience counts for a lot. This would still probably make for a pretty good running Colony Park or Monterrey - ice cream won't melt on the way home from the store - no vacuum for the brakes though. The inexpensive Hooker pickup truck headers outperformed my dyno headers once I whacked the 2.5" reducer from the end of the collector.
I will provide data at peak from my dyno "before" the event, and from their dyno "after" just for comparison sake. I am providing corrected peak numbers - I can get to the uncorrected data and the correction factors later if I get the chance. In legal trim the peak observed corrected horsepower came in at 538.7 @ 6400 RPM. Peak corrected torque came in at 519.4 at 4800 RPM. Was over 500 TQ by 4000 and stayed above to 5400-5500. These peak scores were on different pulls, but they were really close for the last three runs tonight with the computed contest scores being within a couple points of each other. I did run it past 7000 RPM "just to see" and it did just fine - but the scores did not improve and the sweet spot for this one seems to be 3800-6800 RPM.
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Now that the contest has ended I need to sell this engine - have to pay some bills - this info will be cross posted with some edit as a classified ad. Many of these parts were already in my shop from past projects. With this years rules we decided to put them together as an assembly for the challenge.
This package consistently delivered over 530 horsepower both at home and at the EMC event. One pull at home had a 538HP number, but it frequently hit 533 in both locations. Best torque was around 520. Power was around 526 at 5500 RPM and remained above that level beyond 6600 - - - really flat power band. We usually ran it to 6800 for scoring, but did go beyond 7000 once just to see. What I found amazing was that my best run dyno averages at home were 484 for power and between 483 and 485 for torque on several pulls. At EMC the best pull gave us 484 for HP and 484 for TQ - - virtually an exact duplicate of the home numbers and verification of the comparative dynos data output.
Specifics...
Block is a 390. It is bore to 4.100 and has about two inches of hard block - - still quite a ways below the water pump holes and certainly still usable as a street piece. Has a small (under a 1/2 inch) spot of weld on one deck next to the lifter valley. We saw a suspicious looking area there and decided to stick a little bit of weld on as insurance. There are perhaps three dozen pulls on the engine with no sign of any problems at all.
Crank is a 428 factory item ground 10-10
Rods are Scat H beams
Pistons are custom Race-tec flat tops with 10.47:1 compression, lateral gas ports and a 1.0-1.0-2.0mm Mahle ring pack
Balanced internally
Camshaft is a Bullet roller with just under .600 lift per specifications - measured .574 at the valve actual once assembled.
Damper is a Romac
Timing cover and chain are FE Power items
Oil pan is a Ford factory C8AX performance piece from 1968 - oil pressure remained at 62 at 6800 - and it performed great
Rockers are Harland Sharp bushing style with ARP mounting studs
Heads are C6AE-R castings, ported by Joe Craine. Valves are Rev 2.150 and 1.650 with 11/32 stem. Springs are Comp conical solid roller cam parts with titanium retainers. Revved beyond 7000 RPM many times with no sign of distress.
Valve covers are really nice polished Blue Thunder competition style parts.
The ported Holley Street Dominator intake that we ran belongs to Joe Craine and has already been removed for return to him. The distributor we used was a Ford duraspark conversion that belongs to Tim Young and has also been removed for return to him. Same thing for the vintage carburetor, which has already been given back to Randy Malik and Adney Brown.
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Posted in the wrong location - sorry