FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: BigBlueOvalFan on July 27, 2019, 09:03:55 PM
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Anyone have luck installing the Super Comps (for a 4spd) on the engine first while it's out of the car (both sides) before installing the engine in a 67 Mustang ? My cross-member, drag link, tie rods, idler arm are not installed yet so it gives me a little more room to work with. My steering box is not installed but I think I may do that prior as it looks difficult to perform after the engine with headers are installed. I'll install my clutch and bell housing but leave the trans off for the install. Any pro tips would be greatly appreciated.
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The last time I had anything to do with Super Comps was when we installed a prototype set on one of the first dozen Cobra Jet cars. I don't remember all the details now, but there was no way to install them first and have the package lower into the engine compartment. As I remember, we put the driver's side on, lowered the engine in and then with the driver's side mount loose, and the passenger mount entirely removed, we rocked the engine over to get the other side into the available space. Then install one mount and tighten the other. Amended to add: The prototype headers we used had 2.25 tubes. Probably too big, but that was what we were offered. We painted them with fluorescent orange header paint.
On Brother Lon's '67/427 TP car we removed the top bar from the radiator support and modified it so it could be replaced afterwards. We were using cross-under header pipes from 'Bondo' Larson You don't have to get the engine up nearly as high. It's best to install engine and trans all together.
KS
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I will post pics Tomorrow. If they are 6114, bolt them on and swing them in, just Have to make sure you have the bellhousing on and you can even do it with the transmission. 20 minutes max, trans and all
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Here is a link to pics of my 70, 67-70 the same
https://www.fordfe.com/viewtopic.php?f=74182&t=109012&p=1013077&hilit=6114+hookers#p1013077
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The last time I had anything to do with Super Comps was when we installed a prototype set on one of the first dozen Cobra Jet cars. I don't remember all the details now, but there was no way to install them first and have the package lower into the engine compartment. As I remember, we put the driver's side on, lowered the engine in and then with the driver's side mount loose, and the passenger mount entirely removed, we rocked the engine over to get the other side into the available space. Then install one mount and tighten the other.
On Brother Lon's '67/427 TP car we removed the top bar from the radiator support and modified it so it could be replaced afterwards. You don't have to get the engine up nearly as high. It's best to install engine and trans all together.
KS
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.
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Here is a link to pics of my 70, 67-70 the same
https://www.fordfe.com/viewtopic.php?f=74182&t=109012&p=1013077&hilit=6114+hookers#p1013077
Thanks a bunch for the pics, that really helps. I was hoping this could be done like this, it's so much easier to get a good seal on them and bolt them up while out of the car.
Does the factory steering box need to be out of the car ?
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You CAN NOT install 6114 Hookers on the engine in a 1967 FE car. I guarantee you. I have had mine in and out three times in the last nine months. Do your heads have the 16 bolt pattern?
I will be glad to give you the easy way to do it, especially if your engine compartment is freshly painted and your headers are coated.
-Keith
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I'd think if you can do it on a '70 BB car which has the shock tower reinforcements then you can do it on a '67. Everything on a 67-70 Mustang/Cougar is same from the shock towers to the firewall.
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If you tell me you got long tube Hookers on I don't believe you. You might have got one on, but not with both. I tried with one side ( RH). Yes on the tri-y or block huggers and shorties. Not with long tube Hookers. If you own one of the specialty tilters, perhaps. The flanges do NOT clear the firewall and you're asking to do damage. We've had this conversation before. I also have reinforcements installed on my '67.
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If you checked out his link I do not think the pictures lie. I've got the hooker 6114's and can confirm it can be done. It just is not something I'd recommend for the novice. If you note the back of the car is jacked way up. You need a lot of angle. Yes I have a tilter. Makes life easier.
From the factory 1967's did not have the wrap around reinforcement plates on the shock towers. Now you or someone may have added them....
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Yes, I bought the kit that came out a few years ago. The reinforcements are very similar to the mid-68 on units and I also had the plate on the outside bottom added. The car also has the Arning drop. Kind of problematic with the 6114 headers.
So you tilt the engine at almost 90 degrees to clear the tower?
-Keith
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Keith it will work, although you can take the long route and bolt the headers in the car. However, I pity the guy who does that, those bolts are much easier with a ratchet and a couple different wrenches on the floor
You can do it for all FE years and I have. The trick is, you do the following
1 - Turn the wheel to the right to move the pitman arm to the left, steering box in
2 - Unbolt the idler arm and let the tie rod rest, take out the crossmember behind the motor mounts
3 - Jack up the back of the car, front can sit on the ground
4 - Take the assembled engine, tranny and headers, put at a steep angle and slide it in. Areas to be careful for. 1 - Brake line that travels across the cowl, 2 - frame rails. In both cases, a blanket helps
5 - When you get close, put a floor jack under the tranny to level the assembly
20 minutes from hook to sitting in there, one guy, no issues. That car also had the Shelby drop but it does have stock style springs (not lowered)
The funny thing is, I didn't believe it either, but those pics include a TKO-600 with a stub shifter AND a scatter shield, both slightly bigger than a stock setup. Have done it to 67-70, same design, same easy....
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I gather you guys are using that single lever leveling device? Considering the paint job on the car and the inside the engine compartment I will bolt them on afterwards. It's really not that bad. I don't use the two under the center pipes. I have started using the new Remflex graphite header gaskets. They're fantastic and they don't leak! They're about 1/4" thick and compress to about 1/8. I can bolt the headers up in about 30 minutes. Practice makes perfect ( GRRRR!!)
67xr7cat My apologies. I tried to get mine in because I didn't want to deal with the starter and the headers. I couldn't keep it off the towers or the firewall. It's still risky with anything that has been restored well.
I wish you were local. I'd volunteer you to come help me next weekend.! lol
-Keith
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With 6114’s I’ve done it several times,trans and all. I put towels on the shock towers,firewall and radiator support. The last 4 times with a carb plate ,front hole. No problems at all. With a hood scoop cut out you don’t even have to remove the hood.
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I gather you guys are using that single lever leveling device? Considering the paint job on the car and the inside the engine compartment I will bolt them on afterwards. It's really not that bad. I don't use the two under the center pipes. I have started using the new Remflex graphite header gaskets. They're fantastic and they don't leak! They're about 1/4" thick and compress to about 1/8. I can bolt the headers up in about 30 minutes. Practice makes perfect ( GRRRR!!)
67xr7cat My apologies. I tried to get mine in because I didn't want to deal with the starter and the headers. I couldn't keep it off the towers or the firewall. It's still risky with anything that has been restored well.
I wish you were local. I'd volunteer you to come help me next weekend.! lol
-Keith
Did you look at my link? I did it that one with a chain.....nothing fancy, no help, no scratches and took nearly no time.
Intake is off on mine in that picture, but only because I got bit with bad Crane rockers when they came out (no longer offered) and removed everything while I waited for Ersons and wanted clean access for pushrod length measuring. Just as easy with the intake on.
I have done it both ways, but it's easier all at once if you take your time.
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Is that your pictures of your install, Ross? If so, I want to see a picture of the engine hoist. That may be why I couldn't do it. It looks as if the boom is much longer than the one I have.
-Keith
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Well, just to clear the air you absolutely can install an FE with Hooker Headers and the trans. It takes a LOT of angle to get it in, and the ass off the car needs to be up in the air. I wrapped the collectors with towels and covered the shock towers and core support with packing blankets.
Getting it in as one piece saved me at least three hours of hard work.
It didn't seem possible, but it is. I owe everyone who I called out an apology.
-Keith
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Well, just to clear the air you absolutely can install an FE with Hooker Headers and the trans. It takes a LOT of angle to get it in, and the ass off the car needs to be up in the air. I wrapped the collectors with towels and covered the shock towers and core support with packing blankets.
Getting it in as one piece saved me at least three hours of hard work.
It didn't seem possible, but it is. I owe everyone who I called out an apology.
-Keith
There's a lot of experience in this forum. Heck, the origins of the FE forums goes back nearly 20 years, and many of us have been around since it started. And it's not uncommon for members here to have been doing this stuff for 40, 50 or even 60+ years. A little humbleness goes a long way.
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Yes Ross is the one that told me it could be done and I have a 67. Not one scratch on the towers and it couldnt have taken to much longer than 20 minutes and that was being careful. And I dont have a lift plate just used a chain. Cant remember if i had my lowriser duel quad manifold on?.
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Well, many of us have been doing mechanical work and well for 30 plus years. Sometimes it's experience with particular things that are helpful. I did try and install it with one header on it. It's all about angles and the hoist in use. The pictures Ross provided were very helpful. Much of my concern was with damaging a 15,000 paint job.
I don't know everything and I attempt be helpful as well. I would assume that's what we're all here for. Common interest. Like I've stated on multiple occasions. This will likely die post those in my age group go.
The hostility on the other forum has made it a place to avoid.
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Put the cross shaft mount on the engine then the frame side after you put the shaft in this is how i do it its a good time to make sure the bolts go in easy.
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When you say cross shaft I presume you're referencing the equalizer bar for the clutch? I leave the block side of the pivot on the block. The frame rail side is easy to get to when the power booster is out of the car. It took me about 30 minutes.
It's TIGHT when it sits down in the saddles.
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I put those headers on my 67 GTA fastback way back when I was 18... all 14 bolts in. I wish i'd known then it could have been done easier. I think I spent a couple days just bolting them up. When I went to the #6375 headers it seems so simple, I had those in within a half hour.
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I did mine like you did, Ross. Chain and carb plates on both four barrels. The issue was the hoist was short-armed in comparison with your unit.
I got it done and the only issue I has was that I needed a little more angle and I just didn't have the height. We lifted it up over the core support. The Cobra deep sump pan didn't want to clear.
I hope I never have to pull it out again!
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Well, just to clear the air you absolutely can install an FE with Hooker Headers and the trans. It takes a LOT of angle to get it in, and the ass off the car needs to be up in the air. I wrapped the collectors with towels and covered the shock towers and core support with packing blankets.
Getting it in as one piece saved me at least three hours of hard work.
It didn't seem possible, but it is. I owe everyone who I called out an apology.
-Keith
See an "idiot" can be of use now and them... lol